PS. By the way... I'm an arab and from the point of view of the arabs (and muslims) I know, it's not jews and judaism that is problem, but the Zionist policies of Israel as a state.
If it's Israel's policies that are the problem, why are there Muslim/Arab related conflicts also going on right now in Sudan, Nigeria, Algeria, Afghanistan, Indonesia, Kosovo(Albanian KLA), "India/Pakistan(Kashmir)" and Iran???
I'm not sure of your point here? It doesn't appear to related to this discussion or my post. I was trying to make it clear that generally speaking it is the state of Israel and not jews or judaism that is the focus of a lot of resentment in the Arab world.
By listing conflicts involving muslims or arabs surely you are not trying to say they are fighting because "that's what muslims do"? I sincerely hope not.
With regards to your question, you'd be better off asking why there are conflicts going on the world over, regardless of who is fighting in them.
what so sad is how this has become distracted by people who cry anti-semitism evertime somebody eats a cheeseburger. then there's this bullshit hitler talk going around.
this is about what are clearly failed military and foreign policies by Israel for the past 30 years. shit's not working people! hello? just look at the evidence.
and don't think that because Israel has been fucking up the middle east that they shouldn't be there. i don't think that at all.
however, they need to reevaluate policy and get the fuck of the USA tittie. that's for damn sure.
i thought about stating the obvious and thought, "no, it's too obvious".
but now that i see it, i feel better.
it had to be said.
This is a ridiculous proposition.
which part?
look, nuff respect to you guys both first off. I don't want this to get personal.
Leave aside that there's no way for any of us to really know that "just as many Jews that hate Arabs" or vice versa.
but there are only 13 million Jews in the world, the majority of whom live in either the US or Israel. These are not hotbeds of Muslim hatred. Despite post-911 civil rights infringements, the general atmosphere in these countries is not anti-Muslim. I have lived in both and can tell you this from experience. The majority of Jews that I know (and I know a lot) either have no opinion of Muslims one way or another or openly embrace them. A racist remark against an Muslim would get you slapped among most of my Jewish friends.
There are 1.3 billion Muslims in the world, the majority of whom live in countries that are at best cold to the Jewish state of Israel (i.e. refusal to even recognize its exisitence and/or maintain diplomatic relations with it) and are at worst openly hostile to Israel and make open pronouncements against Jews. Do these governments represent their people? Generally not, but I have to say that anti-Israel pronouncements, rallies, etc. seem to be the one thing that really get the populations behind these leaders. The leaders know this and use it to their advantage. It's a well-documented ploy among Arab-Muslim despots.
At the opening of the 57-nation Organization of the Islamic Conference Summit last year the Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir said that Jews run the world and that Muslims must unite to defeat them. This was in a room full of representatives from every Muslim nation on the earth. He was met with applause. I'm sorry but there is just nothing comparable in the Jewish world.
look, I am not casting random aspirtions. I have traveled extensively in the Arab-Muslim world and I can say that hate of or at the least racist suspicion of Jews is rampant. The stuff I've heard about Jews from everyone from shopkeepers to college-educated kdis would get you kicked out of school here in the US.
check out www.memri.org, read the Arab press, talk to people in these countries. I'm saying the hate is palpable. Then check the Jewish stuff. It's just not even on the same level. Sorry to disappoint, but there is no parity on this point.
and no I am not ignoring the difference between Muslims and Arabs. But it's useless to restrict this argument to Arab hatred of Jews when the larger Muslim world is such a big component of it.
"hatred of jews is taught at many of the schools in the arab world"
"I was taught in my K-6th grade Jewish day school never to trust Arabs and I've been a member of Hillel at 2 different Universities in 2 different states both of which had members with some very low opinions of Palestinians."
And comparing the Jewish/Israeli situation with that of the african americans in the south of the us, is so fundamentally flawed its not even worth saying its wrong.
I think your crossing opinions and words from several people here. I am responsible for the quote about jewish day school and Hillel and I wasn't saying that as some tit-for-tat. I brought it up cause Otis Funkmeyer made a comment about thiking all Palestinians hate Jews. I was just trying to point out that he is not some lone nut in thinking this. Unfortunately there is not much communication about "the other side" in school or youth organizatins (At least not the ones I've come across). Its really sad.
