Where I grew up, kids got in fights - I can't count the amount of brawls that occurred over racial issues. White kids got jumped, Mexicans beat up Blacks, Black kids got jumped at white parties, racist slogans were scrawled on lockers... Usually people got suspended, or occasionally processed through the system with some schitt that would come off the record at 18 barring any other criminal activity.
The idea that these kids should be imprisoned or charged with any kind of felony is ludicrous.
Some of you guys sound like you got beat up in high school.
I think a DA threatening children's lives for sitting under a tree is much more of a crime than a school fight between kids. This is fucking disgusting. The fact that one can even think about what kind of punishment is suitable for a school fight while local officals are threatening fucking kids[/b] is INSANE[/b].
The DA wrote an OP-ED piece in today's nyt. Here is his defense:
1) The kid who got attacked had nothing to do with the noose.
2) ^ He was walking through the gym and got sucker punched. After he was on the ground, six kids began stomping on him and only stopped after a teacher intervened.
3) Based on what happened, the DA did not see this as a normal streetfight, but a random act of violence. How this translates into an attempted murder charge is definitely a stretch. Also, charging the kids as adults was also discretionary.
4) The DA claims that he researched thoroughly whether he could charge the white kids who hung the noose with any crimes, but could not find any. He also claims federal prosecutors did the same but that there is no federal hate crime law. I call bullshit on this because in any state there are hundreds of obscure criminal statutes.
Anyway, imo, assuming what he says about the first point is correct (the white kid had nothing to do with the noose), i agree that the noose issue is only relative due to selective prosecution. When someone engages in a premeditated mob-like attack, its hard to justify it as being in the heat of the moment, or related to some unrelated incident (considering this kid wasn't even involved with the noose incident).
How kids should be punished for fights that occur at school is debatable.
Why does it matter that it occurred at school? Especially at a PUBLIC school? You don't magically rise above the law when you step on school grounds. WTF.
No, but as people have pointed out, fights happen at school. If it doesn't involve weapons (not shoes), murder, or rape, then things are pretty much kid shit that's going to happen. It needs to be handled by the school authorities. That's one thing that failed here. The school did not properly handle the original incident, with the nooses hanging from the tree.
so what would happen if 6 white students beat up a black student? they probably would have gotten suspended from school and slapped on the wrist. so the same should happen to these kids.
you're looking at it backwards...this is my problem with all of this. Instead of calling for equal punishment for white kids, you just want everyone to get off scott free? That doesn't make sense to me.
You're absolutely right, my example was a bad argument. But think of it this way. What if it were 6 (white) football players who beat up the nerdy (white) math team kid? What would happen to them? In this case, though, these kids were even PROVOKED with what was a threat of violence on them. That's what those nooses SHOULD have been viewed as by the school - a threat of violence. But it was called a "prank" and the fingers basically got pointed at the black kids. Then this white kid comes along and talks shit after already having provoked these other kids with racist-backed violence. That's the situation. It's not even comparable to the 6 jock bullys beating up the nerd.
When I think about it, it's so fucking ridiculous. Yes, the kids should get slapped on the wrist. The DA and school authorities should pay the price for this.
The DA wrote an OP-ED piece in today's nyt. Here is his defense:
1) The kid who got attacked had nothing to do with the noose.
2) ^ He was walking through the gym and got sucker punched. After he was on the ground, six kids began stomping on him and only stopped after a teacher intervened.
3) Based on what happened, the DA did not see this as a normal streetfight, but a random act of violence. How this translates into an attempted murder charge is definitely a stretch. Also, charging the kids as adults was also discretionary.
4) The DA claims that he researched thoroughly whether he could charge the white kids who hung the noose with any crimes, but could not find any. He also claims federal prosecutors did the same but that there is no federal hate crime law. I call bullshit on this because in any state there are hundreds of obscure criminal statutes.
Anyway, imo, assuming what he says about the first point is correct (the white kid had nothing to do with the noose), i agree that the noose issue is only relative due to selective prosecution. When someone engages in a premeditated mob-like attack, its hard to justify it as being in the heat of the moment, or related to some unrelated incident (considering this kid wasn't even involved with the noose incident).
assuming you are responding to me, this has nothing to do with what I am talking about...if it is true that the DA told the kids, "I can take away your life with the stroke of a pen" BEFORE the fight/sucker punch/whatever...then this needs to be seriously looked into...that is some FUCKED up stuff that should have the DA's charges against the defendents dropped...obviously this man has no place in making decisions for ANYONE.
The DA wrote an OP-ED piece in today's nyt. Here is his defense:
1) The kid who got attacked had nothing to do with the noose.
