I see Palin as Dan Quayle in 1988. Can Palin spell potato correctly? And he never made a big political run after they lost in '92. hopefully Palin will do the same.
Quote:/font1h,121b,121 /font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121b, 21b, 21Whoever decided Palin shouldn't give a speech deserves a Congressional medal of honor. She was standing so close to McCain and I couldn't stop thinking, "Oh god, she's not going to speak, is she?" b, 21b, 21h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121From Newsweek: "Palin asked to speak along with McCain at his Arizona concession speech Tuesday night, but campaign strategist Steve Schmidt vetoed the request." b, 21b, 21h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121That's why I said it. I saw someone mention it above. Although I didn't catch dude's name. Bravo, Steve Schmidt. One of the most sound strategies of the whole campaign.
Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121I agree that his speech was respectful, but my question is...b,121b,121would a working politician really give any other kind of speech?b, 21b, 21h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121There are concession speeches and there are concession speeches. b, 21b, 21Compare McCain's concession speech with Hillary Clinton's after the primaries were done. She spent more time focused on what she accomplished in her losing effort. It was "gracious" in a politically demanded way but compare that with McCain and talking about Booker T going to the White House for dinner. McCain (or his speechwriter but whatever) recognized, acknowledged and genuinely seemed to embrace the historic moment for what it was. McCain put his campaign through the prism of what was good for America and while his whole "Country First" motto might seem incredibly facile (which it kind of is), to me, his speech last night was actually walking-the-walk. b,121b,121It's not like I expected him to say, "let's keep the fight on, f*ck Obama!" but McCain seemed humble and sincere and those were qualities really lacking from his campaign trail.b,121b,121I also think folks give Palin 1) way too much credit for McCain's loss and 2) way too much shit. She deserves to get clowned - richly - but ultimately, she was even more victimized by this whole process than McCain was. The main diff though is that Palin's young enough and green enough that her political future is less certain. McCain will likely fade away like Bob Dole (hopefully sans E.D. commercials). But while I have no love for Palin and would NEVER want to see her anywhere near a national ticket again, McCain and his people mismanaged almost every part of her campaign, beginning with her selection to begin with. Clearly, she should never been chosen to begin with; she wasn't ready for prime time but I can't fault her for taking the call. She fucked up on her own but it's sort of like blaming a Little Leaguer for f*cking up in a MLB game - the coach deserves even more of the blame for even putting her in the game to start with). b,121b,121And ultimately, Palin dragged down the ticket - no question - but the single biggest thing that destroyed McCain's candidacy (besides himself) was the economy. If things were going swimmingly, I could easily imagine that McCain/Palin would have pulled far closer than they did or even won, despite all her failings. b, 21b, 21h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121Hey, the thing that made me wonder WTF with Mccain and the Conservative party is people know Mccain is more of a Moderate. My girlfriends mother voted for Mccain but even she knew he didn't stand a chance.
I feel for the man, he lost severely, and he made mistakes by not operating from his true self and stooping low at times and people could smell the instability in him. A real leader doesn't do that. Like all of us he needs to learn from his mistakes and he has a lot to think about.
PALIN.
I feel for the man[/b]
Not me, not for a second and in no way. Do you feel for the coach of a losing Super Bowl team? If you do, I guess I feel for you. That's the game, someone's gotta win, someone's gotta lose. As we will read in the days and weeks to come, we will see just how BADLY McCain lost this campaign and seriously deserved to lose. He has more money than he could ever spend and has seen highs and lows that even fewer people can experience in a lifetime. Dude has been blessed, had the wind at his back more than most. So I don't waste one second of sympathy on him, he is simply no longer an issue. At this stage, he should RETIRE. Get out of people's way.
I feel you and I agree. It's part of my personality to pause and see both sides before I get carried away with glee, it's my reflective nature, and it stems from experiencing death and loss throughout my life, there's always something to be learned from winning and from losing. And I do the same at the superbowl. But it is time for the winning team to take it home.
I hear you. McCain did the only thing he could do and still be a US Senator, and that was to attempt to save face by being dignified and delivering a positive parting message. But it's not as though he suffered, it's not as though he doesn't benefit from this tremendously, and it's nothing to feel for.
