I just sort of compare that music to fast food. Processed bullshit - the same exact shit packaged a few different ways......instant gratification music.
out of the hundred or so songs mentioned in this thread, how much of it do you lump into this category of fast food music?
Frankly I don't really want to read back over every entry and review....but a few examples are Walk It Out, Laffy Taffy
Your manufactured-by-committee critique does not apply to either of those songs; they are both representative of locally popular phenomena that were already artistically established before reaching a mass audience.
Now if you just don't like those records, that's fine, but that's really where it should end--there is no need to (inaccurately) impugn the artists' motives.
You're the winner. You're totally right. I should have never 'impugned the artists motives' when it comes to groups like D4L and UNK (did you really just say that?!?!??!?!??!?). These guys making these songs were able to follow the same model without the help of an enlisted A&R. They're changing the game! Are you doing the Fabo right now? Shit I wish I could finish - but I have to fetch another latte.
"Doobie Ashtray" is more certifiably classic than MANY of these songs but it probably isn't a classic in the sense discussed here, if that makes any sense.
"Doobie Ashtray" is more certifiably classic than MANY of these songs but it probably isn't a classic in the sense discussed here, if that makes any sense.
You mean it's got a "classic" sound
33 and others - we are not the ones who will determine which of these records are classics... but I can tell you that the people in this thread who say this is all disposable, it's not permanent, it's not gonna last... are dead wrong. That's just not the way music works. People are not going to look back and be like "wow, that Sean Price record was a classic" or "man, that Sadat X joint was a modern day classic"... NO... they are going to be like "man remember 'Walk It Out'?" and a bunch of then-50 year olds will be trying to do those dances at a 2030 backyard bbq.
"Doobie Ashtray" is more certifiably classic than MANY of these songs but it probably isn't a classic in the sense discussed here, if that makes any sense.
You mean it's got a "classic" sound
33 and others - we are not the ones who will determine which of these records are classics... but I can tell you that the people in this thread who say this is all disposable, it's not permanent, it's not gonna last... are dead wrong. That's just not the way music works. People are not going to look back and be like "wow, that Sean Price record was a classic" or "man, that Sadat X joint was a modern day classic"... NO... they are going to be like "man remember 'Walk It Out'?" and a bunch of then-50 year olds will be trying to do those dances at a 2030 backyard bbq.
Pretty much, although I still do think that "D.A." will be considered a classic in years to come.
they are going to be like "man remember 'Walk It Out'?" and a bunch of then-50 year olds will be trying to do those dances at a 2030 backyard bbq.
You're kidding right?
Not at all.
You don't get out much, do you?
I know what you're talking about, but please get serious.
Going back to the basic argument, "what everyone listens to" = classic?
And I could safely say that a great portion of the rap music being churned out is complete and utter garbage. Not timeless. So definitely not classic. But of course, Becky's idea of "Oh my god that's my song!" is just as valid as anyone's idea of a classic (or so that's your argument). And I don't necessarily agree with that.
I agree with Woimsah and I think alot of people in this thread are confusing Liking a Song with a song being a classic.
Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man...
But really, how can somebody be wrong in considering a song a fucking classic? It's a completely subjective label to give something and a classic to one person or group of people can just as easily be hot garbage to the next, and vice versa. So why argue it? Laffy Taffy might be a classic to some people, you know, deal with it. It's not like there's only a handful of people in the world who would agree. You might say Common's The Corner is a classic, or some Sean Price terd or something, and I might wanna spit my drink all over you for saying it, you know? But I wouldn't, that's how you feel, and I know that plenty of other people would consider it the same. I'm not gonna sit here and tell you you're wrong for considering a song you like to be one that you will like for a long time (which is essentially what a classic is).
