I hear you...but at some point, in order to move forward, you have to look at things being black and white.....
Watch this hypocrasy...
How many of you would support giving George W. Bush the Death Penalty??
I'm gonna drink a shot of JD for every yes answer......GO!!
I would not support anyone being given the death penalty. Not George Bush, not Adolf Hitler, nobody. I do not believe in it. I believe it is way to fractured of a system to work properly, and I think that the impetus behind it as well is backwards logic.
I'm so on the fence with things. For example, anyone in Canada knows all about karla homolka. She took part in the deaths and rape of alot of young gurls (Including her own sister). She got 12 years in a pretty easy and lax prison and she's now out after 12 years. This is very sad to me.
Yes I know of her. It was her and her husband, correct?
I honestly do not know anything about the Canadian prison system so I can't answer that.
I'm so on the fence with things. For example, anyone in Canada knows all about karla homolka. She took part in the deaths and rape of alot of young gurls (Including her own sister). She got 12 years in a pretty easy and lax prison and she's now out after 12 years. This is very sad to me.
Yes I know of her. It was her and her husband, correct?
I honestly do not know anything about the Canadian prison system so I can't answer that.
Yeah, her and her husband. She made a deal to be a witness against him. He's in for life.
I hear you...but at some point, in order to move forward, you have to look at things being black and white.....
Watch this hypocrasy...
How many of you would support giving George W. Bush the Death Penalty??
I'm gonna drink a shot of JD for every yes answer......GO!!
I would not support anyone being given the death penalty. Not George Bush, not Adolf Hitler, nobody. I do not believe in it. I believe it is way to fractured of a system to work properly, and I think that the impetus behind it as well is backwards logic.
On one hand I totally agree with you. No man has the right to take another man's life. The whole premise of killing people for killing is utter hipocrosy.
However,
If someone did something horrific to someone in my family I would probably want them dead. Maybe they should just let family members exact their own punishment.
I hear you...but at some point, in order to move forward, you have to look at things being black and white.....
Watch this hypocrasy...
How many of you would support giving George W. Bush the Death Penalty??
I'm gonna drink a shot of JD for every yes answer......GO!!
I would not support anyone being given the death penalty. Not George Bush, not Adolf Hitler, nobody. I do not believe in it. I believe it is way to fractured of a system to work properly, and I think that the impetus behind it as well is backwards logic.
On one hand I totally agree with you. No man has the right to take another man's life. The whole premise of killing people for killing is utter hipocrosy.
However,
If someone did something horrific to someone in my family I would probably want them dead.
Maybe they should just let family members exact their own punishment.
To me that's flawed as well, and this is why. Trust me, I have the worst temper in the world. If anyone did anything to harm my loved ones I would probably kill them, and I can say this to you with total conviction. And I can say this to you truthfully. However I understand that, even if thsi were to happen and I did kill them, I also know that it is not my right to have killed them and that I would deserve to face the proper punishment for doing what I had done.
I am against the death penalty just for the simple fact that human judgement isnt infalliable...just the chance that an innocent person can be executed is reason enough to not execute anyone...in fact dozens of people have been found innocent posthumously, a scary and disgusting revelation. It is just a shame it is scumbags like this guy that end up being the poster boys for the anti-death penalty movement.
BTW I believe in the right to kill in self defense or in the defense of others. I don't like it but I'm morally OK with it. That's different from capital punishment. There is no self defense there.
Not that I feel as though this play should act as weight in this discussion, but if anyone ever gets a chance to see the shoe "The Exonerated" please do it. It's amazing. It ran in NY about 2 years ago, and I don't know about it now but it's really hard as hell.
I hear you...but at some point, in order to move forward, you have to look at things being black and white.....
Watch this hypocrasy...
How many of you would support giving George W. Bush the Death Penalty??
I'm gonna drink a shot of JD for every yes answer......GO!!
I would not support anyone being given the death penalty. Not George Bush, not Adolf Hitler, nobody. I do not believe in it. I believe it is way to fractured of a system to work properly, and I think that the impetus behind it as well is backwards logic.
On one hand I totally agree with you. No man has the right to take another man's life. The whole premise of killing people for killing is utter hipocrosy.
