I think you underestimate the appeal of McCain to center-conservative people who vote.
maybe if it was 2000 ... just watch how stiffly the dude moves when giving speeches . awkward.
Oh, I know - dude looks like he might smell faintly of the nursing home. What did Adam Sandler say? "Wrinkled chest and old balls"?
But seriously... when I'm outside of NYC I talk to a lot of folks more conservative than myself, most recently I spent several days in Henderson NV and people I talked to liked Biden and McCain. Obama: "too young, no experience" Hillary: "No, just no." Romney: "Seems fake", Giuliani... well I made sure they wouldn't vote for Giuliani.
Just saying, it's a big country, you, Oliver, and some others sound like you don't leave the city an awful lot.
I think you underestimate the appeal of McCain to center-conservative people who vote.
Sure but while that could make him a very compelling 3rd party candidate, you really think he's going to come storming back in the GOP race? I'd rather see him over most of the rest of the field but he's gotten so little love it seems.
I'm just mixing a bit of devil's advocate with general caution about getting over-excited. This is the Democratic Party we're talking about - they can fuck up anything.
Gov. Deval Patrick published this Obama endorsement today:
Why America needs Obama Email|Print| Text size ??? + By Deval Patrick January 5, 2008
I AM proud to be a Democrat, but sometimes Democratic politics can be tiresome.
For years, candidates have appealed to voters by arguing how they can win or why any Democrat would be better than any Republican. They miss the fact that voters are more interested in why Democrats should win than how we will. They mistakenly believe that discontent with Republicans will assure a Democratic victory, when in truth most of us aren't buying 100 percent of what either party is selling. So, election after election, we end up with the same old debate and commentary about competing electoral tactics rather than a vision for the future.
We have a chance this time to choose a different kind of candidate, a different kind of president.
Barack Obama is the only candidate in the field who has demonstrated the ability to unite people across differences around common cause.
From his work in Chicago neighborhoods, to the Illinois Senate, to the US Senate, to his success in campaigning for other candidates in so-called red states like Missouri, Nebraska, Tennessee, and Virginia, Obama has shown an uncommon ability to work across differences and get meaningful results. Applying that talent to a vision for a better, safer, more just, and more prosperous American future could not come a moment too soon.
We face profound challenges. The Bush administration has been ineffective in foreign policy and absent in domestic policy. While our troops are performing well abroad, their mission was poorly conceived and their exit strategy nonexistent. At home, the poor are in terrible shape and the middle class are one month away from being poor. Healthcare and college costs are getting further and further out of reach, roads and bridges are in disrepair, and a lot of the people in power have spent more time denying climate change than trying to defeat it. Everyday people are anxious, and their anxiety knows no party.
America needs Obama.
He has comprehensive plans to end the war in Iraq, provide universal healthcare, lift up schools, and to save the planet. I like many of his ideas. But frankly most candidates in the race - Democrat and Republican - have a couple of good ideas. What I want, and what I sense the American people want, is more than good policy. We want great leadership.
This is where Barack Obama rises above the field. Instead of calculation or connections, he has risen on convictions. Instead of stoking partisan anger, he calls on our common aspirations. Instead of the right and the left, he is focused on right and wrong. At a time when so many of us - Democrats, Republicans, and independents - are tired of petty division and desperate for change, Obama makes a claim on all of us to join in restoring the American dream. His leadership is about articulating a vision and motivating others to reach for it.
That is why Obama consistently polls higher with independents and Republicans than any other Democrat. That is why he is greeted by crowds made up of every kind of person, from all kinds of backgrounds. That is why he won the Iowa caucuses on Thursday. That is why he has received more than 750,000 donations, mostly from small donors, and signed up a half-million supporters from all age groups, states, races, and political affiliations - many of them involved in the process for the first time. When people try to imagine the kind of leadership they want and know we need, the image that comes to many minds is Obama.
