I can totally relate with the player's sudden "WTF?" reaction to it. If you're allowed certain freedoms, and then your employer tries to take them away for no good reason[/b], I think it's completely natural to be like "Fuck that!" whether you make $2 an hour or $20,000 an hour.
It's worth noting that for all the bitching some players are doing, the Players Organization did pretty much no pushback against this when it was brought up during the negotiations over the summer.
The dress code is just another way of trying to "de-thug" the NBA and if you don't think race is at the heart of this, you're being willfully ignorant. I don't have a problem with the dress code insofar as I think dressing professionally is something professionals do. It just bothers me that people are so quick to make excuses and deflect the mere suggestion that race has anything to do with things like this.
On the same coin, don't you think it kind of cheapens the very serious charge of racism when you apply it to something as ultimately trivial as a dress code?
Yeah, that's right and those are my Black Tiger Brothers!!!!! So you already now how I roll. And Chan I'm a have to give you a big "Hilltop OG" shout out on that tip.
I guess it's like the word you say "authority", basically comes from the word "author", now when you submit to someone as the author to your reality that's a tad bit messed up.
What? Dude, until you actually start making sense I'm not going to reply to any of your posts.
As usual, the white supremamcist apologists on the Strut are out in full force. I swear to god, half of you probably think lynching was just a bad accident involving a tree and rope.
yeah...those are comparable situations. sheesh.
and clearly anyone that thinks making professionals dress professionally isn't "racist" is a "white supremacist apologist". Good call.
My view is simply that these are teams. I don't claim to know anything about the NBA, but I do know something about being on a sports team. There was a dress code on a hockey team I was on when I was 10 years old. I played Junior B with some of the poorest, most redneck hillbilly people I have ever met and they wore a shirt and tie to every game. Why? Many reasons. The first and foremost was to show that we we're not individuals but equal members of a team. Of course I believe these rules should be enforced by coaches. Forget basketball for a second and look at other athletes.
Once again, this is a game. People play games to escape reality by entering a world with defined rules. There are many personal liberties given up when becomming an athlete, choosing what you wear on game day is one of them.
My view is simply that these are teams. I don't claim to know anything about the NBA, but I do know something about being on a sports team. There was a dress code on a hockey team I was on when I was 10 years old. I played Junior B with some of the poorest, most redneck hillbilly people I have ever met and they wore a shirt and tie to every game. Why? Many reasons. The first and foremost was to show that we we're not individuals but equal members of a team. Of course I believe these rules should be enforced by coaches. Forget basketball for a second and look at other athletes.
Once again, this is a game. People play games to escape reality by entering a world with defined rules. There are many personal liberties given up when becomming an athlete, choosing what you wear on game day is one of them.
and again, why did no one care when the coaches were forced to wear suits?
As usual, the white supremamcist apologists on the Strut are out in full force. I swear to god, half of you probably think lynching was just a bad accident involving a tree and rope.
Wanna talk about apologists? People call racism when someone says a basketball player should wear a suit, but when a dude like Archaic spouts REAL bullshit, there's a warm & fuzzy post about how he should be unbanned. It make me sad to think that racism against certain groups is acceptable thing here. This isn't directed against O-Dub at all - I'm just quoting his post about "apologists on the Strut".
As usual, the white supremamcist apologists on the Strut are out in full force. I swear to god, half of you probably think lynching was just a bad accident involving a tree and rope.
"Nope, no racism anywhere."
Frankly, in the big scheme of things, the dress code isn't on the same level as, you know, apartheid or anything. But it's so fucking transparent that this is aprt of the attempt of the NBA to reform its image, make it less "street" (read: black) or less "hip hop" (definite ly read: black) because people like Stern feel like today's NBA is alienating white viewers. I mean, this stuff has been EXPLICTLY SAID, it's not backroom whispers. As far as a lot of cats are concerned, the NBA has an image problem and for better or for worse, it's players like Ron Artest who've become the posterchildren for that "problem."
