from the voice of god himself David Simon speaking from on high in the DVD commentary that it is not Michael who did Bodie.
well I haven't seen that so I defer.
damn, i feel as if my grasp on reality is shook. i was so certain it was michael.
i also, assuming it was michael, appreciated the symmetry to wallace's murder.
dollarbin, do you remember what d.simon said in the commentary?
I'd have to go back and listen to it but he basically said that he felt that they made it clear in the previous scene between Chris and Marlow that they wouldn't use Michael for the shooting.
Right and if you watch the episode again, you'll notice the shooter (hoodie notwithstanding) is clearly not Michael.
from the voice of god himself David Simon speaking from on high in the DVD commentary that it is not Michael who did Bodie.
well I haven't seen that so I defer.
damn, i feel as if my grasp on reality is shook. i was so certain it was michael.
i also, assuming it was michael, appreciated the symmetry to wallace's murder.
dollarbin, do you remember what d.simon said in the commentary?
I'd have to go back and listen to it but he basically said that he felt that they made it clear in the previous scene between Chris and Marlow that they wouldn't use Michael for the shooting.
Right and if you watch the episode again, you'll notice the shooter (hoodie notwithstanding) is clearly not Michael.
the way they set it up, imo, clearly leads the viewer to think it would be michael.. a character they have been training to kill for a couple episodes, in the same way that bodie is killed, that often wears a hood and uses it as a prop... especially compared to o-dog, who, honestly, i do not remember at all
and if my memory is correct, chris only suggests to marlow that michael's first should not be someone he knows. i remember marlow giving an ambiguous response.
Hate to quote myself, but hey, straight from HBO. It was O-Dog.
Quoth the episode guide on HBO.com:
On his corner, Bodie's having a slow night, along with Poot and Spider, who is now working the corner. When Poot alerts him to Chris approaching, Bodie refuses to leave. "This is my corner. I ain' runnin'." He fires at the cars Snoop and Chris are ducking behind, as Poot pleads with him to run. Unable to convince Bodie to flee, Poot finally runs for cover, passing a young hooded boy - O-Dog, one of Snoop and Chris's trainees - who creeps up to Bodie and shoots him in the head.[/b] Bodie falls to the ground and is finished with a second shot to the head. He lays there dead, as O-Dog jogs off to join his mentors.
dollar_binI heartily endorse this product and/or event 2,326 Posts
the way they set it up, imo, clearly leads the viewer to think it would be michael.. a character they have been training to kill for a couple episodes, in the same way that bodie is killed, that often wears a hood and uses it as a prop... especially compared to o-dog, who, honestly, i do not remember at all
and if my memory is correct, chris only suggests to marlow that michael's first should not be someone he knows. i remember marlow giving an ambiguous response.
This is a prime example of what makes the Wire a great show--standard fare would spoon feed you the identity of the shooter. All I can say is that in episode 45 you see O-Dog is one of the kids Chris is also training to take a head shot and all that.
The Wire And All The Pieces Matter: 5 Years of Music from The Wire CD
"This America, man." - Interlude Way Down In The Hole - Blind Boys Of Alabama "Why would anyone ever wanna leave Baltimore?" - Interlude Oh My God - Michael Franti & Spearhead Dance My Pain Away - Rod Lee My Life Extra - DJ Technics "The king stay the king." - Interlude Way Down In The Hole - The Neville Brothers "We used to make s*** in this country." - Interlude Sixteen Tons - The Nighthawks Assume The Position - Lafayette Gilchrist "Waht the f*** did I do?" - Interlude Step By Step - Jesse Winchester Walk On Gilded Splinters - Paul Weller Fast Train - Solomon Burke The Body Of An American - The Pogues "All the pieces matter." - Interlude Efuge Efuge - Stelios Kazantzidis "Omar comin'!" - Interlude Way Down In The Hole - Domaje "If it's a lie, then we fight on that lie." - Interlude Projects - Tyree Colion "Later for that gangsta bulls***." - Interlude Ayo - Bossman Analyze - Sharpshooters "Wars end." - Interlude Unfriendly Game - Masta Ace - featuring: Stricklin What You Know About Baltimore - Ogun - featuring: Phathead Jail Flick - Diablo The Life, The Hood, The Streetz - Mullyman "An act of daily journalism." - Interlude I Feel Alright - Steve Earle Way Down In The Hole - Tom Waits "You remember that one day summer past?" - Interlude The Fall - Blake Leyh
mcnulty's got it worse now than ever before. the system is truly breaking him down. i don't think his tampering with the crime scene is an attempt to funnel more resources to the police department though, as someone suggested. i think he's getting desperate and frustrated and this is his way of selfishly lashing out. its like he's pulling a prank. that scene, especially bunk's awkward reaction, felt very uncomfortable to me. all of the characters are having a rough time at it right now. bubbles, the whole police force, michael, the mayor. you know its a dismal time when marlo's the only one that's doing well. freamon seems pretty happy to be building a case against the money. avon's surprise appearance at the jail was ill. i agree with rootless' criticism about the newsroom and it gives me heavy boots.
