but see, what's dumb is that there was already a War vs. Mandrill thread where people spouted off with their uneducated and meaningless internet opinions. THIS thread is ABOUT THE WAX POETICS ARTICLE IN WHICH IT IS CLEARLY EXPLAINED AND DETAILED HOW MANDRILL CHANGED MUSIC, INSPIRED AND ABSOLUTELY NOT ONLY WAR BUT OTHER GREAT R&B ACTS OF THE 70'S. this is critical information for any jonny-come-lately losers who THINK they know the true but can't really EVER know the true because their shallow asses are too damn young to have BEEN AROUND when the schitt was really poppin' off... in that case, the born-too-late-to-know-jack-schitt creeps should shut it and LISTEN to their elders who can school them on the TRUTH instead of acting like they are EXPERTS on things that they are absolutely clueless about. they won't, though, because this is the internet, a.k.a. the xanadu of the witless.
Did you know all of this before reading the article?
I will agree to disagree on Mandrill vs. WAR, but the above along with "Soulful Limb Movements" are two of the best new entries into the internet record vernacular. I tip my eHat, sir.
DocMcCoy"Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,916 Posts
Cymande vs. Osibisa
Just kidding...but I have always wondered why Osibisa gets so little love from strut-types.
Cause they're weak as hell - ESPECIALLY next to Cymande. Name one Osibisa "banger".
I always thought "Music for Gong Gong" was pretty dope. It might sound like afrobeat-lite to some of y'all, but under the right circumstances, this would most definitely bang.
did it occur to anyone that since it is a MANDRILL article, it's MANDRILL'S side of the story? Maybe War wasn't shook at all. Maybe earth wind & fire were just in the back enjoying Mandrill's show right? Just cause they were watching doesn't mean they were biting!!! Right?
Btw... I have the first 4 mandrill lps and only one war lp. I like the mandrill lps better but I can't say I like any one mandrill lp on the whole. Then again I shouldn't even say because I don't listen to old soul lps all the way through. Oh well....
i always thought WAR was much better due to their 'other' recordings. senor soul, three gees puls one, etc. not the WAR ones. plus, as WAR, the wrote and recorded some pretty cool songs.
did it occur to anyone that since it is a MANDRILL article, it's MANDRILL'S side of the story? Maybe War wasn't shook at all. Maybe earth wind & fire were just in the back enjoying Mandrill's show right? Just cause they were watching doesn't mean they were biting!!! Right?
i always thought WAR was much better due to their 'other' recordings. senor soul, three gees puls one, etc. not the WAR ones. plus, as WAR, the wrote and recorded some pretty cool songs.
that's right... War was Senor Soul first, right? Well, that just ends this discussion right there.... that one Senor Soul album OBLITERATES the entire Mandrill AND War catalogs COMBINED forget everything else that's been said in this thread by myself and all the others
i always thought WAR was much better due to their 'other' recordings. senor soul, three gees puls one, etc. not the WAR ones. plus, as WAR, the wrote and recorded some pretty cool songs.
that's right... War was Senor Soul first, right? Well, that just ends this discussion right there.... that one Senor Soul album OBLITERATES the entire Mandrill AND War catalogs COMBINED forget everything else that's been said in this thread by myself and all the others
it's good to be back. HonkyFipple couldn't have done that job
the one gee plus three 45 or whatever the name is kills it. best funky summertime version ever. i still LOVE that version.
did it occur to anyone that since it is a MANDRILL article, it's MANDRILL'S side of the story? Maybe War wasn't shook at all. Maybe earth wind & fire were just in the back enjoying Mandrill's show right? Just cause they were watching doesn't mean they were biting!!! Right?
ya know... i never thought about that
They are "touting thier own horn" in the article. But if all these acts opened for them and then moved on incorporate percussion & horns into the mix. That says alot. The other bands also had a better feel for radio game.
i always thought WAR was much better due to their 'other' recordings. senor soul, three gees puls one, etc. not the WAR ones. plus, as WAR, the wrote and recorded some pretty cool songs.
