Everyone seems to be buddies with yo-i-got-beats and not willing to say it, but I think it was pretty bush league to shit all over the effort put into making this comp as if it were nothing, as if no work, money, or devotion were involved. Personally I think people willing to spend their time trying to legally share rare & obscure music with the world AND get the artists paid money they would never get otherwise deserve RESPECT and not DERISION.
I'm actually cool with Danno (and I hope still) and Dan, if you feel like I'm shitting on you I apoligize.
Again, not saying his work and effort isn't valid, but just that maybe he might want to have the same empathy and concerns for other people's work that he regards for his. As a moderator of this site, he can set rules. One song is cool but an album is a no-no?
And as someone who's put out records that people have since bootlegged, I'd much prefer cats found out about my ish the way it was originally released rather than a revised Interpretation for those who didn't catch it the first time around. so maybe that's my bias on the whole subject.
I work with one of these "get rich quick" guys......the dude always has some idea or invention he's trying to hit it big with......he's sure he's gonna retire on one of these million dollar ideas.
One day he's chewing my ear off about how he's applied for a patent on a planter made out of a gallon Milk container.......and how this is "the big one".
So rather than amuse him and just shake my head, I'm my usual dickself and start asking him about pricing, distribution, manufacturing.
The dude is clueless, doesn't have the slightest idea how to make or market his idea.
Then I ask him if he's done any market research and how he's so sure his idea will take off.
And his reply was pure comedy....
"Well, my wife and I made some and put them outside our house and they were stolen!! So obviously SOMEBODY likes them"!!!!!
Somehow, after two Chimay's, this seemed like an appropriate story for this thread.
I have little doubt that Danno has invested more time and money into this project than many new 'original' works have. Perhaps you don't think this is worth anything, but the fact is music like this simply isn't available without folks willing to devote themselves to properly rereleasing it... discouraging them results in less good music on the market.
There's plenty of good music on the market - you just have to get off your ass and get it. It's not a worthless endevour, but maybe he should've created a better business model so he wouldn't have to whine about selling a few less copies or pitched it to a label that knew what they were doing. "people like the music I found but it's not enough - I need that paper!" Boo fucking hoo.
Not attempting to discourage anyone, just don't make seem like the world is a better place cuz people make comps. Especiially when no one asked him to make the effort.
Please show me where Danno is saying "I need that paper!" I really don't understand where the "pitched it to a label that knew what they were doing" part comes in either, as music gets downloaded regardless of the label's competence. You are taking what may be valid points but exaggerating them unecessarily and choosing to be pretty mean-spirited about it.
Remember why you did this in the first place. Was it a labor of love? Was it to make money? Does file-sharing prevent you from reaching your initial goal with this compilation? If money is your goal, fight it (but think carefully about what will actually help or hurt sales, rather than just fighting on principle). If your goal was to introduce people to good music and give some long-forgotten artists some recognition, let it go and enjoy the fact that so many people enjoy the CD and are appreciative of what you've done.
*Edited to point out that the next two paragraphs are not directed at Danno, but at the conversation in general:
My problem with too many artists is they want to have their cake and eat it too. They want their acclaim and recognition to be as widespread as possible, but they don't want to lose a single penny in the process. "I want you to hear what I'm offering, but you have to pay me first" is not the best business model. Yes, it has been around for a long time, but mainly for a lack of decent alternatives.
If you can get paid by having fun and doing something you love, awesome. But if you are mad at not getting paid for doing something you would be doing anyway, you might want to reassess your priorities.
I am not defending blogging's functionality because it's the medium I chose. I chose it because it's so damn functional. No cost of entry, no risk, no obligation and the cream (namely, me) rises to the top.
I'm sure danno was well aware of what he was getting himself into. You can prepare yourself all you want, but it's another thing when it actually hits you. We're seeing that right now.
He is just using the board as an outlet for his frustrations, a recurring theme for the majority of posts on soulstrut.
i'm still not sure why so many people attach such a negative stigma to a very malleable medium.
because for every blog with worthwhile content there are at least a thousand others that are complete garbage?
The same could be said about records.
The same could be said about _______ x 5000. Your point being...
Blogs lack the history, credibility, regulation, and restraint traditional media has. Now are traditional formats infallable? Of course not, but I certainly do trust them more.
Its inherent accessibility is at the same time its greatest strength yet weakest link. IMO, the media hype is disproportionate to its usefulness. That is why a lot of folks feel it's overrated.
Obviously you have a vested interest in defending this medium as it is your claim to fame. Nothing wrong with that, it's your interest. I'll leave the blogs to you and faux, I'll read my new yorker. NO, the two are not mutually exclusive, just my preference.
This is taking away from the original intent of the post, for that I apologize.
Dude, this is ridiculous--and I say that as someone with a subscription to the New Yorker, who reads it cover-to-cover on the train every week and who does not have a blog.
I believe his point was that blogs are like all other forms of media in that making the most out of them requires exercising discernment. If you believe that "traditional formats" are inherently more trustworthy, then you're forgetting that that term includes Vice, The Enquirer, The NY Post, and any number of free publications, etc., etc., etc. "Traditional Formats" is not limited to the Times. You probably do not trust "traditional formats" at all--you trust certain brands that are available in traditional formats. And, similarly, anyone willing to invest a little time can determine what the worthwhile brands in the blog world are that overlap with his interests.
I don't look to the blogosphere as my source of hard news--that's not really what it's for, and maybe that's where your argument is going wrong. I look to them for two things: (i) information on subjects which traditional formats generally decline to cover or, when they do, are often less than credible, and (ii) for commentary, and you ought to be able to make up your own mind whether you find someone's opinion credible, without depending upon the imprint of The Economist or the Times.
I work with one of these "get rich quick" guys......the dude always has some idea or invention he's trying to hit it big with......he's sure he's gonna retire on one of these million dollar ideas.
One day he's chewing my ear off about how he's applied for a patent on a planter made out of a gallon Milk container.......and how this is "the big one".
So rather than amuse him and just shake my head, I'm my usual dickself and start asking him about pricing, distribution, manufacturing.