these separate threads are killing what could be great wire chat everybody's just talking bout hbo this, on demand that
mcnulty's got it worse now than ever before. the system is truly breaking him down. i don't think his tampering with the crime scene is an attempt to funnel more resources to the police department though, as someone suggested. i think he's getting desperate and frustrated and this is his way of selfishly lashing out. its like he's pulling a prank. that scene, especially bunk's awkward reaction, felt very uncomfortable to me. all of the characters are having a rough time at it right now. bubbles, the whole police force, michael, the mayor. you know its a dismal time when marlo's the only one that's doing well. freamon seems pretty happy to be building a case against the money. avon's surprise appearance at the jail was ill. i agree with rootless' criticism about the newsroom and it gives me heavy boots.
these separate threads are killing what could be great wire chat everybody's just talking bout hbo this, on demand that
I felt like they have given Bubs a bit too much screen time in these first two episodes. It felt like the show just stopped when he was on screen (saying absolutely nothing, I might add), and time was just going by while we could be seeing something else that mattered a little more. I know Bubs' story is one of great importance to the show, but I think his situation could have been given less screen time for the same effect, especially in such a short season.
As for McNulty, didn't he specifically say at the end of that scene that the city would have to investigate it if it was a murder? It seemed to me that what he said could only imply that he was trying to force the murder issue to get somebody to put them back on Marlo and the 22 murders. Why would he do it just as a prank? That doesn't make sesne to me. It was well thought out as earlier in the episode he learns that you can still bruise a body post-mordem if you do it soon enough. I just don't see that as something he'd do just to piss somebody off. I totally agree about the scene being uncomfortable though. It's rare to see Bunk so shook/serious with McNulty. As if he saw McNulty go right off the deep end just then.
The scenes in jail with Avon were good, but it made me think back, who the hell does Avon have working for him on the outside anymore? Sis? Slim Charles? How does Avon stay in the deal once Marlo makes the connection past Serge with The Greek? Seems like he doesn't matter after that.
mcnulty's got it worse now than ever before. the system is truly breaking him down. i don't think his tampering with the crime scene is an attempt to funnel more resources to the police department though, as someone suggested. i think he's getting desperate and frustrated and this is his way of selfishly lashing out. its like he's pulling a prank. that scene, especially bunk's awkward reaction, felt very uncomfortable to me. all of the characters are having a rough time at it right now. bubbles, the whole police force, michael, the mayor. you know its a dismal time when marlo's the only one that's doing well. freamon seems pretty happy to be building a case against the money. avon's surprise appearance at the jail was ill. i agree with rootless' criticism about the newsroom and it gives me heavy boots.
these separate threads are killing what could be great wire chat everybody's just talking bout hbo this, on demand that
I agree with Mandrew -- these separate threads are confusing and discourage substantive discussions about the episodes themselves.
Okay, here are my thoughts:
I thought Ep 52 was one of the weakest episodes in this great series. Perhaps my expectations were too high but the ???showdown??? between Avon and Marlo was not just underwhelming, but far-fetched. I understand Avon???s sentiment that ???Wesside N***a???s need to stay together??? and his concern over Prop Joe???s East-side dominated Co-op, but he???s got too much bad history with Marlo to do ???bidness??? with him. Perhaps Avon is resigned to fact that he???ll be in prison for awhile and wants to still be a force in the game, but nonetheless I felt like the scene was forced. However, loved how Avon threw up the ???W??? and how Marlo said ???the game is the same as it ever was??? or some shit like that.
