Sample Snitching

LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,517 Posts
edited September 2014 in Strut Central
Just bought some records from an original artist whose record has been sampled by a much loved dj.
I of course, let him know about the sample, and that he may be owed royalties.
Is that frowned on?

His vocals of a traditional song, learned from Leadbelly, were sampled.
Since he is not the writer, does he even have a claim.
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  Comments


  • YES. This is frowned upon.

    If HIS version was sampled he is due royalties because they sampled his MASTER version which requires a license and compensation(unless they agree on a 1 time fee before release)

    Peace, stein...

  • I got blasted very hard on a local hip hop production forum for merely pointing out a sample I had found while digging was used (un-credited that I could find) by a popular local artist in his most popular track.
    in a thread about samples and sampling.

    touchy subject to some people i guess.

  • ketanketan Warmly booming riffs 3,095 Posts
    depends on the artist, no? imagine if it was a stadium-level act versus an artist who just hadn't had a lucrative career and could use the cash.

  • Id say it depends - if dude is struggling and the sampler is making loot off of him then it's all good to point it out. If you were snitching on someones basement session ep that they werent making any money off then that'd be a problem. Id say it's basically ok if it feels like someone is being exploited - if not let it be.

  • Why would anybody want to dry snitch. What's in it for you? I hate people that do this.

  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,517 Posts
    Thanks everyone for your input.

    @YI - The sample, is not actually a sample. The recording was used in a rehearsal for a live dj set. The rehearsal was recorded and released by the djs.

    @ K and A - Right, dj is playing the Hollywood Bowl, original artist is playing coffee houses.

    @ CM - The reason for it is, first I have a relationship with the artist, and second as stated by K&A. I also have a relationship with the other people in question. I assume, them being good people, if any royalties are owed they would want to pay. My purpose was not to snitch. In conversation about the recording in question I asked if he knew it had been used.

  • Def snitch. What kinda real artist bites like that? That's a bad so-call-artist anyways. Better for the game to rid these cheap bastard mofos.

  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,517 Posts
    :Don't hate the Slayer...

  • I don't see a problem letting the original artist know his stuff is still out there somewhere and still somewhat relevent. I'd probably leave it up to him to find it and persue royalties though. If the song/sample was a big enough hit he would probably find out soon enough, no?

  • JimsterJimster Cruffiton.etsy.com 6,885 Posts
    Seems simply fair to me to let a struggling artist know if someone is making money off their work.

    I recally Monty (RIP) posting here, recalling when Will.I.Am told him they would be using his work, deliberately uncleared, and that he would have a good payout if he was to pursue it, which he did, IIRC. - Will was actively looking to see Monty got paid.

    :applause:

  • Why would somebody sample snitch? Maybe because the original artist/composer doesn't have a pot to piss in. They deserve some loot if their sample was used and the sampling artist profited from it. A buddy of mine told Lou Bond that he had been sampled and who sampled him (years before his LP was reissued) and you know what Lou wanted? "A used corolla or something, because it is a drag to ride a bike in the rain." So, I say "yay" to sample snitching.

  • I don't want to instigate a legal dispute. I also don't want to make up my mind who deserves what money. I don't see the bank accounts or royalty statements, and I don't try to place people economically.

  • P.S. Try and clear a sample sometime before you judge artists that don't pay royalties. I don't believe artists should limit themselves to making art that is legal within our current (broken) copyright framework.

  • GaryGary 3,982 Posts
    Just do it. Anybody who samples knows that they might get caught at this point in the game. It's not 1989 anymore.

  • why risk getting sued for a year's salary to make sampled based music to entertain fans that will go out of their way to put you in legal jeopardy? why do it at this point?

  • skelskel You can't cheat karma 5,033 Posts
    Bunch of muhfuckin grasses up in this bith

  • El PrezEl Prez NE Ohio 1,141 Posts
    Kinda like the guy that goes to the local record shop and tells the owner about popsike and collectors frenzy

  • ketanketan Warmly booming riffs 3,095 Posts
    i don't know the current laws anywhere very well, but people should be able to create whatever they want using whatever they want when it comes to music.