The dude is clueless, doesn't have the slightest idea how to make or market his idea.
Then I ask him if he's done any market research and how he's so sure his idea will take off.
And his reply was pure comedy....
"Well, my wife and I made some and put them outside our house and they were stolen!! So obviously SOMEBODY likes them"!!!!!
Somehow, after two Chimay's, this seemed like an appropriate story for this thread.
Yo, I was at the donut store this morning and started thinking, you know why should I have to pay for this donut? I've bought mad pastries here for many years. I've told all my homies about this spot AND I've even shared some donuts with cats. They all will probably for sure stop through here and Buy a donut when they come through my part of town. In fact, I've given this here donut shop so much props and free exposure that they should be giving me donuts on the strength. In fact, you know what, Ima just take the donut when they aren't looking because I know they would agree the fact that I at least earned this donut if they were to see me swipe it. And, plus, you know todays donut batch could not taste good so I should be able to try at least this one. Plus, I mean it's only 55 cents so it's not like it's hurt them with their fancy shmancy cooler and neon sign. I don't even think stealing something worth only 55 cents is even a crime. You know what, I'ma tell my homies they keep going in the back to bake so we can all get some.
They should be happy we like their donuts.
Anyone can make donuts, shit I could make these at home. They should be happy I even know they sell them. Shit.
(just doing my part to up the page count! carry on)
Remember why you did this in the first place. Was it a labor of love? Was it to make money? Does file-sharing prevent you from reaching your initial goal with this compilation? If money is your goal, fight it (but think carefully about what will actually help or hurt sales, rather than just fighting on principle). If your goal was to introduce people to good music and give some long-forgotten artists some recognition, let it go and enjoy the fact that so many people enjoy the CD and are appreciative of what you've done.
My problem with too many artists is they want to have their cake and eat it too. They want their acclaim and recognition to be as widespread as possible, but they don't want to lose a single penny in the process. "I want you to hear what I'm offering, but you have to pay me first" is not the best business model. Yes, it has been around for a long time, but mainly for a lack of decent alternatives.
If you can get paid by having fun and doing something you love, awesome. But if you are mad at not getting paid for doing something you would be doing anyway, you might want to reassess your priorities.
right on. My problem isn't with Dan either. I actually bought the album and love it. I just don't know if I'm more amazed at Dan not expecting it to be ripped/posted on blogs (that happends to most albums that are amazing), or the hypocracy of the other dudes backing him up with some "yeah, downloading albums is morally wrong" yet that shit happens all over this place.
I work with one of these "get rich quick" guys......the dude always has some idea or invention he's trying to hit it big with......he's sure he's gonna retire on one of these million dollar ideas.
One day he's chewing my ear off about how he's applied for a patent on a planter made out of a gallon Milk container.......and how this is "the big one".
So rather than amuse him and just shake my head, I'm my usual dickself and start asking him about pricing, distribution, manufacturing.
The dude is clueless, doesn't have the slightest idea how to make or market his idea.
Then I ask him if he's done any market research and how he's so sure his idea will take off.
And his reply was pure comedy....
"Well, my wife and I made some and put them outside our house and they were stolen!! So obviously SOMEBODY likes them"!!!!!
Somehow, after two Chimay's, this seemed like an appropriate story for this thread.
Yo, I was at the donut store this morning and started thinking, you know why should I have to pay for this donut? I've bought mad pastries here for many years. I've told all my homies about this spot AND I've even shared some donuts with cats. They all will probably for sure stop through here and Buy a donut when they come through my part of town. In fact, I've given this here donut shop so much props and free exposure that they should be giving me donuts on the strength. In fact, you know what, Ima just take the donut when they aren't looking because I know they would agree the fact that I at least earned this donut if they were to see me swipe it. And, plus, you know todays donut batch could not taste good so I should be able to try at least this one. Plus, I mean it's only 55 cents so it's not like it's hurt them with their fancy shmancy cooler and neon sign. I don't even think stealing something worth only 55 cents is even a crime. You know what, I'ma tell my homies they keep going in the back to bake so we can all get some.
They should be happy we like their donuts.
Anyone can make donuts, shit I could make these at home. They should be happy I even know they sell them. Shit.
(just doing my part to up the page count! carry on)
Fuck it, I should start charging people to hear me talk. They're my thoughts and ideas being expressed, right? Why should anyone be able to listen to them, think about them, or even repeat them as their own anytime they want? Dudes are ruining my livelihood with all this "free conversation" bullsh*t.
Yo, I was at the donut store this morning and started thinking, you know why should I have to pay for this donut? I've bought mad pastries here for many years. I've told all my homies about this spot AND I've even shared some donuts with cats. They all will probably for sure stop through here and Buy a donut when they come through my part of town. In fact, I've given this here donut shop so much props and free exposure that they should be giving me donuts on the strength. In fact, you know what, Ima just take the donut when they aren't looking because I know they would agree the fact that I at least earned this donut if they were to see me swipe it. And, plus, you know todays donut batch could not taste good so I should be able to try at least this one. Plus, I mean it's only 55 cents so it's not like it's hurt them with their fancy shmancy cooler and neon sign. I don't even think stealing something worth only 55 cents is even a crime. You know what, I'ma tell my homies they keep going in the back to bake so we can all get some.
I work with one of these "get rich quick" guys......the dude always has some idea or invention he's trying to hit it big with......he's sure he's gonna retire on one of these million dollar ideas.
One day he's chewing my ear off about how he's applied for a patent on a planter made out of a gallon Milk container.......and how this is "the big one".
So rather than amuse him and just shake my head, I'm my usual dickself and start asking him about pricing, distribution, manufacturing.
The dude is clueless, doesn't have the slightest idea how to make or market his idea.
Then I ask him if he's done any market research and how he's so sure his idea will take off.
And his reply was pure comedy....
"Well, my wife and I made some and put them outside our house and they were stolen!! So obviously SOMEBODY likes them"!!!!!
Somehow, after two Chimay's, this seemed like an appropriate story for this thread.
