Deflategate and All Things Superbowl

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  • BrianBrian 7,618 Posts
    what happened to science

  • PatrickCrazy said:
    what happened to science

    Still there. The scientists the hired once concluded cigarettes don't cause cancer. Good luck with that.

  • RockadelicRockadelic Out Digging 13,993 Posts
    Science can be bought and sold....that's been proven many times.

  • vintageinfantsvintageinfants 4,535 Posts
    delete the NFL

  • djtopcatdjtopcat Seattle WA The 206 312 Posts



  • Fred_GarvinFred_Garvin The land of wind and ghosts 337 Posts
    This thread is slightly hilarious.

    I haven't taken a 'side' on this, and I won't (but for disclosure, I'm a lifelong Seahawks fan, and I don't believe deflation played any role in the SB). I do have some thoughts and questions.

    It's very odd that Brady would claim not to know whether balls were deflated. He's been throwing footballs for most of his life. That's kind of like if Felix Hernandez pitched with a scuffed ball and then claimed not to know it. When you're performing a task that you know every aspect of, intimately, it's hard [em]not[/em] to notice if something's a little off. For example, any of you who've played an instrument for a long time, especially a stringed one, can probably attest to this. Wouldn't you notice immediately if something was even slightly out of tune? I know I do.

    If indeed it's not a big deal and doesn't really affect the game, why do they even check ball PSI at all? If many others have done it, why did no one notice until now?

    It can't be 100% definitively said that Brady, or Belichick, or the team is guilty in this case... but even with the limited amount of evidence that's been produced, it doesn't look good for them. That's a shame, because from a strict football perspective, they're an excellent team and a well-run organization (in terms of team-building, coaching, etc.). They'd win a lot of games regardless of whether any funny business took place.

    I also, out of curiosity, visited some physics-related sites on which the topic of how much temperature might affect ball pressure was being discussed... not surprisingly, there were wildly varying theories, which I guess goes to show how few things the science community actually agrees on. Anyone here well-versed in physics? I'd be curious to know your opinion.

    There's also NE's ridiculously low fumble rate over the past 7-8 seasons, which is a huge deviation from the mean that has remained constant through all the personnel changes in that time. Here's a nerdy explanation of it for anyone who finds it interesting: http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/blog/2015/the-new-england-patriots-mysteriously-became-fumble-proof-in-2007

  • Bon VivantBon Vivant The Eye of the Storm 2,018 Posts
    Fred_Garvin said:
    .

    There's also NE's ridiculously low fumble rate over the past 7-8 seasons, which is a huge deviation from the mean that has remained constant through all the personnel changes in that time. Here's a nerdy explanation of it for anyone who finds it interesting: http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/blog/2015/the-new-england-patriots-mysteriously-became-fumble-proof-in-2007

    Steven Ridley is a fumble machine.

    b/w

    I think this is much ado about nothing. Four games, $1 million fine, and lost draft picks seems kind of steep for "Maybe, possibly, we're not sure but, Brady could have known", IMHO. His problem is not turning over those text messages, so I can understand a sanction for obstructing, just think it's a bit steep.

    I'm also not sure why the team is being collectively punished with that fine and lost draft picks. The Wells report cleared the organization and Belicheck of wrongdoing. Correct?

  • rain103rain103 476 Posts


  • rain103rain103 476 Posts
    It's the intent and cover-up that is crushing Brady and the Patriots not the fact that the balls are less in psi. IMO at least.

    Hell Sean Payton 'didn't have any involvement' in the bounty skeem and he got a 1 yr suspension, yet Belicheck is clear of this?

  • Fred_GarvinFred_Garvin The land of wind and ghosts 337 Posts
    Bon Vivant said:
    Steven Ridley is a fumble machine.
    Are you sure about that? A quick lookup after you mentioned it shows his fumble rate to be below average. More importantly, that's a team stat, and if you look at it, the Pats have averaged half the fumbles of any other team over the last 8 seasons. It's interesting mainly because it's a pretty big sample size. Also, it happened immediately after the rule was changed allowing teams to provide their own balls.
    I think this is much ado about nothing. Four games, $1 million fine, and lost draft picks seems kind of steep for "Maybe, possibly, we're not sure but, Brady could have known", IMHO. His problem is not turning over those text messages, so I can understand a sanction for obstructing, just think it's a bit steep.

    I'm also not sure why the team is being collectively punished with that fine and lost draft picks. The Wells report cleared the organization and Belicheck of wrongdoing. Correct?
    Depends on what you mean by nothing. Assuming this is real, if one thinks that manipulating equipment to gain an advantage is nothing, then so be it. Thing is, there's a rule about it, and being employed in a professional sport includes an agreement about everyone playing by the same rules.

