hes just showing what this man that you guys are arguing for has done. if you dont wanna know the truth, then dont argue on the subject
No, son.
First of all, this goes for EVERYONE IN THIS COMMUNITY
You have to put up warnings before you post images that might freak people out...
AND...
images that might get people in trouble if they're posting from work.
Secondly I actually believe this conversation is not about the "injustice" of dude being on death row and more about the injustice and flaws of the death penalty itself.
???Killing a person to save the world, it???s not that we kill a person to benefit the world; killing oneself to save the world, it???s that one kills oneself to benefit the world.???
This seems to indicate that even in the extreme case in which we can save the world by sacrificing another???s life, we do so not merely on the grounds of the net benefit to the world, since adopting such grounds might suggest that we could routinely sacrifice others for the benefit of society in less extreme cases as well. Rather, we do so because of the massive discrepancy between the damage we inflict and that we prevent???the loss of a single life versus loss of the whole world. If the life to be given up is our own, on the other hand, the fragment seems to imply that we should make the sacrifice on the grounds of benefiting the world, though only if the consequences are suitably weighty.
hes just showing what this man that you guys are arguing for has done. if you dont wanna know the truth, then dont argue on the subject
we are not all arguing for this man. some of us are at work. some of us might be at home with kids in the room. some of us may not like to get the equivalent of a punch in the stomach while having a calm discussion. everyone else has made their point up to now without having to show a picture of a child with half her face blown off. we all said he should have WARNED us.
what's the truth Mack? what the fuck do you know about what anyone's truth here?
posting that picture without warning people is not acceptable, don't try to make it like it is.
and before you ask - yea i am mad. that was horrific.
hes just showing what this man that you guys are arguing for has done. if you dont wanna know the truth, then dont argue on the subject
we are not all arguing for this man. some of us are at work. some of us might be at home with kids in the room. some of us may not like to get the equivalent of a punch in the stomach while having a calm discussion. everyone else has made their point up to now without having to show a picture of a child with half her face blown off. we all said he should have WARNED us.
what's the truth Mack? what the fuck do you know about what anyone's truth here?
posting that picture without warning people is not acceptable, don't try to make it like it is.
and before you ask - yea i am mad. that was horrific.
yes it is horrific. very horrific. why should someone who could do this to another human being be allowed clemency from death?
hes just showing what this man that you guys are arguing for has done. if you dont wanna know the truth, then dont argue on the subject
we are not all arguing for this man. some of us are at work. some of us might be at home with kids in the room. some of us may not like to get the equivalent of a punch in the stomach while having a calm discussion. everyone else has made their point up to now without having to show a picture of a child with half her face blown off. we all said he should have WARNED us.
what's the truth Mack? what the fuck do you know about what anyone's truth here?
posting that picture without warning people is not acceptable, don't try to make it like it is.
and before you ask - yea i am mad. that was horrific.
yes it is horrific. very horrific. why should someone who could do this to another human being be allowed clemency from death?
Hey Rockadelic, you are entitled to your opinion but your jpeg made me nauseous. It's linked so if anyone really wants to peep a very disturbing pic can do so, but YOU ARE WARNED!!!! UGH. NSFW, very yucky.
Thanks. I hit Rockadelic with a PM letting him know it was inappropriate but he didn't respond or edit his post. Your swift action on that is appreciated, Mark.
Unfortunately that little stunt seems to have derailed our civilized discussion about the death penalty. Thanks a lot, you fucking jackass.
Last week there was a party in San Bernardino with over 300 people. A man who was there took a 4 year old girl to an alley nearby. They found her bloodied and bruised. He had beaten and raped her.
A FOUR YEAR OLD.
He should die.
The death penalty is a hard topic to discuss because despite the fact that killing is wrong and the justice system is flawed, some motherfuckers deserve to die.
I don't think Tookie should die personally, but then again, he did'nt kill my grandparents.
Who deserves to live or die for their crimes and what crimes deserve the death penalty?
Like I said, it's a touchy subject.
I'm with you on this one. It should be fairly obvious when an act of violence is heinous enough to merit the Death Penalty. I don't think that murder alone is enough to justify it; proven serial-rapist-killers and child-sex murderers are beyond morally ambiguous boundaries. This is not a self-defense homicide. These severe cases are also fairly rare, despite the ubiquitous/ridiculous Law & Order shows and media hype to the contrary.
