he played hoops where ever he could get a game, including the inner-city, but mostly at St. Joe's University, where he practiced with the Sixers while still in high school!!
Yo Keith, I know you know this... not only was he playing against the Sixers in high school, he was murdering them! While still in high school! Dude OWNED Jerry Stackhouse, it was f**kin' pitiful! I still can't believe how many people slept on that kid back then, wondering if he would be able to make it as a pro. It was so obvious even at Lower Merion that dude was gonna be unfukwitable.
The fact that there are more people who echo my thoughts about Kobe than there are people who echo your thoughts seems to prove my point that he has succesfully presented himself as a freaking prick, right?
No, your (collective) perception of kobe probably reveals more about you (and your biases) than it does about him.
he played hoops where ever he could get a game, including the inner-city, but mostly at St. Joe's University, where he practiced with the Sixers while still in high school!!
Yo Keith, I know you know this... not only was he playing against the Sixers in high school, he was murdering them! While still in high school! Dude OWNED Jerry Stackhouse, it was f**kin' pitiful! I still can't believe how many people slept on that kid back then, wondering if he would be able to make it as a pro. It was so obvious even at Lower Merion that dude was gonna be unfukwitable.
For a while, I think this was just a rumor, but i'm pretty sure I remember John Lucas (who was the coach at the time) confirming this in an interview around the time Kobe got drafted.
he played hoops where ever he could get a game, including the inner-city, but mostly at St. Joe's University, where he practiced with the Sixers while still in high school!!
Yo Keith, I know you know this... not only was he playing against the Sixers in high school, he was murdering them! While still in high school! Dude OWNED Jerry Stackhouse, it was f**kin' pitiful! I still can't believe how many people slept on that kid back then, wondering if he would be able to make it as a pro. It was so obvious even at Lower Merion that dude was gonna be unfukwitable.
For a while, I think this was just a rumor, but i'm pretty sure I remember John Lucas (who was the coach at the time) confirming this in an interview around the time Kobe got drafted.
Oh, most definitely confirmed by John Lucas (who put it a lot nicer than I did) and also by a lot of Philly writers who used to see this high school kid abusing a bunch of so-called pro players almost with ease.
The fact that there are more people who echo my thoughts about Kobe than there are people who echo your thoughts seems to prove my point that he has succesfully presented himself as a freaking prick, right?
No, your (collective) perception of kobe probably reveals more about you (and your biases) than it does about him.
i agree with the latter here.
i'd also add that kobe has little-to-no team around him. odom is the closest thing to anyone who can put up numbers night in and night out, but he's been inconsistent all season - though this could easily be attributed to the fact that kobe's game overwhelms his teammantes to the point to where odom can never get in a groove. as for the rest of the lakers, however, they're straight jv.
The fact that there are more people who echo my thoughts about Kobe than there are people who echo your thoughts seems to prove my point that he has succesfully presented himself as a freaking prick, right?
No, your (collective) perception of kobe probably reveals more about you (and your biases) than it does about him.
Honestly, this makes no sense. You played against him. You experienced him first hand. All people like me and the rest of the world are privy to is how he presents himself on the court and in the media.
If my point is that he presents himself like a prick in the media and then it's "my bias" to only go on what this guy gives me through the media, well then fine, I'm "biased."
It's not ridiculous for me to react to how he presents himself. It is ridiculous of you to expect me to agree with your perception of him just because you played with him and assure me otherwise.
I think it's safe to say, we have an NBA season high for this season. and i can calmly rest now just in case AI, Lebron, T-Mac, or Vince tries fucking with that record.
i'm glad he did it, if not for the "nba analyst" who dedicated an entire article in SI, on how "he is a failure" for not going for 80, instead of the 62 he notched against Dallas. JUST SHUT THE FUCK UP ALREADY.
Oh and what Emynd and Philmost are saying. Objective views from knowledgeable dudes. Respect.
Yeah. Mike also had more than 2[/b] assists for almost every single game of his career, too. I mean, 2[/b]? That's not just low - that's bullshit basketball. Jordan could[/b] have gone for 80, but he almost always involved the team around him (even when the almighty Dave Corzine was a starter). But here's the most telling stat - even more than the "2 assists" line - other there isn't even another Laker with more than 7 assists (Odom). Kobe made 28 field goals and only 16 of these - the total number of team assists minus Kobe's - could have been initiated from someone else. That means coast-to-coast Kobe, no passes, for nearly more than half of his made shots. That's not even counting his 18 misses. Incredible. Let me know if my math is incorrect, because I don't think it is.