However,
If someone did something horrific to someone in my family I would probably want them dead.
So would I. But our society should be held to a higher standard than we hold ourselves to as individuals.
The question really isn't whether or not some people deserve to die--I think we all agree that certain people do--but whether or not any of us wants to live in a society that has institutionalized premeditatedly killing its own citizens. I definitely don't.
I hear you...but at some point, in order to move forward, you have to look at things being black and white.....
Watch this hypocrasy...
How many of you would support giving George W. Bush the Death Penalty??
I'm gonna drink a shot of JD for every yes answer......GO!!
I would not support anyone being given the death penalty. Not George Bush, not Adolf Hitler, nobody. I do not believe in it. I believe it is way to fractured of a system to work properly, and I think that the impetus behind it as well is backwards logic.
On one hand I totally agree with you. No man has the right to take another man's life. The whole premise of killing people for killing is utter hipocrosy.
However,
If someone did something horrific to someone in my family I would probably want them dead.
So would I. But our society should be held to a higher standard than we hold ourselves to as individuals.
The question really isn't whether or not some people deserve to die--I think we all agree that certain people do--but whether or not any of us wants to live in a society that has institutionalized premeditatedly killing its own citizens. I definitely don't.
Thank you for allowing your great legal mind to put it in a way that frames what I am trying to say. Me MUST hold society up to a higher standard than we do ourselves. It will be our only salvation, or in a way, one of the torches that lights the pathway to our salvation as a society as a whole.
Maybe they should just let family members exact their own punishment.
i agree with this line of thinking, but not completely as some (most?) would probably kill the person and that???s just local punishment opposed to capital punishment. guilty charges are not always correct.
i think victims??? and victims??? families' impact statements should be a regular part of sentencing ??? are they already in some places or is it up to the individual judge/crown/DA?
If someone did something horrific to someone in my family I would probably want them dead.
This is totally natural, and anyone who wouldn't say the same thing is a liar, IMO.
However, that's why we have a justice system...the families of a victim is NOT objective, they are angry. They may act out of anger and haste, and may not have all the facts. The system is not supposed to be angry at the criminal, nor sorry for victims. It is intended to be as objective as possible, and hand down sentences based on the crime committed, and hopefully fascilitate a thorough investigation into WHO committed the crime beyond a reasonable doubt.
That said, how it is SUPPOSED to be is rarely how it is.
Prison for life... Is that anymore "humane"? It seems like it borders almost close to the same level of punishment.
For the record I do not believe in life sentences either. I also do not believe that there should be any prison system that deals with sentencing as punishment and does not include rehabilitation. Which is pretty much exactly what the US prison system is, which is why I say fuck the prison system.
I hear you...but at some point, in order to move forward, you have to look at things being black and white.....
Watch this hypocrasy...
How many of you would support giving George W. Bush the Death Penalty??
I'm gonna drink a shot of JD for every yes answer......GO!!
I would not support anyone being given the death penalty. Not George Bush, not Adolf Hitler, nobody. I do not believe in it. I believe it is way to fractured of a system to work properly, and I think that the impetus behind it as well is backwards logic.
On one hand I totally agree with you. No man has the right to take another man's life. The whole premise of killing people for killing is utter hipocrosy.
However,
If someone did something horrific to someone in my family I would probably want them dead.
So would I. But our society should be held to a higher standard than we hold ourselves to as individuals.
The question really isn't whether or not some people deserve to die--I think we all agree that certain people do--but whether or not any of us wants to live in a society that has institutionalized premeditatedly killing its own citizens. I definitely don't.
Thank you for allowing your great legal mind to put it in a way that frames what I am trying to say. Me MUST hold society up to a higher standard than we do ourselves. It will be our only salvation, or in a way, one of the torches that lights the pathway to our salvation as a society as a whole.
Absolutely. My "catch 22" post was orginally going to talk about how we need laws to govern us, without them killing would be the least of our worries, etc. But you said it more concise than I would have. I think we're all on the same page on this. I don't trust the state to decide the fate (so this jam I dedicate) when it comes to the death penalty. But how do you deal with irrefutable (sp?) evidence of a crime that to most sane people would warrant death? There has to be some kind of standard for it or it needs to be abolished completely. And then what? Life without parole where fools can watch TV, jack off while reliving their memories of rape and torture, work out and eat 3 squares a day while we pay for it?