    BUT if you're making $$ off a particular usage, then you should feel responsible for paying out a little bit to the og. and if you're doing something potentially offensive with it, then expect to be criticized by the og. and there might need to be laws to regulate that behaviour.


  • kalakala 3,358 Posts
    sweatshop said:
    Kinda like the guy that goes to the local record shop and tells the owner about popsike and collectors frenzy

    yea how dare he stay in business

  • El PrezEl Prez NE Ohio 1,141 Posts
    kala said:
    sweatshop said:
    Kinda like the guy that goes to the local record shop and tells the owner about popsike and collectors frenzy

    yea how dare he stay in business

    although I do agree that the o.g artist should be paid.......as far as record stores go dont get into business if you don't know the game....open up a record store and dont know how to price the records

  • HarveyCanalHarveyCanal "a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
    All is fair in love and sampling.

  • Who owns the publishing rights? Who owns the masters?

    If you're sample snitching just so some lawyer in a high rise can get his daughter that new iPhone 6+, fuck that shit.

  • DB_CooperDB_Cooper Manhatin' 7,823 Posts
    HarveyCanal said:
    All is fair in love and sampling.

    I would have thought the one Harvey would be 100% anti-snitching. I thought that was a central plank in the Canal platform. WHAT SAY THE NEIGHBORHOOD ELDERS?

  • HarveyCanalHarveyCanal "a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
    DB_Cooper said:
    HarveyCanal said:
    All is fair in love and sampling.

    I would have thought the one Harvey would be 100% anti-snitching. I thought that was a central plank in the Canal platform. WHAT SAY THE NEIGHBORHOOD ELDERS?

    I wouldn't snitch myself. But who is to stop anyone else who can recognize the sample? The way I see it, either mask that shit so NOBODY COULD EVER tell where it was sampled from...or expect to be snitched on someday.

  • RAJRAJ tenacious local 7,779 Posts
    I think it's OK if it's in the ilk of Jay Z or Eminem.

    There was a memorable case on here where a Strutter pointed out a Stark Reality sample on a Black Eyed Peas record that was not cleared. Though apparently Will.I.Am did it intentionally for Monty Stark to get more money!??

    As for your fledgling artists, I think it's pretty wack. Uncleared samples is what keeps the art form alive. If it wasn't for that, we'd have a lot more keyboard beats.

  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,517 Posts
    To recap my situation.
    Original artist owns the masters.
    Smithsonian/Folkways most likely owns publishing.
    Not a true sample, song from dj set that was released in various formats, CD, Vinyl, DVD...
    DJs are on a high profile tour now playing large clubs and theaters.
    Original artist has a day job and plays coffeehouses/bars on the weekends.
    DJs are lawyered up.
    Original artist met a lawyer once.
    I know the original artist through friends and his music.
    I know the DJs through record digging.
    I did not discover the sample, I found it at whosampledthat when I was researching the original artist.
    The sample is also noted in wikipedia.
    I did not say to the original artist "Hey your song was sampled now you can sue and become rich!"
    Conversation was more like, "yeah, did you know that has been sampled?"

    If the original chooses to contact the sampling artist some money may change hands, but nobody is going to get rich or go broke.

  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,517 Posts
    My observation of replies are that they mostly fall in two broad categories.
    Those whose affinities are more with the sampler.
    Those whose affinities are more with the original artist.

  • HorseleechHorseleech 3,830 Posts
    RAJ said:
    Though apparently Will.I.Am did it intentionally for Monty Stark to get more money!??


    Am I the only one who has a hard time believing this?

  • The_NonThe_Non 5,691 Posts
    Have a hard time all you want, it happened
    You should be able to sample anything ever. Sample laws make things less fun. There should be a threshold of money made where sampling credits kick in. If you're sampling and you make no money but make good music, who is hurt? Too many asses are chapped in the music biz.
    I hate you Gilbert O'Sullivan.
    I hate you Steely Dan.
    I hate you MARRS.

  • RAJRAJ tenacious local 7,779 Posts
    Horseleech said:
    RAJ said:
    Though apparently Will.I.Am did it intentionally for Monty Stark to get more money!??


    Am I the only one who has a hard time believing this?

    http://www.soulstrut.com/index.php?/forums/viewthread/3728/
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