There will never be another Jordan just like there will never be another Dr. J just like there will never be another Ali just like there will never be another...
There are some players who are transcendent above and beyond the game. Kobe isn't there yet. He (and Lebron) may never get there and if they do get there, they won't have eclipsed Jordan. They'll simply be them.
So yeah, Jordan never scored 81 points. So the fuck what? That's like saying, "well...Malcolm never spoke in front of the Lincoln Memorial." Your point being?
So yeah, Jordan never scored 81 points. So the fuck what? That's like saying, "well...Malcolm never spoke in front of the Lincoln Memorial." Your point being?
I think it's safe to say, we have an NBA season high for this season.
Don't be so sure. I honestly would not be surprised if Kobe tops that schitt himself. If he'd have played in the 4th quarter of that game where he had 60-something he almost definitely would've had over 81. I've been debating this with the homies out here in the real world, but I think if Kobe gets in a zone early against a bad team and his teammates don't mind sacrificing their own stats in order to help dude make history... well, let's just say Wilt's 100 might seriously be in jeopardy. Not saying it's gonna happen... I just would not be surprised at this point. Selfish basketball or not, that would be some incredible schitt (and yes, I would most definitely rank that over Wilt's accomplishment).
The fact that there are more people who echo my thoughts about Kobe than there are people who echo your thoughts seems to prove my point that he has succesfully presented himself as a freaking prick, right?
No, your (collective) perception of kobe probably reveals more about you (and your biases) than it does about him.
Honestly, this makes no sense.
It makes perfect sense. You say that there is some unique quality to kobe, which unlike the other superstar/narcissistic star athletes we know and love (too many to count), makes kobe particularly unlikeable. Yet you haven't backed up your argument with anything about him, other than his so-called "privileged" background that would give cause for you to dislike him. If your answer is that he is a ball-hog, or that he speaks too highly of himself....goddamn, that is like the prototype for an nba all-star!!
The fact that there are more people who echo my thoughts about Kobe than there are people who echo your thoughts seems to prove my point that he has succesfully presented himself as a freaking prick, right?
So what if the general perception of kobe is that he is a prick?!!? What does that prove? A year ago, the general perception was that George W. Bush was doing a great job. At the time of the 2004 election, the general perception was that Saddam was linked to 9-11 and that we found weapons of mass destruction in Iraq!!
Your opinion is your own, i'm not trying to force-feed you to like Kobe. I really don't care. My point is that your reasons for disliking him are suspect, and therefore, probably say more about you than him.
The fact that there are more people who echo my thoughts about Kobe than there are people who echo your thoughts seems to prove my point that he has succesfully presented himself as a freaking prick, right?
No, your (collective) perception of kobe probably reveals more about you (and your biases) than it does about him.
Honestly, this makes no sense.
It makes perfect sense. You say that there is some unique quality to kobe, which unlike the other superstar/narcissistic star athletes we know and love (too many to count), makes kobe particularly unlikeable. Yet you haven't backed up your argument with anything about him, other than his so-called "privileged" background that would give cause for you to dislike him. If your answer is that he is a ball-hog, or that he speaks too highly of himself....goddamn, that is like the prototype for an nba all-star!!
For me, I like watching Kobe play but I completely dislike him as a person.
1) He wanted Shaq out so that he could be the center of attention/team. Yes, I know, Shaq is getting on in years, yes I know, he gets injured these days, but still if Kobe was about winning he'd want Shaq there because now Kobe's lucky if he gets back to the championships. Kareem played all the way to 40 and towards the end there he hardly even ran down court half the time, but was still an essential part of the Lakers. Shaq, if he wants to play that long will do the same in his career.
2) He wanted Phil Jackson out. After publicly denying that and after publicly denying that he contacted Coach K from Duke, it later came out that indeed he'd called up Coach K to try to get him to come to the Lakers and that in fact he did want Jackson out.
Those two events alone make Kobe a selfish person to me. He wants to be the center of everything and this 81 point outburst, while completely amazing, just plays into what he wants to do as an INDIVIDUAL.
It makes perfect sense. You say that there is some unique quality to kobe, which unlike the other superstar/narcissistic star athletes we know and love (too many to count), makes kobe particularly unlikeable. Yet you haven't backed up your argument with anything about him, other than his so-called "privileged" background that would give cause for you to dislike him. If your answer is that he is a ball-hog, or that he speaks too highly of himself....goddamn, that is like the prototype for an nba all-star!!
