According to the UEFA site, Liverpool is still in the hunt for Big Ears. That's true?
What if they win that? Everyone is off the hook?
It would be like putting lipstick on a pig. The man should go, he's grinding a legend into the ground face first.
You know, they are only 3 points out the top 4.
I realize expectations are high and the FA loss was embarassing, but the season is far from a disaster.
but more than the stats, it's the perception of how he's marshalling a mighty and mythical European superpower that means his time is probably up. The swagger, style and raw emotional power of yesteryear has been replaced with a craven smothering approach to football, safety first, sacrificing flair... basically it must go against the grain of the generations brought up on the majesty of previous Liverpool dynasties.
From a wider European/world perspective, Liverpool is summed up by the Beatles and the football team.
Far be it for me to speak on behalf of Merseyside, but I am sure they don't want one of those legacies to end up as a fading memory.
According to the UEFA site, Liverpool is still in the hunt for Big Ears. That's true?
What if they win that? Everyone is off the hook?
It would be like putting lipstick on a pig. The man should go, he's grinding a legend into the ground face first.
You know, they are only 3 points out the top 4.
I realize expectations are high and the FA loss was embarassing, but the season is far from a disaster.
try telling a liverpool fan that.
I thought I just did.
My friend who is a lifelong Liverpool fan was the one that pretty much said that to me, anyway, when I called to say sorry about the FA loss. Not in so many words, but he was nowhere near as bleak as you guys.
Try being a Spurs fan. From 5th to 11th. We were talking about taking 4th this year. Champions League. Now? That's a "disaster."
According to the UEFA site, Liverpool is still in the hunt for Big Ears. That's true?
What if they win that? Everyone is off the hook?
It would be like putting lipstick on a pig. The man should go, he's grinding a legend into the ground face first.
You know, they are only 3 points out the top 4.
I realize expectations are high and the FA loss was embarassing, but the season is far from a disaster.
try telling a liverpool fan that.
I thought I just did.
My friend who is a lifelong Liverpool fan was the one that pretty much said that to me, anyway, when I called to say sorry about the FA loss. Not in so many words, but he was nowhere near as bleak as you guys.
Try being a Spurs fan. From 5th to 11th. We were talking about taking 4th this year. Champions League. Now? That's a "disaster."
I see where you're coming from but the feedback my own Liverpudlian and Liverpool supporting friends have always given me is that what they want more than anything is the Premiership title. They're a team that believe they have the right to be challenging every year and watching them slip further and further from contention is just not acceptable.
I think if Rafa gets a good champion's league run again it may put off the inevitable but I think his time may be just about up no matter what.
According to the UEFA site, Liverpool is still in the hunt for Big Ears. That's true?
What if they win that? Everyone is off the hook?
It would be like putting lipstick on a pig. The man should go, he's grinding a legend into the ground face first.
You know, they are only 3 points out the top 4.
I realize expectations are high and the FA loss was embarassing, but the season is far from a disaster.
try telling a liverpool fan that.
I thought I just did.
My friend who is a lifelong Liverpool fan was the one that pretty much said that to me, anyway, when I called to say sorry about the FA loss. Not in so many words, but he was nowhere near as bleak as you guys.
Try being a Spurs fan. From 5th to 11th. We were talking about taking 4th this year. Champions League. Now? That's a "disaster."
I see where you're coming from but the feedback my own Liverpudlian and Liverpool supporting friends have always given me is that what they want more than anything is the Premiership title. They're a team that believe they have the right to be challenging every year and watching them slip further and further from contention is just not acceptable.
I think if Rafa gets a good champion's league run again it may put off the inevitable but I think his time may be just about up no matter what.
thats what ive had from all my mates that support liverpool. to be honest i dont think ive ever heard a liverpool fan put the CL ahead of the Prem.
Try following City. A pundit's verdict of "Too good to go down" is a good season for us.
