All I can say is that even though I'm not really a working DJ, I use my Serato box to connect:
TTL --> >Serato box --> laptop so I can digitize vinyl and thus far, I've found it to be a very clean, very good transfer. I know it's probably not as good as getting an MBox but without having to spend extra $$$, I'm definitely happy with the quality of the digital file.
i would rather make beats at the house anyway. as i got more exposure in my town i would also always keep in mind not to acquire an inflated ego as most "working" dj's have cuz i seen it ruin good dj's. Folks need to realize that what you say can go a long way.... i seen some of the most reputable dj's in my town go from dope, to being the most hated and lose fanbase because they didn't know how to show folks proper respect. some of you dj's need to come back down to earth though and check yourselves. respect goes a long way.
I'm def gonna get it I'm just an old school dude that hasn't stayed current with technology. Shit I never even got cdjs yet and now those are obsolete. Lol.
Co-sign very glad I didn't buy one of those.
I'm waiting for an all-in-one type deal. Maybe a mixer (that becomes the standard) with built in serato and interface/display (no laptop) with a removable hard drive. Think about that! Just carrying a little external around to gigs. This is what I'm predicting, I know there's a turntable with a removeable hard-drive but that's pretty silly if you ask me (so you need double HD's?). Just waiting for the next standard in this whole tech-revolution. I have a feelings serato will be worthless in a year or 2.
When Final Scratch was starting out, I thought this MP3 stuff was going to be the future. My uncle gave me FS & I demoed the product for him (He was/is involved with vestax). The technology wasn't refined like it is now, but even then you had to be amazed by the possibilities. I'm still not crazy about the sound quality of mp3's - they sound thin & bright - but I'm sure that will change in time, too. These lossless music files are supposed to be the bee's knees. Haven't heard any, tho.
16 bit music (CD quality) will also be a thing of the past in the near future, maybe stereo sound as well. People have been experimenting with very high bit-rates with great success, the sound is apparently so real it's scary. From what I know vinyl is the equivalent/close to 24 bit sound that's why it sounds warmer/thicker then CDs/digital.
I enjoy every one of your posts, Doc McCoy. I just though I would say that.
Seconded. Dude consistently delivers astonishing clarity. I still remember his early(ish) posts on US hip-hop in the UK--crystalline and lethal. I'm a fan.
...
And Vinyl DJs vs. Mp3 DJs is nowhere. If, however, this thread turns into Stage DJs vs. Floor DJs, someone come get me.
And Vinyl DJs vs. Mp3 DJs is nowhere. If, however, this thread turns into Stage DJs vs. Floor DJs, someone come get me.
At the Chicago leg of the SIAM tour, I was confronted by D. Carfagna about our placement on the stage versus being on "the flo." I was about respond when that horrible crackling happened, followed by "Cosmo report to the stage."
From what I know vinyl is the equivalent/close to 24 bit sound that's why it sounds warmer/thicker then CDs/digital.
the main difference is that frequency response of vinyl/analog is that it is infinite, and digital, no matter how high-res is finite...I still, no matter how hi-res a MP3 is, hear that squashed, under water, sound on the hi-end of MP3, especially when pumped through an analog club PA. But I assume in due time, that even club PAs will go straight digital...
I am just glad we can still rock our crowds with a couple 1200s and a couple boxes of 45s...but folks might want new stuff someday and we will be ill-prepared, but for now, I am glad folks are still liking the old stuff...
From what I know vinyl is the equivalent/close to 24 bit sound that's why it sounds warmer/thicker then CDs/digital.
the main difference is that frequency response of vinyl/analog is that it is infinite, and digital, no matter how high-res is finite...I still, no matter how hi-res a MP3 is, hear that squashed, under water, sound on the hi-end of MP3, especially when pumped through an analog club PA. But I assume in due time, that even club PAs will go straight digital...
I am just glad we can still rock our crowds with a couple 1200s and a couple boxes of 45s...but folks might want new stuff someday and we will be ill-prepared, but for now, I am glad folks are still liking the old stuff...