And here is where the wise guys and gals come in. The political commentators and self-appointed experts start telling us that we can't have what we want. I heard that throughout my own campaign. I ask the people of America to do now what I asked the people of Massachusetts to do: take a chance not so much on a candidate, but on your own aspirations. If we do, then Obama wins - and so do we.
Once in a generation, a candidate comes along who is committed to more than succeeding at the partisan food fight in Washington. Once in a generation, a candidate comes along who is both book smart and street smart, who is equally at ease with the meek and the mighty - and perhaps most especially with himself. Once in a generation, we get the opportunity to take a quantum leap forward in our politics. Barack Obama is that candidate and this is our opportunity. I don't care if it's not his turn, because I know in my head and in my heart that it is his time.
one more thing and im done - even george will prefers obama this article is entertaining, dude is a good writer and i agree w/ him about what grates re: edwards funny tho how desperate he is to accuse huckabee of violating the fusion between cultural and economic conservatives ... economic conservatives haven't exactly gone crazy trying to pass all the cultural conservative measures on a national level, but they have used them to fan the flames of GOP votes, then when this trick is turned on them they get mad.
Iowa's Histrionic Hucksters
By George F. Will Sunday, January 6, 2008; Page B07
Like Job after losing his camels and acquiring boils, the conservative movement is in distress. Mike Huckabee shreds the compact that has held the movement's two tendencies in sometimes uneasy equipoise. Social conservatives, many of whom share Huckabee's desire to "take back this nation for Christ," have collaborated with limited-government, market-oriented, capitalism-defending conservatives who want to take back the nation for James Madison. Under the doctrine that conservatives call "fusion," each faction has respected the other's agenda. Huckabee aggressively repudiates the Madisonians.
He and John Edwards, flaunting their histrionic humility in order to promote their curdled populism, hawked strikingly similar messages in Iowa, encouraging self-pity and economic hypochondria. Edwards and Huckabee lament a shrinking middle class. Well.
Economist Stephen Rose, defining the middle class as households with annual incomes between $30,000 and $100,000, says a smaller percentage of Americans are in that category than in 1979 -- because the percentage of Americans earning more than $100,000 has doubled, from 12 to 24, while the percentage earning less than $30,000 is unchanged. "So," Rose says, "the entire 'decline' of the middle class came from people moving up the income ladder." Even as housing values declined in 2007, the net worth of households increased.
Huckabee told heavily subsidized Iowa -- Washington's ethanol enthusiasm has farm values and incomes soaring -- that Americans striving to rise are "pushed down every time they try by their own government." Edwards, synthetic candidate of theatrical bitterness on behalf of America's crushed, groaning majority, says the rich have an "iron-fisted grip" on democracy and a "stranglehold" on the economy. Strangely, these fists have imposed a tax code that makes the top 1 percent of earners pay 39 percent of all income tax revenue, the top 5 percent pay 60 percent and the bottom 50 percent only 3 percent.
According to Edwards, the North Carolina of his youth resembled Chechnya today -- "I had to fight to survive. I mean really. Literally." Huckabee, a compound of Uriah Heep, Elmer Gantry and Richard Nixon, preens about his humble background: "In my family, 'summer' was never a verb." Nixon, who maundered about his parents' privations and his wife's cloth coat, followed Lyndon Johnson, another miscast president whose festering resentments and status anxieties colored his conduct of office. Here we go again?
Huckabee fancies himself persecuted by the Republican "establishment," a creature already negligible by 1964, when it failed to stop Barry Goldwater's nomination. The establishment's voice, the New York Herald Tribune, expired in 1966. Huckabee says that "only one explanation" fits his Iowa success "and it's not a human one. It's the same power that helped a little boy with two fish and five loaves feed a crowd of 5,000 people." God so loves Huckabee's politics that He worked a Midwest miracle on his behalf? Should someone so delusional control nuclear weapons?