I was agreeing with you. well kind of. I was just trying to show that you can't make blanket statements like 'they hate us, and wish us dead' as some kind of justification for killing them first.
I was agreeing with you. well kind of. I was just trying to show that you can't make blanket statements like 'they hate us, and wish us dead' as some kind of justification for killing them first.
i didnt know anyone here was pushing for this kind of action
PS. By the way... I'm an arab and from the point of view of the arabs (and muslims) I know, it's not jews and judaism that is the problem, but the Zionist policies of Israel as a state.
I'm also an Arab and have been saying the same thing... But apparently non-Arabs know more about us than we do about ourselves. We are silly, backwards people.
The3rdstream,
no i dont think there is as many arab hating jews as jew hating muslims
A word to the wise: Don't confuse Arab with Muslim. The Arab World is quite small compared to the Muslim World. We're not talking about Bangladeshi dirt farmers here, we're talking about Palestinians and to some extent, Arabs as a whole.
I think your math is terribly off though. I will say that.
the voices on the palestinian side are muffled by gun shots and bombs
And what are the voices on the Israeli side muffled by? Hugs, kisses, and open arms for Palestinians? I think it's interesting how you continuously draw attention to the violence on the Palestinians' side while Israel comes out smelling like a bed of roses. It just doesn't add up.
I was agreeing with you. well kind of. I was just trying to show that you can't make blanket statements like 'they hate us, and wish us dead' as some kind of justification for killing them first.
i didnt know anyone here was pushing for this kind of action
What do you think the billions of dollars of aid that the US gives to Israel every year is spent on? All those tanks, guns, bombs, and nuclear weapons only serve one purpose.
Also to point out that a fair bit of animosity towards Israel stems from the conditions of its creation as the "will" of Western countries during and after WWII who wanted a loyal ally to offset the Arab countries in the Middle East. Also note the extensive amount of lobbying by Jewish-Americans prior to the end of WWII. Westerners creating a state of Israel at the expense of those people already living there (Palestinians) doesn't make for too many happy campers...
I was agreeing with you. well kind of. I was just trying to show that you can't make blanket statements like 'they hate us, and wish us dead' as some kind of justification for killing them first.
i didnt know anyone here was pushing for this kind of action
What do you think the billions of dollars of aid that the US gives to Israel every year is spent on? All those tanks, guns, bombs, and nuclear weapons only serve one purpose.
Moke, take a deep breath and read a fucking book. Israel does not go around killing people because of some imaginary perception that those people hate Israel. You know this. Hyperbole is not helping this discussion.
PS. By the way... I'm an arab and from the point of view of the arabs (and muslims) I know, it's not jews and judaism that is problem, but the Zionist policies of Israel as a state.
If it's Israel's policies that are the problem, why are there Muslim/Arab related conflicts also going on right now in Sudan, Nigeria, Algeria, Afghanistan, Indonesia, Kosovo(Albanian KLA), "India/Pakistan(Kashmir)" and Iran???
I'm not sure of your point here? It doesn't appear to related to this discussion or my post. I was trying to make it clear that generally speaking it is the state of Israel and not jews or judaism that is the focus of a lot of resentment in the Arab world.
By listing conflicts involving muslims or arabs surely you are not trying to say they are fighting because "that's what muslims do"? I sincerely hope not.
With regards to your question, you'd be better off asking why there are conflicts going on the world over, regardless of who is fighting in them.
I'm not saying that "that's what Muslims do" but I am saying that "that's what Muslims are doing"...
AFGHANISTAN: The war in Afghanistan is ongoing. Since Soviet troops withdrew, various Afghan groups have tried to eliminate their rivals. Although the Taliban strengthened their position in 1998 they have not achieved their final objective. Afghanistan harbours Osama bin Ladin, a wealthy Saudi Arabia dissident responsible for terrorist acts around the world. On 11 September 2001 members from bin Ladin's el Qaeda group highjacked 4 passenger jets in the USA, crashing one into the Pentagon and 2 into the World Trade Center, killing more than 2,000 citizens. The USA and its allies declared war on terrorism and counter-attacked, removing the Taliban from power. The war on terrorism and the el Qaeda continues.