From what I know vinyl is the equivalent/close to 24 bit sound that's why it sounds warmer/thicker then CDs/digital.
the main difference is that frequency response of vinyl/analog is that it is infinite, and digital, no matter how high-res is finite...I still, no matter how hi-res a MP3 is, hear that squashed, under water, sound on the hi-end of MP3, especially when pumped through an analog club PA. But I assume in due time, that even club PAs will go straight digital...
I am just glad we can still rock our crowds with a couple 1200s and a couple boxes of 45s...but folks might want new stuff someday and we will be ill-prepared, but for now, I am glad folks are still liking the old stuff...
the main difference is that frequency response of vinyl/analog is that it is infinite, and digital, no matter how high-res is finite...I still, no matter how hi-res a MP3 is, hear that squashed, under water, sound on the hi-end of MP3, especially when pumped through an analog club PA. But I assume in due time, that even club PAs will go straight digital...
I
Why is the assumption that digital is better? You should check out sound man shorty for some serious analogue systems.
My take on the whole thing is that digital is purely convenient. For a working DJ that's got to be a god send. I just don't like the idea of some idiot downloading lots of tracks in a single day and viola, instant DJ. Of course you need more than this to be a successful (or just working!) DJ. Don't hate the technology just because you can't control how and who uses it.
The biggest misconception of the luddites is that anyone can just download an entire set.
I am not even a "working" DJ - I play for fun, maybe once a month at most - but 75% of what I play, if not more, is ripped from my own collection, which I dug hard for and which many other DJs do not have. I don't profess to be any kind of technical expert behind the wheels, but if someone's inviting me down it's because they want me to play some other shit. I love the fact that I can play records that I don't have to endanger in the process, also records that I sold long ago.
next thing you know, technology will have songs mixing themselves and you won't need your serato.
any thoughts on this ?
i have wondered if Serato is getting us closer to the day where songs can be purchased and mixed without a DJ
You can already do that - it's called ipod "shuffle"
I mean, if you're gonna have a room of a thousand people or more you are going to want a human supervising the proceedings. If you have some little bar or lounge or whatever, you already have owners that just plug in the ipod.
next thing you know, technology will have songs mixing themselves and you won't need your serato.
any thoughts on this ?
i have wondered if Serato is getting us closer to the day where songs can be purchased and mixed without a DJ
I was at a club a little while ago that was playing a pre-recorded mixed set over the system for an hour or two before the djs came on. It was a really good set that seemed to have been recorded exactly for this purpose. People were getting down. However, even though for my money the recorded set was way better than the djs that evening, people still danced harder to the music when there was an actual dj on stage playing the music.
I'm sure that a club could be successful with a computer selecting songs, but I don't think it could ever compare to the sponteneity and intuition of a good dj.
And Vinyl DJs vs. Mp3 DJs is nowhere. If, however, this thread turns into Stage DJs vs. Floor DJs, someone come get me.
At the Chicago leg of the SIAM tour, I was confrontedcarefronted by D. Carfagna about our placement on the stage versus being on "the flo." I was about respond when that horrible crackling happened, followed by "Cosmo report to the stage."
I believe may have witnessed that, James.
I do not recall witnessing that incident specifically, but I was somewhat loosened from my roost, so I probably just missed it whilst taking in the texture of the drift. It does sound familiar, though.
In any event, I can forgive you if you can forgive Chicago for not knowing the words to "Dwyck."
I can see imperfections being magnified on a big sound system if you're playing an MP3, but skeptical if using CDs/FLAC files/etc.
(re: james) The warmth factor is more likely to be attributed to euphonic distortion, an imperfection that has grown into something desirable over the years.
And vinyl does not have infinite bandwidth or resolution. Period. I think you're confusing continuous with infinite, but even then, the playback from a discretely time-sampled system is the same as an continuous analog one at the same bandwidth. It's not like you hear timesteps when throwing on a CD/MP3 or that the vinyl playback has more time resolution. (Besides which, most LPs take from tape sources, so there's an imposed upper frequency limit right there.)
We probably all have CDs that vastly outperform vinyl of the same album/single, and vice versa. Each format has its own quirks, and most of the blame for glaring imperfections as such can be pointed towards improper recording/mastering techniques. Personally, I know that all my chief reasons for buying vinyl over CDs most of the time has nothing to do with imperfections in either format: larger artwork, only available in that format, easier for me to personally rip or download lossless versions of CDs, vinyl is much more ingrained in music so it has more of a cultural artifiact feel, etc.