The dress code is just another way of trying to "de-thug" the NBA and if you don't think race is at the heart of this, you're being willfully ignorant. I don't have a problem with the dress code insofar as I think dressing professionally is something professionals do. It just bothers me that people are so quick to make excuses and deflect the mere suggestion that race has anything to do with things like this.
there's no need to accuse anyone of anything because of this issue. the NBA is a business, the players and coaches are all EMPLOYEES first and foremost, and if their employer asks them to uphold (what i perceive to be perfectly reasonable) requirements for work, so be it. i'm lucky that i can wear my jeans and nikes to work, but if i show up monday and they say it's changed, that it's business casual now, i'm not in a position to complain or ask questions.
if i'm not mistaken, george steinbrenner has his own requirements (against facial hair, etc.), and many teams enforce their own dress codes. and the classiest players over the years, ie. hakeem and jordan, were always overdressed. in fact, stevie francis says that dream got all over his case for dressing like a teenager during press conferences, and to this day you'll see lil stevie wearing suits when he probably doesn't need to.
i think a bigger issue here is that the players themselves are commodities, so there's a sense of entitlement there - what they wear before and after games doesn't dictate how they play in uniform. my father is a musician who also happens to be a tenured professor, so he's got the same 'commoditized' employment circumstances going on, but of course the university enforces the same minimal requirements that the NBA is implementing. he could always go tell them to go fuck themselves, that he's there to fill a role that very few people on the planet can, and that if his attire is an issue it's missing the forest for the trees. and in my profession (i'm a bond trader), what i wear to work has no bearing on my performance, and if i'm putting up numbers nobody is going to bother me. but like i said, if it were the case that i had to uphold a certain standard and i wasn't willing to ... well i think that's a little self-important and babyish.
look, i'm passionate about the NBA, but i have to admit that the players have gotten worse about their demands. case in point: antonio davis gets traded to the knicks and pitches a fit because he's going to have to relocate his family from chicago to new york. dude makes $14 million a year - how does it come off to the guy stuck working for pitney bowes, making $35k a year, hearing that type of shit? and of course latrell sprewell's "i've got a family to feed" moment sort of takes the cake. marcus camby actually asked for a stipend from the league to buy clothes. dude makes $10 million per. let's be realistic here.
i'm not defending the league's motives, and i actually cringe at the fact they singled out certain things (chains, headphones, etc.), but i think it's well within reason to ask the players to maintain a certain level of professionalism when presenting themselves at NBA-sponsored events. it's easy to frame it in the context of david stern wanting to make the league more attractive to white viewers, but until anyone presents any evidence showing that the NBA is having trouble with its white audience i'm just not buying it.
As usual, the white supremamcist apologists on the Strut are out in full force. I swear to god, half of you probably think lynching was just a bad accident involving a tree and rope.
"Nope, no racism anywhere."
Frankly, in the big scheme of things, the dress code isn't on the same level as, you know, apartheid or anything. But it's so fucking transparent that this is aprt of the attempt of the NBA to reform its image, make it less "street" (read: black) or less "hip hop" (definite ly read: black) because people like Stern feel like today's NBA is alienating white viewers. I mean, this stuff has been EXPLICTLY SAID, it's not backroom whispers. As far as a lot of cats are concerned, the NBA has an image problem and for better or for worse, it's players like Ron Artest who've become the posterchildren for that "problem."
The dress code is just another way of trying to "de-thug" the NBA and if you don't think race is at the heart of this, you're being willfully ignorant. I don't have a problem with the dress code insofar as I think dressing professionally is something professionals do. It just bothers me that people are so quick to make excuses and deflect the mere suggestion that race has anything to do with things like this.
I completely agree (surprise!).
People in this thread seem to be having trouble distinguishing between two very different things: 1) whether or not the decision was racially motivated, and 2) what the scale of the resulting injustice is.
One can acknowledge the former without implicitly equating the consequences with, say, recent events in New Orleans.
As usual, the white supremamcist apologists on the Strut are out in full force. I swear to god, half of you probably think lynching was just a bad accident involving a tree and rope.
what they wear before and after games doesn't dictate how they play in uniform
Yeah, but it does affect how these same motherfuckers have been marketing them for years.
The resurgence of the NBA has a whole lot to do with the streetball shit, the hip-hop generation, new styles, techniques, in-your-face play or whatever... it isn't just the players benefitting from this... and it's not just street kids who love this, it's lil dudes in the suburbs who have never seen anyone, outside of maybe their uncle with the hairy chestsweater and the wide open collar, rocking a chain outside their shirt. All buy into it and all are the reason that basketball is so popular today. Sure, folks will bemoan the demise of pure players and team play, and these are valid criticisms; but at the same time I think the NBA is looking at all the money they could make off a slightly racist segment of the population versus all the money they would not have made without the styles they're now outlawing.