ALGERIA: Armed Islamic groups formed and since 1992 have carried out attacks on key economic points, security forces, officials and foreigners. In 1995 Algeria's first multiparty presidential elections were held and the incumbent president Liamine Zeroual won 60% of the votes in a poll with a 75% turnout. The first multiparty legislative elections were held in June 1997 which were won by the National Democratic Rally, which holds the majority of seats along with the FLN. Although the armed wing of the FIS declared a ceasefire in October 1997, an extremist splinter group, the Islamic Armed Group (GIA), continued attacks. There is also evidence that many attacks are carried out by militias backed by the Algerian security forces. After years of civil strife, Amnesty International estimates that around 80,000 people have died
The Caucasus and Russia: The Central Asian republics have a long history of conflicts. Fighting breaks out regularly between warlords and religious groups calling for the establishment of Islamic states outside the Russian Federation. Russia is trying to hold on to the federation because the Caucasus is a vital supply route for the oil riches of the Caspian and Black Sea. With the break-up of the Soviet Union various groups fought for control in the republics. Conflicts from one republic spills over to the other and they continually blame each other for attacks. Chechnya, still part of Russia, was flung in an almost full-scale war in 1994-96 and, after a disastrous campaign, Russia was forced to re-evaluate its involvement in the area. In August 1999 Russia stepped up security in the Caucasus region as rebels from within Dagestan - a small republic where more than 100 languages are spoken - went on the attack in support of Chechnyan Muslim groups who claim independence from Russia. In September 1999 Russia launched a ground invasion into the area to cut rebels off from Central Asian supply routes. By January 2000 Russia was once again involved in a full scale conflict in Chechnya. The Caucasus issue is complicated by the more than 50 different ethnic groups each insisting to proclaim their religious convictions on the area. The situation holds serious danger for neighbouring countries, Kazakhstan, Georgia and Russia itself.
EYGPT: Fundamentalist Muslim rebels seek to topple the secular Egyptian government. At least 1,200 people have perished since the beginning of the rebellion. The conflict was primarily waged as an urban guerrilla/terrorist war. The opposition Muslim Brotherhood took part in elections in 2000, indicating that they felt armed force would not work.
INDONESIA: The struggle on the Indonesia islands is complicated by leaders of pro- and anti-independence movements, and by religious conflicts. More than 500 churches have been burned down or damaged by Muslims over the past six years. Both the Christians and Muslims blame each other for the violence and attempts at reconciliation made little progress. After a bloody struggle East Timor gained independence in 1999. The hostilities on other islands continue to claim dozens of lives, to such an extent that the break-up of Indonesia seem imminent.
INDIA/PAKISTAN: Muslim separatists in the Indian section declared a holy war against the mostly-Hindu India and started attacks in 1989, mainly from Pakistan-occupied section of Kashmir, and from Pakistan and Afghanistan. The conflict continues, with Pakistan also crushing rebellions with brute force in their section.
IRAQ: Supports Islamic terrorist acts around the world. Differing culture and religious groups within Iraq continues to clash with Shiite Muslims.
ISRAEL: Within its own borders, Israel continues to battle various Muslim organizations that seek independence for a Palestine state, areas made up of the Gaza strip, West.Bank, and part of Jerusalem. There is heavy international pressure on Israel to recognise a Palestinian state. The area of what today is Palestine was settled by Semitic tribes at a very early date. It was then called Canaan, and controlled by Canaanite tribes for more than 1,000 years. In about 1500 BC Hebrew, or Jewish, tribes began to enter the area. They later came into conflict with a people of Greek origin known as the Philistines. It is from them that the term Palestine is derived.
IRAN: After the Iranian Revolution in 1979 toppled the government of the Shah, the Mujahadeen Khalq soon began a bloody guerrilla war against the new Islamic government. The Mujahadeen are currently based in Iraq and conduct cross-border raids into Iran, as well as conducting urban guerrilla operations in the cities and conducting political assassinations. Iran occasionally launches raids against Khalq bases in Iraq.