I think you will find DJs get defensive about their use of Serato when you say things like
i would rather sit at home and wash dishes than watch someone play on serato.
that' how i feel. next thing you know, technology will have songs mixing themselves and you won't need your serato. also, with serato anyone can dj...they may be no good, but as long as they have mp3's, a laptop, and turntables they can do their thing. back then you had to actually dig instead of swapping hard drives with your homeboy and getting dudes music.
Tapes, I see your point, but it's a bit like the whole re-issue thing. Who gives a rats where the music comes from? If a DJ is a good DJ, it's irrelavent of how they got their beats. (Used to fuck me off seeing people with their funk compilations when you know they had no idea about the actual record) The people dancing don't come up and see if I have the original. But when I do my first gig with it, perhaps I should take a box of 45's for the trainspotters, just to keep them happy. I'd rather risk fucking up my Serato vinyl, than my $50 45's. Plus I have TWO, that's right, TWO copies. Now I'm no worldclass DJ, but I do know from experience that it's not always what you play, but how you play it. Having the music, dug up or not, doesn't make you a good DJ. Seems the only way to be real to you is have deep deep pockets, or lots of time to dig. Kind of hard in some places to have access to this. I'l still buy records, but the simple fact is I won't buy as many. And one fo the first things I started to do when I got Serato, was recording all the shit I know I play all the time. I own the LP/45's, so what's the difference?
Talking about when people had to dig? Ebay must really fuck you off then huh and I would then assume you've never bought a record from it? Is it really digging when you buy form a store, cuz you didn't really dig it from someones collection?
I think maybe everyone should give up their MPC's as well and go back to the Fairlight, coz that's the original.
Tapes, I see your point, but it's a bit like the whole re-issue thing. Who gives a rats where the music comes from? If a DJ is a good DJ, it's irrelavent of how they got their beats. (Used to fuck me off seeing people with their funk compilations when you know they had no idea about the actual record) The people dancing don't come up and see if I have the original.
true...but why call yourself a DJ, if you rock comps? If you are going to play some shit off a, say, Gilles Peterson comp, you are basically saying "I am not as good as DJ as Gilles, Gilles has better taste than me, so I will play his selections, he dug them up and made them available to me". Fuck dudes who get paid to DJ stuff like this and claim to soul/funk/jazz DJs. Listen to comps at home for listening pleasure, not to DJ with.
true...but why call yourself a DJ, if you rock comps? If you are going to play some shit off a, say, Gilles Peterson comp, you are basically saying "I am not as good as DJ as Gilles, Gilles has better taste than me, so I will play his selections, he dug them up and made them available to me". Fuck dudes who get paid to DJ stuff like this and claim to soul/funk/jazz DJs. Listen to comps at home for listening pleasure, not to DJ with.
You've never played a track that another DJ "discovered"?
Tapes, I see your point, but it's a bit like the whole re-issue thing. Who gives a rats where the music comes from? If a DJ is a good DJ, it's irrelavent of how they got their beats. (Used to fuck me off seeing people with their funk compilations when you know they had no idea about the actual record) The people dancing don't come up and see if I have the original.
true...but why call yourself a DJ, if you rock comps? If you are going to play some shit off a, say, Gilles Peterson comp, you are basically saying "I am not as good as DJ as Gilles, Gilles has better taste than me, so I will play his selections, he dug them up and made them available to me". Fuck dudes who get paid to DJ stuff like this and claim to soul/funk/jazz DJs. Listen to comps at home for listening pleasure, not to DJ with.
Nono, if I choose to play a track of a comp, then I choose to do so.. Im not playing the track because someone put it on a comp, Its MY choice to play it. I have no problem with DJs rocking comps.
Nono, if I choose to play a track of a comp, then I choose to do so.. Im not playing the track because someone put it on a comp, Its MY choice to play it. I have no problem with DJs rocking comps.
Co-sign. People really shouldn't care about this type of stuff.