Thank f*ck we got shut of Joey Barton.
city are alright, i rate Sven as a manager and think he's more suited to club management. Getting rid of joey barton was the best thing they could have done. for all the skill that kid has he will always f*ck it up cos at heart he is a manc scalley who likes fighting too much.
at heart he is a scouse[/b] scally who likes fighting too much.
DocMcCoy"Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,917 Posts
According to the UEFA site, Liverpool is still in the hunt for Big Ears. That's true?
What if they win that? Everyone is off the hook?
It would be like putting lipstick on a pig. The man should go, he's grinding a legend into the ground face first.
You know, they are only 3 points out the top 4.
I realize expectations are high and the FA loss was embarassing, but the season is far from a disaster.
try telling a liverpool fan that.
I thought I just did.
My friend who is a lifelong Liverpool fan was the one that pretty much said that to me, anyway, when I called to say sorry about the FA loss. Not in so many words, but he was nowhere near as bleak as you guys.
Try being a Spurs fan. From 5th to 11th. We were talking about taking 4th this year. Champions League. Now? That's a "disaster."
I see where you're coming from but the feedback my own Liverpudlian and Liverpool supporting friends have always given me is that what they want more than anything is the Premiership title. They're a team that believe they have the right to be challenging every year and watching them slip further and further from contention is just not acceptable.
I think if Rafa gets a good champion's league run again it may put off the inevitable but I think his time may be just about up no matter what.
thats what ive had from all my mates that support liverpool. to be honest i dont think ive ever heard a liverpool fan put the CL ahead of the Prem.
You won't hear it from this Liverpool fan either.
Istanbul was a fantastic event in Liverpool's history for a number of reasons; the nature of the win itself, the fact we did it with a Houllier team (albeit without playing like one), and because it was so unexpected, although my brother called it as early as the Christmas before on the grounds that we were so inconsistent, we could probably win the CL. I thought he was mad.
It's been so long since we exerted any kind of dominance over the domestic game that the Prem ought to be our priority every season. Otherwise we're no different from the likes of Spurs, another side with a glorious past who've now become an irrelevance in the League, and whose best hope of success from season to season lies in putting together a decent Cup run. I genuinely thought we were in with a decent chance this time out. Injuries to key players haven't helped - we've missed Daniel Agger like we'd miss an arm - but many of the dependables of previous seasons have been poor. Finnan's been woeful at times, Alonso is having his duffest campaign since his arrival and Sissoko's failure to regain his form saw him get shipped out altogether. With one or two exceptions, most of the players Rafa's brought in over the last couple of seasons are either average, or have struggled to adapt. He simply hasn't bought well.
I'm less convinced than I was that Rafa is the man to bring the league title back to Anfield, but I'd have no problem with him being given another season, although he needs to seriously rethink his tactics and his approach. If Gillett and Hicks were to give him exactly what he wants and he still couldn't do it, then I'd have to concede it was time for a change. And, loath as I am to even entertain the idea on one level, I wouldn't replace him with anyone other than Jose Mourinho.
I wouldn't replace him with anyone other than Jose Mourinho.
he'll get you the prem for sure, it wont be pretty but you will get that winning mentality back. im really quite intrigued to see where he'll end up next season.
Most of the opinions I've read from Liverpool fans blame the Americans.
dont know why that is. They dont pick the team do they? Rafa has to go, his rotation policy is rubbish, his league record in four seasons has been rubbish. He's just not the man for the job, it hasnt worked out & never will. Time for someone else to give it a shot.....as for this "real fans" sticking by him shit. I've been a fan for 22 years, the reason alot of so called die hard fans wont say anything bad about him is because he won the CL in 05, its deluding people into thinking he's actually alot better then he is. Its time these fans woke up
Fergie and Keano were always banging on about how it was OK to win the league but they were disappointed with the Champions League performances, which they attach a lot more kudos to. So they obviously rate this goal as more lofty than the title, as does Rafa.
