Allen Iverson at least led his team to the finals. Let's see Kobe do it without Shaq. It's gonna take some new teamates/trades for him to pull this off.
Not gonna happen, its about the team, AI didn't do it alone. You need a coach too (lets not forget) as well as support. Remember, Shaq couldn't do it alone either - what the hell did he do in Orlando??? Duncan can't do it alone and Jordan didn't do it alone either (Scottie, hell even Steve Kerr came through in that one game) and again - the coach... Bulls weren't shit with Jordan and Doug Collins. There are contributing factors not just one player alone takes their team to the finals and wins... So stop with the Kobe can't take a team to the finals....
Was there anyone on that Philly team that was an All Star when they went to the Finals? Refresh my memory. Of course no one does it alone. But If A.I. got to the Finals with role players and a great coach, well then Kobe should be able to pull this off since he's "obviously better".
I'm not saying Kobe is "better" (never said that), all I'm saying is people say Kobe can't take the Lak's to the finals alone. Fine, but - I just don't agree with that because no one has...
Maybe I should have rephrased it to "I'll take present-day Kobe over AI" because I was a Kobe hater of sorts. But this season he's playing with a real grit and passion that I don't really see in any other individual players. Like AI's MVP season or KG a couple years ago. Maybe too much because it causes him to come down hard on his teammates, then they just get scared to do anything. If he could just take a couple losses and do more setting up and a little less scoring, he'll be MVP this season (because that would lead to more team ball... and more wins). I'm hoping the game vs the Pistons will shut him down and force him to rely on his teammates.
Again, I think you're overplaying Kobe's background as a source of the criticism. I'm not saying it's a non-issue but I hardly think it's the MAIN issue. Especially with Nike's decision to pay him less than Lebron, the alleged rape charge had everything to do with their reluctance. I'm surprised Kobe even got a deal with that hanging over his head (though I don't remember the timeline and how the two events crossed over).
In any case, had Kobe signed with Nike out of the gate instead of Adidas, I wonder what kind of deal he could have gotten back when he first entered the league. (This being when he was the latest Air Apparent).
With Tyson, I still think you can't compare the two men just because 1) both are athletes and 2) had a rape charge. Boxers occupy a different space completely in American culture. Would it make sense to compare Jordan with Ali? I know people do it, but really, it's apples and oranges.
i think 90% of the criticism against kobe stems from the fact that he comes from a privileged background. mike tyson can get away with anything because he still hangs on the "i cam from nothing" storyts to "light up Philly", because somehow he is disrespecting his pseudo home town.
1) 90% of the fans I know/have heard from don't give a hoot about whether Kobe grew up poor or middle class. That's a non-issue here.
Its definitely an issue. When kobe was trying to renew his contract with nike, lebron signed with them for $100 million...much more than kobe could get. Part of the issue was kobe's pending rape trial, but the other, well documented issue, has been that kobe doesn't have any "street cred" cause he grew up in the burbs.
2) Tyson doesn't get away with anything anymore. I think most people look at him with a mix of either pity or disgust.
Now that he has become a cartoon character. Ten years ago he was still a "likeable" convicted rapist.
3) It doesn't make sense to compare a basketball player and a boxer. The former is, by definition, supposed to be a team player in ways that boxers are never expected to be.
true, but if we can agree that players like AI give up the ball less than Kobe, then obviously the issue of "kobe's selfishness" has nothing to do with his on court play.
Maybe I should have rephrased it to "I'll take present-day Kobe over AI" because I was a Kobe hater of sorts. But this season he's playing with a real grit and passion that I don't really see in any other individual players. Like AI's MVP season or KG a couple years ago. Maybe too much because it causes him to come down hard on his teammates, then they just get scared to do anything. If he could just take a couple losses and do more setting up and a little less scoring, he'll be MVP this season (because that would lead to more team ball... and more wins). I'm hoping the game vs the Pistons will shut him down and force him to rely on his teammates.
One of the things that will go against him in the voting will be making his teamates better and overall record.
You have to look at the best player on the best team. Scoring titles dont = MVP.