2) ^ He was walking through the gym and got sucker punched. After he was on the ground, six kids began stomping on him and only stopped after a teacher intervened.
3) Based on what happened, the DA did not see this as a normal streetfight, but a random act of violence. How this translates into an attempted murder charge is definitely a stretch. Also, charging the kids as adults was also discretionary.
4) The DA claims that he researched thoroughly whether he could charge the white kids who hung the noose with any crimes, but could not find any. He also claims federal prosecutors did the same but that there is no federal hate crime law. I call bullshit on this because in any state there are hundreds of obscure criminal statutes.
Anyway, imo, assuming what he says about the first point is correct (the white kid had nothing to do with the noose), i agree that the noose issue is only relative due to selective prosecution. When someone engages in a premeditated mob-like attack, its hard to justify it as being in the heat of the moment, or related to some unrelated incident (considering this kid wasn't even involved with the noose incident).
Here are a couple more facts to add to the above.....
The attacked student was beat unconscious.
I'm not sure how you define attempted murder, but if the kid had died, it definitely would have been murder.
Just how badly does someone need to be beat before it's considered attempted murder?? Maybe one of the lawyers here can shed some light on that question??
At least some of the Jena 6 were involved in not one, not two, but three different physical altercations in the week leading up to the beating of the student for which they are charged.
Of the Jena 6, four of them WERE adults so questioning whether or not they should be charged as adults is moot.
I can remember a bunch of folks here screaming that the Duke Lacrosse Boys should be locked up and the key tossed long before we knew all the facts.
Sometimes the story we hear and the truth can be two different things....from ALL angles.
The DA wrote an OP-ED piece in today's nyt. Here is his defense:
1) The kid who got attacked had nothing to do with the noose.
2) ^ He was walking through the gym and got sucker punched. After he was on the ground, six kids began stomping on him and only stopped after a teacher intervened.
3) Based on what happened, the DA did not see this as a normal streetfight, but a random act of violence. How this translates into an attempted murder charge is definitely a stretch. Also, charging the kids as adults was also discretionary.
4) The DA claims that he researched thoroughly whether he could charge the white kids who hung the noose with any crimes, but could not find any. He also claims federal prosecutors did the same but that there is no federal hate crime law. I call bullshit on this because in any state there are hundreds of obscure criminal statutes.
Anyway, imo, assuming what he says about the first point is correct (the white kid had nothing to do with the noose), i agree that the noose issue is only relative due to selective prosecution. When someone engages in a premeditated mob-like attack, its hard to justify it as being in the heat of the moment, or related to some unrelated incident (considering this kid wasn't even involved with the noose incident).
Here are a couple more facts to add to the above.....
The attacked student was beat unconscious.
I'm not sure how you define attempted murder, but if the kid had died, it definitely would have been murder.
Yeah, the kid was beaten SO severely he went to his little football banquet thingy that night...
and as far as "if he had died", that hypothetical outcome shouldnt be used in the decision of drawing up the charges, as it is didnt happen, nor did the situation even come close to that considering someone beaten with in an inch of their life does not go to a banquet a few hours later...
no one is addressing the scumbag DA and his threatening children's lives for sitting under a tree...how come this isnt an issue in the validity of this man's decision making?
The DA wrote an OP-ED piece in today's nyt. Here is his defense:
1) The kid who got attacked had nothing to do with the noose.
2) ^ He was walking through the gym and got sucker punched. After he was on the ground, six kids began stomping on him and only stopped after a teacher intervened.
3) Based on what happened, the DA did not see this as a normal streetfight, but a random act of violence. How this translates into an attempted murder charge is definitely a stretch. Also, charging the kids as adults was also discretionary.
4) The DA claims that he researched thoroughly whether he could charge the white kids who hung the noose with any crimes, but could not find any. He also claims federal prosecutors did the same but that there is no federal hate crime law. I call bullshit on this because in any state there are hundreds of obscure criminal statutes.
Anyway, imo, assuming what he says about the first point is correct (the white kid had nothing to do with the noose), i agree that the noose issue is only relative due to selective prosecution. When someone engages in a premeditated mob-like attack, its hard to justify it as being in the heat of the moment, or related to some unrelated incident (considering this kid wasn't even involved with the noose incident).
This is the first time I've heard that the kid had nothing to do with the noose. I did read that the kid was shooting some racist remarks, though, and this is what provoked the attack.
But still, like Hookup said, there are still other issues at hand.
At least some of the Jena 6 were involved in not one, not two, but three different physical altercations in the week leading up to the beating of the student for which they are charged.
