^^^OK I think I'm a little confused by what yr arguing here though. Some people shouldn't write about rap? What if they like it? Just like rap artists don't get to select their audience, they don't get to choose who writes about their music (nor do their fans)(or soulstrutters). That doesn't mean we can't clown someone who writes poorly or screws up or makes mistakes, but I don't think you can just say 'you don't get to have an opinion on this because of who you are.' Who they are needs to be taken into account when writing, maybe, but you can't be a gatekeeper, not because it isn't 'right' but because trying is sort of useless. Herbs will be herbs. etc.
no, my point was that rap critique has become less about what the writers actually like, and more about what they think people in the streets are feeling. journalists are not using the same grading points. black thought is always boring and common melodramatic, but where is the same substantive critique for street rap. it doesnt exist right now. they don't want to get branded as the stereotypical disconnected white journalist who doesnt like "real rap" because its too street for them. truthfully, is clipse writing cocaine raps for tom breihan? obviously not. so maybe he shouldn't be critiquing it. i dont know.
^^^OK I think I'm a little confused by what yr arguing here though. Some people shouldn't write about rap? What if they like it? Just like rap artists don't get to select their audience, they don't get to choose who writes about their music (nor do their fans)(or soulstrutters). That doesn't mean we can't clown someone who writes poorly or screws up or makes mistakes, but I don't think you can just say 'you don't get to have an opinion on this because of who you are.' Who they are needs to be taken into account when writing, maybe, but you can't be a gatekeeper, not because it isn't 'right' but because trying is sort of useless. Herbs will be herbs. etc.
no, my point was that rap critique has become less about what the writers actually like, and more about what they think people in the streets are feeling. journalists are not using the same grading points. black thought is always boring and common melodramatic, but where is the same substantive critique for street rap. it doesnt exist right now. they don't want to get branded as the stereotypical disconnected white journalist who doesnt like "real rap" because its too street for them. truthfully, is clipse writing cocaine raps for tom breihan? obviously not. so maybe he shouldn't be critiquing it. i dont know.
this sounds like a broad generalization. can you give any other examples of this kind of journnalism besides breihan?
btw- why do you claim to know what the authors of these critiques like?
that rap critique has become less about what the writers actually like, and more about what they think people in the streets are feeling.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
My only problem is that I still judge rap by the same standards that I did 5 and 10 and 20 years ago.... Lyrical ability and production quality. By default this now makes it difficult to find "new rap" enjoyable. I find "talent" to be more important than "Swagger". More important than "Fashion" and how much crack you've sold or how many times you have been shot, or how much a rapper beleives his own fantasy. If I were 15, this would probably persuade me a lot more, but at 30 I'm only interested in the music, not who's poster would look thweet on my wall.
So you really think it's not racist to summarize the vast talents of everyone from TI to Bun B to even 50 Cent as "how much crack you've sold or how many times you have been shot"?
On top of that, what's the point of attempting to insult and caricature anyone who recognizes those talents as just that...talents?
I'm not as prudish as it seems, and in fact I'm not even that easily offended. But I find myself squirming in my chair sometimes they way certain white members of this board toss around slang and rapperisms as if its some cutesy way to look clever. Like the great white anthropologist studying the "savages" and showing off how much you know.
Yeah, white people should only use words that have come out of the mouth of the Queen of England.
If black soulstrutters find my attitude racist then I would have thought I would have heard it from a... wait for it... black soulstrutter by now instead of random WHITE people who think they know the time.
As I've come to understand it, not many black people waste their time telling particular white people that they are racist...for the assumption that all white people are racist is from jump a given until proven otherwise.
Maybe I haven't gotten called out because the only people I'm "offending" are wacko lizard people schizo fucks like yourself. Take your tin foil hat off and look around. Real life might actually be more enjoyable than the fantasy world you've created for yourself.
Then again, maybe nobody gives a fuck about anything you say. You think you're funny...but you aren't even remotely close...ever, as far as I can tell.
Keep trying dude. You are ridiculous. Do you not see that while I make jokes, people on here see you as a joke? Nobody takes you seriously. People giggle at the shit you actually beleive. Sometimes I almost feel sorry for you, but mostly I'm just scared of you and your type.
I'm new here and for the most part have no idea what race anyone is. While I think it is paramount to engage with non-white folks about race, yr focus on 'lets hear what black people have to say' makes me think of the black-person-represents-all-black-people kind of arguments that are ultimately useless and harmful.
I think its pretty clear dudes like Breihan can be corny but I don't doubt for a minute that he genuinely likes the music he's talking about.
I'm not as prudish as it seems, and in fact I'm not even that easily offended. But I find myself squirming in my chair sometimes they way certain white members of this board toss around slang and rapperisms as if its some cutesy way to look clever. Like the great white anthropologist studying the "savages" and showing off how much you know.