Again, I think you're overplaying Kobe's background as a source of the criticism. I'm not saying it's a non-issue but I hardly think it's the MAIN issue. Especially with Nike's decision to pay him less than Lebron, the alleged rape charge had everything to do with their reluctance. I'm surprised Kobe even got a deal with that hanging over his head (though I don't remember the timeline and how the two events crossed over).
Again, I think you're overplaying Kobe's background as a source of the criticism. I'm not saying it's a non-issue but I hardly think it's the MAIN issue. Especially with Nike's decision to pay him less than Lebron, the alleged rape charge had everything to do with their reluctance. I'm surprised Kobe even got a deal with that hanging over his head (though I don't remember the timeline and how the two events crossed over).
One of the things that will go against him in the voting will be making his teamates better and overall record.
You have to look at the best player on the best team. Scoring titles dont = MVP.
Nike and higher TV ratings will guarantee his MVP. Right now he's just the best individual player, but there's signs of better teamplay... I guess this all remains to be seen.
Again, I think you're overplaying Kobe's background as a source of the criticism. I'm not saying it's a non-issue but I hardly think it's the MAIN issue. Especially with Nike's decision to pay him less than Lebron, the alleged rape charge had everything to do with their reluctance. I'm surprised Kobe even got a deal with that hanging over his head (though I don't remember the timeline and how the two events crossed over).
Let me revise: I think Jordan's street cred had less to do with his background and more to do with the fact that he fucking kicked ass on the court. And managed not to seem like a spoiled brat. I wasn't suggesting he didn't have cred - my earlier post was worded poorly.
Let me revise: I think Jordan's street cred had less to do with his background and more to do with the fact that he fucking kicked ass on the court. And managed not to seem like a spoiled brat. I wasn't suggesting he didn't have cred - my earlier post was worded poorly.
jordan kicked ass on the court, but c'mon, although "brat" might not be the perfect adjetive, he basically controlled the Bulls for half of his career. he booted Collins off the team, told coaches what position he wanted to play, told the front office which players he no longer wanted on the team, and just basically ran shit. i'm not arguing that he didn't deserve to have that type of control (although that would be a great argument), i just think you guys are forgetting all the shit that jordan used to get away with. if kobe had any role in getting shaq traded...he learned it from watching jordan.
"Street cred" in NBA wasn't relevant until Allen Iverson came along and totally redefined the league. Anyway, I'm not entirely convinced "street cred" is really all that relevant even now, at least not in the same way that "street cred" is relevant in rap music. Certainly most of the more likable players in the league have become so likable (at least partially) because of their "street cred," but then you have out-of-this-world talents like Kevin Garnett and Lebron James who don't have "street cred" in the same way that AI and 'Melo do, but rest assured, the streets still love 'em.
"Street cred" in NBA wasn't relevant until Allen Iverson came along and totally redefined the league. Anyway, I'm not entirely convinced "street cred" is really all that relevant even now, at least not in the same way that "street cred" is relevant in rap music. Certainly most of the more likable players in the league have become so likable (at least partially) because of their "street cred," but then you have out-of-this-world talents like Kevin Garnett and Lebron James who don't have "street cred" in the same way that AI and 'Melo do, but rest assured, the streets still love 'em.
-e
This is my exact point, just stated a helluva lot clearer. Kobe's image problems don't stem - in my mind - from his childhood or how much his parents earned. If the streets aren't feeling him, I really don't think it has to do with the fact that he lived in Italy for a spell.
Shit, count how many rappers talking all this ghetto shit grew up middle class. Background is nothing so long as you're savvy enough to figure out how to remake your image.
"Street cred" in NBA wasn't relevant until Allen Iverson came along and totally redefined the league. Anyway, I'm not entirely convinced "street cred" is really all that relevant even now, at least not in the same way that "street cred" is relevant in rap music. Certainly most of the more likable players in the league have become so likable (at least partially) because of their "street cred," but then you have out-of-this-world talents like Kevin Garnett and Lebron James who don't have "street cred" in the same way that AI and 'Melo do, but rest assured, the streets still love 'em.
-e
This is my exact point, just stated a helluva lot clearer. Kobe's image problems don't stem - in my mind - from his childhood or how much his parents earned. If the streets aren't feeling him, I really don't think it has to do with the fact that he lived in Italy for a spell.