Yo, I was at the donut store this morning and started thinking, you know why should I have to pay for this donut? I've bought mad pastries here for many years. I've told all my homies about this spot AND I've even shared some donuts with cats. They all will probably for sure stop through here and Buy a donut when they come through my part of town. In fact, I've given this here donut shop so much props and free exposure that they should be giving me donuts on the strength. In fact, you know what, Ima just take the donut when they aren't looking because I know they would agree the fact that I at least earned this donut if they were to see me swipe it. And, plus, you know todays donut batch could not taste good so I should be able to try at least this one. Plus, I mean it's only 55 cents so it's not like it's hurt them with their fancy shmancy cooler and neon sign. I don't even think stealing something worth only 55 cents is even a crime. You know what, I'ma tell my homies they keep going in the back to bake so we can all get some.
They should be happy we like their donuts.
Anyone can make donuts, shit I could make these at home. They should be happy I even know they sell them. Shit.
(just doing my part to up the page count! carry on)
Fuck it, I should start charging people to hear me talk. They're my thoughts and ideas being expressed, right? Why should anyone be able to listen to them, think about them, or even repeat them as their own anytime they want? Dudes are ruining my livelihood with all this "free conversation" bullsh*t.
I work with one of these "get rich quick" guys......the dude always has some idea or invention he's trying to hit it big with......he's sure he's gonna retire on one of these million dollar ideas.
One day he's chewing my ear off about how he's applied for a patent on a planter made out of a gallon Milk container.......and how this is "the big one".
So rather than amuse him and just shake my head, I'm my usual dickself and start asking him about pricing, distribution, manufacturing.
The dude is clueless, doesn't have the slightest idea how to make or market his idea.
Then I ask him if he's done any market research and how he's so sure his idea will take off.
And his reply was pure comedy....
"Well, my wife and I made some and put them outside our house and they were stolen!! So obviously SOMEBODY likes them"!!!!!
Somehow, after two Chimay's, this seemed like an appropriate story for this thread.
Yo, I was at the donut store this morning and started thinking, you know why should I have to pay for this donut? I've bought mad pastries here for many years. I've told all my homies about this spot AND I've even shared some donuts with cats. They all will probably for sure stop through here and Buy a donut when they come through my part of town. In fact, I've given this here donut shop so much props and free exposure that they should be giving me donuts on the strength. In fact, you know what, Ima just take the donut when they aren't looking because I know they would agree the fact that I at least earned this donut if they were to see me swipe it. And, plus, you know todays donut batch could not taste good so I should be able to try at least this one. Plus, I mean it's only 55 cents so it's not like it's hurt them with their fancy shmancy cooler and neon sign. I don't even think stealing something worth only 55 cents is even a crime. You know what, I'ma tell my homies they keep going in the back to bake so we can all get some.
They should be happy we like their donuts.
Anyone can make donuts, shit I could make these at home. They should be happy I even know they sell them. Shit.
(just doing my part to up the page count! carry on)
Fuck it, I should start charging people to hear me talk. They're my thoughts and ideas being expressed, right? Why should anyone be able to listen to them, think about them, or even repeat them as their own anytime they want? Dudes are ruining my livelihood with all this "free conversation" bullsh*t.
This from a dude who hasn't even fully licensed his DNA from his parents yet. Hypocritters everywhere these days.
I work with one of these "get rich quick" guys......the dude always has some idea or invention he's trying to hit it big with......he's sure he's gonna retire on one of these million dollar ideas.
One day he's chewing my ear off about how he's applied for a patent on a planter made out of a gallon Milk container.......and how this is "the big one".
So rather than amuse him and just shake my head, I'm my usual dickself and start asking him about pricing, distribution, manufacturing.
The dude is clueless, doesn't have the slightest idea how to make or market his idea.
Then I ask him if he's done any market research and how he's so sure his idea will take off.
And his reply was pure comedy....
"Well, my wife and I made some and put them outside our house and they were stolen!! So obviously SOMEBODY likes them"!!!!!
Somehow, after two Chimay's, this seemed like an appropriate story for this thread.
Yo, I was at the donut store this morning and started thinking, you know why should I have to pay for this donut? I've bought mad pastries here for many years. I've told all my homies about this spot AND I've even shared some donuts with cats. They all will probably for sure stop through here and Buy a donut when they come through my part of town. In fact, I've given this here donut shop so much props and free exposure that they should be giving me donuts on the strength. In fact, you know what, Ima just take the donut when they aren't looking because I know they would agree the fact that I at least earned this donut if they were to see me swipe it. And, plus, you know todays donut batch could not taste good so I should be able to try at least this one. Plus, I mean it's only 55 cents so it's not like it's hurt them with their fancy shmancy cooler and neon sign. I don't even think stealing something worth only 55 cents is even a crime. You know what, I'ma tell my homies they keep going in the back to bake so we can all get some.
They should be happy we like their donuts.
Anyone can make donuts, shit I could make these at home. They should be happy I even know they sell them. Shit.
(just doing my part to up the page count! carry on)
Fuck it, I should start charging people to hear me talk. They're my thoughts and ideas being expressed, right? Why should anyone be able to listen to them, think about them, or even repeat them as their own anytime they want? Dudes are ruining my livelihood with all this "free conversation" bullsh*t.
This from a dude who hasn't even fully licensed his DNA from his parents yet. Hypocritters everywhere these days.
Dude, this is ridiculous--and I say that as someone with a subscription to the New Yorker, who reads it cover-to-cover on the train every week and who does not have a blog.
I believe his point was that blogs are like all other forms of media in that making the most out of them requires exercising discernment. If you believe that "traditional formats" are inherently more trustworthy, then you're forgetting that that term includes Vice, The Enquirer, The NY Post, and any number of free publications, etc., etc., etc. "Traditional Formats" is not limited to the Times. You probably do not trust "traditional formats" at all--you trust certain brands that are available in traditional formats. And, similarly, anyone willing to invest a little time can determine what the worthwhile brands in the blog world are that overlap with his interests.