I'm conflicted about this issue because each case is different and needs to be weighed as such. The world would be a better place without certain individuals living, as for who should decide that? I don't know.
it's hard to balance punishment, rehabilitation, prevention, the protection of society, revenge and being humane. perhaps we are trying to do too much all at once. and things are not fine-tuned enough to look at and treat each crime individually. i don't know what the answers are.
Prison for life... Is that anymore "humane"? It seems like it borders almost close to the same level of punishment.
For the record I do not believe in life sentences either. I also do not believe that there should be any prison system that deals with sentencing as punishment and does not include rehabilitation. Which is pretty much exactly what the US prison system is, which is why I say fuck the prison system.
Again, I agree, but there have been plenty of studies that have showed some sex offenders/pedophiles are beyond rehabilitation. Would you want a dude who raped 20 kids living next door to you and your family, or locked away from society so no one ever has to live through that?
Then again, some people can be helped, have gone through prison and went on to be an asset to their community.
Prison for life... Is that anymore "humane"? It seems like it borders almost close to the same level of punishment.
For the record I do not believe in life sentences either. I also do not believe that there should be any prison system that deals with sentencing as punishment and does not include rehabilitation. Which is pretty much exactly what the US prison system is, which is why I say fuck the prison system.
Rehabilitation? I really believe that a good portion of offenders are past that. Not saying that people need to die. Just, come on... I don't think alot of child rapist and killers can be rehabilitated.
Another thing that kinda gets me pissed off. Just last week, 2 guys went into a car dealership to dispute a lease/forfit. Dude they were looking for wasn't even working and they ended up killing someone at the dealership they were arguing with. Turns out one of the guys was out on bail from a gun related charge a month earlier. This is in Canada, where the legal system is getting pretty damn weak. If I was dudes family, I would be ready to take out some street justice of my own.
Yeah I know that many people are BEYOND rehab. It's a fucked up thing. Where is the standards that can be set? Is it mutable? What is the impact?
For instance, I actually believe that sentencing teenagers and children to death/lengthy prison sentences is completely unjustifiable, no matter what the offense is. I feel this way because of many reasons, some being my faith in youth, some being my conviction that rehabilitation at an early age is possible and does work, my belief in the power of compassion, and the scientific data on the development of the human brain especially in those pivotal years of adolescence.
Ok, time to wrap it up here the jay oh bee. Good conversation everyone.
I know, I was oversimplifying. What I meant is there should be a middle ground for people who are mentally ill, that's all. But even that is oversimplified, I mean what makes a prison THAT different from a mental institution, besides the sane criminals?
Comments
I would not support anyone being given the death penalty. Not George Bush, not Adolf Hitler, nobody. I do not believe in it. I believe it is way to fractured of a system to work properly, and I think that the impetus behind it as well is backwards logic.
Yes I know of her. It was her and her husband, correct?
I honestly do not know anything about the Canadian prison system so I can't answer that.
Yeah, her and her husband. She made a deal to be a witness against him. He's in for life.
On one hand I totally agree with you. No man has the right to take another man's life. The whole premise of killing people for killing is utter hipocrosy.
However,
If someone did something horrific to someone in my family I would probably want them dead.
Maybe they should just let family members exact their own punishment.
I think you are insulting our collective intelligence here. I'm with AlienIVERSON on this one.
To me that's flawed as well, and this is why. Trust me, I have the worst temper in the world. If anyone did anything to harm my loved ones I would probably kill them, and I can say this to you with total conviction. And I can say this to you truthfully. However I understand that, even if thsi were to happen and I did kill them, I also know that it is not my right to have killed them and that I would deserve to face the proper punishment for doing what I had done.
And so therein lies the problem to me.
Where's the "real talk" graemlin?
http://www.45bleecker.com/exonerated.html
So would I. But our society should be held to a higher standard than we hold ourselves to as individuals.
The question really isn't whether or not some people deserve to die--I think we all agree that certain people do--but whether or not any of us wants to live in a society that has institutionalized premeditatedly killing its own citizens. I definitely don't.