Shit, count how many rappers talking all this ghetto shit grew up middle class. Background is nothing so long as you're savvy enough to figure out how to remake your image.
I agree here, too. The only reason I bring up Kobe's childhood and privileged background is because I believe that it helped nurture his egomaniacal sense of "I deserve to be the best"-entitlement. Whether this is or isn't the case is of course up for debate and I don't want to get all arm-chairy psychologist, but there's something about his narcissism that is markedly different than just plain ol' "I'm the best at what I do" confidence that someone like Jay-Z performs.
To clarify, I don't think most people hate on Kobe because he was privileged, but I do suspect that his privileged background has helped make his brand of narcissism a particularly unlikable one.
People don't hate on Kobe because he was born rich, they hate on him because they feel that he was born bitch (not my sentiments, I'm just telling you what the streets have said in the past about Kobe). As of right now, though, Kobe's street cred is at an all-time high. Trust me, I've been hearing the skreets buzzing about Kobe's 81 all day today. Don't forget, I am one of the few soulstrutters who is TOTALLY connected to the streets (old as I may be).
I agree here, too. The only reason I bring up Kobe's childhood and privileged background is because I believe that it helped nurture his egomaniacal sense of "I deserve to be the best"-entitlement. Whether this is or isn't the case is of course up for debate and I don't want to get all arm-chairy psychologist, but there's something about his narcissism that is markedly different than just plain ol' "I'm the best at what I do" confidence that someone like Jay-Z performs.
To clarify, I don't think most people hate on Kobe because he was privileged, but I do suspect that his privileged background has helped make his brand of narcissism a particularly unlikable one.
-e
The issue of why Kobe does not have "street cred" is interesting, but not necessarily on point with why he is soo unlikeable (especially on soulstrut!). Grant Hill was also the son of a pro athlete (one who probably banked a lot more than joe bryant) and he never had any issues with being disliked.
Kobe was getting national attention when he was 16 years old, and by the time he was 17, most people knew him for 2 things: taking brandy to the prom, and his press conference announcing that he was going pro (where he rocked black sunglasses indoors!). So not the best start...but give him a break, dude was 17!
Since then he has had some regrettable soundbites, but overall, he pretty much sticks to the cliches. Like lebron, kobe is an incredibly boring interview. maybe that is part of the reason why his endorsements have not been so hot. But i strongly disagree with emynd and odub as far as kobe having some sort of unique quality that makes him unlikeable. i'm a long time hoops fan and kobe is a straight throw-back to the jordan, isiah thomas, barkley, magic era, when there were legitimate nba superstars and the nba was exciting.
kobe might be an egomaniac, but so what!! he deserves to be, and moreover, so are most STAR professional athletes. if you really wanna do your homework, go do some digging on isiah, bird and jordan. these guys were DESPISED by a lot of their teammates and there are some crazy stories about the dirty shit they did on the court.
Since then he has had some regrettable soundbites, but overall, he pretty much sticks to the cliches. Like lebron, kobe is an incredibly boring interview. maybe that is part of the reason why his endorsements have not been so hot. But i strongly disagree with emynd and odub as far as kobe having some sort of unique quality that makes him unlikeable. i'm a long time hoops fan and kobe is a straight throw-back to the jordan, isiah thomas, barkley, magic era, when there were legitimate nba superstars and the nba was exciting.
kobe might be an egomaniac, but so what!! he deserves to be, and moreover, so are most STAR professional athletes. if you really wanna do your homework, go do some digging on isiah, bird and jordan. these guys were DESPISED by a lot of their teammates and there are some crazy stories about the dirty shit they did on the court.
give kobe a break.
Man, I'm a long time NBA fan my darn self and I'm really not trying to be too harsh on Kobe. I've caught myself rooting for the dude recently and might even like him sometime soon(!). But there's really nothing you can say to convince me that his egomania is somehow comprable to that of jordan, isiah, barkely, bird, or whoever. His egomania was and is of a completely different breed. It simply wasn't one based on an overwhelming self-confidence, but was one that reaked of entitlement and privilege. It's not what he says or even what he does on the court, it's how he does these things.