I don't look to the blogosphere as my source of hard news--that's not really what it's for, and maybe that's where your argument is going wrong. I look to them for two things: (i) information on subjects which traditional fromats generally decline to cover or, when they do, are often less than credible, and (ii) for commentary, and you ought to be able to make up your own mind whether you find someone's opinion credible, without depending upon the imprint of The Economist or the Times.
I can't list exceptions to every point I make, I infer on you to read between the lines. When I said traditional media wasn't infallable, it was meant to cover examples you've just cited (Vice, Enquirer, etc). Also I explicitly said the two (blogs/new yorker) are not mutually exclusive to save myself from responding to your claim. Yet I'm doing it now.
Why I chose new yorker as an example is because it does not strictly deal w/ "hard news". Lots of opinion pieces, short stories and such....slight parallel to blogs.
Let me get as explicit as possible, the ratio of good/bad in the traditional media world is much more faovurable than with blogs. It's a needle in a basket vs haystack, thus time invested in blogs would be proportionately higher. Reasons for this are stated in my previous post.
In response to noz's reply, my point still stands. The double edged sword of blogs lies with its accessibility. I am glad it has worked out for him though.
I read blogs occasionally, I'll be foolish to ignore it completely. Doesn't mean I can't be frustrated with its current standing.
Finally, there is no accounting for personal taste. My online reading habits tend to veer towards "hard news". I think most people I IM regularly can attest to that. Considering the number of bbc links I annoy people with each day...
I work with one of these "get rich quick" guys......the dude always has some idea or invention he's trying to hit it big with......he's sure he's gonna retire on one of these million dollar ideas.
One day he's chewing my ear off about how he's applied for a patent on a planter made out of a gallon Milk container.......and how this is "the big one".
So rather than amuse him and just shake my head, I'm my usual dickself and start asking him about pricing, distribution, manufacturing.
The dude is clueless, doesn't have the slightest idea how to make or market his idea.
Then I ask him if he's done any market research and how he's so sure his idea will take off.
And his reply was pure comedy....
"Well, my wife and I made some and put them outside our house and they were stolen!! So obviously SOMEBODY likes them"!!!!!
Somehow, after two Chimay's, this seemed like an appropriate story for this thread.
Yo, I was at the donut store this morning and started thinking, you know why should I have to pay for this donut? I've bought mad pastries here for many years. I've told all my homies about this spot AND I've even shared some donuts with cats. They all will probably for sure stop through here and Buy a donut when they come through my part of town. In fact, I've given this here donut shop so much props and free exposure that they should be giving me donuts on the strength. In fact, you know what, Ima just take the donut when they aren't looking because I know they would agree the fact that I at least earned this donut if they were to see me swipe it. And, plus, you know todays donut batch could not taste good so I should be able to try at least this one. Plus, I mean it's only 55 cents so it's not like it's hurt them with their fancy shmancy cooler and neon sign. I don't even think stealing something worth only 55 cents is even a crime. You know what, I'ma tell my homies they keep going in the back to bake so we can all get some.
They should be happy we like their donuts.
Anyone can make donuts, shit I could make these at home. They should be happy I even know they sell them. Shit.
(just doing my part to up the page count! carry on)
Post count bump...
Oh shit, this reminds me of a time I had some money in a show and an artist (Not even on the bill) expected him and all his friends to get in for free. Cause he had a record playing on the radio. Naw, that story sucks... OK, this one time an artist came thru my store and wanted his purchase for nothing. Nooo that shit sucks also. OK, this one time my gurl was working at a clothing spot and an R&B dude... Fuck I should just quit, cause probably a few dozen of these suck.
OK... This one time. I was in NYC and I was with a certain well known label rep. And we end up with a certain well known rapper. Dude had a dozen donuts with him and he gave me one. For free. It was a Boston creme. True story.
Edit: Thinking about what I wrote was stupid. But I find it funny that the more famous one gets, I'm betting the amount of free shit grows...
Dude, this is ridiculous--and I say that as someone with a subscription to the New Yorker, who reads it cover-to-cover on the train every week and who does not have a blog.
I believe his point was that blogs are like all other forms of media in that making the most out of them requires exercising discernment. If you believe that "traditional formats" are inherently more trustworthy, then you're forgetting that that term includes Vice, The Enquirer, The NY Post, and any number of free publications, etc., etc., etc. "Traditional Formats" is not limited to the Times. You probably do not trust "traditional formats" at all--you trust certain brands that are available in traditional formats. And, similarly, anyone willing to invest a little time can determine what the worthwhile brands in the blog world are that overlap with his interests.
I don't look to the blogosphere as my source of hard news--that's not really what it's for, and maybe that's where your argument is going wrong. I look to them for two things: (i) information on subjects which traditional fromats generally decline to cover or, when they do, are often less than credible, and (ii) for commentary, and you ought to be able to make up your own mind whether you find someone's opinion credible, without depending upon the imprint of The Economist or the Times.
I can't list exceptions to every point I make, I infer on you to read between the lines. When I said traditional media wasn't infallable, it was meant to cover examples you've just cited (Vice, Enquirer, etc). Also I explicitly said the two (blogs/new yorker) are not mutually exclusive to save myself from responding to your claim. Yet I'm doing it now.
Why I chose new yorker as an example is because it does not strictly deal w/ "hard news". Lots of opinion pieces, short stories and such....slight parallel to blogs.
Let me get as explicit as possible, the ratio of good/bad in the traditional media world is much more faovurable than with blogs. It's a needle in a basket vs haystack, thus time invested in blogs would be proportionately higher. Reasons for this are stated in my previous post.
Okay, fine--but the vast majority of worthless blogs are readily identifiable as such. Yes, there are a lot of blogs out there that make no pretense of being devoted to anything other than how their authors are wasting their lives day-by-day, or of the "I'm nobody, but here's what I think of everything" variety. Nobody's going to give somebody like that their own magazine because there's limited public interest and no real return. It takes no real investment of time to determine that that's what you're dealing with and, frankly, I don't know how you'd end up directing your browser towards such a thing, unless a singularly boring friend recommended it to you.