Also, I don???t know how it will pan out, but I can???t believe the Greek (or more specifically, Davondas) will actually do business with Marlo and cut out Prop Joe. Davondas strikes me as an old-school gangster who respects loyalty above all. I don???t think he???ll appreciate the young upstart Marlo trying to shake things up. But we???ll have to wait and see.
Even more unbelievable is McNulty???s descent into the depths of hell ??? not only is he a degenerate drunk and womanizer, we learn that he???s tampering with evidence (murder evidence no less) to create the impression of serial murders. We all knew McNulty was going to hit rock bottom, but for him to become totally corrupt and a criminal (as Bunk calls him in the preview for Ep. 53) ??? sorry David Simon, you didn???t sell me on that one! And remember, McNulty has always prided himself as being ???real Poleece,??? so his total corruption in just the second episode of the season was totally rushed and unbelievable. Before the season, I read somewhere that there would be a shocking deus ex machina in one of the episodes ??? I really hope this is it because I don???t think the Wire, with its emphasis on being a ???true??? representation of Baltimore and the streets, can take any more of these crazy plot-devices. One saving grace about the scene where he tampers with the evidence is Bunk???s shocked expression. Bunk has always been the moral beacon of the show and the actor who plays him deserves major accolades.
Glad to see Michael isn???t just an unquestioning killing machine. We???ll see if he actually turns his back from the darkside though.
Agree with mandrew and rootlesscoz that the Newsroom scenes so far have been wack and slow. I do like the editor Augustus and hope he serves up the Steven Glass wannabee for falsifying stories.
mcnulty's got it worse now than ever before. the system is truly breaking him down. i don't think his tampering with the crime scene is an attempt to funnel more resources to the police department though, as someone suggested. i think he's getting desperate and frustrated and this is his way of selfishly lashing out. its like he's pulling a prank. that scene, especially bunk's awkward reaction, felt very uncomfortable to me. all of the characters are having a rough time at it right now. bubbles, the whole police force, michael, the mayor. you know its a dismal time when marlo's the only one that's doing well. freamon seems pretty happy to be building a case against the money. avon's surprise appearance at the jail was ill. i agree with rootless' criticism about the newsroom and it gives me heavy boots.
these separate threads are killing what could be great wire chat everybody's just talking bout hbo this, on demand that
I agree with Mandrew -- these separate threads are confusing and discourage substantive discussions about the episodes themselves.
You'd rather all of these privelaged on-demand viewers spoil each episode for the rest of us?
dollar_binI heartily endorse this product and/or event 2,326 Posts
i agree with rootless' criticism about the newsroom and it gives me heavy boots.
I felt like they have given Bubs a bit too much screen time in these first two episodes. It felt like the show just stopped when he was on screen (saying absolutely nothing, I might add), and time was just going by while we could be seeing something else that mattered a little more. I know Bubs' story is one of great importance to the show, but I think his situation could have been given less screen time for the same effect, especially in such a short season.
I have to respectfully disagree about the criticism regarding the pace in season 5, particularly in regards to the Bubs and Newsroom story-line. In addition to the compelling characters, sharp dialog, and fascinating subject matter, the thing that makes the Wire really work for me is the novelistic pacing. This is really what sets the Wire apart from just about every other television show ever made.
Bubbles is facing a huge choice on what direction his life will take. I think spending time with him learning what the texture of his post-drug life is like will be valuable in understanding what choice he makes down the line. The truth is, his life after drugs is seemingly pointless and dull, and for all the bad that it did for him chasing the high really gave him a purpose. That said, Steve Earle as Waylon has kinda creeped me out ever since season 2.
Moving on to the Newsroom scenes, I'm willing to trust the Wire to develop a story-line so that early scenes that are confusing at first will take on new meaning in light of later events. There seems to be a lot going on, and the actors are not constantly commenting about what they're doing so it's just not apparent what is really happening. For most of the scenes at the Sun, particularly in episode 51, I'm spending so much time trying to decipher the newsroom lingo and getting involved in the world that I haven't really noticed that much whether the acting is good or not. It may not be, but that's not really what I care about, so it gets a pass from me.