A buddy of mine once said the following about Kobe:
"He's in that rare sect of players who make possible the idea of the selfish-assist. Kobe never passes because the game situation dictates it. Or because he geniunely understands that in the long run it is for the best. He only passes to prove that he's not selfish."
Beyond this selfishness though, I think Kobe's just too self-conscious for his own good... and so he comes across as some weird ego-maniac. To be sure, he plays a selfish brand of basketball but, like I said in an earlier post, there have been plenty of players that have done this and will continue to do so in the future. So, what's most unlikable about him isn't his game but his personality. He's constantly trying to say the right, professional thing and so just reiterates all the cliches we're used to hearing in post game interviews ("I gotta thank my teammates," "The win was what's important," "It was a tough game and we gotta give [insert other team here] all the credit," etc). But, when he reiterates these cliches, it reaks of insincerity and of a PR campaign on his own behalf, trying to win back all the fans he lost by doing this and this and that. Kobe came into the league a young punk privileged kid who thought he was going to dominate the league. There's nothing wrong with that, but he really didn't know how to play the media game and so, very quickly, he convinced fans pretty much everywhere that he was a selfish, over-privileged, over-confident egomaniac. Everything he's done since then has seemed like an insincere PR effort to convince us that he's NOT these things. Contrast that with someone like AI or KG wh oboth came into the league around the same time but never really compromised much of themselves for the media.
I mean, I honestly feel for dude because he's certainly not as horrible a person as I've convinced myself he is. But, there is nothing at all comprabale between the way Kobe carries himself and those aforementioned greats. Kobe is still this insincere, narcissistic prick who tries way too hard to say and do the "right" thing.
But there's really nothing you can say to convince me that his egomania is somehow comprable to that of jordan, isiah, barkely, bird, or whoever. His egomania was and is of a completely different breed. It simply wasn't one based on an overwhelming self-confidence, but was one that reaked of entitlement and privilege.
-e
This is reaching (or surpassing) overkill on my part, so i'll keep it short. Kobe was privileged in that he grew up around hoops and was the son of a pro baller, but he was not rich by any means, at BEST, he was (lower)upper-middle class. Further, while he spent his childhood in Italy and went to high school in the Philly Burbs, he played hoops where ever he could get a game, including the inner-city, but mostly at St. Joe's University, where he practiced with the Sixers while still in high school!!
I hate to see so much criticism directed his way (and largely based on his relatively harmless/naive comments off the court), not because i am a fan, but because dude is such a good example of a HARD WORKING professional athlete who is all about his sport. Shaq might have put in work to get where he is, but Kobe put in overtime. I really don't get where you are coming from by saying that he "reaks of entitlement." This is gonna reveal my bias, but i grew up playing hoops against kobe (starting in 8th grade), and this is just not the case. People always doubted his skills because he played hoops in a suburban league. But when he got tested (in summer leagues and state tournaments) he made the doubters look real bad and i always thought he did it with class. No technicals, no talking, just balling.
Damn! I'm bummed I didn't have a chance to see this game. Kobe must have been on fuggin FIRE!!! Dude is the truth, no doubt. Still...
Jordan carried his team to victory in a close (117-113) nail-biter. Kobe scored 81 b/c he had a hot hand and decided to keep shooting, not because his team needed him to.
no offense but you did not see the game last night. i watched the whole thing and the lakers were getting bitched in the first half. it was close to embarassing. the raptors were up by 20 at one point and scored 63 in the first half.
if kobe didn't go off, the lakers would have lost the game hands down. they needed 65+ from kobe and he delivered. he practically took all the lakers shots in the 2nd half and they were better for it.
i've always been a kobe hater, but last nights performance changed my mind. he was extremely composed, cool under pressure, calm (18-20FT), and he took his team on his back. in other words he played like a champion and delivered for all the fans.
This is gonna reveal my bias, but i grew up playing hoops against kobe (starting in 8th grade), and this is just not the case. People always doubted his skills because he played hoops in a suburban league. But when he got tested (in summer leagues and state tournaments) he made the doubters look real bad and i always thought he did it with class. No technicals, no talking, just balling.