But that's not an argument for wholly ignoring the medium and the blogs that are devoted to subjects that interest you, that are underserved by traditional media, and that are authored by people whose sensibilities and intelligence you can appreciate. And, yes, without having any real idea what you're into, I can still guarantee that such blogs exist.
If you were my 70 year old aunt, I'd let it go, but it's astounding to me that somebody would use a message board to spout such foolishness. You honestly sound like somebody trying to convince himself that he's not missing out on anything.
Question to Thes and all the other recording artists who have posted in this thread - do any of you NOT have your catalogs licensed to an ad agency/production house? If so why not? They will get you much more cash than if you deal directly with a client. The drawback is that you are then competing with the rest of that agency's roster and that includes some lowest common denominator crap. Still, worth it for just one hit Network-to-Cable ad. You can then be an artist for the rest of the year.
Even though he's licensed stuff correctly, Danno's comp is pretty much like a mixtape in that his comp is his resume and he joins the ranks of quite a few people here who have obtained some sweet gigs from their taste as selectors of other peoples' recordings. I'm a bottom feeder in this but making connections, because that's what it's about at the end of the day. I can make small consulting fees from providing work-to-hire beatmakers with reference material that I grab from my own collection. If I can make it up to the nextlevel I'll make more from royalties. Basically, that's all I have to say on the state of digital media, love it or hate it. Now I'm going to go hug my records.
I work with one of these "get rich quick" guys......the dude always has some idea or invention he's trying to hit it big with......he's sure he's gonna retire on one of these million dollar ideas.
The wierd thing is I started reading this post before work, getting all pissy at downloaders and the state of music in 2007. I get to work and BAM! There it is, multiple copies of Si Para Usted in a box from one of our distros, ready to be displayed and sold to grown ass people whose music collection is a source of pride and can't fit in a shoebox.
And that's I'm really talking about. When everyone ditched their records back in the 90s, some people cleaned up, acquiring massive collections of top notch LPs while the rest of the world scoffed at record players, mesmerized by shiny little silver discs. Now I see those folls rebuying shitty re-issues and talking about the collections they once had. Some day folks might just wake up and realize that their music collection is a hard drive full of shitty sounding MP3s and will be scurrying around trying to buy up hard copies of all those illegally (and legally) downloaded tunes. Because as people get older, they want things they can be proud of, classy things. Not a hard drive and a bunch of markered up CD-Rs. How many times did we hear that "vinyl is dead"? Now where I work there's more growth in records (both new and used) than in CDs. When they declare that "CDs are dead", I'll know that they are more alive than ever, much like records are now.
The best thing about illegal downloading is that now the kids and kid-like adults stay out of the record stores and let grown ups take care of grown up business.
Okay, fine--but the vast majority of worthless blogs are readily identifiable as such. Yes, there are a lot of blogs out there that make no pretense of being devoted to anything other than how their authors are wasting their lives day-by-day, or of the "I'm nobody, but here's what I think of everything" variety. Nobody's going to give somebody like that their own magazine because there's limited public interest and no real return. It takes no real investment of time to determine that that's what you're dealing with and, frankly, I don't know how you'd end up directing your browser towards such a thing, unless a singularly boring friend recommended it to you.
But that's not an argument for wholly ignoring the medium and the blogs that are devoted to subjects that interest you, that are underserved by traditional media, and that are authored by people whose sensibilities and intelligence you can appreciate. And, yes, without having any real idea what you're into, I can still guarantee that such blogs exist.
If you were my 70 year old aunt, I'd let it go, but it's astounding to me that somebody would use a message board to spout such foolishness. You honestly sound like somebody trying to convince himself that he's not missing out on anything.
just in case you missed it from my post.....
I read blogs occasionally, I'll be foolish to ignore it completely. Doesn't mean I can't be frustrated with its current standing.
I am a fan of food blogs, I do lots of restaurant research based on things like that and chowhound. As an avid reader, I admit I spend a relatively small portion of time on blogs compared to other mediums.
Again, filtering through all the junk is what frustrates me. It doesn't help when certain friends fall into the "day to day" blogging variety. The voices worth hearing are unfortunately drowned out by a sea of insecurities rife in the blogging world.
I suspect you will suggest that's grounds for friendship termination.
...wait a minute, isn't there a "secret" forum here for the soulstrut heavyweights to trade music?
The last time I saw someone post a currently in-print LP it was promptly removed.
so if it's old music you can swap freely but if it's new lp's it's a no-no??? what about when the Nas Where Are They Now remixes that weren't "promptly removed"? or the then-unreleased Ghost is Back?
I can see why you'd find my position hypocritical. I hope a few clarifications will help explain where I'm coming from.
First of all, as some folks have pointed out, I don't moderate the realheadz forum. When I browse it, which is infrequently, I make a fuss when I see a record being shared that folks could easily pick-up new. Specifically, I'm thinking of the time someone posted a Soundways comp. I don't have an issue with people sharing out-of-print music even though it may violate copyright. If there's no reasonable way of paying the licensing fee (i.e. buying a new CD), then I don't see much harm done.
Secondly, I don't read every Crate Digging thread. This is especially so for any thread with "Bjork" or--yeah, I'm going to say it--hiphop producers in the title. I don't have the time to mod every thread, so I stick to the 2/3s that strike my interest and everything that is obviously in need of moderating. I figure the other mods will cover what I don't. So I rarely know when folks are sharing that kind of music.
Do I approve of it? I have no problem with sharing a handful of tracks from an LP like folks did in the Bjork thread. I did it with mine and I'm happy with bloggers doing the same. But when you're sending the whole LP with the cover art I think your into problematic territory. When I'm aware of it, I deal with it.
So yeah, I may not be the best mod, but I'd like to think there's some reason to my actions beyond hypocrisy.
