What if...? (hip hop production related)
mannybolone
Los Angeles, CA 15,025 Posts
What if sampling never had to be cleared? I.e. the courts had decided that sampling wasn't a violation of copyright? Q: How might of this changed the evolution of rap production starting in the mid'90s to present?Q: Would the Triton/Casio era have been inevitable regardless?Q: Would it actually have created better music? Q: Would it have made crate diggin' more or less popular?To give some context, I was listening to some of Biz Markie's old CDs in the car this morning and got to "Alone Again" which is one of the key songs that helped establish precedent on sample clearance and what not. And then I thought about how the Bomb Squad was able to craft their signature sound on the 2nd and 3rd PE albums b/c they had carte blanche more or less to take whatever they wanted and layer it over and over. It's hardly as if sampling-based hip-hop died after the Biz and De La verdicts but many have argued that sampling laws have stymied production b/c of all the legal hassle. As I don't produce, I can't really say whether or not unlimited sampling privileges would actually improve artistic creativity and product however. Just b/c you have no limits doesn't mean thta makes things better by nature, you know?
Comments
You can't really explain to most people why sampling can be mindblowingly brilliant...most people either get it or they don't get it. Even DJ Shadow fanatics who love Endtroducing... and hate hip-hop, most of them don't really understand the nature of all those sample sources, or how he chopped shit like Organ Donor. They've got the concept but not the practical aspects. I don't think a random dude will ever get the satisfaction listening to a Pete Rock beat that I get, because he doesn't understand how the music was constructed.
Would the music be better? Probably. Would we still hear Triton sounds a lot? Probably, but mixed along with other stuff. There's a lot of crunk/hyphy stuff that I can't get enough of, but if sampling persisted as the dominant means of production (fuck this sounds like some Economics shit) that stuff would probably be cast off as dance music and spin off into its own derivatives of hip-hop.
I still think we would have seen jiggy era shit, because the dumbing-down forces of mass media can fuck with sampled music too, and as Diddy's dumbass has shown, sampling a 4-bar loop can result in some pretty crappy music.
More interesting shit: What would happen today if sampling were legalized? Would sampled production reign supreme? I don't think so. When I listen to the hip-hop my sister has grown up with on mtv and whatnot, so much of it has that triton & r&b sound to it that for her, listening to my hip-hop is a completely different genre of music. Game's done changed a lot.
Yep.
Nope.
No effect.
I honestly don't think sampling laws had shit to do with most of it. Lets face it, its a HELL of alot easier to programs a beat on a keyboard then to spend hours, week, month, and years sitting in thrift shops, trolling record stores, going to swap meets, etc, to find all that shit.
I honestly don't think sampling laws had shit to do with most of it. Lets face it, its a HELL of alot easier to programs a beat on a keyboard then to spend hours, week, month, and years sitting in thrift shops, trolling record stores, going to swap meets, etc, to find all that shit.
Where is that eyeroll graemlin?
Where is that eyeroll graemlin?
I'm assuming you know how to play a keyboard and/or sample? I know how to do both. Trust me. Keyboards are WAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYY easier. You can just play whatever is in your head! how is that not easy?!?
I'm assuming you know how to play a keyboard and/or sample? I know how to do both. Trust me. Keyboards are WAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYY easier. You can just play whatever is in your head! how is that not easy?!?
Where are your chart-topping keyboard beatz, Gary? I mean, if it's easy, I can only conclude that you have turned your back on the millions to be made as the next Scott Storch out of a selfless commitment to that real schitt. And for that I salute you.
Everyone give it up for garybull!
Some people may argue that with sampling you don't even need to do that, cause you're looping someone else who played "whatever is in their head" and so is comparatively easier... i'm not saying i agree, or care, either way though, just sayin'
Riiiiighhhhtttt..... So you don't know how to do either then.... do you have any musical talent at all?
and yeah, looping shit up is pretty easy. Its finding the loops that is hard. Playing what you hear in your head is easy.
But if what's in your head sounds like shit, it really doesn't matter. That's why there are so many crappy records out there. People played what was in their head, and recorded a turd.
