okay, keep the personal insults coming, but please get your facts right before you start hurling them at me. he said "i'm not a democrat". i don't think it takes a big leap to assume that if he's not a democrat, there must be some republican policies that he favors. while its arguable to say we have a three party system (independents included), when it comes down to it, there are republican policies and democratic policies because the issues are the issues (gun control, abortion, etc.). if you say your an independent, that generally means you are split, to some degree, on the issues.
are you this dense? seriously?
there's no backing out of how ridiculous your statement was and the "logic" above that attempts to support it. just stop, say you misspoke and move on.
okay, keep the personal insults coming, but please get your facts right before you start hurling them at me. he said "i'm not a democrat". i don't think it takes a big leap to assume that if he's not a democrat, there must be some republican policies that he favors. while its arguable to say we have a three party system (independents included), when it comes down to it, there are republican policies and democratic policies because the issues are the issues (gun control, abortion, etc.). if you say your an independent, that generally means you are split, to some degree, on the issues.
are you this dense? seriously?
For a minute, I thought you were trying to take a reasoned - albeit zealous - stand for your candidate but this thread has seen a real devolution in your ability to rationalize. Sure, some other folks came at you on some stupid shit but instead of rising to the occasion, you've descended with the rancor and are now sounding as bad as some of the worst sentiments being espoused, regardless of the candidate they're backing.
personally, I understand backing Hillary more than Obama on a policy level or on how she's a lot stronger in the debates. Alas, there's much to dislike about her as well.
Where's Al? We need Al! (Kidding. Well, mostly kidding)
Those Republicans who are hoping and praying that Hillary gets the nomination because they feel she is so divisive and unelectable that fence sitters, independents and fellow Reps who usually don't get off their asses and vote will come out in droves to vote AGAINST Hillary resulting in yet another Republican Prez??[/b]
KVH.....doesn't the above possibility scare the shit out of you as a Dem??
why do you (and Unherd) keep making the same point over and over again? i think its a good thing that republicans can't keep hillary's name out of their mouths. fuck them and i don't want a candidate running who doesn't piss of the gop. there was another article in the nyt that was talking about obama might be perceived as "wussified". exactly. watch hillary in the debates against mccain if she wins. his arms are too short to slap box with god! when mccain gets his ass kicked, i think republicans will slink back into their holes and let destiny unfold. if i'm wrong, and its obvious that mccain will beat hillary, i'll vote for obama in pa. no problem with that.
and johnny, you're not a democrat...why not? please name some republican policies that you favor.
You don't get it....seriously.....you don't.
It seems like this is more an ego driven "fuck those people" agenda you have rather than a let's hope whomever is elected does what's best for the COUNTRY.
And on a kinder, gentler note here is what I don't think you understand...
The majority of this country is not into politics, as a matter of fact they hate the types of conversations/debates we have here.
A good majority of these people will vote based on emotion, not issues. The ultimate "perfect" candidate is likable, good looking, well spoken AND strong on policy/issues.
You can sit back and belittle this fact, accuse these people of being stupid, or at least not as smart as "you", but ultimately you can't change it.
And Hillary evokes more "emotion" than any other political figure in the U.S. besides Cheney/Bush.....and the majority of that emotion is not positive.
Hillary may be the best candidate, issue wise.
She may have the most experience and be the best qualified.
She just can't win because of the reasons I outline above.
"But there are polls that say......."
Let me tell you this....if Hillary runs, the "polls" will be useless and no one will truly know what the score is until Election Day.
Why??
Because the people who will decide this election will not be affiliated with the Left or the Right....they will be those non-political people who 1) Don't participate in polls and 2) Will be voting on emotion.
And this "emotion" is what will motivate millions of people to go vote who otherwise wouldn't.
You can console yourself by assuring yourself that YOU had it right and THEY are wrong, but that doesn't help get a Dem in the White House.
If I'm wrong, and in November we have our first female President I'll come here pronto and say I was wrong and you had it figured out from the get-go.
But if I'm right, you can bet on "I told you so's" out the ass.
okay, keep the personal insults coming, but please get your facts right before you start hurling them at me. he said "i'm not a democrat". i don't think it takes a big leap to assume that if he's not a democrat, there must be some republican policies that he favors. while its arguable to say we have a three party system (independents included), when it comes down to it, there are republican policies and democratic policies because the issues are the issues (gun control, abortion, etc.). if you say your an independent, that generally means you are split, to some degree, on the issues.
are you this dense? seriously?
For a minute, I thought you were trying to take a reasoned - albeit zealous - stand for your candidate but this thread has seen a real devolution in your ability to rationalize. Sure, some other folks came at you on some stupid shit but instead of rising to the occasion, you've descended with the rancor and are now sounding as bad as some of the worst sentiments being espoused, regardless of the candidate they're backing.