Again, people take the term "classic" a bit too seriously, and in all honesty, it hasn't been the 21st century long enough for anything to really be a proven classic yet (although an argument could be made for 00-01 stuff I guess), in my opinion. That's why I keep saying things like "destined to be classic" and whatever, cuz I do still need to hear this shit 10 years down the road to be sure, you know? For now it's just speculation. I used to think a bunch of shit from the 90s was classic material but I listen to it now and then go sell it on eBay cuz it does absolutely nothign for me. And you know, it's not like people are listing songs that had absolutely no acclaim or staying power. Most of the songs listed have been songs that stand out pretty well among the hundreds of thousands of other rap songs that have come out in the last 7 years.
And I don't give a fuck what anybody says, Doobie Ashtray is deifnitely a classic. Period.
"Doobie Ashtray" is more certifiably classic than MANY of these songs but it probably isn't a classic in the sense discussed here, if that makes any sense.
You mean it's got a "classic" sound
33 and others - we are not the ones who will determine which of these records are classics... but I can tell you that the people in this thread who say this is all disposable, it's not permanent, it's not gonna last... are dead wrong. That's just not the way music works. People are not going to look back and be like "wow, that Sean Price record was a classic" or "man, that Sadat X joint was a modern day classic"... NO... they are going to be like "man remember 'Walk It Out'?" and a bunch of then-50 year olds will be trying to do those dances at a 2030 backyard bbq.
I didn't read this before I posted, but you hit the nail right on the head, even had the Sean Price reference! Haha. Doobie Ashtray is a classic though, at least amongst the fans of Devin. Easily one of his most memorable tracks.
Going back to the basic argument, "what everyone listens to" = classic?
And I could safely say that a great portion of the rap music being churned out is complete and utter garbage. Not timeless. So definitely not classic. But of course, Becky's idea of "Oh my god that's my song!" is just as valid as anyone's idea of a classic (or so that's your argument). And I don't necessarily agree with that.
This is bullshit. We have been having this same argument since I started poasting here years ago.
My argument has nothing to do with you, or Becky. It's about people who are currently considered to be rap fans or consumers. People actually into the music. IE, not the people on this website (mostly), definitely not some kid who was into J-pop until a couple years back, and not some chick who goes to the club every weekend and harasses the DJ to play something she "can dance to".
And what is, or was, popular - that is very important to what becomes considered a "classic".
Let me tell you, I visit a lot of homes of old men and women who listened to soul, funk, jazz, disco, etc... when it was coming out. The stuff they care about is not the obscure shit that I sell and we all collect - with rare exception, it is the stuff that most of us couldn't care less about. Common titles in used shape. CLASSICS.
I grew up listening to rap music, and I have had the good fortune of hearing it on the radio, in the clubs, and again - the stuff that is considered "CLASSIC" is the stuff that was getting played. Some random rap record that was just discovered three years ago and blown up to Japanese collectors on ebay is not CLASSIC. Motherfucking LL Cool J is CLASSIC. By that same logic, the stuff that is hot in the clubs, on mixshow radio, "in the streets", whatever - the stuff that is hot with the core hip-hop audience - those records will be the classics of the future.
My argument is that the generation of today will decide for themselves what is classic, and neither you nor I will have much of a hand in it. The only reason why cats in this thread are offering their opinions is because a lot of us actually DO listen to this generation's music and have opinions on it. Other cats in this thread have a real thinly-veiled contempt for it and so of course you are never going to understand what makes ANY of these records classic.
This kid was blasting some kind of cheesy beats out his car. Like high-pitched synth sounds and shit, i turned off my music, listened in and noticed that it was the Lil Weezy/Birdman album. Don't get me wrong Lil Weezy is cool, but it reminded me of the Trance scene almost a decade ago.
This kid was blasting some kind of cheesy beats out his car. Like high-pitched synth sounds and shit, i turned off my music, listened in and noticed that it was the Lil Weezy/Birdman album. Don't get me wrong Lil Weezy is cool, but it reminded me of the Trance scene almost a decade ago.
That album has quite a few good songs on it, actually.
Going back to the basic argument, "what everyone listens to" = classic?