As usual, the white supremamcist apologists on the Strut are out in full force. I swear to god, half of you probably think lynching was just a bad accident involving a tree and rope.
"Nope, no racism anywhere."
Frankly, in the big scheme of things, the dress code isn't on the same level as, you know, apartheid or anything. But it's so fucking transparent that this is aprt of the attempt of the NBA to reform its image, make it less "street" (read: black) or less "hip hop" (definite ly read: black) because people like Stern feel like today's NBA is alienating white viewers. I mean, this stuff has been EXPLICTLY SAID, it's not backroom whispers. As far as a lot of cats are concerned, the NBA has an image problem and for better or for worse, it's players like Ron Artest who've become the posterchildren for that "problem."
The dress code is just another way of trying to "de-thug" the NBA and if you don't think race is at the heart of this, you're being willfully ignorant. I don't have a problem with the dress code insofar as I think dressing professionally is something professionals do. It just bothers me that people are so quick to make excuses and deflect the mere suggestion that race has anything to do with things like this.
I completely agree (surprise!).
People in this thread seem to be having trouble distinguishing between two very different things: 1) whether or not the decision was racially motivated, and 2) what the scale of the resulting injustice is.
One can acknowledge the former without implicitly equating the consequences with, say, recent events in New Orleans.
just because it happens to affect more blacks than whites doesn't mean it's "racially motivated".
As usual, the white supremamcist apologists on the Strut are out in full force. I swear to god, half of you probably think lynching was just a bad accident involving a tree and rope.
Wanna talk about apologists? People call racism when someone says a basketball player should wear a suit, but when a dude like Archaic spouts REAL bullshit, there's a warm & fuzzy post about how he should be unbanned. It make me sad to think that racism against certain groups is acceptable thing here. This isn't directed against O-Dub at all - I'm just quoting his post about "apologists on the Strut".
i've noticed that racism against all groups is a somewhat accceptable thing around here. in that everyone has been a target and no one has been banned for it. even NigerPlease was given an chance, but got the boot because he refused to own up and acted the fool.
The resurgence of the NBA has a whole lot to do with the streetball shit, the hip-hop generation, new styles, techniques, in-your-face play or whatever...
.... those players being ???? i've said it before and i'll say it again - the next generation of NBA superstars knows how to play the motherfucking game. lebron, wade, stoudemire .. even if you want to take it a step lower and talk about guys like dwight howard and shaun livingston. these dudes have it. the me-first characterisation of the NBA, in terms of the game itself, is sort of becoming an easy cop-out if you ask me.
Sure, folks will bemoan the demise of pure players and team play
let me point out that the last two champions (detroit and san antonio) are known for fundamentals, team play, and defense. not saying that there aren't teams who fit the description, but as far as the pitch of the NBA as a whole is concerned, this is pretty minor.
i think the NBA is actually taking its cue from some players who have always been classy - aforementioned jordan and dream, currently lebron, wade, et al., and trying to make their admirable conduct the standard.
My bad on that. I wasn't dissin on Karl. That dude is dope. If cat's wanna rock what ever they wanna rock it's cool with me. I sometimes have a bad habit of having thoughts that jump ahead without filling in the blanks. Doesn't help that I'm at work and got a million other things going on. The picture of Karl was more to show homeboy that there are cats in the NBA that like to rock the cowboy gear. Just to clarify ,that rockin what ever gear you want is totally cool with me.
The following quote
When the idea to examine conditioning is brought up why do so many wish to defend the actual conditioning that is imprisoning them.
This was really just refering to other dudes post and him gettin all bent outta shape.
As usual, the white supremamcist apologists on the Strut are out in full force. I swear to god, half of you probably think lynching was just a bad accident involving a tree and rope.
"Nope, no racism anywhere."
Frankly, in the big scheme of things, the dress code isn't on the same level as, you know, apartheid or anything. But it's so fucking transparent that this is aprt of the attempt of the NBA to reform its image, make it less "street" (read: black) or less "hip hop" (definite ly read: black) because people like Stern feel like today's NBA is alienating white viewers. I mean, this stuff has been EXPLICTLY SAID, it's not backroom whispers. As far as a lot of cats are concerned, the NBA has an image problem and for better or for worse, it's players like Ron Artest who've become the posterchildren for that "problem."