There is a difference between murder and justice. This is important to realize. I don't think that the Death Penalty stands as a deterrent as much as it stands for a Society's ultimate stand about people that are beyond all bounds of empathy, decency, and humanity.
But all this is taking for granted indisputable evidence, a fair trial, and the opinion of the jury/judge. And those are huge ifs.
I'm against the death penalty - but at the same time - what IS a deterrent to killing. If there was no death penalty do any of you think that a worse situation would be if people knew worst they would get is life in prison?
THOSE OF US FROM LA KNOW THAT THE LAPD WAS TOTALLY CORRUPT AT THE TIME OF THE MANS CONVICTION. THIS IS WELL DOCUMENTED FACT.
MANY A BLACK MANS ASSUMED GULIT ON DEATH ROW IS SUSPECT.
I HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE OF WILLIAMS GUILT OR INNOCENCE ONLY OF THE METHODS OF POLICE INVESTIGATIONS AND THE NEED FOR CRIMINALIZATION.
This is all true. I'm not aware of the particulars in Mr. Williams' case (I'm not a jury member), but these are all genuine reasons to question his sentence. I didn't think that it was much of a question the he started the Crips and ordered rivals killed, though.
IT DOES NOTHING TO BRING BACK DEAD PEOPLE OR STOP VIOLENT CRIME.
You're right. But neither, apparently, does imprisonment. But hey: I can guarantee that the Qur'an's punishment for thievery would raise a few teenage eyebrows, though (although I consider it inhumane).
THOSE OF US FROM LA KNOW THAT THE LAPD WAS TOTALLY CORRUPT AT THE TIME OF THE MANS CONVICTION. THIS IS WELL DOCUMENTED FACT.
MANY A BLACK MANS ASSUMED GULIT ON DEATH ROW IS SUSPECT.
I HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE OF WILLIAMS GUILT OR INNOCENCE ONLY OF THE METHODS OF POLICE INVESTIGATIONS AND THE NEED FOR CRIMINALIZATION.
I AM TOTALLY AGAINST THE DEATH PENALTY. IT DOES NOTHING TO BRING BACK DEAD PEOPLE OR STOP VIOLENT CRIME.
YOU LOVE IT WHEN I TYPE IN CAPS.
AP
'em the fuck up!
mos defintly not the kinda fuel that gonna make LA Riots pt III happen. I remember the Rodney King trial well and that was a whole different time, media attention was crazy on that case and not only that but the coup de gracie was the footage of the assault.
This has not received the media coverage nor does it havet he same galvanizing vibe RK v LAPD had.
My two cents on the whole deal:
If a mans life is not worth living than why should he remain alive?
If a man has something to give the community it would be a shame to not allow him to do so.
I had to run out and just got back to see the firestorm I created.....
I apologize sincerely if anyone was offended and lesson learned.
My intended point was that what this man did WAS disgusting and inhuman.
In my world a man who puts a gun to the face of a young girl and pulls the trigger, a young girl who could not have harmed this man nor stopped him from his intended crime, forfeits his right to live.
And in a way I'm glad you were disgusted by the photo...I certainly was.
25 years of appeals takes away the face of the victim and allows the criminal to face a society that doesn't even remember his crimes.
I stand up for the victim, not the criminal....it's what my human instinct has taught me.
Again, I apologize and will not cross this line again.
Dude you have to put up warnings before you post images that might freak people out...
AND...
images that might get people in trouble if they're posting from work.
Like the TOPIC now should have a NSFW title because of that.
Dude...I get the point and won't do it again....BUT....seriously, this would get someone fired or offend their family/kids but the X-Rated stuff posted here won't???
Dude you have to put up warnings before you post images that might freak people out...
AND...
images that might get people in trouble if they're posting from work.
Like the TOPIC now should have a NSFW title because of that.
Dude...I get the point and won't do it again....BUT....seriously, this would get someone fired or offend their family/kids but the X-Rated stuff posted here won't???
Neither is good for work. Stop that shit. End of discussion.
I'm so on the fence with things. For example, anyone in Canada knows all about karla homolka. She took part in the deaths and rape of alot of young gurls (Including her own sister). She got 12 years in a pretty easy and lax prison and she's now out after 12 years. This is very sad to me.
People kill all sorts of beings, billions a year, for a variety of reasons. I don't see anyone crying about it. The value placed on human life by humans is so contradictory.
imo: i say he should be put to death. the victims didn't get a second chance, so neither should he. i could give a rat's ass whether he turned his life around or not. peace, pres.