As a conservative on this board (more rare than a unicorn), I think a lot of strutters are off base on the direction this party will take. The idea that they will attempt to be more centrist is not even plausible. McCain was never truly accepted by the conservatives, and using a gambling term, the Republicans will run to the smell. They will start running candidates who are much more conservative and right leaning and move away from centrist candidates. The McCain ideology of reaching across the aisle will be seen by conservatives as compromising your core beliefs. I find myself indifferent in regards to Sarah Palin, but to think she will just dissappear is somewhat unlikely. She has gotten a taste of the political big leagues and has fairly strong base in the religious conservatives. She will be a player in the future, I just don't know at what level.
so somebody wrote a nice speech for mccain to try and make him look less like the lying piece of terd that he is - and now all is forgiven? gtfohwtbs. palin is a disgrace of a human too.
you people have a short term memory. mccain/palin deliberately chose to campaign on lies, xenephobia and racism . and please show me a speech over the past 2 months that was about his ideas and not fear and false accusations about obama. he duped the lower educated middle class into thinking that they were joe the plumber, a fictional character that fictionally benefited under a mccain presidency. his rallies were a showcase for everything that is wrong with america.
f*ck mccain and his concession speech.
man it's a great day today, so i'll be nice. No one is excusing or forgetting, quite the opposite. That's the whole reason why this thread is growing because people are mindfull of the bullshit and are surprised by the McCain we saw. If we did forget the past few months this thread would be different. So read up on your read-ups.
thanks for being nice. i don't think i'm confused and i'm not sure what is surprising about a politician giving a complimentary concession speech that was written for him. bush said some kind words last night, as did the pundits on fox news including karl rove. where is his thread...
I thought McCain gave a great speech. His mentioning of Booker T and T. Roosevelt was a great bit. I also liked how he said that Obama was now going to be "HIS" president.
As for the booing, who f*cking cares. I'm almost positive that when Kerry gave his concession speech Democrats in the crowd booed when Bush was mentioned. Big deal.
As for Palin, a Republican campaign specialist this morning on NPR said she has to really change her appeal if she wants to be a national politician. He said that exit polls said 60% of people thought she was unqualified for the job. Not only that, she only appealed to the religious Right even within the Republican Party itself. I think she's the next Dan Quayle. Everyone had great plans for him, and he turned out to be a total dud and faded away.
I thought McCain gave a great speech. His mentioning of Booker T and T. Roosevelt was a great bit. I also liked how he said that Obama was now going to be "HIS" president.
As for the booing, who f*cking cares. I'm almost positive that when Kerry gave his concession speech Democrats in the crowd booed when Bush was mentioned. Big deal.
As for Palin, a Republican campaign specialist this morning on NPR said she has to really change her appeal if she wants to be a national politician. He said that exit polls said 60% of people thought she was unqualified for the job. Not only that, she only appealed to the religious Right even within the Republican Party itself. I think she's the next Dan Quayle. Everyone had great plans for him, and he turned out to be a total dud and faded away.
But if the Religious Right ever start a porn magazine I nominate Sarah as their first centerfold.
As a conservative on this board (more rare than a unicorn), I think a lot of strutters are off base on the direction this party will take. The idea that they will attempt to be more centrist is not even plausible. McCain was never truly accepted by the conservatives, and using a gambling term, the Republicans will run to the smell. They will start running candidates who are much more conservative and right leaning and move away from centrist candidates. The McCain ideology of reaching across the aisle will be seen by conservatives as compromising your core beliefs. I find myself indifferent in regards to Sarah Palin, but to think she will just dissappear is somewhat unlikely. She has gotten a taste of the political big leagues and has fairly strong base in the religious conservatives. She will be a player in the future, I just don't know at what level.
With the Republican base shrinking and the Democratic base expanding, this is a losing strategy.
{{SNIP}} I hear you. McCain did the only thing he could do and still be a US Senator, and that was to attempt to save face by being dignified and delivering a positive parting message. But it's not as though he suffered, it's not as though he doesn't benefit from this tremendously, and it's nothing to feel for.