The dress code is just another way of trying to "de-thug" the NBA and if you don't think race is at the heart of this, you're being willfully ignorant. I don't have a problem with the dress code insofar as I think dressing professionally is something professionals do. It just bothers me that people are so quick to make excuses and deflect the mere suggestion that race has anything to do with things like this.
I completely agree (surprise!).
People in this thread seem to be having trouble distinguishing between two very different things: 1) whether or not the decision was racially motivated, and 2) what the scale of the resulting injustice is.
One can acknowledge the former without implicitly equating the consequences with, say, recent events in New Orleans.
just because it happens to affect more blacks than whites doesn't mean it's "racially motivated".
It often does.
And the law recognizes this.
It's a class of discrimination called "disparate impact".
That's neither here nor there, though. This policy rather clearly is racially motivated, not because it "happens to affect more blacks than whites" but because it is targeted towards signifiers of young urban blackness. If you can't--or don't want--to see that, I don't know what else to say to you.
As usual, the white supremamcist apologists on the Strut are out in full force. I swear to god, half of you probably think lynching was just a bad accident involving a tree and rope.
"Nope, no racism anywhere."
Frankly, in the big scheme of things, the dress code isn't on the same level as, you know, apartheid or anything. But it's so fucking transparent that this is aprt of the attempt of the NBA to reform its image, make it less "street" (read: black) or less "hip hop" (definite ly read: black) because people like Stern feel like today's NBA is alienating white viewers. I mean, this stuff has been EXPLICTLY SAID, it's not backroom whispers. As far as a lot of cats are concerned, the NBA has an image problem and for better or for worse, it's players like Ron Artest who've become the posterchildren for that "problem."
The dress code is just another way of trying to "de-thug" the NBA and if you don't think race is at the heart of this, you're being willfully ignorant. I don't have a problem with the dress code insofar as I think dressing professionally is something professionals do. It just bothers me that people are so quick to make excuses and deflect the mere suggestion that race has anything to do with things like this.
I completely agree (surprise!).
People in this thread seem to be having trouble distinguishing between two very different things: 1) whether or not the decision was racially motivated, and 2) what the scale of the resulting injustice is.
One can acknowledge the former without implicitly equating the consequences with, say, recent events in New Orleans.
from Wikipedia:
- In general, a racist considers one's own race the most valuable and others less valuable.
- The belief that the character and abilities of individuals are correlated with their race is not necessarily racism, since this can be asserted without implying an inequality in value. The application of this belief in dealing with members of that race, especially with little regard for variations within "races", is known as racial prejudice[/b].
- Granting or withholding rights or privileges based on race or refusing to associate with persons based on race is racial discrimination.[/b]
everyone needs to chill the fuck out. Where is the racism here??!... who has had their "right or priviledges" refused based on race?... THESE RULES ARE APPLIED TO ALL NBA PLAYERS!
I'll tell you, I'm more troubled by O-dub's inherent sterotyping, saying that "street" = Black, that "thug" = Black... do those terms generally apply only to Black NBA players? - Are you saying that Black NBA players are all refused their right to be "street" or "thug"??
The resurgence of the NBA has a whole lot to do with the streetball shit, the hip-hop generation, new styles, techniques, in-your-face play or whatever...
.... those players being ???? i've said it before and i'll say it again - the next generation of NBA superstars knows how to play the motherfucking game. lebron, wade, stoudemire .. even if you want to take it a step lower and talk about guys like dwight howard and shaun livingston. these dudes have it. the me-first characterisation of the NBA, in terms of the game itself, is sort of becoming an easy cop-out if you ask me.
Sure, folks will bemoan the demise of pure players and team play
let me point out that the last two champions (detroit and san antonio) are known for fundamentals, team play, and defense. not saying that there aren't teams who fit the description, but as far as the pitch of the NBA as a whole is concerned, this is pretty minor.
i think the NBA is actually taking its cue from some players who have always been classy - aforementioned jordan and dream, currently lebron, wade, et al., and trying to make their admirable conduct the standard.
I'm not saying that those players should be the example, or that they're the most winning players - I'm saying that the marketing aspect and the popularity of those players shouldn't be overlooked. I would personally like that all players had the class of those you mentioned, but I just think that the dress code enforcement is disengenuous. It stinks to me... does this poor behavior seem so prevalent to you that it needs this kind of shit?
why is it whenever there is a discussion about racism towards black people the same 2 or 3 people over-react and take it to the extreme level?