But you'd have to be a stone masochist to sit through that two-record set on the Souffle label (The Other Side Of War That Warms Your Heart, featuring early shit recorded with Bobby Womack and members of the Watts 103rd St. Rhythm Band).
They are "touting thier own horn" in the article. But if all these acts opened for them and then moved on incorporate percussion & horns into the mix. That says alot.
Now THAT part, I'm not sure about. War, Mandrill and EW&F all debuted the same year (1971). War had percussion and horns from the gitgo , and even on their WB albums,I think EW&F had it too. Not to take away from Mandrill, but that was just something funk bands DID back then.
They are "touting thier own horn" in the article. But if all these acts opened for them and then moved on incorporate percussion & horns into the mix. That says alot.
Now THAT part, I'm not sure about. War, Mandrill and EW&F all debuted the same year (1971). War had percussion and horns from the gitgo , and even on their WB albums,I think EW&F had it too. Not to take away from Mandrill, but that was just something funk bands DID back then.
Them dudes sounded mad Purdie-esque on some, "And see what you don't know is we actually PLAYED all of the instruments on those War records!"
They are "touting thier own horn" in the article. But if all these acts opened for them and then moved on incorporate percussion & horns into the mix. That says alot.
Now THAT part, I'm not sure about. War, Mandrill and EW&F all debuted the same year (1971). War had percussion and horns from the gitgo , and even on their WB albums,I think EW&F had it too. Not to take away from Mandrill, but that was just something funk bands DID back then.
Mandrill explains that all those bands had some form congos or horn but didnt have that "wall of percusssion & Horns sound" that they had already has. One sax vs four. Or one bongo/congo vs full on percussion section.
Where does Tower Of Power sit amongst all this? Were they late 60's early70's, or mid 70's.
This reminds me of when I saw Arthur Lee & Love a few years back, and Arthur modestly informed the crowd that he had "taught Jimi Hendrix to play the guitar ..." I mean, I'm sure there is plenty of truth to what these dudes are saying, but old-time musicians um ... "seasoning" their stories to make themselves sound a little more legendary is nothing new ...
They are "touting thier own horn" in the article. But if all these acts opened for them and then moved on incorporate percussion & horns into the mix. That says alot.
Now THAT part, I'm not sure about. War, Mandrill and EW&F all debuted the same year (1971). War had percussion and horns from the gitgo , and even on their WB albums,I think EW&F had it too. Not to take away from Mandrill, but that was just something funk bands DID back then.
Mandrill explains that all those bands had some form congos or horn but didnt have that "wall of percusssion & Horns sound" that they had already has. One sax vs four. Or one bongo/congo vs full on percussion section.
Where does Tower Of Power sit amongst all this? Were they late 60's early70's, or mid 70's.
Their first album came out in 1971, too (East Bay Grease on San Francisco Records). That was just a watershed year for all these self-contained funk bands with jazz/funk leanings. I started to say that maybe all these simultaneous bands were probably influenced by SANTANA to add conga players, since they had a two-year jump on Mandrill and them (as far as albums and general influence went)???
They are "touting thier own horn" in the article. But if all these acts opened for them and then moved on incorporate percussion & horns into the mix. That says alot.
Now THAT part, I'm not sure about. War, Mandrill and EW&F all debuted the same year (1971). War had percussion and horns from the gitgo , and even on their WB albums,I think EW&F had it too. Not to take away from Mandrill, but that was just something funk bands DID back then.
Mandrill explains that all those bands had some form congos or horn but didnt have that "wall of percusssion & Horns sound" that they had already has. One sax vs four. Or one bongo/congo vs full on percussion section.
Where does Tower Of Power sit amongst all this? Were they late 60's early70's, or mid 70's.
Their first album came out in 1971, too (East Bay Grease on San Francisco Records). That was just a watershed year for all these self-contained funk bands with jazz/funk leanings. I started to say that maybe all these simultaneous bands were probably influenced by SANTANA to add conga players, since they had a two-year jump on Mandrill and them (as far as albums and general influence went)???
Kool and the Gang were on that tip too.