Speaking of delusions, Edwards seems unaware that the world market sets the price of oil. He says a $100-a-barrel price is evidence of -- surging demand in India and China? Unrest in Nigeria's oil fields? No, "corporate greed." That is Edwards's explanation of every unpleasantness. Mitt Romney's versatility of conviction, although it repelled Iowans, has been a modest makeover compared with Edwards's personality transplant. The sunny Southerner of 2004 has become the angry paladin of the suffering multitudes, to whom he shouts: "Treat these people the way they treat you!" Presumably he means treat "the rich" badly -- an odious exhortation to one portion of Americans regarding another.
Although Huckabee and Edwards profess to loathe and vow to change Washington's culture, each would aggravate its toxicity. Each overflows with and wallows in the pugnacity of the self-righteous who discern contemptible motives behind all disagreements with them and who therefore think that opponents are enemies and differences are unsplittable.
The way to achieve Edwards's and Huckabee's populist goal of reducing the role of "special interests," meaning money, in government is to reduce the role of government in distributing money. But populists want to sharply increase that role by expanding the regulatory state's reach and enlarging its agenda of determining the distribution of wealth. Populists, who are slow learners, cannot comprehend this iron law: Concentrate power in Washington, and you increase the power of interests whose representatives are concentrated there. Barack Obama, who might be mercifully closing the Clinton parenthesis in presidential history, is refreshingly cerebral amid this recrudescence of the paranoid style in American politics. He is the un-Edwards and un-Huckabee -- an adult aiming to reform the real world rather than an adolescent fantasizing mock-heroic "fights" against fictitious villains in a left-wing cartoon version of this country. [/b]
huckabee stands no chance of winning a national election, barring the following:
He makes a deal with the Republican power elite.
Huckabee might be in a meeting with Karen Hughes, James Baker and the head of the oil lobby right now. He's no fool, he would gladly give up a state department appointment and a pentagon position to be named later to get the money people behind him.
He is no more unelectable than GW was before he got the nod.
The rest of the country will look at these results and will now feel more comfortable voting for Barack because folks in Iowa did.
huh?
One of my fave things to do on SS is explaining my posts to Soul On Ice.
I believe that a lot of people looked at Obama 6 months ago and thought "I like him but mainstream America won't vote for a black man"
After Iowa they are saying, "Oh shit, mainstream America WILL vote for a black man, let's do this"!!
If you will pay 1/2 I am willing to open up a toll free phone number so that you can call me personally and I can explain each of my posts to you.
1-800-IAM-SLOW
Let's do this!!!
I guess I'm just not as cynical as you.
But it also doesn't surprise me that you underestimate the intelligence and convictions of most of America as much as you do most members of Soul Strut.
huckabee stands no chance of winning a national election, barring the following:
He makes a deal with the Republican power elite.
Huckabee might be in a meeting with Karen Hughes, James Baker and the head of the oil lobby right now. He's no fool, he would gladly give up a state department appointment and a pentagon position to be named later to get the money people behind him.
He is no more unelectable than GW was before he got the nod.
gw was much stronger on all three prongs of the gop tripod
best believe that huckabee has no intention in selling out his economic principles ... which is why people like him. even if his economic principles are NUTS they are populist and he stands by those principles
or at least thats the perception. if he starts flaking he'll just turn into another mccain
I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the American majority's political leanings.
You really, really need to spend more time on the "other" side if you want to understand why Bush got re-elected, or why Clinton might be unelectable. Shit, even spend some time in an office of a big corporation. I worked in San Francisco and the majority of my office voted for Bush.
You mean like the part of Texas that had Rock convinced Rosie ODonnell was going to be a major isssue in the election?
I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the American majority's political leanings.
You really, really need to spend more time on the "other" side if you want to understand why Bush got re-elected, or why Clinton might be unelectable. Shit, even spend some time in an office of a big corporation. I worked in San Francisco and the majority of my office voted for Bush.
You mean like the part of Texas that had Rock convinced Rosie ODonnell was going to be a major isssue in the election?