I am digging the newsroom angle, personally. Don't quite understand the hatt. Gus is the dude. Although it is rather transparent I can dig the idea of a meta-critique that ties together the other 4 seasons. Young dudes making shit up vs seasoned pros relying on hard-honed game... dunno, sounds like the theme of this series from get-go.
Roger Twigg is a great character... I hope he doesn't go away too soon.
What is so unrealistic about McNulty's demise? Great cops, "real po-lice" fall every damn day fighting what they think is the good fight.
More to the point, I agree with Mandrew that the overall idea is that EVERYTHING is falling apart - the police, even the good ones, the politicians (notice Norman is barely able to contain his contempt at this point... Carcetti's Dem Party handler is calling most of the shots now), the drug game... and as you will see in 53 it's not just the youngins that are having second thoughts. Schitt cooketh.
And lastly... NERESE CAN GET IT!!!
I can't shake a feeling of being underwhelmed by the season so far but, having seen 53, I see the build going on... and I'm not so quick to cast off the newsroom angle because I recall a lot of folks groaning about Season 2 the same way... and honestly that might be my 2nd favorite season behind 4. Also we are all chomping at the bit because this is a short season and it's the final one, but there were certainly slow episodes in other seasons... let's try to be a little less judgemental at first viewing.
The truth is that Baltimore isn't just full of vacants and addicts, gangsters and cops... there are regular joes and businesses and decent neighborhoods and (gasp!) white folks who might be less interesting on television than somebody like Michael or Avon but nonetheless important to the overall portrayal. I think we at least owe it to Simon and crew to hear them out even if, as I said above, the angle is a bit transparent.
As for McNulty, didn't he specifically say at the end of that scene that the city would have to investigate it if it was a murder? It seemed to me that what he said could only imply that he was trying to force the murder issue to get somebody to put them back on Marlo and the 22 murders. Why would he do it just as a prank? That doesn't make sesne to me. It was well thought out as earlier in the episode he learns that you can still bruise a body post-mordem if you do it soon enough. I just don't see that as something he'd do just to piss somebody off. I totally agree about the scene being uncomfortable though. It's rare to see Bunk so shook/serious with McNulty. As if he saw McNulty go right off the deep end just then.
The point of McNulty changing up the body to make it look like a murder was that the guy was white. They were talking earlier that the people in charge only give a fuck if white people get killed, so he's trying to play that through.
Comments
Right and if you watch the episode again, you'll notice the shooter (hoodie notwithstanding) is clearly not Michael.
the way they set it up, imo, clearly leads the viewer to think it would be michael.. a character they have been training to kill for a couple episodes, in the same way that bodie is killed, that often wears a hood and uses it as a prop... especially compared to o-dog, who, honestly, i do not remember at all
and if my memory is correct, chris only suggests to marlow that michael's first should not be someone he knows. i remember marlow giving an ambiguous response.
This is a prime example of what makes the Wire a great show--standard fare would spoon feed you the identity of the shooter. All I can say is that in episode 45 you see O-Dog is one of the kids Chris is also training to take a head shot and all that.
That is all.
Oh yeah, that's why I watch the Wire...FOR THE ACTING.
I bet you want to "evacuate" dat ass.
Yup, but only in the other thread.
And All The Pieces Matter: 5 Years of Music from The Wire CD
"This America, man." - Interlude
Way Down In The Hole
- Blind Boys Of Alabama
"Why would anyone ever wanna leave Baltimore?" - Interlude
Oh My God
- Michael Franti & Spearhead
Dance My Pain Away
- Rod Lee
My Life Extra
- DJ Technics
"The king stay the king." - Interlude
Way Down In The Hole
- The Neville Brothers
"We used to make s*** in this country." - Interlude
Sixteen Tons
- The Nighthawks
Assume The Position
- Lafayette Gilchrist
"Waht the f*** did I do?" - Interlude
Step By Step
- Jesse Winchester
Walk On Gilded Splinters
- Paul Weller
Fast Train
- Solomon Burke
The Body Of An American
- The Pogues
"All the pieces matter." - Interlude
Efuge Efuge
- Stelios Kazantzidis
"Omar comin'!" - Interlude
Way Down In The Hole
- Domaje
"If it's a lie, then we fight on that lie." - Interlude
Projects
- Tyree Colion
"Later for that gangsta bulls***." - Interlude
Ayo
- Bossman
Analyze
- Sharpshooters
"Wars end." - Interlude
Unfriendly Game
- Masta Ace
- featuring: Stricklin
What You Know About Baltimore
- Ogun
- featuring: Phathead
Jail Flick
- Diablo
The Life, The Hood, The Streetz
- Mullyman
"An act of daily journalism." - Interlude
I Feel Alright
- Steve Earle
Way Down In The Hole
- Tom Waits
"You remember that one day summer past?" - Interlude
The Fall
- Blake Leyh
My man!