And I could safely say that a great portion of the rap music being churned out is complete and utter garbage. Not timeless. So definitely not classic. But of course, Becky's idea of "Oh my god that's my song!" is just as valid as anyone's idea of a classic (or so that's your argument). And I don't necessarily agree with that.
This is bullshit. We have been having this same argument since I started poasting here years ago.
My argument has nothing to do with you, or Becky. It's about people who are currently considered to be rap fans or consumers. People actually into the music. IE, not the people on this website (mostly), definitely not some kid who was into J-pop until a couple years back, and not some chick who goes to the club every weekend and harasses the DJ to play something she "can dance to".
And what is, or was, popular - that is very important to what becomes considered a "classic".
Let me tell you, I visit a lot of homes of old men and women who listened to soul, funk, jazz, disco, etc... when it was coming out. The stuff they care about is not the obscure shit that I sell and we all collect - with rare exception, it is the stuff that most of us couldn't care less about. Common titles in used shape. CLASSICS.
I grew up listening to rap music, and I have had the good fortune of hearing it on the radio, in the clubs, and again - the stuff that is considered "CLASSIC" is the stuff that was getting played. Some random rap record that was just discovered three years ago and blown up to Japanese collectors on ebay is not CLASSIC. Motherfucking LL Cool J is CLASSIC. By that same logic, the stuff that is hot in the clubs, on mixshow radio, "in the streets", whatever - the stuff that is hot with the core hip-hop audience - those records will be the classics of the future.
My argument is that the generation of today will decide for themselves what is classic, and neither you nor I will have much of a hand in it. The only reason why cats in this thread are offering their opinions is because a lot of us actually DO listen to this generation's music and have opinions on it. Other cats in this thread have a real thinly-veiled contempt for it and so of course you are never going to understand what makes ANY of these records classic.
All of that is nice. But why you gotta get so personal?! It hurts my feelings.
How big are these records in the history of the rap game?
How big is Michael Redd or Stephon Marbury in the history of the NBA?
Think about those questions and ask yourself again, what is a classic.
There's a reason why even "Now" consumers of rap music listen to 2pac and Biggie and Jay-Z.
There's a reason why even "Now" consumers of rap music listen to 2pac and Biggie and Jay-Z.
lol. how long have you been listening to rap??? you know I'm only Noz years old but i still remember the time (uhhh not that long ago really) when these dudes got shitted on by 'old heads' for not being enough like big daddy kane or whatever
....has nothing to do with "Walk It Out" and never will....even at a 2030 BBQ.
ahhh. but it does, young rootless. i've been thinking along p.checks lines on this for years. the shit that you or i may find corny now is going to the "jams" for the youths of today years from now. bet on that. somebody is eating these records up even if you and i may hatt on 'em. these kids have no LL equivalent in some of our eyes.
....has nothing to do with "Walk It Out" and never will....even at a 2030 BBQ.
ahhh. but it does, young rootless. i've been thinking along p.checks lines on this for years. the shit that you or i may find corny now is going to the "jams" for the youths of today years from now. bet on that. somebody is eating these records up even if you and i may hatt on 'em. these kids have no LL equivalent in some of our eyes.
i drop megaton bombs more faster than you blink.
nah dude. walk it out is a one-hit wonder. LL has a career's-worth of material. while they both might be considered "classic" at some point in the future, it's for totally different reasons.
I don't see the heads at the 2030 BBQ talmbout "yeah, the CLASSICS. you know, like LL, Run DMC, Rakim and Unk ...."
There's a reason why even "Now" consumers of rap music listen to 2pac and Biggie and Jay-Z.
lol. how long have you been listening to rap??? you know I'm only Noz years old but i still remember the time (uhhh not that long ago really) when these dudes got shitted on by 'old heads' for not being enough like big daddy kane or whatever
are you that unaware of the irony?
I don't remember any of the three guys you just mentioned EVER being "shitted on by 'old heads'" - all three were pretty much welcomed out the gate as really entertaining rappers.