No. I explained it. I dislike(d) him because when he first came in the league he was an 18 year old with this monstrous ego that really wasn't doing much of anything. Easy to dislike somebody with a huge ego that hasn't paid any dues whatsoever, right? Then after that, he attempted to downplay his ego and be a likable NBA star that says all the right things and all these cliches that he spit came across as incredibly insincere and painted him to be this dude with a huge ego who was trying to pretend he didn't have an ego, which made him even more unlikable. This is to say nothing of his shit-eating grin and the pompous way he carries himself on the court.
I didn't mean to argue that his privilege is most definitely what inspired him to act the way he does or to claim that I dislike(d) him because[/b] of that privilege. I was just attempting to map out an observation where he sort've acted like an over-priviliged kid who felt like he was not only the best, but was entitled to being the best. It was more me trying to understand Kobe than it was any sort of attack on who he is or where he came from.
So what if the general perception of kobe is that he is a prick?!!? What does that prove? A year ago, the general perception was that George W. Bush was doing a great job. At the time of the 2004 election, the general perception was that Saddam was linked to 9-11 and that we found weapons of mass destruction in Iraq!!
Not the same thing. I'm not talking about the uninformed general populus's opinion of Kobe (which is pretty much what we're talking about when we talk voting and politics), but I'm talking about well-informed basketball fans who dislike(d) Kobe for many of the similar reasons that I do.
Your opinion is your own, i'm not trying to force-feed you to like Kobe. I really don't care. My point is that your reasons for disliking him are suspect, and therefore, probably say more about you than him.
Of course my reasons say more about me than him, just like your reasons say more about you than they say about him. This is sports for christ's sake. We have subjective opinions of athletes based on how we perceive them and how they present themselves to us. I'm not claiming to have any access to Kobe's authentic soul. My point was and is that he has carried himself like a egomaniacal prick way before he was the All-Star he is. He's spent the rest of his career trying to win fans back by presenting himself as a humble, "good guy" type of dude and (until recently), I've found it insincere and corny.
There are some players who are transcendent above and beyond the game. Kobe isn't there yet. He (and Lebron) may never get there and if they do get there, they won't have eclipsed Jordan. They'll simply be them.
Thank you for summarizing general public perception and how it's wrong in measuring the greatness and entertainment value of today's 2's and 3's.
if Kobe was about winning he'd want Shaq there because now Kobe's lucky if he gets back to the championships.
so i guess we'll see the Miami Heat winning a ring this year ?
i mean they're far more talented than the Lakers would be with Shaq....and they do have a Hall Of Fame coach
and they are in a terrible division
should be no problem for them....
i'm sayin' they have a much better roster than the Pistons and Spurs......
right?
No, because they have a bunch of mismatched players. I don't like Antoine Walker at all for example. On paper it might be more talented, but last year they had more balance and were an injury away from making the playoffs. This year their playoff bound but I don't think they have a chance to get to the Finals. Without Shaq, Miami made it to the 1st round of the playoffs and lost. With Shaq they lost in the Eastern Conference Championships if you want to talk about his impact overall on that team.
P.S. - Did Kobe want Shaq and Jackson out of town or not? And if he did, why did he want them both out?
Kobe and Shaq bothed loved Phil......but they both had seperate issues with his handling of the other
Kobe was upset that Phil never demanded Shaq play hard on defense and get in better physical shape....
Shaq was upset Phil never demanded Kobe stay within the offense
they both respected Phil and wanted to play for Phil ...but these were their issues with him
Kobe never had major issues playing with Shaq he just wanted credit for bailing him out of those big games over the years.....those big playoffs wins against Sac,S.A,Indiana and a few more over the years were because Kobe picked up the slack for Shaq's defensive and rebounding laziness.... the reason Kobe went completely out of the offense in the Detroit finals was because everyone on that team saw Shaq getting used on defense and not rebounding and Phil never challenged him about it ...so Kobe sayed fuck it...i'm just not going to give him the ball if he wont play D or rebound
Shaq was done with the lakers in pre-season when he embarassed Dr.Buss by cursing him..no way he was going to stay here after he pulled that B.S and he knew it ...which is why he went to the extreme and never got into shape or gave maximum effort.....