Bravo.
Here's where he either disappears for a while or tries the HarveyC/Archaic patented "wake and bake" defense.
okay, keep the personal insults coming, but please get your facts right before you start hurling them at me. he said "i'm not a democrat". i don't think it takes a big leap to assume that if he's not a democrat, there must be some republican policies that he favors. while its arguable to say we have a three party system (independents included), when it comes down to it, there are republican policies and democratic policies because the issues are the issues (gun control, abortion, etc.). if you say your an independent, that generally means you are split, to some degree, on the issues.
are you this dense? seriously?
For a minute, I thought you were trying to take a reasoned - albeit zealous - stand for your candidate but this thread has seen a real devolution in your ability to rationalize. Sure, some other folks came at you on some stupid shit but instead of rising to the occasion, you've descended with the rancor and are now sounding as bad as some of the worst sentiments being espoused, regardless of the candidate they're backing.
Bravo.
please show me where i made personal insults to people (aside from cutting and pasting what they wrote to me) that weren't tongue-in-cheek. i'm the one person who is making a case for hillary and every fool on here is calling me an idiot (or worse) at every turn. you take the cake though because you totally misrepresented what i said, had me call you out on it, and now you come back talking about how i've crossed the line. haha. okay.
bill clinton just released a statement to the obama folks, and i will express the same sentiments to the soulstrutters in this thread:
okay, keep the personal insults coming, but please get your facts right before you start hurling them at me. he said "i'm not a democrat". i don't think it takes a big leap to assume that if he's not a democrat, there must be some republican policies that he favors. while its arguable to say we have a three party system (independents included), when it comes down to it, there are republican policies and democratic policies because the issues are the issues (gun control, abortion, etc.). if you say your an independent, that generally means you are split, to some degree, on the issues.
They have had their pic taken so many times over the last 20 years I bet they have posed with a few serial killers and at least one space alien.
I remember that infamous photo with Roslyn Carter posing with John Wayne Gacy.
Doesn't mean a damn thing.
But it is akin to the same kind of loose interpretation of the truth that the Clinton's spin daily... so it's appropriate. Had this been a pic of Obama and Norman Hsu, the Clintons would have launched it at Obama's throat.
okay, keep the personal insults coming, but please get your facts right before you start hurling them at me. he said "i'm not a democrat". i don't think it takes a big leap to assume that if he's not a democrat, there must be some republican policies that he favors. while its arguable to say we have a three party system (independents included), when it comes down to it, there are republican policies and democratic policies because the issues are the issues (gun control, abortion, etc.). if you say your an independent, that generally means you are split, to some degree, on the issues.
are you this dense? seriously?
Are you a lawyer? Seriously?
are you a cop or are you writing a book about me? you seem to gravitate towards me in every thread, not really involved in the debate, but asking me questions like you're a reporter. contribute to the discussion (or lack thereof) or go lecture one of your students about chewing gum in class...but stop e-stalking me.
if i'm misinterpreting your question to be an actual question and the reality is that you're just trying to be snarky.... wow, how witty of you. sonned...
Not being down with the Dems can be about not liking the party and its history. You could hold similar views with their positions but we're talking about an institution.
To add: Not all conservatives like the GOP either.
I tend to vote Democratic for presidential elections, not b/c I believe in the entire Democratic platform but because, usually, it's the lesser of two evils. Pre-2000, I would have sought out, perhaps, a viable 3rd party candidate but 8 years of Bush is enough to make me go with the realpolitik approach.
I tend to vote Democratic for presidential elections, not b/c I believe in the entire Democratic platform but because, usually, it's the lesser of two evils. Pre-2000
That pretty much sums it up right there. If Hillary gets the nod, it will be the equal of two evils. Her own husband just said that she and McCain are a lot alike.
I tend to vote Democratic for presidential elections, not b/c I believe in the entire Democratic platform but because, usually, it's the lesser of two evils. Pre-2000
That pretty much sums it up right there. If Hillary gets the nod, it will be the equal of two evils. Her own husband just said that she and McCain are a lot alike.
Personally, I've turned around on the Iraq issue. I just can't see a quick withdrawal as being a responsible option though I suspect, whoever gets elected, will come to the same conclusion if they haven't already.
Not being down with the Dems can be about not liking the party and its history. You could hold similar views with their positions but we're talking about an institution.
To add: Not all conservatives like the GOP either.