....has nothing to do with "Walk It Out" and never will....even at a 2030 BBQ.
ahhh. but it does, young rootless. i've been thinking along p.checks lines on this for years. the shit that you or i may find corny now is going to the "jams" for the youths of today years from now. bet on that. somebody is eating these records up even if you and i may hatt on 'em. these kids have no LL equivalent in some of our eyes.
i drop megaton bombs more faster than you blink.
nah dude. walk it out is a one-hit wonder. LL has a career's-worth of material. while they both might be considered "classic" at some point in the future, it's for totally different reasons.
I don't see the heads at the 2030 BBQ talmbout "yeah, the CLASSICS. you know, like LL, Run DMC, Rakim and Unk ...."
your missing what i'm saying and i'm not going to go around and around on this after this post. the kids[/b] of today (read: the supporters of this current music that you hate) will look back on these hot garbage songs as "classics". i find it hard to believe that today's youth are checking for LL, RUN DMC or Rakim...it's their folks rap music not theirs. this is youth music, doggie.
There's a certain amount of "conviction" and "originality" that goes into timeless music.
What kind of originality are you looking for in a club song? What's not convincing about this song? It's a song about a dance, what kind of "conviction" are you looking for here? Is The Twist not a timeless song? Cuz that shit was about a dance. Or the Breakdown by Rufus Thomas? All he's doing is singing about how to do a dance, how lacking in originality and conviction! Walk It Out will be remembered, regardless of whether or not you can find the value in it. Plus, the remix was off the hook!
....has nothing to do with "Walk It Out" and never will....even at a 2030 BBQ.
ahhh. but it does, young rootless. i've been thinking along p.checks lines on this for years. the shit that you or i may find corny now is going to the "jams" for the youths of today years from now. bet on that. somebody is eating these records up even if you and i may hatt on 'em. these kids have no LL equivalent in some of our eyes.
i drop megaton bombs more faster than you blink.
nah dude. walk it out is a one-hit wonder. LL has a career's-worth of material. while they both might be considered "classic" at some point in the future, it's for totally different reasons.
I don't see the heads at the 2030 BBQ talmbout "yeah, the CLASSICS. you know, like LL, Run DMC, Rakim and Unk ...."
your missing what i'm saying and i'm not going to go around and around on this after this post. the kids[/b] of today (read: the supporters of this current music that you hate) will look back on these hot garbage songs as "classics". i find it hard to believe that today's youth are checking for LL, RUN DMC or Rakim...it's their folks rap music not theirs. this is youth music, doggie.
There's a certain amount of "conviction" and "originality" that goes into timeless music.
What kind of originality are you looking for in a club song? What's not convincing about this song? It's a song about a dance, what kind of "conviction" are you looking for here? Is The Twist not a timeless song? Cuz that shit was about a dance. Or the Breakdown by Rufus Thomas? All he's doing is singing about how to do a dance, how lacking in originality and conviction! Walk It Out will be remembered, regardless of whether or not you can find the value in it. Plus, the remix was off the hook!
STOP BEING A BITCH, GET A FUCKING LIFE, AND GET OFF HIS FUCKING NUTS YOU HERB!
There's a certain amount of "conviction" and "originality" that goes into timeless music.
What kind of originality are you looking for in a club song? What's not convincing about this song? It's a song about a dance, what kind of "conviction" are you looking for here? Is The Twist not a timeless song? Cuz that shit was about a dance. Or the Breakdown by Rufus Thomas? All he's doing is singing about how to do a dance, how lacking in originality and conviction! Walk It Out will be remembered, regardless of whether or not you can find the value in it. Plus, the remix was off the hook!
can we at least agree that it's not much of a dance?
plus I get the feeling the "dance" was sort of created by the "song" which was supposed to be about a "dance" that didn't really exist without the "song."