Tapes, I see your point, but it's a bit like the whole re-issue thing. Who gives a rats where the music comes from? If a DJ is a good DJ, it's irrelavent of how they got their beats. (Used to fuck me off seeing people with their funk compilations when you know they had no idea about the actual record) The people dancing don't come up and see if I have the original.
true...but why call yourself a DJ, if you rock comps? If you are going to play some shit off a, say, Gilles Peterson comp, you are basically saying "I am not as good as DJ as Gilles, Gilles has better taste than me, so I will play his selections, he dug them up and made them available to me". Fuck dudes who get paid to DJ stuff like this and claim to soul/funk/jazz DJs. Listen to comps at home for listening pleasure, not to DJ with.
Nono, if I choose to play a track of a comp, then I choose to do so.. Im not playing the track because someone put it on a comp, Its MY choice to play it. I have no problem with DJs rocking comps.
All I'll say is, if there's a good song that happens to be raer and on a comp, you best believe I will share that shit with the masses. I think at some point we need to look beyond the medium and focus on the music.
why call yourself a DJ, if you rock comps? If you are going to play some shit off a, say, Gilles Peterson comp, you are basically saying "I am not as good as DJ as Gilles, Gilles has better taste than me, so I will play his selections, he dug them up and made them available to me". Fuck dudes who get paid to DJ stuff like this and claim to soul/funk/jazz DJs. Listen to comps at home for listening pleasure, not to DJ with.
Well, that brings up the subject of DJs who play to show off their taste in music vs. DJs who want to make the crowd happy. A subject I'm not going to touch.
Comments
TTL --> >Serato box --> laptop so I can digitize vinyl and thus far, I've found it to be a very clean, very good transfer. I know it's probably not as good as getting an MBox but without having to spend extra $$$, I'm definitely happy with the quality of the digital file.
How did this shit not get more clown??
Co-sign very glad I didn't buy one of those.
I'm waiting for an all-in-one type deal. Maybe a mixer (that becomes the standard) with built in serato and interface/display (no laptop) with a removable hard drive. Think about that! Just carrying a little external around to gigs. This is what I'm predicting, I know there's a turntable with a removeable hard-drive but that's pretty silly if you ask me (so you need double HD's?). Just waiting for the next standard in this whole tech-revolution. I have a feelings serato will be worthless in a year or 2.
From what I know vinyl is the equivalent/close to 24 bit sound that's why it sounds warmer/thicker then CDs/digital.
...
And Vinyl DJs vs. Mp3 DJs is nowhere. If, however, this thread turns into Stage DJs vs. Floor DJs, someone come get me.
At the Chicago leg of the SIAM tour, I was confronted by D. Carfagna about our placement on the stage versus being on "the flo." I was about respond when that horrible crackling happened, followed by "Cosmo report to the stage."
I believe may have witnessed that, James.
the main difference is that frequency response of vinyl/analog is that it is infinite, and digital, no matter how high-res is finite...I still, no matter how hi-res a MP3 is, hear that squashed, under water, sound on the hi-end of MP3, especially when pumped through an analog club PA. But I assume in due time, that even club PAs will go straight digital...
I am just glad we can still rock our crowds with a couple 1200s and a couple boxes of 45s...but folks might want new stuff someday and we will be ill-prepared, but for now, I am glad folks are still liking the old stuff...
You see? Do YOU homie.
huh?
Why is the assumption that digital is better? You should check out sound man shorty for some serious analogue systems.
My take on the whole thing is that digital is purely convenient. For a working DJ that's got to be a god send. I just don't like the idea of some idiot downloading lots of tracks in a single day and viola, instant DJ. Of course you need more than this to be a successful (or just working!) DJ. Don't hate the technology just because you can't control how and who uses it.
I am not even a "working" DJ - I play for fun, maybe once a month at most - but 75% of what I play, if not more, is ripped from my own collection, which I dug hard for and which many other DJs do not have. I don't profess to be any kind of technical expert behind the wheels, but if someone's inviting me down it's because they want me to play some other shit. I love the fact that I can play records that I don't have to endanger in the process, also records that I sold long ago.
any thoughts on this ?
i have wondered if Serato is getting us closer to the day where songs can be purchased and mixed without a DJ
You can already do that - it's called ipod "shuffle"
I mean, if you're gonna have a room of a thousand people or more you are going to want a human supervising the proceedings. If you have some little bar or lounge or whatever, you already have owners that just plug in the ipod.