KOSOVO: The ethnic Albanian KLA (Kosovo Liberation Army) in this Serbian province fought a guerilla war against Serbia to claim the region. Beginning in February 1999, Albanians were forced out of the province, prompting NATO to attack Serbia. By July 1999 Serb troops were forced out of Kosovo, only to open an avenue for Albanian Kosovars to attack Serb Kosovars. The Albanian Muslims have since burned down dozens of centuries-old Christian churches. In an effort to establish a Greater Albania, Albanian Muslim rebels also launched attacks in Macedonia.
NIGERIA: There are violent religious clashes in the city of Kaduna in northern Nigeria beginning February 21 2004 and have continued. Kaduna is the second largest city in the north. The clashes followed a march by tens of thousands of Christians to protest the proposal to introduce Muslim sharia law as the criminal code throughout Kaduna state. Reports speak of rival armed gangs of Christians and Muslims roving the streets. Churches and mosques have been put to the torch. Corpses were seen lying in the streets and people's bodies hanging out of cars and buses, apparently killed while attempting to flee the violence. Local human rights workers said that more than 400 had been killed as a result of the clashes.
br />
SUDAN: The largest country in Africa, has been plagued by a succession of unstable civilian and military governments since it gained independence in 1956 from an Anglo-Egyptian condominium. The long-running conflict continues between the Arab Muslim northerners of Sudan, (the base of the government), and the African Christians of the south. In the mid-90s Sudan was home to Osama bin Ladin, the international terrorist responsible for the World Trade Center attack. It is estimated that more than 1,2 million people have been killed in the Sudan war, brining devastation to the Sudanese economy.
PHILIPPINES: The Phillipines armed forces, with assistance of US troops, are fighting Moslem rebels - they have been linked to Osama bin Laden's el Qaeda terrorist group - on the southern islands of the country. Muslim rebel groups seek autonomy/independence from the mostly Christian Philippines. One rebel group, the Abu Sayaf Group, is believed linked to Osama bin-Laden's Al-Qaida. This connection, plus their tactic of kidnapping and beheading Americans, led the United States to send Special Forces to aid the Philippine Army.
And what are the voices on the Israeli side muffled by? Hugs, kisses, and open arms for Palestinians? I think it's interesting how you continuously draw attention to the violence on the Palestinians' side while Israel comes out smelling like a bed of roses. It just doesn't add up.
israel does not aim for civilians and instead tries to go after the leaders of movements that try to kill israeli civilians
Also to point out that a fair bit of animosity towards Israel stems from the conditions of its creation as the "will" of Western countries during and after WWII who wanted a loyal ally to offset the Arab countries in the Middle East. Also note the extensive amount of lobbying by Jewish-Americans prior to the end of WWII. Westerners creating a state of Israel at the expense of those people already living there (Palestinians) doesn't make for too many happy campers...
man I'ma sign off here in a minute because this ignorance is making me heated.
the Western powers didn't create Israel. The United Nations, representing the governments of the world, approved Jewish statehood. While that would normally be enough, Israel's neighbors rejected this and the Jews on the ground actually had to fight for it.
The UK, the major colonial player in the region, arguably hindered Israel's creation by blockading refugees and arms.
Has Israel been an ally to the US? Damn right. But this was hardly the reason for its creation.
At the end of the day, Israel was established by Jews seeking self-determination. They did it in the face of unbeleivable odds and to suggest that this country was somehow delivered to them on a silver platter is a disgrace to the thousands of Jewish refugees that fought and died for it to come into existence.
And what are the voices on the Israeli side muffled by? Hugs, kisses, and open arms for Palestinians? I think it's interesting how you continuously draw attention to the violence on the Palestinians' side while Israel comes out smelling like a bed of roses. It just doesn't add up.
israel does not aim for civilians and instead tries to go after the leaders of movements that try to kill israeli civilians
does israel break cease fires?
Fair points, but bulldozing entire houses and apartment complexes doesn't quite approach the model of reason needed to decisively end the conflict...