There's a reason why even "Now" consumers of rap music listen to 2pac and Biggie and Jay-Z.
lol. how long have you been listening to rap??? you know I'm only Noz years old but i still remember the time (uhhh not that long ago really) when these dudes got shitted on by 'old heads' for not being enough like big daddy kane or whatever
are you that unaware of the irony?
I don't remember any of the three guys you just mentioned EVER being "shitted on by 'old heads'" - all three were pretty much welcomed out the gate as really entertaining rappers.
seriously? All those "'88 was the best rap year evar" old dudes definitely were not feeling Jigga and Pac for years. Biggie MAYBE got a pass. Things are different now, cuz enough time passed that it was just unavoidable to say they were legends. And bcuz Jigga started using soul samples.
Comments
I'm sure location has something to do with this, but in Cali I feel like you're more likely to hear that on the radio NOW than any other Pac song.
You're the winner. You're totally right. I should have never 'impugned the artists motives' when it comes to groups like D4L and UNK (did you really just say that?!?!??!?!??!?). These guys making these songs were able to follow the same model without the help of an enlisted A&R. They're changing the game! Are you doing the Fabo right now? Shit I wish I could finish - but I have to fetch another latte.
You mean it's got a "classic" sound
33 and others - we are not the ones who will determine which of these records are classics... but I can tell you that the people in this thread who say this is all disposable, it's not permanent, it's not gonna last... are dead wrong. That's just not the way music works. People are not going to look back and be like "wow, that Sean Price record was a classic" or "man, that Sadat X joint was a modern day classic"... NO... they are going to be like "man remember 'Walk It Out'?" and a bunch of then-50 year olds will be trying to do those dances at a 2030 backyard bbq.
Pretty much, although I still do think that "D.A." will be considered a classic in years to come.
But then again, what do I KNOW about rap music.
You're kidding right?
Not at all.
You don't get out much, do you?
I know what you're talking about, but please get serious.
Going back to the basic argument, "what everyone listens to" = classic?
And I could safely say that a great portion of the rap music being churned out is complete and utter garbage. Not timeless. So definitely not classic. But of course, Becky's idea of "Oh my god that's my song!" is just as valid as anyone's idea of a classic (or so that's your argument). And I don't necessarily agree with that.
Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man...
But really, how can somebody be wrong in considering a song a fucking classic? It's a completely subjective label to give something and a classic to one person or group of people can just as easily be hot garbage to the next, and vice versa. So why argue it? Laffy Taffy might be a classic to some people, you know, deal with it. It's not like there's only a handful of people in the world who would agree. You might say Common's The Corner is a classic, or some Sean Price terd or something, and I might wanna spit my drink all over you for saying it, you know? But I wouldn't, that's how you feel, and I know that plenty of other people would consider it the same. I'm not gonna sit here and tell you you're wrong for considering a song you like to be one that you will like for a long time (which is essentially what a classic is).
Again, people take the term "classic" a bit too seriously, and in all honesty, it hasn't been the 21st century long enough for anything to really be a proven classic yet (although an argument could be made for 00-01 stuff I guess), in my opinion. That's why I keep saying things like "destined to be classic" and whatever, cuz I do still need to hear this shit 10 years down the road to be sure, you know? For now it's just speculation. I used to think a bunch of shit from the 90s was classic material but I listen to it now and then go sell it on eBay cuz it does absolutely nothign for me. And you know, it's not like people are listing songs that had absolutely no acclaim or staying power. Most of the songs listed have been songs that stand out pretty well among the hundreds of thousands of other rap songs that have come out in the last 7 years.
And I don't give a fuck what anybody says, Doobie Ashtray is deifnitely a classic. Period.
I didn't read this before I posted, but you hit the nail right on the head, even had the Sean Price reference! Haha. Doobie Ashtray is a classic though, at least amongst the fans of Devin. Easily one of his most memorable tracks.
This is bullshit. We have been having this same argument since I started poasting here years ago.