Phil wasn't returning if Shaq wasn't ...so they both made extreme salary demands basicaly knowing Buss wasn't having it.....
Kobe's reason for not wanting to initialy return was because he knew the entire sports world would blame him for breaking up the team.....and they do
P.S. - Did Kobe want Shaq and Jackson out of town or not? And if he did, why did he want them both out?
Kobe was upset that Phil never demanded Shaq play hard on defense and get in better physical shape....
What is Shaq's legacy going to be? Obviously, he is one of the most dominant big men ever, but he is also freakin' enormous, so i don't know what that really says about his basketball skills. Hakeem, Duncan & even Ewing could shoot circles around Shaq and while they didn't have the power Shaq does, they all had much better post moves (especially Hakeem!). People like to compare Shaq to Wilt, but although Wilt was just as bad from the free throw line as Shaq, he had more of an all around game. Chamberlain was a better passer (he actually led the league in assists one year!) and he was known for his fall-away jump shot. Shaq is a decent passer, but dude can't shoot from anywhere outside of 5 feet. Also, while Shaq is a huge presence in the middle, you don't hear people saying he is a great defensive player, like Hakeem and Bill Russell.
One thing tho. You don't win championships with having one player on the team doing a huge % of your scoring. Thats great for 1-2 times a year for the fans and for media to have something to write about. But I bet it would hurt the team if that was a regular deal.
That said, I don't think anyone is saying that Kobe is a shitty talentless player. 81 with the way the league is set up (With the 3 seconds rule) is pretty amazing.
P.S. - Did Kobe want Shaq and Jackson out of town or not? And if he did, why did he want them both out?
Kobe and Shaq bothed loved Phil......but they both had seperate issues with his handling of the other
Kobe was upset that Phil never demanded Shaq play hard on defense and get in better physical shape....
Shaq was upset Phil never demanded Kobe stay within the offense
they both respected Phil and wanted to play for Phil ...but these were their issues with him
Kobe never had major issues playing with Shaq he just wanted credit for bailing him out of those big games over the years.....those big playoffs wins against Sac,S.A,Indiana and a few more over the years were because Kobe picked up the slack for Shaq's defensive and rebounding laziness.... the reason Kobe went completely out of the offense in the Detroit finals was because everyone on that team saw Shaq getting used on defense and not rebounding and Phil never challenged him about it ...so Kobe sayed fuck it...i'm just not going to give him the ball if he wont play D or rebound
Shaq was done with the lakers in pre-season when he embarassed Dr.Buss by cursing him..no way he was going to stay here after he pulled that B.S and he knew it ...which is why he went to the extreme and never got into shape or gave maximum effort.....
Phil wasn't returning if Shaq wasn't ...so they both made extreme salary demands basicaly knowing Buss wasn't having it.....
Kobe's reason for not wanting to initialy return was because he knew the entire sports world would blame him for breaking up the team.....and they do
Comments
Yo Keith, I know you know this... not only was he playing against the Sixers in high school, he was murdering them! While still in high school! Dude OWNED Jerry Stackhouse, it was f**kin' pitiful! I still can't believe how many people slept on that kid back then, wondering if he would be able to make it as a pro. It was so obvious even at Lower Merion that dude was gonna be unfukwitable.
No, your (collective) perception of kobe probably reveals more about you (and your biases) than it does about him.
Oh, most definitely confirmed by John Lucas (who put it a lot nicer than I did) and also by a lot of Philly writers who used to see this high school kid abusing a bunch of so-called pro players almost with ease.
and Odam had 8. What a "Team"
Take that shit to the AndOne Mixtape video
i agree with the latter here.
i'd also add that kobe has little-to-no team around him. odom is the closest thing to anyone who can put up numbers night in and night out, but he's been inconsistent all season - though this could easily be attributed to the fact that kobe's game overwhelms his teammantes to the point to where odom can never get in a groove. as for the rest of the lakers, however, they're straight jv.
Honestly, this makes no sense. You played against him. You experienced him first hand. All people like me and the rest of the world are privy to is how he presents himself on the court and in the media.
If my point is that he presents himself like a prick in the media and then it's "my bias" to only go on what this guy gives me through the media, well then fine, I'm "biased."
It's not ridiculous for me to react to how he presents himself. It is ridiculous of you to expect me to agree with your perception of him just because you played with him and assure me otherwise.
-e
H2>81/H2>
I think it's safe to say, we have an NBA season high for this season. and i can calmly rest now just in case AI, Lebron, T-Mac, or Vince tries fucking with that record.