The fact that there are more people who echo my thoughts about Kobe than there are people who echo your thoughts seems to prove my point that he has succesfully presented himself as a freaking prick, right? I mean, your bias is instructive. It's certainly possible that "in reality," dude is a hard-working, classy dude (and it seems that most of the players in the league seem to like Kobe, so he can't be all bad), but I think your bias is more at play in your assessment than any sort of misreading in my assessment of the guy.
Fact of the matter is, basically since the beginning of his professional career, Kobe has made it really easy for a lot of basketball fans to hate on him. I'm finally starting to come around to the dude, not so much because I respect his game--which I always have--but just sort've because I feel bad for him at this point. I'm beginning to realize that all along his narcissism was a somewhat meager self-consciousness about wanting to do the right thing and be a good/great, classy player, etc. His failure to really be that likable guy he's always wanted to be is pretty sad and somewhat endearing at this point.
Comments
2001 NBA Finals Statistics
PLAYER AVERAGES
REBOUNDS
Player G GS MPG FG% 3p% FT% OFF DEF TOT APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
Allen Iverson 5 5 47.4 .407 .282 .729 1.00 4.60 5.60 3.8 1.80 .20 2.40 2.40 35.6
Eric Snow 5 1 32.8 .407 .000 .731 2.20 2.20 4.40 6.0 1.60 .20 2.80 2.80 12.6
Aaron McKie 5 5 41.4 .313 .444 .667 1.40 4.00 5.40 6.0 1.20 .60 2.80 2.00 8.0
Tyrone Hill 5 5 28.2 .394 .000 .778 1.40 5.20 6.60 .4 .00 1.20 1.00 4.20 6.6
Matt Geiger 5 0 10.8 .667 .000 1.000 .40 .60 1.00 .4 .20 .00 .60 4.00 5.2
Raja Bell 5 0 15.8 .308 .000 .500 .40 1.40 1.80 .8 2.00 .00 .80 2.00 2.6
Todd MacCulloch 5 0 6.2 .417 .000 .750 1.00 .40 1.40 .0 .00 .00 .40 .80 2.6
Jumaine Jones 5 4 12.4 .400 .500 .000 .40 1.60 2.00 .2 .20 .40 .40 1.00 2.0
George Lynch 2 0 7.0 .333 .000 .000 1.00 1.50 2.50 .5 1.00 .00 .00 1.50 1.0
Rodney Buford 3 0 4.3 .167 .000 .000 .70 1.30 2.00 .0 .00 .00 .33 .70 .7
Team Averages 5 0 245.0 .424 .288 .715 13.2 29.6 42.8 18.4 7.8 4.8 13.0 25.0 93.8
Opponents 5 0 245.0 .465 .480 .677 13.4 31.8 45.2 23.0 8.2 8.8 15.0 23.2 100.6
created: 10/04/2004,11:32 AM
Where's the Second option on this team????
Who's the better MC?
Shaq
Kobe
A.I.
Webber
Again, I think you're overplaying Kobe's background as a source of the criticism. I'm not saying it's a non-issue but I hardly think it's the MAIN issue. Especially with Nike's decision to pay him less than Lebron, the alleged rape charge had everything to do with their reluctance. I'm surprised Kobe even got a deal with that hanging over his head (though I don't remember the timeline and how the two events crossed over).
In any case, had Kobe signed with Nike out of the gate instead of Adidas, I wonder what kind of deal he could have gotten back when he first entered the league. (This being when he was the latest Air Apparent).
With Tyson, I still think you can't compare the two men just because 1) both are athletes and 2) had a rape charge. Boxers occupy a different space completely in American culture. Would it make sense to compare Jordan with Ali? I know people do it, but really, it's apples and oranges.
One of the things that will go against him in the voting will be making his teamates better and overall record.
You have to look at the best player on the best team. Scoring titles dont = MVP.
http://espn.go.com/nba/s/2003/0707/1577650.html
Where did Jordan fall on the street cred scale?
Nike and higher TV ratings will guarantee his MVP. Right now he's just the best individual player, but there's signs of better teamplay... I guess this all remains to be seen.
Always had street cred. And will never lose it.
Name a Kobe product?