I tend to vote Democratic for presidential elections, not b/c I believe in the entire Democratic platform but because, usually, it's the lesser of two evils. Pre-2000, I would have sought out, perhaps, a viable 3rd party candidate but 8 years of Bush is enough to make me go with the realpolitik approach.
i assume this is in response to my assumption that Johnny saying he "is not a democrat" warranted me posing the QUESTION about what republican policies he favors. sorry, but there are issues that don't have any wiggle room and that clearly define the parties. i'm not saying there aren't pro choice republicans, but one party is clearly aligned with that issue more than the other. this isn't anything new. someone else actually gave an answer that was entirely appropriate, talking about the 2nd amendment (clearly a gop issue) v. gun control (clearly a democratic position).
if someone tells me they aren't a democrat, its no leap of faith to assume that there are policies of the gop that they favor. the same CANNOT be said of independents. there is not a single issue that you can associate with independents. that's why the are independent!
my question was entirely on point. if you wanna apologize for calling me dense, i'll be online for another 20 minutes or so.
Party politics gets the gasface from me. The Dem party long ago became closet liberals that just back down, wimp out, and bend over when their ass is over the fire.
I don't agree with everything liberals espouse but I sure did get tired of the party playing lip service to liberal ideas and meanwhile getting just as dirty as Republicans, just as corrupt, authoring just as much pork and wasting MY tax money with the same disregard.
If you think the Dem party is all good you have been drinking the kool-aid. What is liberal about you other than your words?
I tend to vote Democratic for presidential elections, not b/c I believe in the entire Democratic platform but because, usually, it's the lesser of two evils. Pre-2000
That pretty much sums it up right there. If Hillary gets the nod, it will be the equal of two evils. Her own husband just said that she and McCain are a lot alike.
Personally, I've turned around on the Iraq issue. I just can't see a quick withdrawal as being a responsible option though I suspect, whoever gets elected, will come to the same conclusion if they haven't already.
I think that only Kucinich was in favor of an immediate and complete withdrawal from Iraq. It's a qaugmire and leaving there isn't going to be easy, but McCain has personally stated that he wouldn't care if the military stayed 100 years or more. Hillary has no only voted to go to war with Iraq but also voted to name the Iranian Revolutionary guard as a terrorist organization, which would have effectively made Iran on par with Al Qaeda.
So would I ever see her as leading the US out of Iraq/middle eastern conflict? Never.
Not to mention that she's completely in the pocket of the Israel Lobby.
Party politics gets the gasface from me. The Dem party long ago became closet liberals that just back down, wimp out, and bend over when their ass is over the fire.
I don't agree with everything liberals espouse but I sure did get tired of the party playing lip service to liberal ideas and meanwhile getting just as dirty as Republicans, just as corrupt, authoring just as much pork and wasting MY tax money with the same disregard.
If you think the Dem party is all good you have been drinking the kool-aid. What is liberal about you other than your words?
Edit your poast--my man did not stick around for twenty minutes to read this tepid excuse for an apology!
that has nothing to do with the question. dude, forget it. its not important. i didn't try to make this thread personal in any way, but thats what it looks like right now. have a good weekend dudes.
Comments
there's no backing out of how ridiculous your statement was and the "logic" above that attempts to support it. just stop, say you misspoke and move on.
For a minute, I thought you were trying to take a reasoned - albeit zealous - stand for your candidate but this thread has seen a real devolution in your ability to rationalize. Sure, some other folks came at you on some stupid shit but instead of rising to the occasion, you've descended with the rancor and are now sounding as bad as some of the worst sentiments being espoused, regardless of the candidate they're backing.
Bravo.
I'm an independent because the Democratic party made it clear they were just RepublicanLitetm a long time ago.
personally, I understand backing Hillary more than Obama on a policy level or on how she's a lot stronger in the debates. Alas, there's much to dislike about her as well.
Where's Al? We need Al! (Kidding. Well, mostly kidding)
^^^ DYED IN THE WOOL FALANGIST
You don't get it....seriously.....you don't.
It seems like this is more an ego driven "fuck those people" agenda you have rather than a let's hope whomever is elected does what's best for the COUNTRY.
And on a kinder, gentler note here is what I don't think you understand...
The majority of this country is not into politics, as a matter of fact they hate the types of conversations/debates we have here.
A good majority of these people will vote based on emotion, not issues. The ultimate "perfect" candidate is likable, good looking, well spoken AND strong on policy/issues.
You can sit back and belittle this fact, accuse these people of being stupid, or at least not as smart as "you", but ultimately you can't change it.
And Hillary evokes more "emotion" than any other political figure in the U.S. besides Cheney/Bush.....and the majority of that emotion is not positive.
Hillary may be the best candidate, issue wise.
She may have the most experience and be the best qualified.
She just can't win because of the reasons I outline above.
"But there are polls that say......."
Let me tell you this....if Hillary runs, the "polls" will be useless and no one will truly know what the score is until Election Day.
Why??
Because the people who will decide this election will not be affiliated with the Left or the Right....they will be those non-political people who 1) Don't participate in polls and 2) Will be voting on emotion.
And this "emotion" is what will motivate millions of people to go vote who otherwise wouldn't.