yall talking abou tthis?
sabotka RIP
and cosign on move on up scene
no doubt.
every season so far has had moving ending sequences.
Why is it not on demand? Is everyone having this problem?
Eps 51 & 52 took longer though
Now plaese take all discussion of ep 53 to the spoilers thread!
mcnulty's got it worse now than ever before. the system is truly breaking him down. i don't think his tampering with the crime scene is an attempt to funnel more resources to the police department though, as someone suggested. i think he's getting desperate and frustrated and this is his way of selfishly lashing out. its like he's pulling a prank. that scene, especially bunk's awkward reaction, felt very uncomfortable to me.
all of the characters are having a rough time at it right now. bubbles, the whole police force, michael, the mayor. you know its a dismal time when marlo's the only one that's doing well. freamon seems pretty happy to be building a case against the money.
avon's surprise appearance at the jail was ill.
i agree with rootless' criticism about the newsroom and it gives me heavy boots.
these separate threads are killing what could be great wire chat
everybody's just talking bout hbo this, on demand that
I felt like they have given Bubs a bit too much screen time in these first two episodes. It felt like the show just stopped when he was on screen (saying absolutely nothing, I might add), and time was just going by while we could be seeing something else that mattered a little more. I know Bubs' story is one of great importance to the show, but I think his situation could have been given less screen time for the same effect, especially in such a short season.
As for McNulty, didn't he specifically say at the end of that scene that the city would have to investigate it if it was a murder? It seemed to me that what he said could only imply that he was trying to force the murder issue to get somebody to put them back on Marlo and the 22 murders. Why would he do it just as a prank? That doesn't make sesne to me. It was well thought out as earlier in the episode he learns that you can still bruise a body post-mordem if you do it soon enough. I just don't see that as something he'd do just to piss somebody off. I totally agree about the scene being uncomfortable though. It's rare to see Bunk so shook/serious with McNulty. As if he saw McNulty go right off the deep end just then.
The scenes in jail with Avon were good, but it made me think back, who the hell does Avon have working for him on the outside anymore? Sis? Slim Charles? How does Avon stay in the deal once Marlo makes the connection past Serge with The Greek? Seems like he doesn't matter after that.
I agree with Mandrew -- these separate threads are confusing and discourage substantive discussions about the episodes themselves.
Okay, here are my thoughts:
I thought Ep 52 was one of the weakest episodes in this great series. Perhaps my expectations were too high but the ???showdown??? between Avon and Marlo was not just underwhelming, but far-fetched. I understand Avon???s sentiment that ???Wesside N***a???s need to stay together??? and his concern over Prop Joe???s East-side dominated Co-op, but he???s got too much bad history with Marlo to do ???bidness??? with him. Perhaps Avon is resigned to fact that he???ll be in prison for awhile and wants to still be a force in the game, but nonetheless I felt like the scene was forced. However, loved how Avon threw up the ???W??? and how Marlo said ???the game is the same as it ever was??? or some shit like that.
Also, I don???t know how it will pan out, but I can???t believe the Greek (or more specifically, Davondas) will actually do business with Marlo and cut out Prop Joe. Davondas strikes me as an old-school gangster who respects loyalty above all. I don???t think he???ll appreciate the young upstart Marlo trying to shake things up. But we???ll have to wait and see.