Okay, fine--but the vast majority of worthless blogs are readily identifiable as such. Yes, there are a lot of blogs out there that make no pretense of being devoted to anything other than how their authors are wasting their lives day-by-day, or of the "I'm nobody, but here's what I think of everything" variety. Nobody's going to give somebody like that their own magazine because there's limited public interest and no real return. It takes no real investment of time to determine that that's what you're dealing with and, frankly, I don't know how you'd end up directing your browser towards such a thing, unless a singularly boring friend recommended it to you.
But that's not an argument for wholly ignoring the medium and the blogs that are devoted to subjects that interest you, that are underserved by traditional media, and that are authored by people whose sensibilities and intelligence you can appreciate. And, yes, without having any real idea what you're into, I can still guarantee that such blogs exist.
If you were my 70 year old aunt, I'd let it go, but it's astounding to me that somebody would use a message board to spout such foolishness. You honestly sound like somebody trying to convince himself that he's not missing out on anything.
just in case you missed it from my post.....
I read blogs occasionally, I'll be foolish to ignore it completely. Doesn't mean I can't be frustrated with its current standing.
I am a fan of food blogs, I do lots of restaurant research based on things like that and chowhound. As an avid reader, I admit I spend a relatively small portion of time on blogs compared to other mediums.
Again, filtering through all the junk is what frustrates me. It doesn't help when certain friends fall into the "day to day" blogging variety. The voices worth hearing are unfortunately drowned out by a sea of insecurities rife in the blogging world.
I suspect you will suggest that's grounds for friendship termination.
Well, I can't really imagine being friends with the type of person that would have a personal emo blog to begin with. Or reading such a thing, written by a friend or anybody else.
of course it's fucked up, but it's interesting he doesn't have shit to say when it comes to Bjork (which is still up on a site he's supposed to regulate). why is that? I mean you're not even creating anything - you just had the dough to roll to Cuba and buy some records. How does that give you the right to get all uppity?
You're right: I couldn't have released my comp without start-up money. I'm not sure this is unusual; just about any business needs some cash to get off the ground.
However, as some folks kindly pointed out, releasing the comp was a lot more than going to Cuba and buying some records. Just to reach the point where I could think about what records to include on the comp required months of agonising and ridiculously frustrating negotiations with the Cuban government. I won't bore you with any more details, but it's extremely misleading to characterise reissuing music as no more than a record buying trip.
Why do I get "uppity"? Earlier in the thread I conceded that my frustration is naive and probably misplaced, but it comes from the fact that all I've done is reissue music. I'm not an artist; I can't tour or sell band merchandise and I have no sentiments about spreading my art. All I've done is make otherwise inaccessible music (at least inaccessible to anybody who isn't collecting vintage records) widely available in a nice package with reasonably helpful notes. I did this at significant personal expense. So, when I see people sharing it freely, I think to myself: "Wait a minute, I spent many thousands of dollars to make this music available and sounding better than ever. Why should the people who are listening to it thanks to my efforts avoid covering the cost of bringing it to them"?
Yes, I'm glad people are listening to what I think is great music, but unless they pay for the privilege, I won't be able to a second volume or any of the other projects I want to release. Fortunately, the CD is being really well received and I'm chugging towards to breaking even. My hope is to make enough to cover the initial costs of future projects, not to strike it rich.
Everyone seems to be buddies with yo-i-got-beats and not willing to say it, but I think it was pretty bush league to shit all over the effort put into making this comp as if it were nothing, as if no work, money, or devotion were involved. Personally I think people willing to spend their time trying to legally share rare & obscure music with the world AND get the artists paid money they would never get otherwise deserve RESPECT and not DERISION.
I'm actually cool with Danno (and I hope still) and Dan, if you feel like I'm shitting on you I apoligize.
Again, not saying his work and effort isn't valid, but just that maybe he might want to have the same empathy and concerns for other people's work that he regards for his. As a moderator of this site, he can set rules. One song is cool but an album is a no-no?
And as someone who's put out records that people have since bootlegged, I'd much prefer cats found out about my ish the way it was originally released rather than a revised Interpretation for those who didn't catch it the first time around. so maybe that's my bias on the whole subject.
There is also the major point that because the comp is FULLY LICENSED, every record Dan convinces someone to purchase puts money in the pockets of the original artists as well as his own. Illegal downloading hurts the artists as much as it hurts him. He should do all he can to be their advocate.
Back in 2000, when i first started, I used to write poetic philosophical shit. And used to think, every one was lame for writing an online diary. "I got some new gear today! Disneyland was Fabulous! I thought I would get at least 2 B's this quarter, but ended up getting straight A's!" I don't know when I made the switch, but fast forward to 2007, and I use the blog to gather my thoughts, post pictures of digs/hiking, sometimes get emo, etc. It's not much different from those I was critical of.
Comments
I'm actually cool with Danno (and I hope still) and Dan, if you feel like I'm shitting on you I apoligize.
Again, not saying his work and effort isn't valid, but just that maybe he might want to have the same empathy and concerns for other people's work that he regards for his. As a moderator of this site, he can set rules. One song is cool but an album is a no-no?
And as someone who's put out records that people have since bootlegged, I'd much prefer cats found out about my ish the way it was originally released rather than a revised Interpretation for those who didn't catch it the first time around. so maybe that's my bias on the whole subject.
One day he's chewing my ear off about how he's applied for a patent on a planter made out of a gallon Milk container.......and how this is "the big one".
So rather than amuse him and just shake my head, I'm my usual dickself and start asking him about pricing, distribution, manufacturing.
The dude is clueless, doesn't have the slightest idea how to make or market his idea.
Then I ask him if he's done any market research and how he's so sure his idea will take off.
And his reply was pure comedy....
"Well, my wife and I made some and put them outside our house and they were stolen!! So obviously SOMEBODY likes them"!!!!!
Somehow, after two Chimay's, this seemed like an appropriate story for this thread.
Please show me where Danno is saying "I need that paper!" I really don't understand where the "pitched it to a label that knew what they were doing" part comes in either, as music gets downloaded regardless of the label's competence. You are taking what may be valid points but exaggerating them unecessarily and choosing to be pretty mean-spirited about it.
