And you guys are silly if you don't understand the difference between 'groove' and 'rhythm,' thats some fucking basic musicology.
isn't a groove a rhythm?
the rhythm produces the groove.
Richard Middleton (1999) describes, "the concept of groove ??? a term now theorized by analysts but long familiar in musicians' own usage ??? marks an understanding of rhythmic patterning that underlies its role in producing the characteristic rhythmic 'feel' of a piece, a feel created by a repeating framework within which variation can then take place."
If you're going to make an argument around terminology, personally, I think, "this bangs in the club" is a sufficient shorthand that simply states, "it's a good pop song" in a way that doesn't REALLY need much more explication past that.
But jesus Deej, I'd think you'd be perceptive enough to realize that you're trying to be a formalist in an environment that leans far more towards "pop-tivism" and while it's cool if you want to push your particular aesthetic agenda, the fact that people don't want to join you is equally valid as well, no?
Between "corny one-liners" and "actual discussions of music", there's a wide spectrum and I actually think this thread has rested quite nicely in the middle. Just, as I think you acknowledge below(?), your sense of what "actual discussions of music" comprises can be seen as others as annoying and/or condescending as what you pinpoint as "corny one liners."
And "basic fucking musicology," while useful, is hardly a prequisite to talking about music as a personal or social force. We're not a music class here.
this is v similar to amerie thread in that i am being v. serious and you guys are enjoying clowning me, as well as willfully misreading what i'm saying and making up fake arguments that i'm not actually saying (i.e. i want kanye to spit "'plex 'phors") bcuz you dont actually feel like actually discussing music beyond 'it bangs' vs. 'it blows'
i mean wtf emil - obv i'm being humorless/overserious in this thread so i get why u guys get all amped up at disagreeing w/ me but seriously, i love music and there is a near-infinite number of ways to discuss and make observations and share insights about it without lazy ass arguments about folks who aren't feeling it 'dont go to the club' or whatever.
i understand that what i'm saying comes across as like, 'i'm right you're wrong' and i don't really intend it to. MY BAD. But I'm sorry, i just find threads that are absent discussion or that turn into corny one-liners and disses rather than actual discussions of the music in question to be silly.
And you guys are silly if you don't understand the difference between 'groove' and 'rhythm,' thats some fucking basic musicology.
If you're going to make an argument around terminology, personally, I think, "this bangs in the club" is a sufficient shorthand that simply states, "it's a good pop song" in a way that doesn't REALLY need much more explication past that.
i'm fine w/ that in short term but i'd like to thing that we can progress beyond simple 'for/against' taking sides. I guess its cool to know, you know, which people tally behind 'pro' or 'anti' kanye but i'm interested to know what other folks reasoning is.
But jesus Deej, I'd think you'd be perceptive enough to realize that you're trying to be a formalist in an environment that leans far more towards "pop-tivism" and while it's cool if you want to push your particular aesthetic agenda, the fact that people don't want to join you is equally valid as well, no?
i think that 'pop-tivism' is totally a part of my approach tho - i just would prefer to elucidate on it, to explain the aspects of my experience w/ a song that lead me to have certain responses. I don't think i'm dissing folks who don't want to engage the same way, but with people who i feel aren't really 'engaging' at all - they're just talking shit.
Between "corny one-liners" and "actual discussions of music", there's a wide spectrum and I actually think this thread has rested quite nicely in the middle. Just, as I think you acknowledge below(?), your sense of what "actual discussions of music" comprises can be seen as others as annoying and/or condescending as what you pinpoint as "corny one liners."
yeah i'll work on that. im not really in a good mood today for 'irl' reasons so i'll admit that i'm kind of carrying a humorless tone over here and coming across as kind of a dick
And "basic fucking musicology," while useful, is hardly a prequisite to talking about music as a personal or social force. We're not a music class here.
this was a year-old argument-related! but all the same i think that the diff between 'groove' and 'rhythm' actually isn't far off from the effects of pop music as a personal or social source at all - i mean, isn't that essentially what ppl are referring to when they look to 'the club' for legitimizing purposes?
Why is this a 10+ pager? I haven't read it, but is anyone really going to give two shits about this song in a couple months? Doubt it. I'll give it a bump in 3 months and we'll see how well it ages.
I've heard people hate on Kanye's mic skills & I never thought him THAT bad. He sounds kinda ehh on this new track, tho. The beat is nice. I'd rather listen to the new Turf Talk. And what's with Faux dissing Sean Price on page 1 of this thread? NY gets no love anymore.
Damn, i really wasnt saying its a dope song just to be some 10 pager starting antagonist. I actually really like it. Yes, ive rolled around in the car to it, and yes i think technically he did a very good job hooking up the beat.
I mean, all hes really taking is the vocals, the chords and the drums and the whole rest of the song is kanye. I wasnt aware that daft punk was some mythical hipster status where people cant touch them. I had homework, havent really paid them much attention since then. I thought one more time was kinda gay.