Also to point out that a fair bit of animosity towards Israel stems from the conditions of its creation as the "will" of Western countries during and after WWII who wanted a loyal ally to offset the Arab countries in the Middle East. Also note the extensive amount of lobbying by Jewish-Americans prior to the end of WWII. Westerners creating a state of Israel at the expense of those people already living there (Palestinians) doesn't make for too many happy campers...
man I'ma sign off here in a minute because this ignorance is making me heated.
the Western powers didn't create Israel. The United Nations, representing the governments of the world, approved Jewish statehood. While that would normally be enough, Israel's neighbors rejected this and the Jews on the ground actually had to fight for it.
The UK, the major colonial player in the region, arguably hindered Israel's creation by blockading refugees and arms.
Has Israel been an ally to the US? Damn right. But this was hardly the reason for its creation.
At the end of the day, Israel was established by Jews seeking self-determination. They did it in the face of unbeleivable odds and to suggest that this country was somehow delivered to them on a silver platter is a disgrace to the thousands of Jewish refugees that fought and died for it to come into existence.
Calm down, dude. Never said anything about a silver platter--it was definitely a tough road to hoe. But you're ignoring a lot of relevant information about the aggressiveness with which the US government was influenced by money and political connections to facilitate its creation. Its all right here.
the Western powers didn't create Israel. The United Nations, representing the governments of the world, approved Jewish statehood. While that would normally be enough, Israel's neighbors rejected this and the Jews on the ground actually had to fight for it.
The UK, the major colonial player in the region, arguably hindered Israel's creation by blockading refugees and arms.
Has Israel been an ally to the US? Damn right. But this was hardly the reason for its creation.
At the end of the day, Israel was established by Jews seeking self-determination. They did it in the face of unbeleivable odds and to suggest that this country was somehow delivered to them on a silver platter is a disgrace to the thousands of Jewish refugees that fought and died for it to come into existence.
thank you for educating the peoples on this. I think it very important that people know Israel was created as a Jewish state just a couple years after the end of WWII and the extermination of 6,000,000 Jews.
But we have gone everywhere in this thread and not returned to what this thread is about. Hamas, a terrorist organization who has been responsible for bombings, shootings and other non-diplomatic actions is now in power in a very volitile area.
As much as I am for a Palestinian state I am not for one ran by this kind of government. It's scary to think what might happen in the next few weeks/months/years in the area. Every positive step set up towards peace over the last 2 decades is in danger of falling away and being replaced with newfound anger and energy in the already violent struggle.
And what are the voices on the Israeli side muffled by? Hugs, kisses, and open arms for Palestinians? I think it's interesting how you continuously draw attention to the violence on the Palestinians' side while Israel comes out smelling like a bed of roses. It just doesn't add up.
israel does not aim for civilians and instead tries to go after the leaders of movements that try to kill israeli civilians
does israel break cease fires?
Fair points, but bulldozing entire houses and apartment complexes doesn't quite approach the model of reason needed to decisively end the conflict...
in the past israel has not been a model, but that has changed and they have been trying for peace for at least the last 10 years and when compared to the leaders of palestine they look like saints
israel does not aim for civilians and instead tries to go after the leaders of movements that try to kill israeli civilians
does israel break cease fires?
So your comparing Israel's military (working under the government) to Palestinian extremists who operate underground and disseperate from the Palestinian Authority? Nice.
Comments
I'm not sure of your point here? It doesn't appear to related to this discussion or my post. I was trying to make it clear that generally speaking it is the state of Israel and not jews or judaism that is the focus of a lot of resentment in the Arab world.
By listing conflicts involving muslims or arabs surely you are not trying to say they are fighting because "that's what muslims do"? I sincerely hope not.
With regards to your question, you'd be better off asking why there are conflicts going on the world over, regardless of who is fighting in them.
this is about what are clearly failed military and foreign policies by Israel for the past 30 years. shit's not working people! hello? just look at the evidence.
and don't think that because Israel has been fucking up the middle east that they shouldn't be there. i don't think that at all.
however, they need to reevaluate policy and get the fuck of the USA tittie. that's for damn sure.
i dont even think its mathematically possible
pie charts and mathematics aside...i don't understand this reasoning. because it is defensive, there is no hate or animosity?
look, nuff respect to you guys both first off. I don't want this to get personal.