Exactly. Plus Nike rammed that first sneaker down the nations throat.
There was no campaign like this before. They set the precedent.
jordan kicked ass on the court, but c'mon, although "brat" might not be the perfect adjetive, he basically controlled the Bulls for half of his career. he booted Collins off the team, told coaches what position he wanted to play, told the front office which players he no longer wanted on the team, and just basically ran shit. i'm not arguing that he didn't deserve to have that type of control (although that would be a great argument), i just think you guys are forgetting all the shit that jordan used to get away with. if kobe had any role in getting shaq traded...he learned it from watching jordan.
huarache?
nutella.
This is a pointless question.
"Street cred" in NBA wasn't relevant until Allen Iverson came along and totally redefined the league. Anyway, I'm not entirely convinced "street cred" is really all that relevant even now, at least not in the same way that "street cred" is relevant in rap music. Certainly most of the more likable players in the league have become so likable (at least partially) because of their "street cred," but then you have out-of-this-world talents like Kevin Garnett and Lebron James who don't have "street cred" in the same way that AI and 'Melo do, but rest assured, the streets still love 'em.
-e
This is my exact point, just stated a helluva lot clearer. Kobe's image problems don't stem - in my mind - from his childhood or how much his parents earned. If the streets aren't feeling him, I really don't think it has to do with the fact that he lived in Italy for a spell.
Shit, count how many rappers talking all this ghetto shit grew up middle class. Background is nothing so long as you're savvy enough to figure out how to remake your image.
I agree here, too. The only reason I bring up Kobe's childhood and privileged background is because I believe that it helped nurture his egomaniacal sense of "I deserve to be the best"-entitlement. Whether this is or isn't the case is of course up for debate and I don't want to get all arm-chairy psychologist, but there's something about his narcissism that is markedly different than just plain ol' "I'm the best at what I do" confidence that someone like Jay-Z performs.
To clarify, I don't think most people hate on Kobe because he was privileged, but I do suspect that his privileged background has helped make his brand of narcissism a particularly unlikable one.
-e
Kobe was raised to win.
The issue of why Kobe does not have "street cred" is interesting, but not necessarily on point with why he is soo unlikeable (especially on soulstrut!). Grant Hill was also the son of a pro athlete (one who probably banked a lot more than joe bryant) and he never had any issues with being disliked.
Kobe was getting national attention when he was 16 years old, and by the time he was 17, most people knew him for 2 things: taking brandy to the prom, and his press conference announcing that he was going pro (where he rocked black sunglasses indoors!). So not the best start...but give him a break, dude was 17!
Since then he has had some regrettable soundbites, but overall, he pretty much sticks to the cliches. Like lebron, kobe is an incredibly boring interview. maybe that is part of the reason why his endorsements have not been so hot. But i strongly disagree with emynd and odub as far as kobe having some sort of unique quality that makes him unlikeable. i'm a long time hoops fan and kobe is a straight throw-back to the jordan, isiah thomas, barkley, magic era, when there were legitimate nba superstars and the nba was exciting.
kobe might be an egomaniac, but so what!! he deserves to be, and moreover, so are most STAR professional athletes. if you really wanna do your homework, go do some digging on isiah, bird and jordan. these guys were DESPISED by a lot of their teammates and there are some crazy stories about the dirty shit they did on the court.
give kobe a break.
well to be fair (and not just a kobe hatter), remember that one time he scorted like 60 pts and the team lost?
Man, I'm a long time NBA fan my darn self and I'm really not trying to be too harsh on Kobe. I've caught myself rooting for the dude recently and might even like him sometime soon(!). But there's really nothing you can say to convince me that his egomania is somehow comprable to that of jordan, isiah, barkely, bird, or whoever. His egomania was and is of a completely different breed. It simply wasn't one based on an overwhelming self-confidence, but was one that reaked of entitlement and privilege. It's not what he says or even what he does on the court, it's how he does these things.
A buddy of mine once said the following about Kobe:
"He's in that rare sect of players who make possible the idea of the selfish-assist. Kobe never passes because the game situation dictates it. Or because he geniunely understands that in the long run it is for the best. He only passes to prove that he's not selfish."