And as Rafa says, he's won it twice and taken the team to 2 out of the last 3 finals. So I can kind of understand why he seems bemused at the desire of the fans for league success when he's after the bigger picture.
As Giggsy has said today, talking about U*ited's exit in the semis of the CL last year:
"The semi-final was tough last year because we came up against a very good Milan team. We were down to the bare bones and still going for the Premier League title, but Milan weren't going for anything else and so were able to rest players.
It was just different circumstances for different teams really. Their main aim was to win the Champions League, while we were probably split on which was the better trophy to go for because a lot of our players hadn't won the Premier League before."
Rafa has seen the effects of spreading yourselves too thinly and has therefore made the CL the priority. Surely, ANY club in the Prem would rather take the CL than the domestic title?
- but many of the dependables of previous seasons have been poor.
plenty of other disappointments too
Riise: long time no screamer Kewell: why is this show pony still involved in the game? Seen less often than a unicorn Pennant: clearly not up to scratch. Even Wenger could see that Voronin: workhorse, but where's the panache? Where's the beauty? Where's the art?
please add more
btw re: barton. I shake my head like everyone else at the sheer scale of his breath-taking stupidity, but he called it so right on the world cup flop book scandal, and for that alone, hats off. yes Lampard, talking about you son
So FWIW, I can understand Rafa's reasoning, insofar as resting players to make sure he always fields a strong side for Europe. I think he should stay.
The problem is that the fans have gotten used to the First Division days of Keegan, Barnes, Rush et al cleaning up domestically which seems undoable whilst mounting a good run in the CL these days. The only teams that could pull this off these days will have to have a squad deeper than the Marianas Trench.
Giggsy again: "Having players return will hopefully give the manager some selection headaches, but if you think about teams such as AC Milan, Inter Milan, Real Madrid and Barcelona, you forget about some of the players that they have got," Giggs said.
"You look at the bench and think, 'Is he still there?' Quality players aren't even making their bench and that's what we must get to.
"We need to have a squad where good players are not even being named as a substitute. We've had that a few times this season, probably not quite as often as we'd like, but hopefully it will happen more often in the last few months of the season."
Fergie and Keano were always banging on about how it was OK to win the league but they were disappointed with the Champions League performances, which they attach a lot more kudos to. So they obviously rate this goal as more lofty than the title, as does Rafa.
And as Rafa says, he's won it twice and taken the team to 2 out of the last 3 finals. So I can kind of understand why he seems bemused at the desire of the fans for league success when he's after the bigger picture.
As Giggsy has said today, talking about U*ited's exit in the semis of the CL last year:
"The semi-final was tough last year because we came up against a very good Milan team. We were down to the bare bones and still going for the Premier League title, but Milan weren't going for anything else and so were able to rest players.
It was just different circumstances for different teams really. Their main aim was to win the Champions League, while we were probably split on which was the better trophy to go for because a lot of our players hadn't won the Premier League before."
Rafa has seen the effects of spreading yourselves too thinly and has therefore made the CL the priority. Surely, ANY club in the Prem would rather take the CL than the domestic title?
Yes but Fergie only started harping on about the Champion's League after he had won the title. It's undoubtedly become an obsession now for Man U but if you look at his record he's got 9 premiership titles and I think he, and the fans, feel that, with that kind of domestic success, they should really be adding a few more European titles to cement their place as one of the modern greats.
The success Liverpool had in 2005 was amazing and thoroughly deserves recognition (as does getting there last year with by far from the best team in the competition). However, as Doc pointed out, Liverpool fans rightly see themselves as one of the great English teams and this needs to be backed up with domestic dominance of the league and not a reputation as a 'Cup team'.
DocMcCoy"Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,917 Posts
2-0. An upset. YNWA!
Rafa vindicated?
Just delaying the inevitable.