"Haters wanna be me, then come see me!"
Oh and what Emynd and Philmost are saying. Objective views from knowledgeable dudes. Respect.
the box score is kinda funny yo......
(front page of the Monday times)
"Michael never did it."
Yeah. Mike also had more than 2[/b] assists for almost every single game of his career, too. I mean, 2[/b]? That's not just low - that's bullshit basketball. Jordan could[/b] have gone for 80, but he almost always involved the team around him (even when the almighty Dave Corzine was a starter). But here's the most telling stat - even more than the "2 assists" line - other there isn't even another Laker with more than 7 assists (Odom). Kobe made 28 field goals and only 16 of these - the total number of team assists minus Kobe's - could have been initiated from someone else. That means coast-to-coast Kobe, no passes, for nearly more than half of his made shots. That's not even counting his 18 misses. Incredible. Let me know if my math is incorrect, because I don't think it is.
Comes down to
Kobe Bryant is a talented bitch.
There will never be another Jordan just like there will never be another Dr. J just like there will never be another Ali just like there will never be another...
There are some players who are transcendent above and beyond the game. Kobe isn't there yet. He (and Lebron) may never get there and if they do get there, they won't have eclipsed Jordan. They'll simply be them.
So yeah, Jordan never scored 81 points. So the fuck what? That's like saying, "well...Malcolm never spoke in front of the Lincoln Memorial." Your point being?
not exactly
Don't be so sure. I honestly would not be surprised if Kobe tops that schitt himself. If he'd have played in the 4th quarter of that game where he had 60-something he almost definitely would've had over 81. I've been debating this with the homies out here in the real world, but I think if Kobe gets in a zone early against a bad team and his teammates don't mind sacrificing their own stats in order to help dude make history... well, let's just say Wilt's 100 might seriously be in jeopardy. Not saying it's gonna happen... I just would not be surprised at this point. Selfish basketball or not, that would be some incredible schitt (and yes, I would most definitely rank that over Wilt's accomplishment).
It makes perfect sense. You say that there is some unique quality to kobe, which unlike the other superstar/narcissistic star athletes we know and love (too many to count), makes kobe particularly unlikeable. Yet you haven't backed up your argument with anything about him, other than his so-called "privileged" background that would give cause for you to dislike him. If your answer is that he is a ball-hog, or that he speaks too highly of himself....goddamn, that is like the prototype for an nba all-star!!
So what if the general perception of kobe is that he is a prick?!!? What does that prove? A year ago, the general perception was that George W. Bush was doing a great job. At the time of the 2004 election, the general perception was that Saddam was linked to 9-11 and that we found weapons of mass destruction in Iraq!!
Your opinion is your own, i'm not trying to force-feed you to like Kobe. I really don't care. My point is that your reasons for disliking him are suspect, and therefore, probably say more about you than him.
For me, I like watching Kobe play but I completely dislike him as a person.
1) He wanted Shaq out so that he could be the center of attention/team. Yes, I know, Shaq is getting on in years, yes I know, he gets injured these days, but still if Kobe was about winning he'd want Shaq there because now Kobe's lucky if he gets back to the championships. Kareem played all the way to 40 and towards the end there he hardly even ran down court half the time, but was still an essential part of the Lakers. Shaq, if he wants to play that long will do the same in his career.
2) He wanted Phil Jackson out. After publicly denying that and after publicly denying that he contacted Coach K from Duke, it later came out that indeed he'd called up Coach K to try to get him to come to the Lakers and that in fact he did want Jackson out.
Those two events alone make Kobe a selfish person to me. He wants to be the center of everything and this 81 point outburst, while completely amazing, just plays into what he wants to do as an INDIVIDUAL.
so i guess we'll see the Miami Heat winning a ring this year ?
i mean they're far more talented than the Lakers would be with Shaq....and they do have a Hall Of Fame coach
and they are in a terrible division
should be no problem for them....
i'm sayin' they have a much better roster than the Pistons and Spurs......
right?
No. I explained it. I dislike(d) him because when he first came in the league he was an 18 year old with this monstrous ego that really wasn't doing much of anything. Easy to dislike somebody with a huge ego that hasn't paid any dues whatsoever, right? Then after that, he attempted to downplay his ego and be a likable NBA star that says all the right things and all these cliches that he spit came across as incredibly insincere and painted him to be this dude with a huge ego who was trying to pretend he didn't have an ego, which made him even more unlikable. This is to say nothing of his shit-eating grin and the pompous way he carries himself on the court.