Damn......i'm so disconnected from all this schitt
I was at a club a little while ago that was playing a pre-recorded mixed set over the system for an hour or two before the djs came on. It was a really good set that seemed to have been recorded exactly for this purpose. People were getting down. However, even though for my money the recorded set was way better than the djs that evening, people still danced harder to the music when there was an actual dj on stage playing the music.
I'm sure that a club could be successful with a computer selecting songs, but I don't think it could ever compare to the sponteneity and intuition of a good dj.
In any event, I can forgive you if you can forgive Chicago for not knowing the words to "Dwyck."
I'm opennin' a club and puttin' this shit in.
(re: james) The warmth factor is more likely to be attributed to euphonic distortion, an imperfection that has grown into something desirable over the years.
And vinyl does not have infinite bandwidth or resolution. Period. I think you're confusing continuous with infinite, but even then, the playback from a discretely time-sampled system is the same as an continuous analog one at the same bandwidth. It's not like you hear timesteps when throwing on a CD/MP3 or that the vinyl playback has more time resolution. (Besides which, most LPs take from tape sources, so there's an imposed upper frequency limit right there.)
We probably all have CDs that vastly outperform vinyl of the same album/single, and vice versa. Each format has its own quirks, and most of the blame for glaring imperfections as such can be pointed towards improper recording/mastering techniques. Personally, I know that all my chief reasons for buying vinyl over CDs most of the time has nothing to do with imperfections in either format: larger artwork, only available in that format, easier for me to personally rip or download lossless versions of CDs, vinyl is much more ingrained in music so it has more of a cultural artifiact feel, etc.
Tapes, I see your point, but it's a bit like the whole re-issue thing. Who gives a rats where the music comes from? If a DJ is a good DJ, it's irrelavent of how they got their beats. (Used to fuck me off seeing people with their funk compilations when you know they had no idea about the actual record) The people dancing don't come up and see if I have the original. But when I do my first gig with it, perhaps I should take a box of 45's for the trainspotters, just to keep them happy. I'd rather risk fucking up my Serato vinyl, than my $50 45's. Plus I have TWO, that's right, TWO copies. Now I'm no worldclass DJ, but I do know from experience that it's not always what you play, but how you play it. Having the music, dug up or not, doesn't make you a good DJ. Seems the only way to be real to you is have deep deep pockets, or lots of time to dig. Kind of hard in some places to have access to this. I'l still buy records, but the simple fact is I won't buy as many. And one fo the first things I started to do when I got Serato, was recording all the shit I know I play all the time. I own the LP/45's, so what's the difference?
Talking about when people had to dig? Ebay must really fuck you off then huh and I would then assume you've never bought a record from it? Is it really digging when you buy form a store, cuz you didn't really dig it from someones collection?
I think maybe everyone should give up their MPC's as well and go back to the Fairlight, coz that's the original.
I think 'Virtual DJ' for PC may do this. I saw some dude in Vietnam using it.
true...but why call yourself a DJ, if you rock comps? If you are going to play some shit off a, say, Gilles Peterson comp, you are basically saying "I am not as good as DJ as Gilles, Gilles has better taste than me, so I will play his selections, he dug them up and made them available to me". Fuck dudes who get paid to DJ stuff like this and claim to soul/funk/jazz DJs. Listen to comps at home for listening pleasure, not to DJ with.
You've never played a track that another DJ "discovered"?
Nono, if I choose to play a track of a comp, then I choose to do so.. Im not playing the track because someone put it on a comp, Its MY choice to play it.
I have no problem with DJs rocking comps.
Co-sign. People really shouldn't care about this type of stuff.
All I'll say is, if there's a good song that happens to be raer and on a comp, you best believe I will share that shit with the masses. I think at some point we need to look beyond the medium and focus on the music.
Well, that brings up the subject of DJs who play to show off their taste in music vs. DJs who want to make the crowd happy. A subject I'm not going to touch.