    I haven't really formed an opinion on whether the punishment is fitting. But the Wells report didn't specifically clear anybody of wrongdoing, it just doesn't directly connect anyone to the incidents except Brady and the equipment managers, at least not yet. I assume the logic is that those guys are all employees of the organization, therefore the organization is ultimately responsible.

    Other interesting things that have barely been mentioned:

    1) The Colts actually contacted the NFL with deflation concerns the day before the game, as they'd apparently noticed something during their game earlier in the season.

    2) I didn't know this before, but it seems attendants are never supposed to move game balls without the officials' permission.

  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,518 Posts
    The fine is outrageous.
    Petraeus only had to pay $100,000 for leaking classified material.
    Plus the suspension, 4 games!
    Petraeus wasn't even suspened.

    Why is everyone so mean to NE?

  • Bon VivantBon Vivant The Eye of the Storm 2,018 Posts
    Fred_Garvin said:
    Bon Vivant said:
    Steven Ridley is a fumble machine.
    Are you sure about that? A quick lookup after you mentioned it shows his fumble rate to be below average. More importantly, that's a team stat, and if you look at it, the Pats have averaged half the fumbles of any other team over the last 8 seasons. It's interesting mainly because it's a pretty big sample size. Also, it happened immediately after the rule was changed allowing teams to provide their own balls.
    I think this is much ado about nothing. Four games, $1 million fine, and lost draft picks seems kind of steep for "Maybe, possibly, we're not sure but, Brady could have known", IMHO. His problem is not turning over those text messages, so I can understand a sanction for obstructing, just think it's a bit steep.

    I'm also not sure why the team is being collectively punished with that fine and lost draft picks. The Wells report cleared the organization and Belicheck of wrongdoing. Correct?
    Depends on what you mean by nothing. Assuming this is real, if one thinks that manipulating equipment to gain an advantage is nothing, then so be it. Thing is, there's a rule about it, and being employed in a professional sport includes an agreement about everyone playing by the same rules.

    I haven't really formed an opinion on whether the punishment is fitting. But the Wells report didn't specifically clear anybody of wrongdoing, it just doesn't directly connect anyone to the incidents except Brady and the equipment managers, at least not yet. I assume the logic is that those guys are all employees of the organization, therefore the organization is ultimately responsible.

    Other interesting things that have barely been mentioned:

    1) The Colts actually contacted the NFL with deflation concerns the day before the game, as they'd apparently noticed something during their game earlier in the season.

    2) I didn't know this before, but it seems attendants are never supposed to move game balls without the officials' permission.

    He sure seems to fumble quite a bit, 2 years with 4 fumbles, at least, and last year he only played in 6 games. Maybe I'm "overinflating" the significance. 2 seasons of 4 fumbles seems pretty high for a RB.

    I understand that there's a rule (for good reason, I presume), I'm just not sure the balls were manipulated (heh). The link I posted explains why I have doubt.

    I think the evidence presented isn't conclusive enough. I can get behind a punishment for not fully cooperating with the investigation, though. Just think the punishment is a bit steep and overly collective.

  • rain103rain103 476 Posts
    At what point does 'more probably than not' mixed in with a little common sense does it sink in?

    Aaron Hernandez's case didn't have 'all the evidence' yet we know how that turned out.

  • vintageinfantsvintageinfants 4,535 Posts
    "collective bargaining agreement"

  • djtopcatdjtopcat Seattle WA The 206 312 Posts
    The Cheatriots and Brady got off easy on this. They could have suspended him for the Super Bowl, or submitted the Wells report before the draft and really fucked them over.
    Brady is caught in a catch 22 right now. If he fights the suspension legally then he will be forced to hand over all evidence in discovery. They can also then dredge up all the old Spygate case files, and bring even more scrutiny to the organization. If he's really smart he'll tell his idiot agent Don Yee to take a hike, because that fool is only making things worse for him at this point. If he comes clean and admits to ordering the Code Red (asking for deflated footballs) he does the right thing, but tarnishes his legacy and proves the NFL was right. He can't win either way. He should have cooperated. Bummer lol

  • JRootJRoot 861 Posts
    At this point, Brady's best course is to accept the punishment with a public statement like, "The NFL has meted out a very severe punishment. Their conclusion disregards information provided to them by the Patriots and by my agent Don Yee. Although I do not agree with the punishment, I think it is best for the organization and for me to accept it and move on. I am grateful to our fans for their many messages of support for me and for the organization and look forward to taking the field in the pre-season and being back under center for game 5 against the Colts. I hope it turns out as well as the AFC Championship game."