Yeah, white people should only use words that have come out of the mouth of the Queen of England.
no, but wouldn't you agree that people shouldn't be writing with slang they would never use in speaking in front of the people they are mimicking?
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
no, my point was that rap critique has become less about what the writers actually like, and more about what they think people in the streets are feeling. journalists are not using the same grading points. black thought is always boring and common melodramatic, but where is the same substantive critique for street rap. it doesnt exist right now. they don't want to get branded as the stereotypical disconnected white journalist who doesnt like "real rap" because its too street for them. truthfully, is clipse writing cocaine raps for tom breihan? obviously not. so maybe he shouldn't be critiquing it. i dont know.
1. Why is it so far-fetched to think that any given white person might genuinely like street rap?
2. Why wouldn't it be an integral part of any music criticism to gauge its effect on large masses of people?
I agree that there are some writers out there who need to shut the fuck up on certain topics. But I'm not understanding how you can make blanket statements based on race. There are plenty of white writers out there who get it when it comes to street rap as much as anyone does. And then there's Little Brother as well.
I'm not as prudish as it seems, and in fact I'm not even that easily offended. But I find myself squirming in my chair sometimes they way certain white members of this board toss around slang and rapperisms as if its some cutesy way to look clever. Like the great white anthropologist studying the "savages" and showing off how much you know.
Yeah, white people should only use words that have come out of the mouth of the Queen of England.
no, but wouldn't you agree that people shouldn't be writing with slang they would never use in speaking in front of the people they are mimicking?
Thank you.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
Keep trying dude. You are ridiculous. Do you not see that while I make jokes, people on here see you as a joke? Nobody takes you seriously. People giggle at the shit you actually beleive. Sometimes I almost feel sorry for you, but mostly I'm just scared of you and your type.
Stay scared then.
Like I gives a fuck if the soulstrut circle jerk cosigns my every thought.
I'm not as prudish as it seems, and in fact I'm not even that easily offended. But I find myself squirming in my chair sometimes they way certain white members of this board toss around slang and rapperisms as if its some cutesy way to look clever. Like the great white anthropologist studying the "savages" and showing off how much you know.
Yeah, white people should only use words that have come out of the mouth of the Queen of England.
no, but wouldn't you agree that people shouldn't be writing with slang they would never use in speaking in front of the people they are mimicking?
Thank you.
If you guys think someone's said something offensive or mocking or blackface-y why don't you call it out when it happens? Instead of this passive aggressive "i'm not gonna name names..." kind of shit?
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
no, but wouldn't you agree that people shouldn't be writing with slang they would never use in speaking in front of the people they are mimicking?
Only slang word that I know of that's off-limits to certain people begins with an n.
Otherwise, you'd have to provide specific examples.
But the bottom line is that if you've ever had any real life experience with this shit, you'd know full well that white people talking rap slang along with blacks is an everyday reality that is more or less not considered a threat to anyone but other pompous whites.
no, but wouldn't you agree that people shouldn't be writing with slang they would never use in speaking in front of the people they are mimicking?
Only slang word that I know of that's off-limits to certain people begins with an n.
Otherwise, you'd have to provide specific examples.
But the bottom line is that if you've ever had any real life experience with this shit, you'd know full well that white people talking rap slang along with blacks is an everyday reality that is more or less not considered a threat to anyone but other pompous whites.
i'm not a sociologist, but i understand that people are a product of their environment. accordingly, i would never criticize a white kid who grows up in a black neighborhood and uses the identical slang (minus the n word). HOWEVER, if you are trying to say that its kosher for a white dude to talk like young jeezy, just because he bought his album...than i beg to differ. i consider that "mocking", even if it is supposed to be flattery, as opposed to the "kill whitey-type irony"....which is also .
again, the bottom line is that if you are writing different than you speak (in front of ALL people, not just your friends), than i co-sign the "that's racist" graemlin.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
again, the bottom line is that if you are writing different than you speak (in front of ALL people, not just your friends), than i co-sign the "that's racist" graemlin.
Fair enough, I suppose, but please provide examples.
You guys are way too vague. You need specific examples or yr argument doesn't work. At my h.s. you would get clowned if you talked like a stereotypical white dude, whether you were white or black or latino or asian. There's a balance. But you guys are just working entirely in useless rhetorical 'blackface whitekids' that really could cover whole swaths of different cultural experiences and backgrounds, and its like, ok, what exactly are we arguing about?
no, my point was that rap critique has become less about what the writers actually like, and more about what they think people in the streets are feeling. journalists are not using the same grading points. black thought is always boring and common melodramatic, but where is the same substantive critique for street rap. it doesnt exist right now. they don't want to get branded as the stereotypical disconnected white journalist who doesnt like "real rap" because its too street for them. truthfully, is clipse writing cocaine raps for tom breihan? obviously not. so maybe he shouldn't be critiquing it. i dont know.