Do you know how to find a hot loop?
They are on records that come with thweet posters
As a sampling musician who rarely even releases material, I still try my damndest to alter everything I touch beyond recognition. Just cause its more challenging and fun that way. Even if I dont have to worry about clearing laws.
Doesn't mean its not easy to do.
making a beat isn't the same as reciting Liszt. I sequenced a chopin peice on some peice of shit computer that made beeping noises once while I was in the army. Playing it on a piano is difficult as shit. Sequencing the computer beeps to play it was easy enough. It just took time. Which I had plenty of.
Word. That wasn't my point in raising the question. It really has to do with whether sampling laws actually "stifled" creativity in ways that it's been argued/assumed it has.
As a corollary, I'm curious if more lax copyright laws would have impacted crate digging either positively or negatively.
Clearly, this much has not changed...
And I'm saying No. Keyboards developed such a wide range of sounds that its just easier to play that shit yourself than to dig through a million records to find something that fits. People would have gone keyboard laws or no laws.
When I worked at a music store dudes would walk up to a sampler, and usually they wouldn't have any sounds in them, and so people would hit a few buttons, it wouldn't do anything, and then they would walk over to a keyboard and boom- there you go. The drums are already there, the bass, all that shit. People would sit there all day making beats on those keyboards. ITS EASIER. I didn't say it was better or worse (although my personal preference is for sampled beats). I don't understand how you can argue whats easier than what when you have never played a keyboard or never sampled shit. How the fuck would you know what's easier?
Thats like arguing honda vs. toyota and you're not even old enough to even drive yet. jesus.
And just so's you know, I know how to use both.
I actually found myself wondering something similar the other day... how the keyboard sound took over and whether it was inevitable... and I believe it was most definitely inevitable. Pop music just changes that rapidly, and folks would have gotten burnt on the 'old' sound regardless. Hell, sample-based rapp as the dominant form was a relatively short segment of its lifespan anyway.
You are begging for the one Phill_Most to come in here and school you as to how sample-based rapps is That_Real_Schitt, while disco rapps and synth/drum box rapps are not.
on the other hand, there are soooooooooo many ridiculously dope tracks that never got released because of sample clearance. i mean, if an artist finds a sample that fits perfectly with what they are working with and nothing else would be able to replace it, i dont think they should be forced to abandon it because of the laws.
i like beats that incorporate keyboards and samples together like they were one happy group of sounds
Friday Beef Revealed
I called it in the other thread!
And its only thursday afternoon, who knows what will happen tomorrow.
Some thoughts...
Sample laws definetely changed hip hop production though it didn't stop sampling. After the big law suits you saw hip hop production turn away from the multisample songs (beastie boys and De la soul) and instead focusing on songs making use of only one sample. Groups like Mobb Deep took that to an extreme with their monotone productions which where genius in their own right. When sampling where 'legal' or rather 'not yet illegal' you could just throw in another sample if you wanted a change in the music. After sampling laws people started making more creative use of a single sample, because it was to expensive to throw in another sample, they had to make the most of the one they already paid for - like black moon, who as I seem to remember, actually got the original DAT tapes for some of their samplematerial because they figured when they paid anyway they might as well get it all.
So to answer your question about creativity - no it didn't stifle it - but I think it moved it in another direction just as the impact of multisampling was about to really hit.
As for the crate digging thing - I can hardly imagine crate digging being more popular. As prices on records show there are a lot of us trying to get hold of (the same) records. Sampling laws may have had an impact on this in a way that people turned away from the well known songs - except for records where it was a point that the old song should be recognized (puffy) - to the more obscure records. Not that finding rare samples were not there all along but somehow james brown samples where the no 1 choice for some time.
If you are tryin to make money and do shit on a large scale, sampling laws change your approach. Producers doin underground shit have no excuse for not bein creative with samples. Nobody sellin under 100K is gettin looked at by publishing companies.I could do a bomb squad type album on a indie with 500 records combined and nothin would probably happen.