    JRoot

    PS I grew up in the PNW and have been a Seahawks fan for life. Clearly the game balls didn't make that big a difference in TB's performance. But the rules are the rules.


  • Bon VivantBon Vivant The Eye of the Storm 2,018 Posts
    rain103 said:
    At what point does 'more probably than not' mixed in with a little common sense does it sink in?

    Aaron Hernandez's case didn't have 'all the evidence' yet we know how that turned out.

    "More probably than not" is a far cry from "beyond a reasonable doubt". "More probably than not" can mean a 50.000000001% it occurred. That's not a very high probability.

    Common sense tells me Brady doesn't need to cheat.

  • Bon VivantBon Vivant The Eye of the Storm 2,018 Posts
    JRoot said:
    At this point, Brady's best course is to accept the punishment with a public statement like, "The NFL has meted out a very severe punishment. Their conclusion disregards information provided to them by the Patriots and by my agent Don Yee. Although I do not agree with the punishment, I think it is best for the organization and for me to accept it and move on. I am grateful to our fans for their many messages of support for me and for the organization and look forward to taking the field in the pre-season and being back under center for game 5 against the Colts. I hope it turns out as well as the AFC Championship game."




    Wholeheartedly agree. He'd be smart to move on.

  • HorseleechHorseleech 3,830 Posts
    I suspect Robert Kraft didn't do anybody any favors when he announced very publicly prior to the Superbowl that he would expect an apology to the entire organization if the investigation cleared them of any wrongdoing.

    And wtf, is that deflator ring on a dead person?

  • rain103rain103 476 Posts
    I just started the new Deflator diet, wish me luck! Hoping to lose about 12.5 lbs.

  • RAJRAJ tenacious local 7,732 Posts
    PATRIOTS: 2014 SUPERBOWL CHAMPIONS!*

  • Fred_GarvinFred_Garvin The land of wind and ghosts 337 Posts
    Just when I thought this topic couldn't get weirder... the Patriots organization has now started a "truther" blog:

    http://wellsreportcontext.com/

  • amphibiousamphibious 147 Posts
    just to add some context - the patriots have a low fumble rate because they bench people who fumble. 1lb less psi does not make a ball "fumble proof" this shit is hilarous

  • djtopcat said:
    The Cheatriots and Brady got off easy on this. They could have suspended him for the Super Bowl, or submitted the Wells report before the draft and really fucked them over.
    Brady is caught in a catch 22 right now. If he fights the suspension legally then he will be forced to hand over all evidence in discovery. They can also then dredge up all the old Spygate case files, and bring even more scrutiny to the organization. If he's really smart he'll tell his idiot agent Don Yee to take a hike, because that fool is only making things worse for him at this point. If he comes clean and admits to ordering the Code Red (asking for deflated footballs) he does the right thing, but tarnishes his legacy and proves the NFL was right. He can't win either way. He should have cooperated. Bummer lol

    Your perfect record of stupid comments on this topic continues.

    There is no scenario under which Spygate would play any role in Brady's appeal. Stop the idiocy

  • Bon Vivant said:
    JRoot said:
    At this point, Brady's best course is to accept the punishment with a public statement like, "The NFL has meted out a very severe punishment. Their conclusion disregards information provided to them by the Patriots and by my agent Don Yee. Although I do not agree with the punishment, I think it is best for the organization and for me to accept it and move on. I am grateful to our fans for their many messages of support for me and for the organization and look forward to taking the field in the pre-season and being back under center for game 5 against the Colts. I hope it turns out as well as the AFC Championship game."




    Wholeheartedly agree. He'd be smart to move on.

    Why would he even consider not appealing? He could easily get 2 games knocked off the suspension even without going to court.

    If he gave up that easily he wouldn't be Tom Brady. He'd be Peyton Manning.

  • Fred_Garvin said:
    Just when I thought this topic couldn't get weirder... the Patriots organization has now started a "truther" blog:

    http://wellsreportcontext.com/

    It has actual science in it so most Americans will get hives if they read it.

  • rain103rain103 476 Posts
    LazarusOblong said:
    Fred_Garvin said:
    Just when I thought this topic couldn't get weirder... the Patriots organization has now started a "truther" blog:

    http://wellsreportcontext.com/

    It has actual science in it so most Americans will get hives if they read it.

    Every non-Patriots fan:

  • BrianBrian 7,618 Posts
    Justice delivered and upheld.

  • white_teawhite_tea 3,262 Posts
    Evidence on the since-destroyed Brady cellphone suggested that perhaps Tom was Aaron Hernandez's weed man and Bubblicious handler? Could that be true?
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