Remember why you did this in the first place. Was it a labor of love? Was it to make money? Does file-sharing prevent you from reaching your initial goal with this compilation? If money is your goal, fight it (but think carefully about what will actually help or hurt sales, rather than just fighting on principle). If your goal was to introduce people to good music and give some long-forgotten artists some recognition, let it go and enjoy the fact that so many people enjoy the CD and are appreciative of what you've done.
*Edited to point out that the next two paragraphs are not directed at Danno, but at the conversation in general:
My problem with too many artists is they want to have their cake and eat it too. They want their acclaim and recognition to be as widespread as possible, but they don't want to lose a single penny in the process. "I want you to hear what I'm offering, but you have to pay me first" is not the best business model. Yes, it has been around for a long time, but mainly for a lack of decent alternatives.
If you can get paid by having fun and doing something you love, awesome. But if you are mad at not getting paid for doing something you would be doing anyway, you might want to reassess your priorities.
He is just using the board as an outlet for his frustrations, a recurring theme for the majority of posts on soulstrut.
Dude, this is ridiculous--and I say that as someone with a subscription to the New Yorker, who reads it cover-to-cover on the train every week and who does not have a blog.
I believe his point was that blogs are like all other forms of media in that making the most out of them requires exercising discernment. If you believe that "traditional formats" are inherently more trustworthy, then you're forgetting that that term includes Vice, The Enquirer, The NY Post, and any number of free publications, etc., etc., etc. "Traditional Formats" is not limited to the Times. You probably do not trust "traditional formats" at all--you trust certain brands that are available in traditional formats. And, similarly, anyone willing to invest a little time can determine what the worthwhile brands in the blog world are that overlap with his interests.
I don't look to the blogosphere as my source of hard news--that's not really what it's for, and maybe that's where your argument is going wrong. I look to them for two things: (i) information on subjects which traditional formats generally decline to cover or, when they do, are often less than credible, and (ii) for commentary, and you ought to be able to make up your own mind whether you find someone's opinion credible, without depending upon the imprint of The Economist or the Times.
Yo, I was at the donut store this morning and started thinking, you know why should I have to pay for this donut? I've bought mad pastries here for many years. I've told all my homies about this spot AND I've even shared some donuts with cats. They all will probably for sure stop through here and Buy a donut when they come through my part of town. In fact, I've given this here donut shop so much props and free exposure that they should be giving me donuts on the strength. In fact, you know what, Ima just take the donut when they aren't looking because I know they would agree the fact that I at least earned this donut if they were to see me swipe it. And, plus, you know todays donut batch could not taste good so I should be able to try at least this one. Plus, I mean it's only 55 cents so it's not like it's hurt them with their fancy shmancy cooler and neon sign. I don't even think stealing something worth only 55 cents is even a crime. You know what, I'ma tell my homies they keep going in the back to bake so we can all get some.
They should be happy we like their donuts.
Anyone can make donuts, shit I could make these at home. They should be happy I even know they sell them. Shit.
(just doing my part to up the page count! carry on)
right on.
My problem isn't with Dan either. I actually bought the album and love it. I just don't know if I'm more amazed at Dan not expecting it to be ripped/posted on blogs (that happends to most albums that are amazing), or the hypocracy of the other dudes backing him up with some "yeah, downloading albums is morally wrong" yet that shit happens all over this place.
Fuck it, I should start charging people to hear me talk. They're my thoughts and ideas being expressed, right? Why should anyone be able to listen to them, think about them, or even repeat them as their own anytime they want? Dudes are ruining my livelihood with all this "free conversation" bullsh*t.
I pay to post here!!
This from a dude who hasn't even fully licensed his DNA from his parents yet. Hypocritters everywhere these days.
No, that was covered in the grandfather clause
FUCKDAMN! I was about to search this one out!
I can't list exceptions to every point I make, I infer on you to read between the lines. When I said traditional media wasn't infallable, it was meant to cover examples you've just cited (Vice, Enquirer, etc). Also I explicitly said the two (blogs/new yorker) are not mutually exclusive to save myself from responding to your claim. Yet I'm doing it now.
Why I chose new yorker as an example is because it does not strictly deal w/ "hard news". Lots of opinion pieces, short stories and such....slight parallel to blogs.
Let me get as explicit as possible, the ratio of good/bad in the traditional media world is much more faovurable than with blogs. It's a needle in a basket vs haystack, thus time invested in blogs would be proportionately higher. Reasons for this are stated in my previous post.
In response to noz's reply, my point still stands. The double edged sword of blogs lies with its accessibility. I am glad it has worked out for him though.
I read blogs occasionally, I'll be foolish to ignore it completely. Doesn't mean I can't be frustrated with its current standing.
Finally, there is no accounting for personal taste. My online reading habits tend to veer towards "hard news". I think most people I IM regularly can attest to that. Considering the number of bbc links I annoy people with each day...
Post count bump...
Oh shit, this reminds me of a time I had some money in a show and an artist (Not even on the bill) expected him and all his friends to get in for free. Cause he had a record playing on the radio. Naw, that story sucks... OK, this one time an artist came thru my store and wanted his purchase for nothing. Nooo that shit sucks also. OK, this one time my gurl was working at a clothing spot and an R&B dude... Fuck I should just quit, cause probably a few dozen of these suck.
OK... This one time. I was in NYC and I was with a certain well known label rep. And we end up with a certain well known rapper. Dude had a dozen donuts with him and he gave me one. For free. It was a Boston creme. True story.
Edit: Thinking about what I wrote was stupid. But I find it funny that the more famous one gets, I'm betting the amount of free shit grows...
Okay, fine--but the vast majority of worthless blogs are readily identifiable as such. Yes, there are a lot of blogs out there that make no pretense of being devoted to anything other than how their authors are wasting their lives day-by-day, or of the "I'm nobody, but here's what I think of everything" variety. Nobody's going to give somebody like that their own magazine because there's limited public interest and no real return. It takes no real investment of time to determine that that's what you're dealing with and, frankly, I don't know how you'd end up directing your browser towards such a thing, unless a singularly boring friend recommended it to you.