Perhaps. I don't see us winning the competition itself, but I think we've done enough to get through this round. I was impressed with us last night - first time Inter have lost in five months - but I just wish we'd show more of that in the league. Mascherano showed that he's a truly world-class midfielder, and despite my slagging him off upthread, Finnan was terrific. And much as I may curse Gerrard every time he wildly thrashes it from the edge of the box without so much as a glance to see if he can play another man in, when he hits them as sweetly as that, I can't stay mad at him for long.
Inter did what you'd expect an Italian side to do when playing away in Europe; soak up the pressure and try to catch us on the break. They were really well-organised, even after losing Matterazzi and Cordoba, and they'll be tough to beat at the San Siro. No sympathy for Matterazzi, though - once a bluenose, etc.
I thought Liverpool were very poor last night, and were lucky to come away with the points. I don't know what Matrix did for the first yellow, but he didn't deserve the second, and it just cheapens the victory. Inter fans will be grumbling about partisan decisions, and Liverpool created very little against 10 men for the best part of an hour. Was Benayoun injured? Kuyt, despite his goal, is proving to be a dud purchase - he's a striker who gets so few goals he's being played as a winger, seemingly to save Rafa's face as a bad investment. Voronin rarely starts. When Crouch comes on, only Pennant looked like making a useful cross, and frankly, Pennant isn't top-four-team material. Kewell should've been off-loaded ages ago... yet they sold Hamman who delivers week in week out for Man City. Babel has a poor first touch and I didn't see him beat a man all night. On the plus side, Hypia showed that experience can make up for a few yards of pace, and he had Ibrahimovicz in his pocket, and nearly got a headed goal. Carragher was ok. Gerrard needs to be told to keep his passing simple, but enjoyed the freedom to roam. And Mascherano bossed the midfield. Benitez made the biggest mistake ever in last year's Champ League final when he took Mascherano off, who'd stifled the entire Milan attack on his own, so let's hope he doesn't do the same again. Liverpool miss Alonso. He see's things that Stevie Me never will, and makes up for some of the team's glaring deficiencies in attack. Torres is a great player, but he needs better service from players like Benayoun and Alonso.
Can I just add: did or did not the boy Viera look dreadful? How the mighty etc etc
Rafa's apologists are out in force in the meeja this morning, with the subtext that he has bought some time with this (desrved, but eventually fortuitous) win.
I thought Liverpool were very poor last night, and were lucky to come away with the points. I don't know what Matrix did for the first yellow, but he didn't deserve the second, and it just cheapens the victory. Inter fans will be grumbling about partisan decisions, and Liverpool created very little against 10 men for the best part of an hour.
They reminded me a bit of England, in the way that they seemed to lack any real creativity in th final 3rd. The ref had a terrible game, but Liverpool should have had at least 1 penalty so maybe it evened out the sending off. But that said, Inter are a very strong team, even with 10 men. So I think Liverpool deserved the win.
Comments
What if they win that? Everyone is off the hook?
It would be like putting lipstick on a pig.
The man should go, he's grinding a legend into the ground face first.
You know, they are only 3 points out the top 4.
I realize expectations are high and the FA loss was embarassing,
but the season is far from a disaster.
but more than the stats, it's the perception of how he's marshalling a mighty and mythical European superpower that means his time is probably up.
The swagger, style and raw emotional power of yesteryear has been replaced with a craven smothering approach to football, safety first, sacrificing flair...
basically it must go against the grain of the generations brought up on the majesty of previous Liverpool dynasties.
From a wider European/world perspective, Liverpool is summed up by the Beatles and the football team.
Far be it for me to speak on behalf of Merseyside, but I am sure they don't want one of those legacies to end up as a fading memory.
try telling a liverpool fan that.
I thought I just did.
My friend who is a lifelong Liverpool fan was
the one that pretty much said that to me, anyway,
when I called to say sorry about the FA loss. Not in
so many words, but he was nowhere near as bleak as you guys.