And? From what I understand most of those fights stemmed from a confrontation at a party between some of the 6 and a particular group of white kids, and they continued to have problems when they saw each other. Including the incident where one of the kids pulled out a shotgun and had it wrestled away from him.
"Bailey was charged with three counts: theft of a firearm, second-degree robbery, and disturbing the peace. The white student who produced the weapon was not charged"[/b]
Does that sound "fair" to you?
I'd like to add from what I read, the other kid was beaten so badly he was seen at a party later that night. Doesn't sound like he was on the verge of death to me.
Racial tension was extremely high and shit happens. Fights happen. Like Paycheck said, this shit goes on EVERYWHERE. But facing 22 years in prison for a fight is completely fucked. I don't know what there is to argue about all this.
Fights happen. Like Paycheck said, this shit goes on EVERYWHERE. But facing 22 years in prison for a fight is completely fucked. I don't know what there is to argue about all this.
You evidently don't live in the Rock-a-Logic world where anything that might lead to death is attempted murder.
God help anyone who gets into a fender-bender with him.
even assuming all the facts espoused by the DA are true, i don't think the charges fit the crime....however, is it a "fight" when 6 dudes jump 1 guy? to me, that sounds more like a premeditated attack/beating; def not attempted murder, but not really a fight either.
even assuming all the facts espoused by the DA are true, i don't think the charges fit the crime....however, is it a "fight" when 6 dudes jump 1 guy? to me, that sounds more like a premeditated attack/beating; def not attempted murder, but not really a fight either.
We're not talking about Reginald Denny either though.
it depends on what the facts ACTUALLY are. if you go by the DA's story, their actions almost seem worse than the Reginald Denny incident. in that situation, there is less premeditation, or at least one could argue that what started out as a protest (liberally speaking), got wayyy out of hand. here, per the DA's facts, the Jena 6 picked some random white kid to brutally attack...and "attempt to murder".
You're right: the DA fails to address the fight from the party the night before and the ensuing racial slurs at school- he's not presenting all of the facts. The thing that really kills me about the editorial is the self-victimization he attempts with the "I'm only trying to interpret the state law here. Everybody's trying to make it seem like I have no options outside of attempted murder with which to charge these kids. I'm just doing my job here..." bullshit.
it depends on what the facts ACTUALLY are. if you go by the DA's story, their actions almost seem worse than the Reginald Denny incident. in that situation, there is less premeditation, or at least one could argue that what started out as a protest (liberally speaking), got wayyy out of hand. here, per the DA's facts, the Jena 6 picked some random white kid to brutally attack...and "attempt to murder".
I HIGHLY doubt it was some "random white kid". I would bet that dude had been running his mouth and it finally caught up to him. Other people saw it and were like "that's that motherfucker" and jumped in. I'm not saying it's right by any means, but dude probably had a beatdown coming.
I don't think you guys are putting yourselves in the perspective of what led up to all this.
Where I grew up, kids got in fights - I can't count the amount of brawls that occurred over racial issues. White kids got jumped, Mexicans beat up Blacks, Black kids got jumped at white parties, racist slogans were scrawled on lockers... Usually people got suspended, or occasionally processed through the system with some schitt that would come off the record at 18 barring any other criminal activity.
The idea that these kids should be imprisoned or charged with any kind of felony is ludicrous.
Some of you guys sound like you got beat up in high school.
it depends on what the facts ACTUALLY are. if you go by the DA's story, their actions almost seem worse than the Reginald Denny incident. in that situation, there is less premeditation, or at least one could argue that what started out as a protest (liberally speaking), got wayyy out of hand. here, per the DA's facts, the Jena 6 picked some random white kid to brutally attack...and "attempt to murder".
I HIGHLY doubt it was some "random white kid". I would bet that dude had been running his mouth and it finally caught up to him. Other people saw it and were like "that's that motherfucker" and jumped in. I'm not saying it's right by any means, but dude probably had a beatdown coming.
I don't think you guys are putting yourselves in the perspective of what led up to all this.
Exactly. I also don't understand why people are giving the DA any credability when he had threatened the kids when they took non-violent action in protest.
I just read the DA's OP-ed piece and it makes me want to vomit. The whole thing is a dishonest backhanded insult to the protesters and a sorry excuse for his racist decisions.
I'm rather amazed that hanging nooses wouldn't qualify as some kind of hate crime violation, at least on par with sticking a burning cross on someone's law.
However, in this case, the school could have taken more punitive action even if the DA didn't have, as he argues, the legal right to do anything.