To be honest, when i first heard the track, i didnt immediately know it was daft punk. The drums are from the love record? I think they sound banging.
I would also rather listen to kanye rap than most of these other lames out today. That includes mims, rich boy., lil boosie, hot dollar, twista (yes, twista), young joc, gorilla zoe or whatever the fuck his name is. Yes kanye is a much better rapper than these guys.
I like his verses on stronger. The part about prince and apollonia, the you should be honored by my lateness part, i even like the hook.
I dont really have any academic defense of the song that will satisfy deej and oliver and company. except to say that...
1. kon hates everything......except techno.
2. Oliver is too caught up in the idea of "whats being sampled" to give it a fair shot. and..
3. deej is a herb who listens to dave matthews and needs to sit the fuck down.
The rest of yall that dont like it...i dunno, i guess i thought you would. I think its pretty different. I didnt really like it till i heard it in the studio like 10 times or more..but it grew on me, and im certainly a fan of it now. I guess give it a few more listens before you pass final judgement on it.
it was a lot of things. young phonics asked people if they could give examples of an 'club banger with an organic sound' and it ended up being like 5 pages of just discussing '1 Thing' and it became a debate about how it isn't a real club banger and so on with a lot of definitions and nitpicking about the difference between a groove and a rhythm or something. i can't remember it all.
Oh snap! And maaaaan the beat they ended up picking is so far from "organic" it's actually kind of funny.
If you're going to make an argument around terminology, personally, I think, "this bangs in the club" is a sufficient shorthand that simply states, "it's a good pop song" in a way that doesn't REALLY need much more explication past that.
i'm fine w/ that in short term but i'd like to thing that we can progress beyond simple 'for/against' taking sides. I guess its cool to know, you know, which people tally behind 'pro' or 'anti' kanye but i'm interested to know what other folks reasoning is.
If you're going to make an argument around terminology, personally, I think, "this bangs in the club" is a sufficient shorthand that simply states, "it's a good pop song" in a way that doesn't REALLY need much more explication past that.
i'm fine w/ that in short term but i'd like to thing that we can progress beyond simple 'for/against' taking sides. I guess its cool to know, you know, which people tally behind 'pro' or 'anti' kanye but i'm interested to know what other folks reasoning is.
If you're going to make an argument around terminology, personally, I think, "this bangs in the club" is a sufficient shorthand that simply states, "it's a good pop song" in a way that doesn't REALLY need much more explication past that.
i'm fine w/ that in short term but i'd like to thing that we can progress beyond simple 'for/against' taking sides. I guess its cool to know, you know, which people tally behind 'pro' or 'anti' kanye but i'm interested to know what other folks reasoning is.
Deej will show us the way forward!
elevate & educate
In seriousness though, deej, SoulStrut was around for years before you arrived and the community and its modes of discussion were pretty much fully formed by the time you got here.
If you're frustrated that nobody takes observations like "the beat is not really doing any rhythmic work" seriously, then maybe you save those observations for ILX.
observations like "the beat is not really doing any rhythmic work"
is that from the amerie thread? because i never said that here
if its from that one it also sounds out of context as fuck
Yes, it was from the Amerie thread.
But there is no imaginable context in which it would make sense.
i can only imagine i said it like "the beat is not really doing any rhythmic work to a certain specific end," the rhythm doesn't lock in to a firm predictable groove but since we're still debating the diff between 'rhythm' and 'groove' a year later i dont really want to get into this again
observations like "the beat is not really doing any rhythmic work"
is that from the amerie thread? because i never said that here
if its from that one it also sounds out of context as fuck
Yes, it was from the Amerie thread.
But there is no imaginable context in which it would make sense.
i can only imagine i said it like "the beat is not really doing any rhythmic work to a certain specific end," the rhythm doesn't lock in to a firm predictable groove but since we're still debating the diff between 'rhythm' and 'groove' a year later i dont really want to get into this again
That's exactly what I'm talking about. Deejtalk. Save it for Breihan.
observations like "the beat is not really doing any rhythmic work"
is that from the amerie thread? because i never said that here
if its from that one it also sounds out of context as fuck
Yes, it was from the Amerie thread.
But there is no imaginable context in which it would make sense.
i can only imagine i said it like "the beat is not really doing any rhythmic work to a certain specific end," the rhythm doesn't lock in to a firm predictable groove but since we're still debating the diff between 'rhythm' and 'groove' a year later i dont really want to get into this again
That's exactly what I'm talking about. Deejtalk. Save it for Breihan.
yes thinking gives you wrinkles/makes you breihan how is this kind of 'it works in the club' logic any different from the 'beckys' you guys make fun of all the time? ISNT MESSAGE BOARD OVERANALYSIS WHAT SEPARATES MAN FROM APE??
observations like "the beat is not really doing any rhythmic work"
is that from the amerie thread? because i never said that here
if its from that one it also sounds out of context as fuck
Yes, it was from the Amerie thread.