Try being a Spurs fan. From 5th to 11th. We were talking about
taking 4th this year. Champions League. Now? That's a "disaster."
Thank f*ck we got shut of Joey Barton.
I see where you're coming from but the feedback my own Liverpudlian and Liverpool supporting friends have always given me is that what they want more than anything is the Premiership title. They're a team that believe they have the right to be challenging every year and watching them slip further and further from contention is just not acceptable.
I think if Rafa gets a good champion's league run again it may put off the inevitable but I think his time may be just about up no matter what.
thats what ive had from all my mates that support liverpool. to be honest i dont think ive ever heard a liverpool fan put the CL ahead of the Prem.
city are alright, i rate Sven as a manager and think he's more suited to club management. Getting rid of joey barton was the best thing they could have done. for all the skill that kid has he will always f*ck it up cos at heart he is a manc scalley who likes fighting too much.
You won't hear it from this Liverpool fan either.
Istanbul was a fantastic event in Liverpool's history for a number of reasons; the nature of the win itself, the fact we did it with a Houllier team (albeit without playing like one), and because it was so unexpected, although my brother called it as early as the Christmas before on the grounds that we were so inconsistent, we could probably win the CL. I thought he was mad.
It's been so long since we exerted any kind of dominance over the domestic game that the Prem ought to be our priority every season. Otherwise we're no different from the likes of Spurs, another side with a glorious past who've now become an irrelevance in the League, and whose best hope of success from season to season lies in putting together a decent Cup run. I genuinely thought we were in with a decent chance this time out. Injuries to key players haven't helped - we've missed Daniel Agger like we'd miss an arm - but many of the dependables of previous seasons have been poor. Finnan's been woeful at times, Alonso is having his duffest campaign since his arrival and Sissoko's failure to regain his form saw him get shipped out altogether. With one or two exceptions, most of the players Rafa's brought in over the last couple of seasons are either average, or have struggled to adapt. He simply hasn't bought well.
I'm less convinced than I was that Rafa is the man to bring the league title back to Anfield, but I'd have no problem with him being given another season, although he needs to seriously rethink his tactics and his approach. If Gillett and Hicks were to give him exactly what he wants and he still couldn't do it, then I'd have to concede it was time for a change. And, loath as I am to even entertain the idea on one level, I wouldn't replace him with anyone other than Jose Mourinho.
Real talk.
Reality is Perception.
Marketing 101
try telling a crazy person he's crazy.
my apologies.
i do love the way he went to the only club more f*cked up than him!
he'll get you the prem for sure, it wont be pretty but you will get that winning mentality back. im really quite intrigued to see where he'll end up next season.
dont know why that is. They dont pick the team do they? Rafa has to go, his rotation policy is rubbish, his league record in four seasons has been rubbish. He's just not the man for the job, it hasnt worked out & never will. Time for someone else to give it a shot.....as for this "real fans" sticking by him shit. I've been a fan for 22 years, the reason alot of so called die hard fans wont say anything bad about him is because he won the CL in 05, its deluding people into thinking he's actually alot better then he is. Its time these fans woke up
And as Rafa says, he's won it twice and taken the team to 2 out of the last 3 finals. So I can kind of understand why he seems bemused at the desire of the fans for league success when he's after the bigger picture.
As Giggsy has said today, talking about U*ited's exit in the semis of the CL last year:
"The semi-final was tough last year because we came up against a very good Milan team. We were down to the bare bones and still going for the Premier League title, but Milan weren't going for anything else and so were able to rest players.
It was just different circumstances for different teams really. Their main aim was to win the Champions League, while we were probably split on which was the better trophy to go for because a lot of our players hadn't won the Premier League before."