And of course, his op-ed didn't address his own "abhorrent" and "stupid" comments to the Black students after the noose incident.
does anyone in this thread defending the 6 think that any of these kids should have some sort of punishment? If so what do you think the punishment should be? If not why don't they?
The Jena Times inserts quite a bit of, um, editorial shine in places, but it's still a good way to get a sense of how stuff unfolded. The Times really wants to put the blame of the overall affair on the media. They also seem quite adamant about defending the nooses as a "prank" rather than a "racially motivated" gesture though, for the life of me, I really can't imagine how one could arrive at this conclusion.
Where I grew up, kids got in fights - I can't count the amount of brawls that occurred over racial issues. White kids got jumped, Mexicans beat up Blacks, Black kids got jumped at white parties, racist slogans were scrawled on lockers... Usually people got suspended, or occasionally processed through the system with some schitt that would come off the record at 18 barring any other criminal activity.
The idea that these kids should be imprisoned or charged with any kind of felony is ludicrous.
Some of you guys sound like you got beat up in high school.
Agreed.
Anyone see the Norfolk video?
I grew up in a fucked up neighborhood where fights would pop off all the time. I got into countless scraps as I was coming up and was almost jumped a couple of times.
The Norfolk video is fucked up shit and straight racist. I don't need to see video of the Jena 6 kid to know he got beat up pretty badly too. The problem that I have with this is the multiple attackers on one person. That's some coward shit. You have a problem with someone running their mouth or whatever, cool... settle that shit one on one, hand to hand. Not gang up on a fool to stomp the living shit outta him. Based on that, I think they should prosecute all 6 of those punks. Now, having said that, I'm sure there's more to this story as well and it's not as one-sided as it's being presented. But, show me the black kid that got jumped and beat down by 6 white kids and I can see the cause for retaliation.
The white establishment of Jena is lucky their fucking town wasnt burned to the ground...fuck a DA telling kids "I can end your life with a stroke of a pen"...and fuck ANY decision this guy makes, he isnt fit to make life altering decisions if this is the way he handles his office.
does anyone in this thread defending the 6 think that any of these kids should have some sort of punishment? If so what do you think the punishment should be? If not why don't they?
Comments
The idea that these kids should be imprisoned or charged with any kind of felony is ludicrous.
Some of you guys sound like you got beat up in high school.
This whole trial is so damn sad to me. Race relations in this country are STILL severely effed and it doesn't feel like it's getting any better.
blah.
-e
1) The kid who got attacked had nothing to do with the noose.
2) ^ He was walking through the gym and got sucker punched. After he was on the ground, six kids began stomping on him and only stopped after a teacher intervened.
3) Based on what happened, the DA did not see this as a normal streetfight, but a random act of violence. How this translates into an attempted murder charge is definitely a stretch. Also, charging the kids as adults was also discretionary.
4) The DA claims that he researched thoroughly whether he could charge the white kids who hung the noose with any crimes, but could not find any. He also claims federal prosecutors did the same but that there is no federal hate crime law. I call bullshit on this because in any state there are hundreds of obscure criminal statutes.
Anyway, imo, assuming what he says about the first point is correct (the white kid had nothing to do with the noose), i agree that the noose issue is only relative due to selective prosecution. When someone engages in a premeditated mob-like attack, its hard to justify it as being in the heat of the moment, or related to some unrelated incident (considering this kid wasn't even involved with the noose incident).
No, but as people have pointed out, fights happen at school. If it doesn't involve weapons (not shoes), murder, or rape, then things are pretty much kid shit that's going to happen. It needs to be handled by the school authorities. That's one thing that failed here. The school did not properly handle the original incident, with the nooses hanging from the tree.
You're absolutely right, my example was a bad argument. But think of it this way. What if it were 6 (white) football players who beat up the nerdy (white) math team kid? What would happen to them? In this case, though, these kids were even PROVOKED with what was a threat of violence on them. That's what those nooses SHOULD have been viewed as by the school - a threat of violence. But it was called a "prank" and the fingers basically got pointed at the black kids. Then this white kid comes along and talks shit after already having provoked these other kids with racist-backed violence. That's the situation. It's not even comparable to the 6 jock bullys beating up the nerd.
When I think about it, it's so fucking ridiculous. Yes, the kids should get slapped on the wrist. The DA and school authorities should pay the price for this.
assuming you are responding to me, this has nothing to do with what I am talking about...if it is true that the DA told the kids, "I can take away your life with the stroke of a pen" BEFORE the fight/sucker punch/whatever...then this needs to be seriously looked into...that is some FUCKED up stuff that should have the DA's charges against the defendents dropped...obviously this man has no place in making decisions for ANYONE.