I agree with ya!
Just you watch, McCain is going to pull a Jimmy Swaggart and asked to be forgiven all his sins of the presidential campaign (I don't think he will use the flood of tears though).
Who will be his audience, the press. The same buddy, buddy press who turned on him when Steve Schmidt took over the campaign and kicked them out of the Straight Talk Express. McCain has a history of doing nasty things in the name of political expediency and then seeking forgiveness after the fact. See his "regret" on the Confederate Battle Flag issue from the 2000 campaign.
So, do I have sympathy for McCain. No. He may have taken his lumps like a man but I won't forget the kind of campaign he ran.
I don't think Palin was a pawn at all. I think she might have even been playing McCain.
Indeed, I don't think she gave a shit about McCain, she was just riding his ass to gain a spot in the public eye. Before this campaign ... Sarah who? No one know who the F*ck she was nor did they care and I wish it were that way again. I'm sure McCain does too. I just got a feeling throughout the campaign that he wished she wasn't there and only acted like he liked her to appease his campaign managers.
Unfortunately, now there's a part of me that is just imagining her being whisked away to some GOP presidential boot camp to prepare her for 2012. As much as she made her and her party look like total asses, the attention she gained from low intelligence America was huge and I can totally picture them trying to use that again.
I mean, all those fucks at the McCain gathering started chanting Sar-ah, Sar-ah. And of course McCain didn't acknowledge them - as he shouldn't have. They both crashed and burned and they deserved it. I won't say that I hate McCain cause I know, somewhere, he is not all evil - but I do HATE Palin with a passion; straight up EVIL.
Really, when you break it down, all she is is a vice-presidential version of joe the plumber. Except, nothing has come out yet about joe the plumber shooting moose from a helicopter.
As a conservative on this board (more rare than a unicorn), I think a lot of strutters are off base on the direction this party will take. The idea that they will attempt to be more centrist is not even plausible. McCain was never truly accepted by the conservatives, and using a gambling term, the Republicans will run to the smell. They will start running candidates who are much more conservative and right leaning and move away from centrist candidates. The McCain ideology of reaching across the aisle will be seen by conservatives as compromising your core beliefs. I find myself indifferent in regards to Sarah Palin, but to think she will just dissappear is somewhat unlikely. She has gotten a taste of the political big leagues and has fairly strong base in the religious conservatives. She will be a player in the future, I just don't know at what level.
With the Republican base shrinking and the Democratic base expanding, this is a losing strategy.
I can understand how many would see it this way, but keep in mind that multiple states that overwhelmingly supported Obama, also passed props that banned same sex marriage. It makes you think that there are quite a few "independents" that favor liberal financial ideologies but are firmly conservative on social issues.
he looks and sounds like he knows that what happened is what's best for the country and the world.
I posted this in the election highlights thread:
" Re: Your favourite Election Night moments?
onetet Said:
honestly, for all the high points one of the most memorable and emblematic moments of last night was the gathering at McCain's HQ. the crowd's ferocious booing at the very mention of Obama's name -- in a humble and respectful context, no less -- says a lot.
IMO, McCain was visably dismayed by these reactions, and may have had an epiphany about just how low his campaign was aiming in the final days to reach what his people may have hoped was a "silent majority" of small-minded people living in bigotry and fear. People with that mentality are going to have a hard 4-8 years -- and, I hope, will spend that time learning and growing."
he looks and sounds like he knows that what happened is what's best for the country and the world.
I posted this in the election highlights thread:
" Re: Your favourite Election Night moments?
onetet Said:
honestly, for all the high points one of the most memorable and emblematic moments of last night was the gathering at McCain's HQ. the crowd's ferocious booing at the very mention of Obama's name -- in a humble and respectful context, no less -- says a lot.
IMO, McCain was visably dismayed by these reactions, and may have had an epiphany about just how low his campaign was aiming in the final days to reach what his people may have hoped was a "silent majority" of small-minded people living in bigotry and fear. People with that mentality are going to have a hard 4-8 years -- and, I hope, will spend that time learning and growing."