Luckily for the left......her pulpit was taken away.
You don't think she would had at least SOME of the power that Oprah has flexed??
The rest of the country will look at these results and will now feel more comfortable voting for Barack because folks in Iowa did.
huh?
One of my fave things to do on SS is explaining my posts to Soul On Ice.
I believe that a lot of people looked at Obama 6 months ago and thought "I like him but mainstream America won't vote for a black man"
After Iowa they are saying, "Oh shit, mainstream America WILL vote for a black man, let's do this"!!
If you will pay 1/2 I am willing to open up a toll free phone number so that you can call me personally and I can explain each of my posts to you.
1-800-IAM-SLOW
Let's do this!!!
I guess I'm just not as cynical as you.
But it also doesn't surprise me that you underestimate the intelligence and convictions of most of America as much as you do most members of Soul Strut.
First off....it's always better to underestimate than overestimate.
Secondly, partisan politics are NOT about picking the candidate that you feel have the best ideas and ideals, it's ultimately about picking the candidate that you think has the best chance to win for your party.
The outcome in Iowa gives the Dems more confidence that Barack can win.
Right - but I'm just saying, no way is she shaping the race in at all the same way. She's a clown no matter what your political stripe is.
Back when I made that statement Rosie was the #1 news story in the U.S. and her clown-like behavior was fodder for every talk radio host in the country.
The buzz was "this is your typical left wing loony" and all I said was that would do more harm to the Dems than good and she should keep her mouth shut if she truly wanted the Dems to win.
She's faded away into obscurity and everyone is better off for it.
Right - but I'm just saying, no way is she shaping the race in at all the same way. She's a clown no matter what your political stripe is.
Back when I made that statement Rosie was the #1 news story in the U.S. and her clown-like behavior was fodder for every talk radio host in the country.
Right - but I'm just saying, no way is she shaping the race in at all the same way. She's a clown no matter what your political stripe is.
Back when I made that statement Rosie was the #1 news story in the U.S. and her clown-like behavior was fodder for every talk radio host in the country.
This just in from CNN:
"Could Britney Spears impact the 2008 election?"
Are all the political radio shows talking about her??
Has she made any politically charged statements??
Does she have a TV show that 20 million yentas watch every day.
You best believe this, if 12 year olds could vote, Britney certainly COULD have an impact.
I'm just having fun with you in a good-natured way.
The point is that the way that news cycles turn over, what does being #1 really mean at any given time? I'm not, at all, discounting the power of talk radio but their focus tends to shift targets depending on what's blowing whichever way.
Right - but I'm just saying, no way is she shaping the race in at all the same way. She's a clown no matter what your political stripe is.
Back when I made that statement Rosie was the #1 news story in the U.S. and her clown-like behavior was fodder for every talk radio host in the country.
This just in from CNN:
"Could Britney Spears impact the 2008 election?"
Are all the political radio shows talking about her??
Has she made any politically charged statements??
Does she have a TV show that 20 million yentas watch every day.
You best believe this, if 12 year olds could vote, Britney certainly COULD have an impact.
im not really paying attention to whats being written here but i just wanted to say that obama sounds like "the rock" and it would be so awesome if he'd call hilary a "jabroni" and yell
If most adults realize she is a clown, and this CLOWN is an outspoken liberal activist and proud democrat with(at the time) massive media coverage, how can you think that wouldn't have the potential to tender negative results.
Comments
Oh, I know - dude looks like he might smell faintly of the nursing home. What did Adam Sandler say? "Wrinkled chest and old balls"?
But seriously... when I'm outside of NYC I talk to a lot of folks more conservative than myself, most recently I spent several days in Henderson NV and people I talked to liked Biden and McCain. Obama: "too young, no experience" Hillary: "No, just no." Romney: "Seems fake", Giuliani... well I made sure they wouldn't vote for Giuliani.