Thank you for allowing your great legal mind to put it in a way that frames what I am trying to say. Me MUST hold society up to a higher standard than we do ourselves. It will be our only salvation, or in a way, one of the torches that lights the pathway to our salvation as a society as a whole.
i agree with this line of thinking, but not completely as some (most?) would probably kill the person and that???s just local punishment opposed to capital punishment. guilty charges are not always correct.
i think victims??? and victims??? families' impact statements should be a regular part of sentencing ??? are they already in some places or is it up to the individual judge/crown/DA?
This is totally natural, and anyone who wouldn't say the same thing is a liar, IMO.
However, that's why we have a justice system...the families of a victim is NOT objective, they are angry. They may act out of anger and haste, and may not have all the facts. The system is not supposed to be angry at the criminal, nor sorry for victims. It is intended to be as objective as possible, and hand down sentences based on the crime committed, and hopefully fascilitate a thorough investigation into WHO committed the crime beyond a reasonable doubt.
That said, how it is SUPPOSED to be is rarely how it is.
For the record I do not believe in life sentences either. I also do not believe that there should be any prison system that deals with sentencing as punishment and does not include rehabilitation. Which is pretty much exactly what the US prison system is, which is why I say fuck the prison system.
Absolutely. My "catch 22" post was orginally going to talk about how we need laws to govern us, without them killing would be the least of our worries, etc.
But you said it more concise than I would have. I think we're all on the same page on this.
I don't trust the state to decide the fate (so this jam I dedicate) when it comes to the death penalty. But how do you deal with irrefutable (sp?) evidence of a crime that to most sane people would warrant death? There has to be some kind of standard for it or it needs to be abolished completely. And then what? Life without parole where fools can watch TV, jack off while reliving their memories of rape and torture, work out and eat 3 squares a day while we pay for it?
I'm conflicted about this issue because each case is different and needs to be weighed as such.
The world would be a better place without certain individuals living, as for who should decide that? I don't know.
Again, I agree, but there have been plenty of studies that have showed some sex offenders/pedophiles are beyond rehabilitation.
Would you want a dude who raped 20 kids living next door to you and your family, or locked away from society so no one ever has to live through that?
Then again, some people can be helped, have gone through prison and went on to be an asset to their community.
I don't have an answer to these problems.
Rehabilitation? I really believe that a good portion of offenders are past that. Not saying that people need to die. Just, come on... I don't think alot of child rapist and killers can be rehabilitated.
Another thing that kinda gets me pissed off. Just last week, 2 guys went into a car dealership to dispute a lease/forfit. Dude they were looking for wasn't even working and they ended up killing someone at the dealership they were arguing with. Turns out one of the guys was out on bail from a gun related charge a month earlier. This is in Canada, where the legal system is getting pretty damn weak. If I was dudes family, I would be ready to take out some street justice of my own.
I wish it was that simple.
Ok, time to wrap it up here the jay oh bee. Good conversation everyone.
For instance, I actually believe that sentencing teenagers and children to death/lengthy prison sentences is completely unjustifiable, no matter what the offense is. I feel this way because of many reasons, some being my faith in youth, some being my conviction that rehabilitation at an early age is possible and does work, my belief in the power of compassion, and the scientific data on the development of the human brain especially in those pivotal years of adolescence.
I know, I was oversimplifying. What I meant is there should be a middle ground for people who are mentally ill, that's all. But even that is oversimplified, I mean what makes a prison THAT different from a mental institution, besides the sane criminals?
OK, i'm out too. Laterz
But then again....she's not MY little sister so fuck it..
He should have been killed 24 years ago...
One year of appeals and that's it.....adios mofo
Edit Reason: No offense rockadelic, but your JPEG is too graphic for the 'Strut, sorry. I think I just threw up a little.
If anyone wants to see a graphic jpeg of someone with part of their head missing, click here: http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c218/Rockadelic1234/tookievictim3adweb.jpg
Dude you have to put up warnings before you post images that might freak people out...
AND...
images that might get people in trouble if they're posting from work.
Like the TOPIC now should have a NSFW title because of that.