Leave aside that there's no way for any of us to really know that "just as many Jews that hate Arabs" or vice versa.
but there are only 13 million Jews in the world, the majority of whom live in either the US or Israel. These are not hotbeds of Muslim hatred. Despite post-911 civil rights infringements, the general atmosphere in these countries is not anti-Muslim. I have lived in both and can tell you this from experience. The majority of Jews that I know (and I know a lot) either have no opinion of Muslims one way or another or openly embrace them. A racist remark against an Muslim would get you slapped among most of my Jewish friends.
There are 1.3 billion Muslims in the world, the majority of whom live in countries that are at best cold to the Jewish state of Israel (i.e. refusal to even recognize its exisitence and/or maintain diplomatic relations with it) and are at worst openly hostile to Israel and make open pronouncements against Jews. Do these governments represent their people? Generally not, but I have to say that anti-Israel pronouncements, rallies, etc. seem to be the one thing that really get the populations behind these leaders. The leaders know this and use it to their advantage. It's a well-documented ploy among Arab-Muslim despots.
At the opening of the 57-nation Organization of the Islamic Conference Summit last year the Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir said that Jews run the world and that Muslims must unite to defeat them. This was in a room full of representatives from every Muslim nation on the earth. He was met with applause. I'm sorry but there is just nothing comparable in the Jewish world.
look, I am not casting random aspirtions. I have traveled extensively in the Arab-Muslim world and I can say that hate of or at the least racist suspicion of Jews is rampant. The stuff I've heard about Jews from everyone from shopkeepers to college-educated kdis would get you kicked out of school here in the US.
check out www.memri.org, read the Arab press, talk to people in these countries. I'm saying the hate is palpable. Then check the Jewish stuff. It's just not even on the same level. Sorry to disappoint, but there is no parity on this point.
rootless kind of answered this better than i ever could
I was agreeing with you. well kind of.
I was just trying to show that you can't make blanket statements like 'they hate us, and wish us dead' as some kind of justification for killing them first.
i didnt know anyone here was pushing for this kind of action
I'm also an Arab and have been saying the same thing... But apparently non-Arabs know more about us than we do about ourselves. We are silly, backwards people.
The3rdstream,
A word to the wise: Don't confuse Arab with Muslim. The Arab World is quite small compared to the Muslim World. We're not talking about Bangladeshi dirt farmers here, we're talking about Palestinians and to some extent, Arabs as a whole.
I think your math is terribly off though. I will say that.
And what are the voices on the Israeli side muffled by? Hugs, kisses, and open arms for Palestinians? I think it's interesting how you continuously draw attention to the violence on the Palestinians' side while Israel comes out smelling like a bed of roses. It just doesn't add up.
What do you think the billions of dollars of aid that the US gives to Israel every year is spent on?
All those tanks, guns, bombs, and nuclear weapons only serve one purpose.
Moke, take a deep breath and read a fucking book. Israel does not go around killing people because of some imaginary perception that those people hate Israel. You know this. Hyperbole is not helping this discussion.
I'm not saying that "that's what Muslims do" but I am saying that "that's what Muslims are doing"...
AFGHANISTAN: The war in Afghanistan is ongoing. Since Soviet troops withdrew, various Afghan groups have tried to eliminate their rivals. Although the Taliban strengthened their position in 1998 they have not achieved their final objective. Afghanistan harbours Osama bin Ladin, a wealthy Saudi Arabia dissident responsible for terrorist acts around the world. On 11 September 2001 members from bin Ladin's el Qaeda group highjacked 4 passenger jets in the USA, crashing one into the Pentagon and 2 into the World Trade Center, killing more than 2,000 citizens. The USA and its allies declared war on terrorism and counter-attacked, removing the Taliban from power. The war on terrorism and the el Qaeda continues.