But there is no imaginable context in which it would make sense.
i can only imagine i said it like "the beat is not really doing any rhythmic work to a certain specific end," the rhythm doesn't lock in to a firm predictable groove but since we're still debating the diff between 'rhythm' and 'groove' a year later i dont really want to get into this again
Anyone can go on & on about nothing. When are you going to post some raer already? You wanna be down so bad? Step up to the plate, kid, & drop some heat.
Comments
isn't a groove a rhythm?
in other words, the groove is the 'rhythmic feel'
But jesus Deej, I'd think you'd be perceptive enough to realize that you're trying to be a formalist in an environment that leans far more towards "pop-tivism" and while it's cool if you want to push your particular aesthetic agenda, the fact that people don't want to join you is equally valid as well, no?
Between "corny one-liners" and "actual discussions of music", there's a wide spectrum and I actually think this thread has rested quite nicely in the middle. Just, as I think you acknowledge below(?), your sense of what "actual discussions of music" comprises can be seen as others as annoying and/or condescending as what you pinpoint as "corny one liners."
And "basic fucking musicology," while useful, is hardly a prequisite to talking about music as a personal or social force. We're not a music class here.
i'm fine w/ that in short term but i'd like to thing that we can progress beyond simple 'for/against' taking sides. I guess its cool to know, you know, which people tally behind 'pro' or 'anti' kanye but i'm interested to know what other folks reasoning is.
i think that 'pop-tivism' is totally a part of my approach tho - i just would prefer to elucidate on it, to explain the aspects of my experience w/ a song that lead me to have certain responses. I don't think i'm dissing folks who don't want to engage the same way, but with people who i feel aren't really 'engaging' at all - they're just talking shit.
yeah i'll work on that. im not really in a good mood today for 'irl' reasons so i'll admit that i'm kind of carrying a humorless tone over here and coming across as kind of a dick
this was a year-old argument-related! but all the same i think that the diff between 'groove' and 'rhythm' actually isn't far off from the effects of pop music as a personal or social source at all - i mean, isn't that essentially what ppl are referring to when they look to 'the club' for legitimizing purposes?
'wink'
This song is hawt trash btw
I mean, all hes really taking is the vocals, the chords and the drums and the whole rest of the song is kanye. I wasnt aware that daft punk was some mythical hipster status where people cant touch them. I had homework, havent really paid them much attention since then. I thought one more time was kinda gay.
To be honest, when i first heard the track, i didnt immediately know it was daft punk. The drums are from the love record? I think they sound banging.
I would also rather listen to kanye rap than most of these other lames out today. That includes mims, rich boy., lil boosie, hot dollar, twista (yes, twista), young joc, gorilla zoe or whatever the fuck his name is. Yes kanye is a much better rapper than these guys.
I like his verses on stronger. The part about prince and apollonia, the you should be honored by my lateness part, i even like the hook.
I dont really have any academic defense of the song that will satisfy deej and oliver and company. except to say that...
1. kon hates everything......except techno.
2. Oliver is too caught up in the idea of "whats being sampled" to give it a fair shot. and..
3. deej is a herb who listens to dave matthews and needs to sit the fuck down.
The rest of yall that dont like it...i dunno, i guess i thought you would. I think its pretty different. I didnt really like it till i heard it in the studio like 10 times or more..but it grew on me, and im certainly a fan of it now. I guess give it a few more listens before you pass final judgement on it.
Love it or hate it music.
Music is made to be talked about instead of enjoyed.
but yr 'kanye is the goat' post is top notch, really
Oh snap! And maaaaan the beat they ended up picking is so far from "organic" it's actually kind of funny.
Deej will show us the way forward!
thats right. this thread is really all about deej.
In seriousness though, deej, SoulStrut was around for years before you arrived and the community and its modes of discussion were pretty much fully formed by the time you got here.
If you're frustrated that nobody takes observations like "the beat is not really doing any rhythmic work" seriously, then maybe you save those observations for ILX.
fuck it
Yes, it was from the Amerie thread.
But there is no imaginable context in which it would make sense.
i can only imagine i said it like "the beat is not really doing any rhythmic work to a certain specific end," the rhythm doesn't lock in to a firm predictable groove but since we're still debating the diff between 'rhythm' and 'groove' a year later i dont really want to get into this again
That's exactly what I'm talking about. Deejtalk. Save it for Breihan.
how is this kind of 'it works in the club' logic any different from the 'beckys' you guys make fun of all the time?
ISNT MESSAGE BOARD OVERANALYSIS WHAT SEPARATES MAN FROM APE??
Let's please NOT start this up agian.
Anyone can go on & on about nothing. When are you going to post some raer already? You wanna be down so bad? Step up to the plate, kid, & drop some heat.
Agreed, i am most confused by this particular bout of Deejery...