My argument has nothing to do with you, or Becky. It's about people who are currently considered to be rap fans or consumers. People actually into the music. IE, not the people on this website (mostly), definitely not some kid who was into J-pop until a couple years back, and not some chick who goes to the club every weekend and harasses the DJ to play something she "can dance to".
And what is, or was, popular - that is very important to what becomes considered a "classic".
Let me tell you, I visit a lot of homes of old men and women who listened to soul, funk, jazz, disco, etc... when it was coming out. The stuff they care about is not the obscure shit that I sell and we all collect - with rare exception, it is the stuff that most of us couldn't care less about. Common titles in used shape. CLASSICS.
I grew up listening to rap music, and I have had the good fortune of hearing it on the radio, in the clubs, and again - the stuff that is considered "CLASSIC" is the stuff that was getting played. Some random rap record that was just discovered three years ago and blown up to Japanese collectors on ebay is not CLASSIC. Motherfucking LL Cool J is CLASSIC. By that same logic, the stuff that is hot in the clubs, on mixshow radio, "in the streets", whatever - the stuff that is hot with the core hip-hop audience - those records will be the classics of the future.
My argument is that the generation of today will decide for themselves what is classic, and neither you nor I will have much of a hand in it. The only reason why cats in this thread are offering their opinions is because a lot of us actually DO listen to this generation's music and have opinions on it. Other cats in this thread have a real thinly-veiled contempt for it and so of course you are never going to understand what makes ANY of these records classic.
That album has quite a few good songs on it, actually.
Haha.
All of that is nice. But why you gotta get so personal?! It hurts my feelings.
How big are these records in the history of the rap game?
How big is Michael Redd or Stephon Marbury in the history of the NBA?
Think about those questions and ask yourself again, what is a classic.
There's a reason why even "Now" consumers of rap music listen to 2pac and Biggie and Jay-Z.
....has nothing to do with "Walk It Out" and never will....even at a 2030 BBQ.
So what ? The whole hip-hop "community" has to shut up and wait until Yuichi let them know what are the millenium undisputed classics ?
No offense, but if you don't like new rap, what makes you think you're qualified to discuss modern day classics ?
are you that unaware of the irony?
ahhh. but it does, young rootless. i've been thinking along p.checks lines on this for years. the shit that you or i may find corny now is going to the "jams" for the youths of today years from now. bet on that. somebody is eating these records up even if you and i may hatt on 'em. these kids have no LL equivalent in some of our eyes.
i drop megaton bombs more faster than you blink.
nah dude. walk it out is a one-hit wonder. LL has a career's-worth of material. while they both might be considered "classic" at some point in the future, it's for totally different reasons.
I don't see the heads at the 2030 BBQ talmbout "yeah, the CLASSICS. you know, like LL, Run DMC, Rakim and Unk ...."
I don't remember any of the three guys you just mentioned EVER being "shitted on by 'old heads'" - all three were pretty much welcomed out the gate as really entertaining rappers.
your missing what i'm saying and i'm not going to go around and around on this after this post. the kids[/b] of today (read: the supporters of this current music that you hate) will look back on these hot garbage songs as "classics". i find it hard to believe that today's youth are checking for LL, RUN DMC or Rakim...it's their folks rap music not theirs. this is youth music, doggie.
What kind of originality are you looking for in a club song? What's not convincing about this song? It's a song about a dance, what kind of "conviction" are you looking for here? Is The Twist not a timeless song? Cuz that shit was about a dance. Or the Breakdown by Rufus Thomas? All he's doing is singing about how to do a dance, how lacking in originality and conviction! Walk It Out will be remembered, regardless of whether or not you can find the value in it. Plus, the remix was off the hook!
so you're saying you're my son?
STOP BEING A BITCH, GET A FUCKING LIFE, AND GET OFF HIS FUCKING NUTS YOU HERB!
AND GET BETTER TASTE IN MUSIC!
can we at least agree that it's not much of a dance?
plus I get the feeling the "dance" was sort of created by the "song" which was supposed to be about a "dance" that didn't really exist without the "song."