ALGERIA: Armed Islamic groups formed and since 1992 have carried out attacks on key economic points, security forces, officials and foreigners. In 1995 Algeria's first multiparty presidential elections were held and the incumbent president Liamine Zeroual won 60% of the votes in a poll with a 75% turnout. The first multiparty legislative elections were held in June 1997 which were won by the National Democratic Rally, which holds the majority of seats along with the FLN. Although the armed wing of the FIS declared a ceasefire in October 1997, an extremist splinter group, the Islamic Armed Group (GIA), continued attacks. There is also evidence that many attacks are carried out by militias backed by the Algerian security forces. After years of civil strife, Amnesty International estimates that around 80,000 people have died
The Caucasus and Russia: The Central Asian republics have a long history of conflicts. Fighting breaks out regularly between warlords and religious groups calling for the establishment of Islamic states outside the Russian Federation. Russia is trying to hold on to the federation because the Caucasus is a vital supply route for the oil riches of the Caspian and Black Sea. With the break-up of the Soviet Union various groups fought for control in the republics. Conflicts from one republic spills over to the other and they continually blame each other for attacks. Chechnya, still part of Russia, was flung in an almost full-scale war in 1994-96 and, after a disastrous campaign, Russia was forced to re-evaluate its involvement in the area. In August 1999 Russia stepped up security in the Caucasus region as rebels from within Dagestan - a small republic where more than 100 languages are spoken - went on the attack in support of Chechnyan Muslim groups who claim independence from Russia. In September 1999 Russia launched a ground invasion into the area to cut rebels off from Central Asian supply routes. By January 2000 Russia was once again involved in a full scale conflict in Chechnya. The Caucasus issue is complicated by the more than 50 different ethnic groups each insisting to proclaim their religious convictions on the area. The situation holds serious danger for neighbouring countries, Kazakhstan, Georgia and Russia itself.
EYGPT: Fundamentalist Muslim rebels seek to topple the secular Egyptian government. At least 1,200 people have perished since the beginning of the rebellion. The conflict was primarily waged as an urban guerrilla/terrorist war. The opposition Muslim Brotherhood took part in elections in 2000, indicating that they felt armed force would not work.
INDONESIA: The struggle on the Indonesia islands is complicated by leaders of pro- and anti-independence movements, and by religious conflicts. More than 500 churches have been burned down or damaged by Muslims over the past six years. Both the Christians and Muslims blame each other for the violence and attempts at reconciliation made little progress. After a bloody struggle East Timor gained independence in 1999. The hostilities on other islands continue to claim dozens of lives, to such an extent that the break-up of Indonesia seem imminent.
INDIA/PAKISTAN: Muslim separatists in the Indian section declared a holy war against the mostly-Hindu India and started attacks in 1989, mainly from Pakistan-occupied section of Kashmir, and from Pakistan and Afghanistan. The conflict continues, with Pakistan also crushing rebellions with brute force in their section.
IRAQ: Supports Islamic terrorist acts around the world. Differing culture and religious groups within Iraq continues to clash with Shiite Muslims.
ISRAEL: Within its own borders, Israel continues to battle various Muslim organizations that seek independence for a Palestine state, areas made up of the Gaza strip, West.Bank, and part of Jerusalem. There is heavy international pressure on Israel to recognise a Palestinian state. The area of what today is Palestine was settled by Semitic tribes at a very early date. It was then called Canaan, and controlled by Canaanite tribes for more than 1,000 years. In about 1500 BC Hebrew, or Jewish, tribes began to enter the area. They later came into conflict with a people of Greek origin known as the Philistines. It is from them that the term Palestine is derived.
IRAN: After the Iranian Revolution in 1979 toppled the government of the Shah, the Mujahadeen Khalq soon began a bloody guerrilla war against the new Islamic government. The Mujahadeen are currently based in Iraq and conduct cross-border raids into Iran, as well as conducting urban guerrilla operations in the cities and conducting political assassinations. Iran occasionally launches raids against Khalq bases in Iraq.
KOSOVO: The ethnic Albanian KLA (Kosovo Liberation Army) in this Serbian province fought a guerilla war against Serbia to claim the region. Beginning in February 1999, Albanians were forced out of the province, prompting NATO to attack Serbia. By July 1999 Serb troops were forced out of Kosovo, only to open an avenue for Albanian Kosovars to attack Serb Kosovars. The Albanian Muslims have since burned down dozens of centuries-old Christian churches. In an effort to establish a Greater Albania, Albanian Muslim rebels also launched attacks in Macedonia.