So would I. But our society should be held to a higher standard than we hold ourselves to as individuals.
this might be an over simplification, but is this another form of follow what i say not what i do? in my opinion this does not work. i believe the exact opposite. we have to hold ourselves to a higher standard than those around us and our society in general.
let me use myself as an example. sorry this is somewhat off topic but i think proves my point. 12 years ago i started reading books like diet for a new america and peter singer???s animal rights. soon after i started telling people about all of the problems with the meat industry, how it is just as immoral for the farms to kill the animal as it would be for a human, and how the meat we eat at fast food restaurants is full of disease and anti-bodies. yet i still continued to eat meat. part of me justified by the usual, ???one person is not going to make a difference??? other parts of me justified it by saying ???i had been brought up on meat and it would be up to my children to stop??? or ???once i finish school and can afford to buy better food i would stop eating meat???. flash forward 6 months and i realized that i am living the life of a hypocrite. how could i expect society to raise themselves to a higher level if i couldn???t bring myself to that level.
i???m far from perfect and still have a loooooooooooooooooong way to go, but i feel i would be letting myself down if i were not one step ahead of society. we can???t change the world with words or expectations. it is only by our own actions.
so as alieniverson has said before
get on my level
but i will be trying to jump to the next one before you get to this one.
i think the question for us becomes, if we are against the death penalty, what is a viable alternative as a punishment for a heinous crime? when we were kids a timeout might have sufficed. if somebody fucks up they don???t get to participate in the society any longer. that keeps the rest of us safe after the crime has been committed. however this doesn???t work to prevent crime. but really if the death penalty isn???t a deterrent can there be one?
Comments
No, son.
First of all, this goes for EVERYONE IN THIS COMMUNITY
Secondly I actually believe this conversation is not about the "injustice" of dude being on death row and more about the injustice and flaws of the death penalty itself.
This seems to indicate that even in the extreme case in which we can save the world by sacrificing another???s life, we do so not merely on the grounds of the net benefit to the world, since adopting such grounds might suggest that we could routinely sacrifice others for the benefit of society in less extreme cases as well. Rather, we do so because of the massive discrepancy between the damage we inflict and that we prevent???the loss of a single life versus loss of the whole world. If the life to be given up is our own, on the other hand, the fragment seems to imply that we should make the sacrifice on the grounds of benefiting the world, though only if the consequences are suitably weighty.
we are not all arguing for this man. some of us are at work. some of us might be at home with kids in the room. some of us may not like to get the equivalent of a punch in the stomach while having a calm discussion. everyone else has made their point up to now without having to show a picture of a child with half her face blown off. we all said he should have WARNED us.
what's the truth Mack? what the fuck do you know about what anyone's truth here?
posting that picture without warning people is not acceptable, don't try to make it like it is.
and before you ask - yea i am mad. that was horrific.
yes it is horrific. very horrific. why should someone who could do this to another human being be allowed clemency from death?
Dude, just stop.
Does that go for our brothers and sisters in the Military as well? Sorry, it's so hard not to be sarcastic. Bad taza.
Unfortunately that little stunt seems to have derailed our civilized discussion about the death penalty. Thanks a lot, you fucking jackass.
I'm with you on this one. It should be fairly obvious when an act of violence is heinous enough to merit the Death Penalty. I don't think that murder alone is enough to justify it; proven serial-rapist-killers and child-sex murderers are beyond morally ambiguous boundaries. This is not a self-defense homicide. These severe cases are also fairly rare, despite the ubiquitous/ridiculous Law & Order shows and media hype to the contrary.
There is a difference between murder and justice. This is important to realize. I don't think that the Death Penalty stands as a deterrent as much as it stands for a Society's ultimate stand about people that are beyond all bounds of empathy, decency, and humanity.
But all this is taking for granted indisputable evidence, a fair trial, and the opinion of the jury/judge. And those are huge ifs.
Thank god that I didn't see that pic.
COMMENT ON IT FROM VT.
COMMENT ON TOOKIES GUILT FROM TEXAS.
THOSE OF US FROM LA KNOW THAT THE LAPD WAS TOTALLY CORRUPT AT THE TIME OF THE MANS CONVICTION. THIS IS WELL DOCUMENTED FACT.
MANY A BLACK MANS ASSUMED GULIT ON DEATH ROW IS SUSPECT.
I HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE OF WILLIAMS GUILT OR INNOCENCE ONLY OF THE METHODS OF POLICE INVESTIGATIONS AND THE NEED FOR CRIMINALIZATION.
I AM TOTALLY AGAINST THE DEATH PENALTY. IT DOES NOTHING TO BRING BACK DEAD PEOPLE OR STOP VIOLENT CRIME.
YOU LOVE IT WHEN I TYPE IN CAPS.
AP
ok I'm pro abortion and I'm pro death penalty. fuck em' I don't care if that guy turned his life around. There's a lot of dead people who can't....
Do you mean to say that you're pro choice?
I'm against the death penalty - but at the same time - what IS a deterrent to killing. If there was no death penalty do any of you think that a worse situation would be if people knew worst they would get is life in prison?
yea
This is all true. I'm not aware of the particulars in Mr. Williams' case (I'm not a jury member), but these are all genuine reasons to question his sentence. I didn't think that it was much of a question the he started the Crips and ordered rivals killed, though.
You're right. But neither, apparently, does imprisonment.
But hey: I can guarantee that the Qur'an's punishment for thievery would raise a few teenage eyebrows, though (although I consider it inhumane).
Yes, I do. Hurt me with your 15-point shit.
mos defintly not the kinda fuel that gonna make LA Riots pt III happen. I remember the Rodney King trial well and that was a whole different time, media attention was crazy on that case and not only that but the coup de gracie was the footage of the assault.
This has not received the media coverage nor does it havet he same galvanizing vibe RK v LAPD had.
My two cents on the whole deal:
If a mans life is not worth living than why should he remain alive?
If a man has something to give the community it would be a shame to not allow him to do so.
I apologize sincerely if anyone was offended and lesson learned.
My intended point was that what this man did WAS disgusting and inhuman.
In my world a man who puts a gun to the face of a young girl and pulls the trigger, a young girl who could not have harmed this man nor stopped him from his intended crime, forfeits his right to live.
And in a way I'm glad you were disgusted by the photo...I certainly was.
25 years of appeals takes away the face of the victim and allows the criminal to face a society that doesn't even remember his crimes.
I stand up for the victim, not the criminal....it's what my human instinct has taught me.
Again, I apologize and will not cross this line again.
Sincerely,
Rich/Rockadelic
Dude...I get the point and won't do it again....BUT....seriously, this would get someone fired or offend their family/kids but the X-Rated stuff posted here won't???
Neither is good for work. Stop that shit. End of discussion.
definitely not him. He needs to come back on the "curb"
People kill all sorts of beings, billions a year, for a variety of reasons. I don't see anyone crying about it. The value placed on human life by humans is so contradictory.
imo: i say he should be put to death. the victims didn't get a second chance, so neither should he. i could give a rat's ass whether he turned his life around or not. peace, pres.
saw it.
this might be an over simplification, but is this another form of follow what i say not what i do? in my opinion this does not work. i believe the exact opposite. we have to hold ourselves to a higher standard than those around us and our society in general.
let me use myself as an example. sorry this is somewhat off topic but i think proves my point. 12 years ago i started reading books like diet for a new america and peter singer???s animal rights. soon after i started telling people about all of the problems with the meat industry, how it is just as immoral for the farms to kill the animal as it would be for a human, and how the meat we eat at fast food restaurants is full of disease and anti-bodies. yet i still continued to eat meat. part of me justified by the usual, ???one person is not going to make a difference??? other parts of me justified it by saying ???i had been brought up on meat and it would be up to my children to stop??? or ???once i finish school and can afford to buy better food i would stop eating meat???. flash forward 6 months and i realized that i am living the life of a hypocrite. how could i expect society to raise themselves to a higher level if i couldn???t bring myself to that level.
i???m far from perfect and still have a loooooooooooooooooong way to go, but i feel i would be letting myself down if i were not one step ahead of society. we can???t change the world with words or expectations. it is only by our own actions.
so as alieniverson has said before
but i will be trying to jump to the next one before you get to this one.
i think the question for us becomes, if we are against the death penalty, what is a viable alternative as a punishment for a heinous crime? when we were kids a timeout might have sufficed. if somebody fucks up they don???t get to participate in the society any longer. that keeps the rest of us safe after the crime has been committed. however this doesn???t work to prevent crime. but really if the death penalty isn???t a deterrent can there be one?