Even more unbelievable is McNulty???s descent into the depths of hell ??? not only is he a degenerate drunk and womanizer, we learn that he???s tampering with evidence (murder evidence no less) to create the impression of serial murders. We all knew McNulty was going to hit rock bottom, but for him to become totally corrupt and a criminal (as Bunk calls him in the preview for Ep. 53) ??? sorry David Simon, you didn???t sell me on that one! And remember, McNulty has always prided himself as being ???real Poleece,??? so his total corruption in just the second episode of the season was totally rushed and unbelievable. Before the season, I read somewhere that there would be a shocking deus ex machina in one of the episodes ??? I really hope this is it because I don???t think the Wire, with its emphasis on being a ???true??? representation of Baltimore and the streets, can take any more of these crazy plot-devices. One saving grace about the scene where he tampers with the evidence is Bunk???s shocked expression. Bunk has always been the moral beacon of the show and the actor who plays him deserves major accolades.
Glad to see Michael isn???t just an unquestioning killing machine. We???ll see if he actually turns his back from the darkside though.
Agree with mandrew and rootlesscoz that the Newsroom scenes so far have been wack and slow. I do like the editor Augustus and hope he serves up the Steven Glass wannabee for falsifying stories.
You'd rather all of these privelaged on-demand viewers spoil each episode for the rest of us?
I have to respectfully disagree about the criticism regarding the pace in season 5, particularly in regards to the Bubs and Newsroom story-line. In addition to the compelling characters, sharp dialog, and fascinating subject matter, the thing that makes the Wire really work for me is the novelistic pacing. This is really what sets the Wire apart from just about every other television show ever made.
Bubbles is facing a huge choice on what direction his life will take. I think spending time with him learning what the texture of his post-drug life is like will be valuable in understanding what choice he makes down the line. The truth is, his life after drugs is seemingly pointless and dull, and for all the bad that it did for him chasing the high really gave him a purpose. That said, Steve Earle as Waylon has kinda creeped me out ever since season 2.
Moving on to the Newsroom scenes, I'm willing to trust the Wire to develop a story-line so that early scenes that are confusing at first will take on new meaning in light of later events. There seems to be a lot going on, and the actors are not constantly commenting about what they're doing so it's just not apparent what is really happening. For most of the scenes at the Sun, particularly in episode 51, I'm spending so much time trying to decipher the newsroom lingo and getting involved in the world that I haven't really noticed that much whether the acting is good or not. It may not be, but that's not really what I care about, so it gets a pass from me.
Unspoiled...
I am digging the newsroom angle, personally. Don't quite understand the hatt. Gus is the dude. Although it is rather transparent I can dig the idea of a meta-critique that ties together the other 4 seasons. Young dudes making shit up vs seasoned pros relying on hard-honed game... dunno, sounds like the theme of this series from get-go.
Roger Twigg is a great character... I hope he doesn't go away too soon.
What is so unrealistic about McNulty's demise? Great cops, "real po-lice" fall every damn day fighting what they think is the good fight.
More to the point, I agree with Mandrew that the overall idea is that EVERYTHING is falling apart - the police, even the good ones, the politicians (notice Norman is barely able to contain his contempt at this point... Carcetti's Dem Party handler is calling most of the shots now), the drug game... and as you will see in 53 it's not just the youngins that are having second thoughts. Schitt cooketh.
And lastly... NERESE CAN GET IT!!!
I can't shake a feeling of being underwhelmed by the season so far but, having seen 53, I see the build going on... and I'm not so quick to cast off the newsroom angle because I recall a lot of folks groaning about Season 2 the same way... and honestly that might be my 2nd favorite season behind 4. Also we are all chomping at the bit because this is a short season and it's the final one, but there were certainly slow episodes in other seasons... let's try to be a little less judgemental at first viewing.
The truth is that Baltimore isn't just full of vacants and addicts, gangsters and cops... there are regular joes and businesses and decent neighborhoods and (gasp!) white folks who might be less interesting on television than somebody like Michael or Avon but nonetheless important to the overall portrayal. I think we at least owe it to Simon and crew to hear them out even if, as I said above, the angle is a bit transparent.
The point of McNulty changing up the body to make it look like a murder was that the guy was white. They were talking earlier that the people in charge only give a fuck if white people get killed, so he's trying to play that through.