I think Santana had a lot to do with it but my guess is that the salsa and Latin soul explosions also influenced the shift towards more Afro-Latin percussion.
They are "touting thier own horn" in the article. But if all these acts opened for them and then moved on incorporate percussion & horns into the mix. That says alot.
Now THAT part, I'm not sure about. War, Mandrill and EW&F all debuted the same year (1971). War had percussion and horns from the gitgo , and even on their WB albums,I think EW&F had it too. Not to take away from Mandrill, but that was just something funk bands DID back then.
Mandrill explains that all those bands had some form congos or horn but didnt have that "wall of percusssion & Horns sound" that they had already has. One sax vs four. Or one bongo/congo vs full on percussion section.
Where does Tower Of Power sit amongst all this? Were they late 60's early70's, or mid 70's.
Tower of Power = formed in late 60s, debut in '71, solid (album wise) up through '76. Every dude in that group can play, no doubt, and most have kept making music and stayed local. They are still killin it live, doing side projects (one of the vocalists did vocals for one of those kareoke games on PS2) etc.
IMO Tower of Power is more a product of the Bay Area than anything else, you can really hear it. I'm sure they were also influenced by all the other great groups of that era, and I know that they blew away pretty much everyone with the tightness of their horn section.
The notion that somehow a single one of these groups influenced everyone else to start using latin percussion and a big horn section is pretty ridiculous - it was really just a sign of the times, and people had been using both for years.
The notion that somehow a single one of these groups influenced everyone else to start using latin percussion and a big horn section is pretty ridiculous - it was really just a sign of the times, and people had been using both for years.
I hear what you're saying and I agree that the idea of a single point of influence spreading outwards probably overstates it but "using both for years" is a rather ahistorical claim. Big horn sections in soul music have antecedents as does the use of Afro-Latin percussion. It's not like a bunch of bands all magically stumbled upon the same ideas around the same time by accident.
The notion that somehow a single one of these groups influenced everyone else to start using latin percussion and a big horn section is pretty ridiculous - it was really just a sign of the times, and people had been using both for years.
I hear what you're saying and I agree that the idea of a single point of influence spreading outwards probably overstates it but "using both for years" is a rather ahistorical claim. Big horn sections in soul music have antecedents as does the use of Afro-Latin percussion. It's not like a bunch of bands all magically stumbled upon the same ideas around the same time by accident.
True, but trying to trace it back to who started it all is a wild goose chase. As you said, it may have more to do with the influences of Salsa and other Latin styles, so isn't concievable that a lot of these musicians saw one of their shows and started thinking "wow, we need to get this in our group!" Each one of these groups, each person in the group may have a different starting point of "I first heard latin percussion played like that when...." There may have been a few originators earlier but by the early 70s I feel like that stuff had spread pretty far and wide.
Sure but when I think "heavy brass section" my inclination is either to credit someone like the Mar-Keys circa 1966 or James Brown's band of course as being huge influential on how later acts would craft their own sound, no?
Sure but when I think "heavy brass section" my inclination is either to credit someone like the Mar-Keys circa 1966 or James Brown's band of course as being huge influential on how later acts would craft their own sound, no?
Sure but when I think "heavy brass section" my inclination is either to credit someone like the Mar-Keys circa 1966 or James Brown's band of course as being huge influential on how later acts would craft their own sound, no?
Right, that I'm not disputing in the slightest. I was just saying that the notion that one of these early 70s groups was somehow the pioneer and the rest were followers just isn't true (and to a degree, the WaxPo article hints at that). Really all these groups were pioneers of their own sounds, which they molded from those same mid and late 60s influences, which all meshed together for a TON of groups in the early 70s. I'm just saying that Mandrill and War and all these groups are amazing, but none of them can lay claim to starting the "melting pot of styles" trend that pretty much WAS the early 70s.
Sure but when I think "heavy brass section" my inclination is either to credit someone like the Mar-Keys circa 1966 or James Brown's band of course as being huge influential on how later acts would craft their own sound, no?