Rafa has seen the effects of spreading yourselves too thinly and has therefore made the CL the priority. Surely, ANY club in the Prem would rather take the CL than the domestic title?
plenty of other disappointments too
Riise: long time no screamer
Kewell: why is this show pony still involved in the game? Seen less often than a unicorn
Pennant: clearly not up to scratch. Even Wenger could see that
Voronin: workhorse, but where's the panache? Where's the beauty? Where's the art?
please add more
btw re: barton. I shake my head like everyone else at the sheer scale of his breath-taking stupidity, but he called it so right on the world cup flop book scandal, and for that alone, hats off.
yes Lampard, talking about you son
The problem is that the fans have gotten used to the First Division days of Keegan, Barnes, Rush et al cleaning up domestically which seems undoable whilst mounting a good run in the CL these days. The only teams that could pull this off these days will have to have a squad deeper than the Marianas Trench.
Giggsy again:
"Having players return will hopefully give the manager some selection headaches, but if you think about teams such as AC Milan, Inter Milan, Real Madrid and Barcelona, you forget about some of the players that they have got," Giggs said.
"You look at the bench and think, 'Is he still there?' Quality players aren't even making their bench and that's what we must get to.
"We need to have a squad where good players are not even being named as a substitute. We've had that a few times this season, probably not quite as often as we'd like, but hopefully it will happen more often in the last few months of the season."
Yes but Fergie only started harping on about the Champion's League after he had won the title. It's undoubtedly become an obsession now for Man U but if you look at his record he's got 9 premiership titles and I think he, and the fans, feel that, with that kind of domestic success, they should really be adding a few more European titles to cement their place as one of the modern greats.
The success Liverpool had in 2005 was amazing and thoroughly deserves recognition (as does getting there last year with by far from the best team in the competition). However, as Doc pointed out, Liverpool fans rightly see themselves as one of the great English teams and this needs to be backed up with domestic dominance of the league and not a reputation as a 'Cup team'.
Rafa vindicated?
Just delaying the inevitable.
Perhaps. I don't see us winning the competition itself, but I think we've done enough to get through this round. I was impressed with us last night - first time Inter have lost in five months - but I just wish we'd show more of that in the league. Mascherano showed that he's a truly world-class midfielder, and despite my slagging him off upthread, Finnan was terrific. And much as I may curse Gerrard every time he wildly thrashes it from the edge of the box without so much as a glance to see if he can play another man in, when he hits them as sweetly as that, I can't stay mad at him for long.
Inter did what you'd expect an Italian side to do when playing away in Europe; soak up the pressure and try to catch us on the break. They were really well-organised, even after losing Matterazzi and Cordoba, and they'll be tough to beat at the San Siro. No sympathy for Matterazzi, though - once a bluenose, etc.
On the plus side, Hypia showed that experience can make up for a few yards of pace, and he had Ibrahimovicz in his pocket, and nearly got a headed goal. Carragher was ok. Gerrard needs to be told to keep his passing simple, but enjoyed the freedom to roam. And Mascherano bossed the midfield. Benitez made the biggest mistake ever in last year's Champ League final when he took Mascherano off, who'd stifled the entire Milan attack on his own, so let's hope he doesn't do the same again. Liverpool miss Alonso. He see's things that Stevie Me never will, and makes up for some of the team's glaring deficiencies in attack. Torres is a great player, but he needs better service from players like Benayoun and Alonso.
How the mighty etc etc
Rafa's apologists are out in force in the meeja this morning, with the subtext that he has bought some time with this (desrved, but eventually fortuitous) win.
I say, one swallow does not a summer make.
He's white,
His grandad stole a bike,
Harry Kewell, Harry Kewell....
If you look at a limpet's foot under a microscope, they are covered in hundreds of tiny pictures of Harry. He has some magical power to stick around.
They reminded me a bit of England, in the way that they seemed to lack any real creativity in th final 3rd.
The ref had a terrible game, but Liverpool should have had at least 1 penalty so maybe it evened out the sending off.
But that said, Inter are a very strong team, even with 10 men. So I think Liverpool deserved the win.
seriously.