1. Why is it so far-fetched to think that any given white person might genuinely like street rap?
2. Why wouldn't it be an integral part of any music criticism to gauge its effect on large masses of people?
I agree that there are some writers out there who need to shut the fuck up on certain topics. But I'm not understanding how you can make blanket statements based on race. There are plenty of white writers out there who get it when it comes to street rap as much as anyone does. And then there's Little Brother as well.
its not far-fetched to think that a white journalist might like street rap, but i'm not arguing that a movie critic can't appreciate a western because he was never a cowboy. my point is that these critics are not using the same grading scale...seemingly because they are scared of being branded a racist. i guess east coast rappers are the only ones who have enough balls to say that the emperor is wearing NO clothes.
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no, my point was that rap critique has become less about what the writers actually like, and more about what they think people in the streets are feeling. journalists are not using the same grading points. black thought is always boring and common melodramatic, but where is the same substantive critique for street rap. it doesnt exist right now. they don't want to get branded as the stereotypical disconnected white journalist who doesnt like "real rap" because its too street for them. truthfully, is clipse writing cocaine raps for tom breihan? obviously not. so maybe he shouldn't be critiquing it. i dont know.
this sounds like a broad generalization. can you give any other examples of this kind of journnalism besides breihan?
btw- why do you claim to know what the authors of these critiques like?
So you really think it's not racist to summarize the vast talents of everyone from TI to Bun B to even 50 Cent as "how much crack you've sold or how many times you have been shot"?
On top of that, what's the point of attempting to insult and caricature anyone who recognizes those talents as just that...talents?
Yeah, white people should only use words that have come out of the mouth of the Queen of England.
As I've come to understand it, not many black people waste their time telling particular white people that they are racist...for the assumption that all white people are racist is from jump a given until proven otherwise.
Then again, maybe nobody gives a fuck about anything you say. You think you're funny...but you aren't even remotely close...ever, as far as I can tell.
Five stars.
While I think it is paramount to engage with non-white folks about race, yr focus on 'lets hear what black people have to say' makes me think of the black-person-represents-all-black-people kind of arguments that are ultimately useless and harmful.
I think its pretty clear dudes like Breihan can be corny but I don't doubt for a minute that he genuinely likes the music he's talking about.
no, but wouldn't you agree that people shouldn't be writing with slang they would never use in speaking in front of the people they are mimicking?
1. Why is it so far-fetched to think that any given white person might genuinely like street rap?
2. Why wouldn't it be an integral part of any music criticism to gauge its effect on large masses of people?
I agree that there are some writers out there who need to shut the fuck up on certain topics. But I'm not understanding how you can make blanket statements based on race. There are plenty of white writers out there who get it when it comes to street rap as much as anyone does. And then there's Little Brother as well.
Thank you.
Stay scared then.
Like I gives a fuck if the soulstrut circle jerk cosigns my every thought.
Only slang word that I know of that's off-limits to certain people begins with an n.
Otherwise, you'd have to provide specific examples.
But the bottom line is that if you've ever had any real life experience with this shit, you'd know full well that white people talking rap slang along with blacks is an everyday reality that is more or less not considered a threat to anyone but other pompous whites.
I'm not the soulstrut ref. You guys keep doing whatever you do.
Stay tired then.
Unless it's this guy
We'll see who laughs last when I sick my pet iguana on you.
Yeah, that guy is funny, even though I'm not sure who he is.
i'm not a sociologist, but i understand that people are a product of their environment. accordingly, i would never criticize a white kid who grows up in a black neighborhood and uses the identical slang (minus the n word). HOWEVER, if you are trying to say that its kosher for a white dude to talk like young jeezy, just because he bought his album...than i beg to differ. i consider that "mocking", even if it is supposed to be flattery, as opposed to the "kill whitey-type irony"....which is also
again, the bottom line is that if you are writing different than you speak (in front of ALL people, not just your friends), than i co-sign the "that's racist" graemlin.
Fair enough, I suppose, but please provide examples.
its not far-fetched to think that a white journalist might like street rap, but i'm not arguing that a movie critic can't appreciate a western because he was never a cowboy. my point is that these critics are not using the same grading scale...seemingly because they are scared of being branded a racist. i guess east coast rappers are the only ones who have enough balls to say that the emperor is wearing NO clothes.
only if they are color coordinated with the right pair of Reebok.
What are you talking about? Seriously.
turn on the radio
at one point, there was an interesting discussion going on.
I guess I'll go back to talking about my balls now.