As a conservative on this board (more rare than a unicorn), I think a lot of strutters are off base on the direction this party will take. The idea that they will attempt to be more centrist is not even plausible. McCain was never truly accepted by the conservatives, and using a gambling term, the Republicans will run to the smell. They will start running candidates who are much more conservative and right leaning and move away from centrist candidates. The McCain ideology of reaching across the aisle will be seen by conservatives as compromising your core beliefs. I find myself indifferent in regards to Sarah Palin, but to think she will just dissappear is somewhat unlikely. She has gotten a taste of the political big leagues and has fairly strong base in the religious conservatives. She will be a player in the future, I just don't know at what level.
With the Republican base shrinking and the Democratic base expanding, this is a losing strategy.
I can understand how many would see it this way, but keep in mind that multiple states that overwhelmingly supported Obama, also passed props that banned same sex marriage. It makes you think that there are quite a few "independents" that favor liberal financial ideologies but are firmly conservative on social issues.
I see where you're going with this, but I think it ignores developing and shifting demographics, especially in the context of how electoral votes are divvied up. The hard truth for the GOP is that it has been reduced regionally to the deep south and some of the mountain west, and culturally to a diminishing demographic (old, white men). Cultural conservatism has some issues that cross over with other groups but not many. At the very least, many of the GOP's cultural positions are out of step with younger, more diverse voters. If Republicans "run to the smell", they may regain some enthusiasm but don't stand a great chance of growing the movement.
He should have started with a thank you to his his staff and volunteers. A recap of the campaign highlights (100 town halls in NH and the pick of Palin). Then he should have talked about the meaning of the campaign (putting country first, fighting pork barrel spending and corruption). He should have said "it was a good fight, we fought hard, but we lost".
After that was out of the way he could have given the rest of the speech with all the praise to Obama.
Unless the people at that party were as nasty as we like to believe then there wouldn't have been the booing.
he looks and sounds like he knows that what happened is what's best for the country and the world.
I posted this in the election highlights thread:
" Re: Your favourite Election Night moments?
onetet Said:
honestly, for all the high points one of the most memorable and emblematic moments of last night was the gathering at McCain's HQ. the crowd's ferocious booing at the very mention of Obama's name -- in a humble and respectful context, no less -- says a lot.
IMO, McCain was visably dismayed by these reactions, and may have had an epiphany about just how low his campaign was aiming in the final days to reach what his people may have hoped was a "silent majority" of small-minded people living in bigotry and fear. People with that mentality are going to have a hard 4-8 years -- and, I hope, will spend that time learning and growing."
This is all so ignorant.
i don't think so.
many liberals would accept the idea that mccain is a whore who will do anything to further his career, but in fact,that he probably disagrees with many of his own positions and campaign tactics. as many journalists/pundits have often stated - the mccain of '00 v. the mccain of '08. its quite possible that he finds a major portion of his supporters are contemptible.
As a conservative on this board (more rare than a unicorn), I think a lot of strutters are off base on the direction this party will take. The idea that they will attempt to be more centrist is not even plausible. McCain was never truly accepted by the conservatives, and using a gambling term, the Republicans will run to the smell. They will start running candidates who are much more conservative and right leaning and move away from centrist candidates. The McCain ideology of reaching across the aisle will be seen by conservatives as compromising your core beliefs. I find myself indifferent in regards to Sarah Palin, but to think she will just dissappear is somewhat unlikely. She has gotten a taste of the political big leagues and has fairly strong base in the religious conservatives. She will be a player in the future, I just don't know at what level.
With the Republican base shrinking and the Democratic base expanding, this is a losing strategy.
I can understand how many would see it this way, but keep in mind that multiple states that overwhelmingly supported Obama, also passed props that banned same sex marriage. It makes you think that there are quite a few "independents" that favor liberal financial ideologies but are firmly conservative on social issues.