FOR GODS SAKE ITS JUST A DRESSCODE FOR WORK!!!
is it race based? why would you really care? are you saying that because they are black and make lots of money they should dress however they want whenever they want?
Suck it up and cry on your own time. I think its pathetic that people are trying to defend the poor downtrodden NBA athlete who only makes a shade over $200,000 a season as minimum wage.
But, who am I to say anything? I think lynching was actually a little more wrong than this so my priorities must be all fucked up
personally speaking preference has a lot to do with it. I think most people dress TERRIBLY nowadays, including basketball players and hiphop fashion. Plus, the nba has had the worst image problems of the 4 pro leagues in n. america. I'm sure someone will like to debate this, but it is my opinion.
Looking well put together commands respect, I don't think anyone can argue w/ that. You can't deny the impact of a 1st impression.
on the other side of the equation
"Utah center Greg Ostertag vowed to buy a sport coat from "a guy on the street."
"They're going to get the worst-looking one they've ever seen on me," he said."
As usual, the white supremamcist apologists on the Strut are out in full force. I swear to god, half of you probably think lynching was just a bad accident involving a tree and rope.
"Nope, no racism anywhere."
Frankly, in the big scheme of things, the dress code isn't on the same level as, you know, apartheid or anything. But it's so fucking transparent that this is aprt of the attempt of the NBA to reform its image, make it less "street" (read: black) or less "hip hop" (definite ly read: black) because people like Stern feel like today's NBA is alienating white viewers. I mean, this stuff has been EXPLICTLY SAID, it's not backroom whispers. As far as a lot of cats are concerned, the NBA has an image problem and for better or for worse, it's players like Ron Artest who've become the posterchildren for that "problem."
The dress code is just another way of trying to "de-thug" the NBA and if you don't think race is at the heart of this, you're being willfully ignorant. I don't have a problem with the dress code insofar as I think dressing professionally is something professionals do. It just bothers me that people are so quick to make excuses and deflect the mere suggestion that race has anything to do with things like this.
I completely agree (surprise!).
People in this thread seem to be having trouble distinguishing between two very different things: 1) whether or not the decision was racially motivated, and 2) what the scale of the resulting injustice is.
One can acknowledge the former without implicitly equating the consequences with, say, recent events in New Orleans.
just because it happens to affect more blacks than whites doesn't mean it's "racially motivated".
It often does.
And the law recognizes this.
It's a class of discrimination called "disparate impact".
That's neither here nor there, though. This policy rather clearly is racially motivated, not because it "happens to affect more blacks than whites" but because it is targeted towards signifiers of young urban blackness. If you can't--or don't want--to see that, I don't know what else to say to you.
it's targeted towards unprofessional attire, which includes cowboy hats and other shit posted earlier.
and don't say anything else to me, because this shit is starting to piss me off. when people cry racism over stupid shit like this it conditions people to ignore it when there are real issues.
I'm not saying that those players should be the example, or that they're the most winning players - I'm saying that the marketing aspect and the popularity of those players shouldn't be overlooked. I would personally like that all players had the class of those you mentioned, but I just think that the dress code enforcement is disengenuous. It stinks to me... does this poor behavior seem so prevalent to you that it needs this kind of shit?
no, not necessarily. but it certainly doesn't deserve the kind of tooth-and-nail defense it's getting.
in terms of marketing - these dudes are usually shown in their uniforms, tats in full glory - the "street" element is all there. it's not like we're going to start seeing jamal crawford in a suit on MSG pitching the knicks' new season.
and on a lighter note - how DOPE is it that the MSG network hasn't changed its graphics or music in literally like 20 years?? even fuckin clyde frasier still has the same facial hair he had in the 70s. shit is an absolute joy to watch when i'm trying to take a load off after work.
why is it whenever there is a discussion about racism towards black people the same 2 or 3 people over-react and take it to the extreme level?
FOR GODS SAKE ITS JUST A DRESSCODE FOR WORK!!!
is it race based? why would you really care? are you saying that because they are black and make lots of money they should dress however they want whenever they want?
Suck it up and cry on your own time. I think its pathetic that people are trying to defend the poor downtrodden NBA athlete who only makes a shade over $200,000 a season as minimum wage.