Right, that I'm not disputing in the slightest. I was just saying that the notion that one of these early 70s groups was somehow the pioneer and the rest were followers just isn't true (and to a degree, the WaxPo article hints at that). Really all these groups were pioneers of their own sounds, which they molded from those same mid and late 60s influences, which all meshed together for a TON of groups in the early 70s. I'm just saying that Mandrill and War and all these groups are amazing, but none of them can lay claim to starting the "melting pot of styles" trend that pretty much WAS the early 70s.
i always thought WAR was much better due to their 'other' recordings. senor soul, three gees puls one, etc. not the WAR ones. plus, as WAR, the wrote and recorded some pretty cool songs.
that's right... War was Senor Soul first, right? Well, that just ends this discussion right there.... that one Senor Soul album OBLITERATES the entire Mandrill AND War catalogs COMBINED forget everything else that's been said in this thread by myself and all the others
you were well before this point... but the fact it took you this long to realize war was senor soul is the icing on the cake, the creators b4 that even & having talked to lonnie on many occasions dude who said that was mandrill's one sided story is right on the money, not to mention the story is in wax poopoo...
good luck next time...
ps maschicano aka one g + three wasnt war related, it was an eddie davis production by el chicano but who was the G? hmmm
you have to be the stupidest person on this forum, and that's saying a lot
you have to be the stupidest person on this forum, and that's saying a lot
you got ass clowned in a big way, im stupid is a good one, since unlike wax po my shit is correct... go learn some more shit from wax po & get back to us w/ another solid thread!
how much effort do you put into being this dumb? it seems to come very easy to you... i guess that's a talent in itself, though
you have to be the stupidest person on this forum, and that's saying a lot
you got ass clowned in a big way, im stupid is a good one, since unlike wax po my shit is correct... go learn some more shit from wax po & get back to us w/ another solid thread!
how much effort do you put into being this dumb? it seems to come very easy to you... i guess that's a talent in itself, though
your right man, my bad again, i should learn to get my info from magazines ill be better off for it...
that's a big one
but ANYWAY... are you saying you can't get any valid information from a magazine? your miniscule intelligence quotent seems to only be matched by your abysmal photoshop skills. you suck and you need to stop talking
do you see how easy i create a :5pager: out of basically nothing? I even have already SAID that this was just something to do to kill time at the office, i don't care if mandrill is > than war or not. and STILL these idots take the bait hook line AND sinker! i LOVE this forum!
time for me to pack up my briefcase, drive home and begin my labor day weekend. it's been fun sonning soulstrut once again, as I always do. See ya!
do you see how easy i create a :5pager: out of basically nothing? I even have already SAID that this was just something to do to kill time at the office, i don't care if mandrill is > than war or not. and STILL these idots take the bait hook line AND sinker! i LOVE this forum!
time for me to pack up my briefcase, drive home and begin my labor day weekend. it's been fun sonning soulstrut once again, as I always do. See ya!
Actually Raj wins. His revenue increases in direct proportion to the frequency of 10 pagers.
Comments
Did you know all of this before reading the article?
I will agree to disagree on Mandrill vs. WAR, but the above along with "Soulful Limb Movements" are two of the best new entries into the internet record vernacular. I tip my eHat, sir.
I always thought "Music for Gong Gong" was pretty dope. It might sound like afrobeat-lite to some of y'all, but under the right circumstances, this would most definitely bang.
Btw... I have the first 4 mandrill lps and only one war lp. I like the mandrill lps better but I can't say I like any one mandrill lp on the whole. Then again I shouldn't even say because I don't listen to old soul lps all the way through. Oh well....
ya know... i never thought about that
it's good to be back. HonkyFipple couldn't have done that job
the one gee plus three 45 or whatever the name is kills it. best funky summertime version ever. i still LOVE that version.
They are "touting thier own horn" in the article. But if all these acts opened for them and then moved on incorporate percussion & horns into the mix. That says alot. The other bands also had a better feel for radio game.