Just saying, it's a big country, you, Oliver, and some others sound like you don't leave the city an awful lot.
Sure but while that could make him a very compelling 3rd party candidate, you really think he's going to come storming back in the GOP race? I'd rather see him over most of the rest of the field but he's gotten so little love it seems.
I mean I AGREE that the Republican field is terrible and, in case you didn't know, Good Records NYC has already endorsed Obama.
I'm just mixing a bit of devil's advocate with general caution about getting over-excited. This is the Democratic Party we're talking about - they can fuck up anything.
THE REALEST SHIT YOU EVER WROTE.
this article is entertaining, dude is a good writer
and i agree w/ him about what grates re: edwards
funny tho how desperate he is to accuse huckabee of violating the fusion between cultural and economic conservatives ... economic conservatives haven't exactly gone crazy trying to pass all the cultural conservative measures on a national level, but they have used them to fan the flames of GOP votes, then when this trick is turned on them they get mad.
He makes a deal with the Republican power elite.
Huckabee might be in a meeting with Karen Hughes, James Baker and the head of the oil lobby right now. He's no fool, he would gladly give up a state department appointment and a pentagon position to be named later to get the money people behind him.
He is no more unelectable than GW was before he got the nod.
it's going to be a LONG time until Nov.
I guess I'm just not as cynical as you.
But it also doesn't surprise me that you underestimate
the intelligence and convictions of most of America as
much as you do most members of Soul Strut.
best believe that huckabee has no intention in selling out his economic principles ... which is why people like him. even if his economic principles are NUTS they are populist and he stands by those principles
or at least thats the perception. if he starts flaking he'll just turn into another mccain
You mean like the part of Texas that had Rock convinced Rosie ODonnell was going to be a major isssue in the election?
Luckily for the left......her pulpit was taken away.
You don't think she would had at least SOME of the power that Oprah has flexed??
First off....it's always better to underestimate than overestimate.
Secondly, partisan politics are NOT about picking the candidate that you feel have the best ideas and ideals, it's ultimately about picking the candidate that you think has the best chance to win for your party.
The outcome in Iowa gives the Dems more confidence that Barack can win.
Nothing cynical about that whatsoever.
No one in show biz is.
Back when I made that statement Rosie was the #1 news story in the U.S. and her clown-like behavior was fodder for every talk radio host in the country.
The buzz was "this is your typical left wing loony" and all I said was that would do more harm to the Dems than good and she should keep her mouth shut if she truly wanted the Dems to win.
She's faded away into obscurity and everyone is better off for it.
It's a moot point.
This just in from CNN:
"Could Britney Spears impact the 2008 election?"
Are all the political radio shows talking about her??
Has she made any politically charged statements??
Does she have a TV show that 20 million yentas watch every day.
You best believe this, if 12 year olds could vote, Britney certainly COULD have an impact.
And why most adults can see Rosie for what she is no matter WHAT the media has to say about it.
Most Americans distrust the media at least as much as politicians, at this point.
I'm just having fun with you in a good-natured way.
The point is that the way that news cycles turn over, what does being #1 really mean at any given time? I'm not, at all, discounting the power of talk radio but their focus tends to shift targets depending on what's blowing whichever way.
IF YOU SMELLLLLLLLL!!!!!!![/b]
He should ask her if she likes pie.
I really want to believe this.......I just don't.
My mom and all her "red hat ladies" out on the Island love Rosie.
And she has a "hate factor" on the Hillary level.
I am certain she influences at least a segment of our country....but of course I could just be over/underestimating people.
A quick search will find pages like....
Rosie O'Donnell: Liberal Activist, Proud Democrat.
http://usliberals.about.com/od/celebrityactivists/p/RosieProfile.htm
If most adults realize she is a clown, and this CLOWN is an outspoken liberal activist and proud democrat with(at the time) massive media coverage, how can you think that wouldn't have the potential to tender negative results.
We live within the cult of personality.