But, who am I to say anything? I think lynching was actually a little more wrong than this so my priorities must be all fucked up
Reading is fundamental:
One can acknowledge the former [racial motivation] without implicitly equating the consequences with, say, recent events in New Orleans.
I myself was just wondering: why is it that whenever we have these discussions, the same two or three semi-literates start abusing the exclamation point and caps-lock keys?
As usual, the white supremamcist apologists on the Strut are out in full force. I swear to god, half of you probably think lynching was just a bad accident involving a tree and rope.
Wanna talk about apologists? People call racism when someone says a basketball player should wear a suit, but when a dude like Archaic spouts REAL bullshit, there's a warm & fuzzy post about how he should be unbanned. It make me sad to think that racism against certain groups is acceptable thing here. This isn't directed against O-Dub at all - I'm just quoting his post about "apologists on the Strut".
H*w*rd,
we've spoke about this in the past. Don't you know it ain;t really racism unless its directed at african americans?
selective prejudice is what this board is all about
As usual, the white supremamcist apologists on the Strut are out in full force. I swear to god, half of you probably think lynching was just a bad accident involving a tree and rope.
"Nope, no racism anywhere."
Frankly, in the big scheme of things, the dress code isn't on the same level as, you know, apartheid or anything. But it's so fucking transparent that this is aprt of the attempt of the NBA to reform its image, make it less "street" (read: black) or less "hip hop" (definite ly read: black) because people like Stern feel like today's NBA is alienating white viewers. I mean, this stuff has been EXPLICTLY SAID, it's not backroom whispers. As far as a lot of cats are concerned, the NBA has an image problem and for better or for worse, it's players like Ron Artest who've become the posterchildren for that "problem."
The dress code is just another way of trying to "de-thug" the NBA and if you don't think race is at the heart of this, you're being willfully ignorant. I don't have a problem with the dress code insofar as I think dressing professionally is something professionals do. It just bothers me that people are so quick to make excuses and deflect the mere suggestion that race has anything to do with things like this.
I completely agree (surprise!).
People in this thread seem to be having trouble distinguishing between two very different things: 1) whether or not the decision was racially motivated, and 2) what the scale of the resulting injustice is.
One can acknowledge the former without implicitly equating the consequences with, say, recent events in New Orleans.
just because it happens to affect more blacks than whites doesn't mean it's "racially motivated".
It often does.
And the law recognizes this.
It's a class of discrimination called "disparate impact".
That's neither here nor there, though. This policy rather clearly is racially motivated, not because it "happens to affect more blacks than whites" but because it is targeted towards signifiers of young urban blackness. If you can't--or don't want--to see that, I don't know what else to say to you.
it's targeted towards unprofessional attire, which includes cowboy hats and other shit posted earlier.
and don't say anything else to me, because this shit is starting to piss me off. when people cry racism over stupid shit like this it conditions people to ignore it when there are real issues.
Errr, right, because cowboy hats are a widely embraced fashion amongst NBA players.
And the old "We should ignore relatively minor incidents of racism because making a fuss will condition people to ignore more significant incidents" really only contemplates one class of such "people": racists
why is it whenever there is a discussion about racism towards black people the same 2 or 3 people over-react and take it to the extreme level?
FOR GODS SAKE ITS JUST A DRESSCODE FOR WORK!!!
is it race based? why would you really care? are you saying that because they are black and make lots of money they should dress however they want whenever they want?
Suck it up and cry on your own time. I think its pathetic that people are trying to defend the poor downtrodden NBA athlete who only makes a shade over $200,000 a season as minimum wage.
But, who am I to say anything? I think lynching was actually a little more wrong than this so my priorities must be all fucked up
Reading is fundamental:
One can acknowledge the former [racial motivation] without implicitly equating the consequences with, say, recent events in New Orleans.
and I read and agree, however when Oliver made the comparrison between peoples views on this and lynching it showed me that some people are taking this to an extreme extreme
Comments
It's worth noting that for all the bitching some players are doing, the Players Organization did pretty much no pushback against this when it was brought up during the negotiations over the summer.
On the same coin, don't you think it kind of cheapens the very serious charge of racism when you apply it to something as ultimately trivial as a dress code?
What? Dude, until you actually start making sense I'm not going to reply to any of your posts.
yeah...those are comparable situations. sheesh.
and clearly anyone that thinks making professionals dress professionally isn't "racist" is a "white supremacist apologist". Good call.