Here are a couple more facts to add to the above.....
The attacked student was beat unconscious.
I'm not sure how you define attempted murder, but if the kid had died, it definitely would have been murder.
Just how badly does someone need to be beat before it's considered attempted murder?? Maybe one of the lawyers here can shed some light on that question??
At least some of the Jena 6 were involved in not one, not two, but three different physical altercations in the week leading up to the beating of the student for which they are charged.
Of the Jena 6, four of them WERE adults so questioning whether or not they should be charged as adults is moot.
I can remember a bunch of folks here screaming that the Duke Lacrosse Boys should be locked up and the key tossed long before we knew all the facts.
Sometimes the story we hear and the truth can be two different things....from ALL angles.
Yeah, the kid was beaten SO severely he went to his little football banquet thingy that night...
and as far as "if he had died", that hypothetical outcome shouldnt be used in the decision of drawing up the charges, as it is didnt happen, nor did the situation even come close to that considering someone beaten with in an inch of their life does not go to a banquet a few hours later...
no one is addressing the scumbag DA and his threatening children's lives for sitting under a tree...how come this isnt an issue in the validity of this man's decision making?
Rock-a-logic.
attempted murder means you had the intent to commit murder or cause grievous bodily harm.
In both cases, an overzealous DA railroaded the prosecution.
If anything, the DUke Lacrosse case should make us even more suspect about what happened in Jena.
This is the first time I've heard that the kid had nothing to do with the noose. I did read that the kid was shooting some racist remarks, though, and this is what provoked the attack.
But still, like Hookup said, there are still other issues at hand.
And? From what I understand most of those fights stemmed from a confrontation at a party between some of the 6 and a particular group of white kids, and they continued to have problems when they saw each other. Including the incident where one of the kids pulled out a shotgun and had it wrestled away from him.
"Bailey was charged with three counts: theft of a firearm, second-degree robbery, and disturbing the peace. The white student who produced the weapon was not charged"[/b]
Does that sound "fair" to you?
I'd like to add from what I read, the other kid was beaten so badly he was seen at a party later that night. Doesn't sound like he was on the verge of death to me.
Racial tension was extremely high and shit happens. Fights happen. Like Paycheck said, this shit goes on EVERYWHERE. But facing 22 years in prison for a fight is completely fucked. I don't know what there is to argue about all this.
You evidently don't live in the Rock-a-Logic world where anything that might lead to death is attempted murder.
God help anyone who gets into a fender-bender with him.
We're not talking about Reginald Denny either though.
I HIGHLY doubt it was some "random white kid". I would bet that dude had been running his mouth and it finally caught up to him. Other people saw it and were like "that's that motherfucker" and jumped in. I'm not saying it's right by any means, but dude probably had a beatdown coming.
I don't think you guys are putting yourselves in the perspective of what led up to all this.
Somebody buy this as a title for Rock.
Agreed.
Anyone see the Norfolk video?
Exactly. I also don't understand why people are giving the DA any credability when he had threatened the kids when they took non-violent action in protest.
I just read the DA's OP-ed piece and it makes me want to vomit. The whole thing is a dishonest backhanded insult to the protesters and a sorry excuse for his racist decisions.
NY Times Op-Ed
However, in this case, the school could have taken more punitive action even if the DA didn't have, as he argues, the legal right to do anything.
And of course, his op-ed didn't address his own "abhorrent" and "stupid" comments to the Black students after the noose incident.
http://www.thejenatimes.net/home_page_graphics/home.html
The Jena Times inserts quite a bit of, um, editorial shine in places, but it's still a good way to get a sense of how stuff unfolded. The Times really wants to put the blame of the overall affair on the media. They also seem quite adamant about defending the nooses as a "prank" rather than a "racially motivated" gesture though, for the life of me, I really can't imagine how one could arrive at this conclusion.
I grew up in a fucked up neighborhood where fights would pop off all the time. I got into countless scraps as I was coming up and was almost jumped a couple of times.
The Norfolk video is fucked up shit and straight racist. I don't need to see video of the Jena 6 kid to know he got beat up pretty badly too. The problem that I have with this is the multiple attackers on one person. That's some coward shit. You have a problem with someone running their mouth or whatever, cool... settle that shit one on one, hand to hand. Not gang up on a fool to stomp the living shit outta him. Based on that, I think they should prosecute all 6 of those punks. Now, having said that, I'm sure there's more to this story as well and it's not as one-sided as it's being presented. But, show me the black kid that got jumped and beat down by 6 white kids and I can see the cause for retaliation.
white guilt