I didn't mean to argue that his privilege is most definitely what inspired him to act the way he does or to claim that I dislike(d) him because[/b] of that privilege. I was just attempting to map out an observation where he sort've acted like an over-priviliged kid who felt like he was not only the best, but was entitled to being the best. It was more me trying to understand Kobe than it was any sort of attack on who he is or where he came from.
So what if the general perception of kobe is that he is a prick?!!? What does that prove? A year ago, the general perception was that George W. Bush was doing a great job. At the time of the 2004 election, the general perception was that Saddam was linked to 9-11 and that we found weapons of mass destruction in Iraq!!
Not the same thing. I'm not talking about the uninformed general populus's opinion of Kobe (which is pretty much what we're talking about when we talk voting and politics), but I'm talking about well-informed basketball fans who dislike(d) Kobe for many of the similar reasons that I do.
Your opinion is your own, i'm not trying to force-feed you to like Kobe. I really don't care. My point is that your reasons for disliking him are suspect, and therefore, probably say more about you than him.
Of course my reasons say more about me than him, just like your reasons say more about you than they say about him. This is sports for christ's sake. We have subjective opinions of athletes based on how we perceive them and how they present themselves to us. I'm not claiming to have any access to Kobe's authentic soul. My point was and is that he has carried himself like a egomaniacal prick way before he was the All-Star he is. He's spent the rest of his career trying to win fans back by presenting himself as a humble, "good guy" type of dude and (until recently), I've found it insincere and corny.
I don't even know what I'm arguing anymore.
-e
Thank you for summarizing general public perception and how it's wrong in measuring the greatness and entertainment value of today's 2's and 3's.
no not yet.
No, because they have a bunch of mismatched players. I don't like Antoine Walker at all for example. On paper it might be more talented, but last year they had more balance and were an injury away from making the playoffs. This year their playoff bound but I don't think they have a chance to get to the Finals. Without Shaq, Miami made it to the 1st round of the playoffs and lost. With Shaq they lost in the Eastern Conference Championships if you want to talk about his impact overall on that team.
Kobe scores 81....
not bad but I know better results
Kobe and Shaq bothed loved Phil......but they both had seperate issues with his handling of the other
Kobe was upset that Phil never demanded Shaq play hard on defense and get in better physical shape....
Shaq was upset Phil never demanded Kobe stay within the offense
they both respected Phil and wanted to play for Phil ...but these were their issues with him
Kobe never had major issues playing with Shaq he just wanted credit for bailing him out of those big games over the years.....those big playoffs wins against Sac,S.A,Indiana and a few more over the years were because Kobe picked up the slack for Shaq's defensive and rebounding laziness....
the reason Kobe went completely out of the offense in the Detroit finals was because everyone on that team saw Shaq getting used on defense and not rebounding and Phil never challenged him about it ...so Kobe sayed fuck it...i'm just not going to give him the ball if he wont play D or rebound
Shaq was done with the lakers in pre-season when he embarassed Dr.Buss by cursing him..no way he was going to stay here after he pulled that B.S and he knew it ...which is why he went to the extreme and never got into shape or gave maximum effort.....
Phil wasn't returning if Shaq wasn't ...so they both made extreme salary demands basicaly knowing Buss wasn't having it.....
Kobe's reason for not wanting to initialy return was because he knew the entire sports world would blame him for breaking up the team.....and they do
What is Shaq's legacy going to be? Obviously, he is one of the most dominant big men ever, but he is also freakin' enormous, so i don't know what that really says about his basketball skills. Hakeem, Duncan & even Ewing could shoot circles around Shaq and while they didn't have the power Shaq does, they all had much better post moves (especially Hakeem!). People like to compare Shaq to Wilt, but although Wilt was just as bad from the free throw line as Shaq, he had more of an all around game. Chamberlain was a better passer (he actually led the league in assists one year!) and he was known for his fall-away jump shot. Shaq is a decent passer, but dude can't shoot from anywhere outside of 5 feet. Also, while Shaq is a huge presence in the middle, you don't hear people saying he is a great defensive player, like Hakeem and Bill Russell.
That said, I don't think anyone is saying that Kobe is a shitty talentless player. 81 with the way the league is set up (With the 3 seconds rule) is pretty amazing.
LISTEN THE FUCK UP.