Beyond this selfishness though, I think Kobe's just too self-conscious for his own good... and so he comes across as some weird ego-maniac. To be sure, he plays a selfish brand of basketball but, like I said in an earlier post, there have been plenty of players that have done this and will continue to do so in the future. So, what's most unlikable about him isn't his game but his personality. He's constantly trying to say the right, professional thing and so just reiterates all the cliches we're used to hearing in post game interviews ("I gotta thank my teammates," "The win was what's important," "It was a tough game and we gotta give [insert other team here] all the credit," etc). But, when he reiterates these cliches, it reaks of insincerity and of a PR campaign on his own behalf, trying to win back all the fans he lost by doing this and this and that. Kobe came into the league a young punk privileged kid who thought he was going to dominate the league. There's nothing wrong with that, but he really didn't know how to play the media game and so, very quickly, he convinced fans pretty much everywhere that he was a selfish, over-privileged, over-confident egomaniac. Everything he's done since then has seemed like an insincere PR effort to convince us that he's NOT these things. Contrast that with someone like AI or KG wh oboth came into the league around the same time but never really compromised much of themselves for the media.
I mean, I honestly feel for dude because he's certainly not as horrible a person as I've convinced myself he is. But, there is nothing at all comprabale between the way Kobe carries himself and those aforementioned greats. Kobe is still this insincere, narcissistic prick who tries way too hard to say and do the "right" thing.
Just do you, homie, and shut the eff up!
-e
This happens to Iverson all the god damn time, too. Dude will throw up 51... in a loss (to the Hawks, no less).
-e
This is reaching (or surpassing) overkill on my part, so i'll keep it short. Kobe was privileged in that he grew up around hoops and was the son of a pro baller, but he was not rich by any means, at BEST, he was (lower)upper-middle class. Further, while he spent his childhood in Italy and went to high school in the Philly Burbs, he played hoops where ever he could get a game, including the inner-city, but mostly at St. Joe's University, where he practiced with the Sixers while still in high school!!
I hate to see so much criticism directed his way (and largely based on his relatively harmless/naive comments off the court), not because i am a fan, but because dude is such a good example of a HARD WORKING professional athlete who is all about his sport. Shaq might have put in work to get where he is, but Kobe put in overtime. I really don't get where you are coming from by saying that he "reaks of entitlement." This is gonna reveal my bias, but i grew up playing hoops against kobe (starting in 8th grade), and this is just not the case. People always doubted his skills because he played hoops in a suburban league. But when he got tested (in summer leagues and state tournaments) he made the doubters look real bad and i always thought he did it with class. No technicals, no talking, just balling.
no offense but you did not see the game last night. i watched the whole thing and the lakers were getting bitched in the first half. it was close to embarassing. the raptors were up by 20 at one point and scored 63 in the first half.
if kobe didn't go off, the lakers would have lost the game hands down. they needed 65+ from kobe and he delivered. he practically took all the lakers shots in the 2nd half and they were better for it.
i've always been a kobe hater, but last nights performance changed my mind. he was extremely composed, cool under pressure, calm (18-20FT), and he took his team on his back. in other words he played like a champion and delivered for all the fans.
nuff respect due for an amazing performance.
don't hate appreciate.
The fact that there are more people who echo my thoughts about Kobe than there are people who echo your thoughts seems to prove my point that he has succesfully presented himself as a freaking prick, right? I mean, your bias is instructive. It's certainly possible that "in reality," dude is a hard-working, classy dude (and it seems that most of the players in the league seem to like Kobe, so he can't be all bad), but I think your bias is more at play in your assessment than any sort of misreading in my assessment of the guy.
Fact of the matter is, basically since the beginning of his professional career, Kobe has made it really easy for a lot of basketball fans to hate on him. I'm finally starting to come around to the dude, not so much because I respect his game--which I always have--but just sort've because I feel bad for him at this point. I'm beginning to realize that all along his narcissism was a somewhat meager self-consciousness about wanting to do the right thing and be a good/great, classy player, etc. His failure to really be that likable guy he's always wanted to be is pretty sad and somewhat endearing at this point.
Anyway, he scared 81. That's amazing.
-e