But that's not an argument for wholly ignoring the medium and the blogs that are devoted to subjects that interest you, that are underserved by traditional media, and that are authored by people whose sensibilities and intelligence you can appreciate. And, yes, without having any real idea what you're into, I can still guarantee that such blogs exist.
If you were my 70 year old aunt, I'd let it go, but it's astounding to me that somebody would use a message board to spout such foolishness. You honestly sound like somebody trying to convince himself that he's not missing out on anything.
Even though he's licensed stuff correctly, Danno's comp is pretty much like a mixtape in that his comp is his resume and he joins the ranks of quite a few people here who have obtained some sweet gigs from their taste as selectors of other peoples' recordings. I'm a bottom feeder in this but making connections, because that's what it's about at the end of the day. I can make small consulting fees from providing work-to-hire beatmakers with reference material that I grab from my own collection. If I can make it up to the nextlevel I'll make more from royalties. Basically, that's all I have to say on the state of digital media, love it or hate it. Now I'm going to go hug my records.
Did he come up with this one?
http://technabob.com/blog/2007/04/10/the-hamster-powered-paper-shredder/
Cause it's fucking brilliant.
And that's I'm really talking about. When everyone ditched their records back in the 90s, some people cleaned up, acquiring massive collections of top notch LPs while the rest of the world scoffed at record players, mesmerized by shiny little silver discs. Now I see those folls rebuying shitty re-issues and talking about the collections they once had. Some day folks might just wake up and realize that their music collection is a hard drive full of shitty sounding MP3s and will be scurrying around trying to buy up hard copies of all those illegally (and legally) downloaded tunes. Because as people get older, they want things they can be proud of, classy things. Not a hard drive and a bunch of markered up CD-Rs. How many times did we hear that "vinyl is dead"? Now where I work there's more growth in records (both new and used) than in CDs. When they declare that "CDs are dead", I'll know that they are more alive than ever, much like records are now.
The best thing about illegal downloading is that now the kids and kid-like adults stay out of the record stores and let grown ups take care of grown up business.
SONIC
just in case you missed it from my post.....
I am a fan of food blogs, I do lots of restaurant research based on things like that and chowhound. As an avid reader, I admit I spend a relatively small portion of time on blogs compared to other mediums.
Again, filtering through all the junk is what frustrates me. It doesn't help when certain friends fall into the "day to day" blogging variety. The voices worth hearing are unfortunately drowned out by a sea of insecurities rife in the blogging world.
I suspect you will suggest that's grounds for friendship termination.
I can see why you'd find my position hypocritical. I hope a few clarifications will help explain where I'm coming from.
First of all, as some folks have pointed out, I don't moderate the realheadz forum. When I browse it, which is infrequently, I make a fuss when I see a record being shared that folks could easily pick-up new. Specifically, I'm thinking of the time someone posted a Soundways comp. I don't have an issue with people sharing out-of-print music even though it may violate copyright. If there's no reasonable way of paying the licensing fee (i.e. buying a new CD), then I don't see much harm done.
Secondly, I don't read every Crate Digging thread. This is especially so for any thread with "Bjork" or--yeah, I'm going to say it--hiphop producers in the title. I don't have the time to mod every thread, so I stick to the 2/3s that strike my interest and everything that is obviously in need of moderating. I figure the other mods will cover what I don't. So I rarely know when folks are sharing that kind of music.
Do I approve of it? I have no problem with sharing a handful of tracks from an LP like folks did in the Bjork thread. I did it with mine and I'm happy with bloggers doing the same. But when you're sending the whole LP with the cover art I think your into problematic territory. When I'm aware of it, I deal with it.
So yeah, I may not be the best mod, but I'd like to think there's some reason to my actions beyond hypocrisy.
Well, I can't really imagine being friends with the type of person that would have a personal emo blog to begin with. Or reading such a thing, written by a friend or anybody else.
You're right: I couldn't have released my comp without start-up money. I'm not sure this is unusual; just about any business needs some cash to get off the ground.
However, as some folks kindly pointed out, releasing the comp was a lot more than going to Cuba and buying some records. Just to reach the point where I could think about what records to include on the comp required months of agonising and ridiculously frustrating negotiations with the Cuban government. I won't bore you with any more details, but it's extremely misleading to characterise reissuing music as no more than a record buying trip.
Why do I get "uppity"? Earlier in the thread I conceded that my frustration is naive and probably misplaced, but it comes from the fact that all I've done is reissue music. I'm not an artist; I can't tour or sell band merchandise and I have no sentiments about spreading my art. All I've done is make otherwise inaccessible music (at least inaccessible to anybody who isn't collecting vintage records) widely available in a nice package with reasonably helpful notes. I did this at significant personal expense. So, when I see people sharing it freely, I think to myself: "Wait a minute, I spent many thousands of dollars to make this music available and sounding better than ever. Why should the people who are listening to it thanks to my efforts avoid covering the cost of bringing it to them"?
Yes, I'm glad people are listening to what I think is great music, but unless they pay for the privilege, I won't be able to a second volume or any of the other projects I want to release. Fortunately, the CD is being really well received and I'm chugging towards to breaking even. My hope is to make enough to cover the initial costs of future projects, not to strike it rich.
There is also the major point that because the comp is FULLY LICENSED, every record Dan convinces someone to purchase puts money in the pockets of the original artists as well as his own.
Illegal downloading hurts the artists as much as it hurts him. He should do all he can to be their advocate.
I can't see how this can be considered selfish.
Back in 2000, when i first started, I used to write poetic philosophical shit.
And used to think, every one was lame for writing an online diary. "I got some new gear today! Disneyland was Fabulous! I thought I would get at least 2 B's this quarter, but ended up getting straight A's!" I don't know when I made the switch, but fast forward to 2007, and I use the blog to gather my thoughts, post pictures of digs/hiking, sometimes get emo, etc. It's not much different from those I was critical of.
a little mind twisting never hurts. Sometimes its good to be wrong because you can find an answer. Im not picking sides, but we know the obvious.