But you'd have to be a stone masochist to sit through that two-record set on the Souffle label (The Other Side Of War That Warms Your Heart, featuring early shit recorded with Bobby Womack and members of the Watts 103rd St. Rhythm Band).
Now THAT part, I'm not sure about. War, Mandrill and EW&F all debuted the same year (1971). War had percussion and horns from the gitgo , and even on their WB albums,I think EW&F had it too. Not to take away from Mandrill, but that was just something funk bands DID back then.
Them dudes sounded mad Purdie-esque on some, "And see what you don't know is we actually PLAYED all of the instruments on those War records!"
Mandrill explains that all those bands had some form congos or horn but didnt have that "wall of percusssion & Horns sound" that they had already has. One sax vs four. Or one bongo/congo vs full on percussion section.
Where does Tower Of Power sit amongst all this? Were they late 60's early70's, or mid 70's.
back, and Arthur modestly informed the crowd that he had "taught
Jimi Hendrix to play the guitar ..." I mean, I'm sure there is
plenty of truth to what these dudes are saying, but old-time
musicians um ... "seasoning" their stories to make themselves
sound a little more legendary is nothing new ...
Their first album came out in 1971, too (East Bay Grease on San Francisco Records). That was just a watershed year for all these self-contained funk bands with jazz/funk leanings. I started to say that maybe all these simultaneous bands were probably influenced by SANTANA to add conga players, since they had a two-year jump on Mandrill and them (as far as albums and general influence went)???
Kool and the Gang were on that tip too.
I think Santana had a lot to do with it but my guess is that the salsa and Latin soul explosions also influenced the shift towards more Afro-Latin percussion.
Tower of Power = formed in late 60s, debut in '71, solid (album wise) up through '76. Every dude in that group can play, no doubt, and most have kept making music and stayed local. They are still killin it live, doing side projects (one of the vocalists did vocals for one of those kareoke games on PS2) etc.
IMO Tower of Power is more a product of the Bay Area than anything else, you can really hear it. I'm sure they were also influenced by all the other great groups of that era, and I know that they blew away pretty much everyone with the tightness of their horn section.
The notion that somehow a single one of these groups influenced everyone else to start using latin percussion and a big horn section is pretty ridiculous - it was really just a sign of the times, and people had been using both for years.
I hear what you're saying and I agree that the idea of a single point of influence spreading outwards probably overstates it but "using both for years" is a rather ahistorical claim. Big horn sections in soul music have antecedents as does the use of Afro-Latin percussion. It's not like a bunch of bands all magically stumbled upon the same ideas around the same time by accident.
True, but trying to trace it back to who started it all is a wild goose chase. As you said, it may have more to do with the influences of Salsa and other Latin styles, so isn't concievable that a lot of these musicians saw one of their shows and started thinking "wow, we need to get this in our group!" Each one of these groups, each person in the group may have a different starting point of "I first heard latin percussion played like that when...." There may have been a few originators earlier but by the early 70s I feel like that stuff had spread pretty far and wide.
Did they have a percussion section as well?
Right, that I'm not disputing in the slightest. I was just saying that the notion that one of these early 70s groups was somehow the pioneer and the rest were followers just isn't true (and to a degree, the WaxPo article hints at that). Really all these groups were pioneers of their own sounds, which they molded from those same mid and late 60s influences, which all meshed together for a TON of groups in the early 70s. I'm just saying that Mandrill and War and all these groups are amazing, but none of them can lay claim to starting the "melting pot of styles" trend that pretty much WAS the early 70s.
you have to be the stupidest person on this forum, and that's saying a lot
how much effort do you put into being this dumb? it seems to come very easy to you... i guess that's a talent in itself, though
WEST COAST BIAS!
but ANYWAY... are you saying you can't get any valid information from a magazine? your miniscule intelligence quotent seems to only be matched by your abysmal photoshop skills. you suck and you need to stop talking
time for me to pack up my briefcase, drive home and begin my labor day weekend. it's been fun sonning soulstrut once again, as I always do. See ya!
Actually Raj wins. His revenue increases in direct proportion to the frequency of 10 pagers.
Way to go with that one