NIGERIA: There are violent religious clashes in the city of Kaduna in northern Nigeria beginning February 21 2004 and have continued. Kaduna is the second largest city in the north. The clashes followed a march by tens of thousands of Christians to protest the proposal to introduce Muslim sharia law as the criminal code throughout Kaduna state. Reports speak of rival armed gangs of Christians and Muslims roving the streets. Churches and mosques have been put to the torch. Corpses were seen lying in the streets and people's bodies hanging out of cars and buses, apparently killed while attempting to flee the violence. Local human rights workers said that more than 400 had been killed as a result of the clashes. br />
SUDAN: The largest country in Africa, has been plagued by a succession of unstable civilian and military governments since it gained independence in 1956 from an Anglo-Egyptian condominium. The long-running conflict continues between the Arab Muslim northerners of Sudan, (the base of the government), and the African Christians of the south. In the mid-90s Sudan was home to Osama bin Ladin, the international terrorist responsible for the World Trade Center attack. It is estimated that more than 1,2 million people have been killed in the Sudan war, brining devastation to the Sudanese economy.
PHILIPPINES: The Phillipines armed forces, with assistance of US troops, are fighting Moslem rebels - they have been linked to Osama bin Laden's el Qaeda terrorist group - on the southern islands of the country. Muslim rebel groups seek autonomy/independence from the mostly Christian Philippines. One rebel group, the Abu Sayaf Group, is believed linked to Osama bin-Laden's Al-Qaida. This connection, plus their tactic of kidnapping and beheading Americans, led the United States to send Special Forces to aid the Philippine Army.
israel does not aim for civilians and instead tries to go after the leaders of movements that try to kill israeli civilians
does israel break cease fires?
man I'ma sign off here in a minute because this ignorance is making me heated.
the Western powers didn't create Israel. The United Nations, representing the governments of the world, approved Jewish statehood. While that would normally be enough, Israel's neighbors rejected this and the Jews on the ground actually had to fight for it.
The UK, the major colonial player in the region, arguably hindered Israel's creation by blockading refugees and arms.
Has Israel been an ally to the US? Damn right. But this was hardly the reason for its creation.
At the end of the day, Israel was established by Jews seeking self-determination. They did it in the face of unbeleivable odds and to suggest that this country was somehow delivered to them on a silver platter is a disgrace to the thousands of Jewish refugees that fought and died for it to come into existence.
Fair points, but bulldozing entire houses and apartment complexes doesn't quite approach the model of reason needed to decisively end the conflict...
and so do we, or have you not heard of a book called the bible?
Calm down, dude. Never said anything about a silver platter--it was definitely a tough road to hoe. But you're ignoring a lot of relevant information about the aggressiveness with which the US government was influenced by money and political connections to facilitate its creation. Its all right here.
thank you for educating the peoples on this. I think it very important that people know Israel was created as a Jewish state just a couple years after the end of WWII and the extermination of 6,000,000 Jews.
But we have gone everywhere in this thread and not returned to what this thread is about. Hamas, a terrorist organization who has been responsible for bombings, shootings and other non-diplomatic actions is now in power in a very volitile area.
As much as I am for a Palestinian state I am not for one ran by this kind of government. It's scary to think what might happen in the next few weeks/months/years in the area. Every positive step set up towards peace over the last 2 decades is in danger of falling away and being replaced with newfound anger and energy in the already violent struggle.
in the past israel has not been a model, but that has changed and they have been trying for peace for at least the last 10 years and when compared to the leaders of palestine they look like saints
it hasn't gone anywhere since 1948
valient. but how much of this strategy is enabled because they have the miltary means thanks to the USA? that's all i'm saying.
So it's the US's fault that Israel is not aiming for civilians?
So your comparing Israel's military (working under the government) to Palestinian extremists who operate underground and disseperate from the Palestinian Authority? Nice.
shut up thrifty matzo bitch
partly yes.