You have it exactly backwards when it comes to real numbers. Many more people favor Conservative fiscal/pro-business policies and are firmly liberal regarding social issues. And it will be VERY interesting to see what the GOP does to include those folks in the tent, and if indeed they ever can. They can get some people here and there, but every successive generation cares less and less about some of these issues like gay marriage and no amount of Republican teeth-nashing will put the genie back.
A few weeks ago I started a McCain appreciation thread. And I still mean what I said in it. To add:
He never used Jeremiah Wright. He didn't use Obama's Aunt's immigration status. (Which would have been a Nov surprise for anyone else.) When he saw the hate his campaign was creating he capped it.
He meant all the nice things he said last night.
He will forever be linked with all the stupid nasty things he did in this campaign, but that is not who he is.
he looks and sounds like he knows that what happened is what's best for the country and the world.
I posted this in the election highlights thread:
" Re: Your favourite Election Night moments?
onetet Said:
honestly, for all the high points one of the most memorable and emblematic moments of last night was the gathering at McCain's HQ. the crowd's ferocious booing at the very mention of Obama's name -- in a humble and respectful context, no less -- says a lot.
IMO, McCain was visably dismayed by these reactions, and may have had an epiphany about just how low his campaign was aiming in the final days to reach what his people may have hoped was a "silent majority" of small-minded people living in bigotry and fear. People with that mentality are going to have a hard 4-8 years -- and, I hope, will spend that time learning and growing."
This is all so ignorant.
Enlighten us
The notion that McCain thinks that Obama is better for the country and the world is patently hilarious.
Who wouldn't boo the opponent of your candidate when your guy just lost? It doesn't say anything more than they were upset and frustrated with the result.
We had some equally sore winners posting last night -- at least one.
There are concession speeches and there are concession speeches.
Compare McCain's concession speech with Hillary Clinton's after the primaries were done.
or don't.
the context was totally different; the stakes were totally different.
yea, you're comparing a woman who is close to the start of her political career with a man who is close to dead.
as for the content of her speech, think about what had just happened - her supporters were dedicated to putting the first woman in the whitehouse and she had to address that fact, while finessing them into putting equal work into electing obama. many were still mad doggie. it wasn't an easy task. her speech was fine.
Comments
I hear you. McCain did the only thing he could do and still be a US Senator, and that was to attempt to save face by being dignified and delivering a positive parting message. But it's not as though he suffered, it's not as though he doesn't benefit from this tremendously, and it's nothing to feel for.
ooh, how film noir! I smell a screenplay.
thanks for being nice. i don't think i'm confused and i'm not sure what is surprising about a politician giving a complimentary concession speech that was written for him. bush said some kind words last night, as did the pundits on fox news including karl rove. where is his thread...
As for the booing, who f*cking cares. I'm almost positive that when Kerry gave his concession speech Democrats in the crowd booed when Bush was mentioned. Big deal.
As for Palin, a Republican campaign specialist this morning on NPR said she has to really change her appeal if she wants to be a national politician. He said that exit polls said 60% of people thought she was unqualified for the job. Not only that, she only appealed to the religious Right even within the Republican Party itself. I think she's the next Dan Quayle. Everyone had great plans for him, and he turned out to be a total dud and faded away.
1). I don't F*ck with fox or karl rove
2). make it then if you want it
But if the Religious Right ever start a porn magazine I nominate Sarah as their first centerfold.
With the Republican base shrinking and the Democratic base expanding, this is a losing strategy.
I agree with ya!
Just you watch, McCain is going to pull a Jimmy Swaggart and asked to be forgiven all his sins of the presidential campaign (I don't think he will use the flood of tears though).
Who will be his audience, the press. The same buddy, buddy press who turned on him when Steve Schmidt took over the campaign and kicked them out of the Straight Talk Express. McCain has a history of doing nasty things in the name of political expediency and then seeking forgiveness after the fact. See his "regret" on the Confederate Battle Flag issue from the 2000 campaign.
So, do I have sympathy for McCain. No. He may have taken his lumps like a man but I won't forget the kind of campaign he ran.