My view is simply that these are teams. I don't claim to know anything about the NBA, but I do know something about being on a sports team. There was a dress code on a hockey team I was on when I was 10 years old. I played Junior B with some of the poorest, most redneck hillbilly people I have ever met and they wore a shirt and tie to every game. Why? Many reasons. The first and foremost was to show that we we're not individuals but equal members of a team. Of course I believe these rules should be enforced by coaches. Forget basketball for a second and look at other athletes.
Once again, this is a game. People play games to escape reality by entering a world with defined rules. There are many personal liberties given up when becomming an athlete, choosing what you wear on game day is one of them.
and again, why did no one care when the coaches were forced to wear suits?
Wanna talk about apologists? People call racism when someone says a basketball player should wear a suit, but when a dude like Archaic spouts REAL bullshit, there's a warm & fuzzy post about how he should be unbanned. It make me sad to think that racism against certain groups is acceptable thing here. This isn't directed against O-Dub at all - I'm just quoting his post about "apologists on the Strut".
Dope. Cool. Fresh.
there's no need to accuse anyone of anything because of this issue. the NBA is a business, the players and coaches are all EMPLOYEES first and foremost, and if their employer asks them to uphold (what i perceive to be perfectly reasonable) requirements for work, so be it. i'm lucky that i can wear my jeans and nikes to work, but if i show up monday and they say it's changed, that it's business casual now, i'm not in a position to complain or ask questions.
if i'm not mistaken, george steinbrenner has his own requirements (against facial hair, etc.), and many teams enforce their own dress codes. and the classiest players over the years, ie. hakeem and jordan, were always overdressed. in fact, stevie francis says that dream got all over his case for dressing like a teenager during press conferences, and to this day you'll see lil stevie wearing suits when he probably doesn't need to.
i think a bigger issue here is that the players themselves are commodities, so there's a sense of entitlement there - what they wear before and after games doesn't dictate how they play in uniform. my father is a musician who also happens to be a tenured professor, so he's got the same 'commoditized' employment circumstances going on, but of course the university enforces the same minimal requirements that the NBA is implementing. he could always go tell them to go fuck themselves, that he's there to fill a role that very few people on the planet can, and that if his attire is an issue it's missing the forest for the trees. and in my profession (i'm a bond trader), what i wear to work has no bearing on my performance, and if i'm putting up numbers nobody is going to bother me. but like i said, if it were the case that i had to uphold a certain standard and i wasn't willing to ... well i think that's a little self-important and babyish.
look, i'm passionate about the NBA, but i have to admit that the players have gotten worse about their demands. case in point: antonio davis gets traded to the knicks and pitches a fit because he's going to have to relocate his family from chicago to new york. dude makes $14 million a year - how does it come off to the guy stuck working for pitney bowes, making $35k a year, hearing that type of shit? and of course latrell sprewell's "i've got a family to feed" moment sort of takes the cake. marcus camby actually asked for a stipend from the league to buy clothes. dude makes $10 million per. let's be realistic here.
i'm not defending the league's motives, and i actually cringe at the fact they singled out certain things (chains, headphones, etc.), but i think it's well within reason to ask the players to maintain a certain level of professionalism when presenting themselves at NBA-sponsored events. it's easy to frame it in the context of david stern wanting to make the league more attractive to white viewers, but until anyone presents any evidence showing that the NBA is having trouble with its white audience i'm just not buying it.
I completely agree (surprise!).
People in this thread seem to be having trouble distinguishing between two very different things: 1) whether or not the decision was racially motivated, and 2) what the scale of the resulting injustice is.
One can acknowledge the former without implicitly equating the consequences with, say, recent events in New Orleans.
way to keep this in perspective
I do believe you just jumped the shark
File under: WWE athletes
Yeah, but it does affect how these same motherfuckers have been marketing them for years.
The resurgence of the NBA has a whole lot to do with the streetball shit, the hip-hop generation, new styles, techniques, in-your-face play or whatever... it isn't just the players benefitting from this... and it's not just street kids who love this, it's lil dudes in the suburbs who have never seen anyone, outside of maybe their uncle with the hairy chestsweater and the wide open collar, rocking a chain outside their shirt. All buy into it and all are the reason that basketball is so popular today. Sure, folks will bemoan the demise of pure players and team play, and these are valid criticisms; but at the same time I think the NBA is looking at all the money they could make off a slightly racist segment of the population versus all the money they would not have made without the styles they're now outlawing.
just because it happens to affect more blacks than whites doesn't mean it's "racially motivated".
i've noticed that racism against all groups is a somewhat accceptable thing around here. in that everyone has been a target and no one has been banned for it. even NigerPlease was given an chance, but got the boot because he refused to own up and acted the fool.