You can console yourself by assuring yourself that YOU had it right and THEY are wrong, but that doesn't help get a Dem in the White House.
If I'm wrong, and in November we have our first female President I'll come here pronto and say I was wrong and you had it figured out from the get-go.
But if I'm right, you can bet on "I told you so's" out the ass.
Here's where he either disappears for a while or tries the HarveyC/Archaic patented "wake and bake" defense.
You HAVE to vote for one of us!
"Well I think I'll vote for a third party candidate"
Go Ahead! Throw Your Vote Away!
I want change, I don't want excuses.
please show me where i made personal insults to people (aside from cutting and pasting what they wrote to me) that weren't tongue-in-cheek. i'm the one person who is making a case for hillary and every fool on here is calling me an idiot (or worse) at every turn. you take the cake though because you totally misrepresented what i said, had me call you out on it, and now you come back talking about how i've crossed the line. haha. okay.
bill clinton just released a statement to the obama folks, and i will express the same sentiments to the soulstrutters in this thread:
"
Don't look at me. I voted for Kodos...
Zactly
and who'd you vote for in '04?
Got lost in the Reymadness...
I voted for GWB in 2000 and didn't vote for him in '04.
What does this have to do with this thread or the '08 election??
Did nothing in my previous long winded thread seem logical to you?
They have had their pic taken so many times over the last 20 years I bet they have posed with a few serial killers and at least one space alien.
I remember that infamous photo with Roslyn Carter posing with John Wayne Gacy.
Doesn't mean a damn thing.
Are you a lawyer? Seriously?
But it is akin to the same kind of loose interpretation of the truth that the Clinton's spin daily... so it's appropriate. Had this been a pic of Obama and Norman Hsu, the Clintons would have launched it at Obama's throat.
are you a cop or are you writing a book about me? you seem to gravitate towards me in every thread, not really involved in the debate, but asking me questions like you're a reporter. contribute to the discussion (or lack thereof) or go lecture one of your students about chewing gum in class...but stop e-stalking me.
if i'm misinterpreting your question to be an actual question and the reality is that you're just trying to be snarky.... wow, how witty of you. sonned...
To add: Not all conservatives like the GOP either.
I tend to vote Democratic for presidential elections, not b/c I believe in the entire Democratic platform but because, usually, it's the lesser of two evils. Pre-2000, I would have sought out, perhaps, a viable 3rd party candidate but 8 years of Bush is enough to make me go with the realpolitik approach.
That pretty much sums it up right there. If Hillary gets the nod, it will be the equal of two evils. Her own husband just said that she and McCain are a lot alike.
Why? because neither one wants out of Iraq.
Personally, I've turned around on the Iraq issue. I just can't see a quick withdrawal as being a responsible option though I suspect, whoever gets elected, will come to the same conclusion if they haven't already.
i assume this is in response to my assumption that Johnny saying he "is not a democrat" warranted me posing the QUESTION about what republican policies he favors. sorry, but there are issues that don't have any wiggle room and that clearly define the parties. i'm not saying there aren't pro choice republicans, but one party is clearly aligned with that issue more than the other. this isn't anything new. someone else actually gave an answer that was entirely appropriate, talking about the 2nd amendment (clearly a gop issue) v. gun control (clearly a democratic position).
if someone tells me they aren't a democrat, its no leap of faith to assume that there are policies of the gop that they favor. the same CANNOT be said of independents. there is not a single issue that you can associate with independents. that's why the are independent!
my question was entirely on point. if you wanna apologize for calling me dense, i'll be online for another 20 minutes or so.
Your question was ridiculous.
I don't affiliate with a party. Any party.
Party politics gets the gasface from me. The Dem party long ago became closet liberals that just back down, wimp out, and bend over when their ass is over the fire.
I don't agree with everything liberals espouse but I sure did get tired of the party playing lip service to liberal ideas and meanwhile getting just as dirty as Republicans, just as corrupt, authoring just as much pork and wasting MY tax money with the same disregard.
If you think the Dem party is all good you have been drinking the kool-aid. What is liberal about you other than your words?
I think that only Kucinich was in favor of an immediate and complete withdrawal from Iraq. It's a qaugmire and leaving there isn't going to be easy, but McCain has personally stated that he wouldn't care if the military stayed 100 years or more. Hillary has no only voted to go to war with Iraq but also voted to name the Iranian Revolutionary guard as a terrorist organization, which would have effectively made Iran on par with Al Qaeda.
So would I ever see her as leading the US out of Iraq/middle eastern conflict? Never.
Not to mention that she's completely in the pocket of the Israel Lobby.
Edit your poast--my man did not stick around for twenty minutes to read this tepid excuse for an apology!
that has nothing to do with the question. dude, forget it. its not important. i didn't try to make this thread personal in any way, but thats what it looks like right now. have a good weekend dudes.