Indeed, I don't think she gave a shit about McCain, she was just riding his ass to gain a spot in the public eye. Before this campaign ... Sarah who? No one know who the F*ck she was nor did they care and I wish it were that way again. I'm sure McCain does too. I just got a feeling throughout the campaign that he wished she wasn't there and only acted like he liked her to appease his campaign managers.
Unfortunately, now there's a part of me that is just imagining her being whisked away to some GOP presidential boot camp to prepare her for 2012. As much as she made her and her party look like total asses, the attention she gained from low intelligence America was huge and I can totally picture them trying to use that again.
I mean, all those fucks at the McCain gathering started chanting Sar-ah, Sar-ah. And of course McCain didn't acknowledge them - as he shouldn't have. They both crashed and burned and they deserved it. I won't say that I hate McCain cause I know, somewhere, he is not all evil - but I do HATE Palin with a passion; straight up EVIL.
Really, when you break it down, all she is is a vice-presidential version of joe the plumber. Except, nothing has come out yet about joe the plumber shooting moose from a helicopter.
Well, I mean, let's not get it twisted. She was shooting wolves from a helicopter. Moose are what she makes burgers from.
I can understand how many would see it this way, but keep in mind that multiple states that overwhelmingly supported Obama, also passed props that banned same sex marriage. It makes you think that there are quite a few "independents" that favor liberal financial ideologies but are firmly conservative on social issues.
This is all so ignorant.
Enlighten us
I see where you're going with this, but I think it ignores developing and shifting demographics, especially in the context of how electoral votes are divvied up. The hard truth for the GOP is that it has been reduced regionally to the deep south and some of the mountain west, and culturally to a diminishing demographic (old, white men). Cultural conservatism has some issues that cross over with other groups but not many. At the very least, many of the GOP's cultural positions are out of step with younger, more diverse voters. If Republicans "run to the smell", they may regain some enthusiasm but don't stand a great chance of growing the movement.
He should have started with a thank you to his his staff and volunteers. A recap of the campaign highlights (100 town halls in NH and the pick of Palin). Then he should have talked about the meaning of the campaign (putting country first, fighting pork barrel spending and corruption). He should have said "it was a good fight, we fought hard, but we lost".
After that was out of the way he could have given the rest of the speech with all the praise to Obama.
Unless the people at that party were as nasty as we like to believe then there wouldn't have been the booing.
Not thanking your volunteers? NAGL.
She certainly was a pawn. She was also a power-hungry cunt who went along with the GOP operatives in order to secure her future in the party.
or don't.
the context was totally different; the stakes were totally different.
i don't think so.
many liberals would accept the idea that mccain is a whore who will do anything to further his career, but in fact,that he probably disagrees with many of his own positions and campaign tactics. as many journalists/pundits have often stated - the mccain of '00 v. the mccain of '08. its quite possible that he finds a major portion of his supporters are contemptible.
You have it exactly backwards when it comes to real numbers. Many more people favor Conservative fiscal/pro-business policies and are firmly liberal regarding social issues. And it will be VERY interesting to see what the GOP does to include those folks in the tent, and if indeed they ever can. They can get some people here and there, but every successive generation cares less and less about some of these issues like gay marriage and no amount of Republican teeth-nashing will put the genie back.
It's true - Hillary was stunned at a loss she couldn't believe and wasn't ready to accept. McCain got his ass handed to him.
He never used Jeremiah Wright.
He didn't use Obama's Aunt's immigration status. (Which would have been a Nov surprise for anyone else.)
When he saw the hate his campaign was creating he capped it.
He meant all the nice things he said last night.
He will forever be linked with all the stupid nasty things he did in this campaign, but that is not who he is.
The notion that McCain thinks that Obama is better for the country and the world is patently hilarious.
Who wouldn't boo the opponent of your candidate when your guy just lost? It doesn't say anything more than they were upset and frustrated with the result.
We had some equally sore winners posting last night -- at least one.
yea, you're comparing a woman who is close to the start of her political career with a man who is close to dead.
as for the content of her speech, think about what had just happened - her supporters were dedicated to putting the first woman in the whitehouse and she had to address that fact, while finessing them into putting equal work into electing obama. many were still mad doggie. it wasn't an easy task. her speech was fine.