.... those players being ???? i've said it before and i'll say it again - the next generation of NBA superstars knows how to play the motherfucking game. lebron, wade, stoudemire .. even if you want to take it a step lower and talk about guys like dwight howard and shaun livingston. these dudes have it. the me-first characterisation of the NBA, in terms of the game itself, is sort of becoming an easy cop-out if you ask me.
let me point out that the last two champions (detroit and san antonio) are known for fundamentals, team play, and defense. not saying that there aren't teams who fit the description, but as far as the pitch of the NBA as a whole is concerned, this is pretty minor.
i think the NBA is actually taking its cue from some players who have always been classy - aforementioned jordan and dream, currently lebron, wade, et al., and trying to make their admirable conduct the standard.
not the same as...
It often does.
And the law recognizes this.
It's a class of discrimination called "disparate impact".
That's neither here nor there, though. This policy rather clearly is racially motivated, not because it "happens to affect more blacks than whites" but because it is targeted towards signifiers of young urban blackness. If you can't--or don't want--to see that, I don't know what else to say to you.
from Wikipedia:
everyone needs to chill the fuck out. Where is the racism here??!... who has had their "right or priviledges" refused based on race?... THESE RULES ARE APPLIED TO ALL NBA PLAYERS!
I'll tell you, I'm more troubled by O-dub's inherent sterotyping, saying that "street" = Black, that "thug" = Black... do those terms generally apply only to Black NBA players? - Are you saying that Black NBA players are all refused their right to be "street" or "thug"??
I don't get it.
I'm not saying that those players should be the example, or that they're the most winning players - I'm saying that the marketing aspect and the popularity of those players shouldn't be overlooked. I would personally like that all players had the class of those you mentioned, but I just think that the dress code enforcement is disengenuous. It stinks to me... does this poor behavior seem so prevalent to you that it needs this kind of shit?
FOR GODS SAKE ITS JUST A DRESSCODE FOR WORK!!!
is it race based? why would you really care? are you saying that because they are black and make lots of money they should dress however they want whenever they want?
Suck it up and cry on your own time. I think its pathetic that people are trying to defend the poor downtrodden NBA athlete who only makes a shade over $200,000 a season as minimum wage.
But, who am I to say anything? I think lynching was actually a little more wrong than this so my priorities must be all fucked up
Looking well put together commands respect, I don't think anyone can argue w/ that. You can't deny the impact of a 1st impression.
on the other side of the equation
I don't agree, them baseball fellas been looking kind of bad over the last 2 years
it's targeted towards unprofessional attire, which includes cowboy hats and other shit posted earlier.
and don't say anything else to me, because this shit is starting to piss me off. when people cry racism over stupid shit like this it conditions people to ignore it when there are real issues.
no, not necessarily. but it certainly doesn't deserve the kind of tooth-and-nail defense it's getting.
in terms of marketing - these dudes are usually shown in their uniforms, tats in full glory - the "street" element is all there. it's not like we're going to start seeing jamal crawford in a suit on MSG pitching the knicks' new season.
and on a lighter note - how DOPE is it that the MSG network hasn't changed its graphics or music in literally like 20 years?? even fuckin clyde frasier still has the same facial hair he had in the 70s. shit is an absolute joy to watch when i'm trying to take a load off after work.
Reading is fundamental:
I myself was just wondering: why is it that whenever we have these discussions, the same two or three semi-literates start abusing the exclamation point and caps-lock keys?
H*w*rd,
we've spoke about this in the past. Don't you know it ain;t really racism unless its directed at african americans?
selective prejudice is what this board is all about
Errr, right, because cowboy hats are a widely embraced fashion amongst NBA players.
And the old "We should ignore relatively minor incidents of racism because making a fuss will condition people to ignore more significant incidents" really only contemplates one class of such "people": racists
and I read and agree, however when Oliver made the comparrison between peoples views on this and lynching it showed me that some people are taking this to an extreme extreme