A family member of mine read an article about the people who panhandle on freeway ramps.
He would always say, don't give them any money, they are not poor, they make a lot of money doing that and could work a job if they were not lazy.
And I'm thinking, who would want to stand all day at a freeway ramp in the sun, rain and snow?
And how is that lazier than a real job.
I'm reading Fast Food Nation and it chronicles McDonald's' history of union-busting.
Obviously they should be free to organize.
And McDonald's should be/is free not to employ union labor.
So you think they should be free to organize but McDonalds can fire them if they do?
Some freedom.
Fortunately that's not actually how our labor laws work... yet.
that's not what I said.
please to school us on "how our labor laws work."
are you suggesting that they require companies to hire unionized workers?
That question makes no sense. A company's existing workers can vote to unionize. There are protections in the law to allow them to do so, and a company can't fire workers just because they do so.
This is a poor forum to school you on a very complex subject.
A) the idea is probably like, demand $15 / meet at $12.
B) Why not demand an exorbant amount of money? Wanna know who's never said "this is an exorbant amount of money for the job I'm doing"? Every executive boardmember ever!! Joe Schmoe thinks $15/hr for a gruelling fast food job is laughable, but says nothing about executives bringing home 8-figure salaries which I'm sure are very deserved. Only in america
Joe Schmoe thinks $15/hr for a gruelling fast food job is laughable, but says nothing about executives bringing home 8-figure salaries which I'm sure are very deserved. Only in america
$15 / hr is market rate for a strong line cook aspiring to and presumably capable of management at a decent NYC restaurant. Next step would be salary and/or managerial shift pay. Entry or base level cook is $11-14
$8-10 / hr is for dishwashing / porter shift who often work longer and more strenuous hours. Often don't get paid overtime and are generally taken advantage of because they don't have legal documentation.
The responsibilities associated with preparing fast food should be less than fine dining because presumably any thinking and/or decision making has already been instituted and product execution is less interactive and technical. Payrate on this scale should be $10-12
I think that represents current NYC market value.
What people should be paid is a different question.
But profit margins in the food industry are very tight. Often a few dollars here and there make a very real difference at the end of the day. Fast food I'm not 100% sure about, and I'm sure they cut every corner they can, but that industry still must abide by the same cogs to some extent.
To answer the question, I think $15 an hour for the execution of fast food is at the high end of what makes sense to a corporation. Is it realistic in terms of profitability? No. Is it fair and just for the employee? Yes.
Story of the ages.
$15 is on the high side but people talking like it's "crazy" aren't considering regional cost of living. Here in Boston the cost of living is high and the college kid part-time food/service jobs pay in the $9-$12 range. In other parts of the country that's a decent wage that would allow you to rent an apartment alone and have a car, where here you need 3 roommates and a bus pass. NYC has an even higher cost of living so $15 an hour there would be like $13 here in how far it gets you. So yeah the burger flippers in Cleveland or Tuskaloosa might not need $15 an hour but in Queens it isn't so far off the mark.
$15 is on the high side but people talking like it's "crazy" aren't considering regional cost of living. Here in Boston the cost of living is high and the college kid part-time food/service jobs pay in the $9-$12 range. In other parts of the country that's a decent wage that would allow you to rent an apartment alone and have a car, where here you need 3 roommates and a bus pass. NYC has an even higher cost of living so $15 an hour there would be like $13 here in how far it gets you. So yeah the burger flippers in Cleveland or Tuskaloosa might not need $15 an hour but in Queens it isn't so far off the mark.
Sure, which is why the $15 an hour movement is concentrating on big cities with high costs of living.
Not familiar with Tuskaloosa, though. Is that where Fleetwood Mac is from?
Paying people 15 dollars an hour to work at Mickey D's would stimulate the economy. I'm not going to trash the people who flip burgers for a living.. for most people over 18 that's the absolute end of the line gig, for anyone under 18 it's a spending money gig. It's a job where you end up as opposed to aspiring to have.. You could pay those people 200 dollars an hour and they would still be broke, the only difference is the economy would be booming, cause the guy who is working the fryolator would absolutely be driving a Bens.
Oh you a family man? Well I shouldn't be surprised since your sister's flipping burgers and your mother's frying fries. And oh damn, look, here comes one more. It's your father, he just finished mopping the floor.
"some Australians actually make less than the adult minimum wage. The country allows lower pay for teenagers, and the labor deal McDonald's struck with its employees currently pays 16-year-olds roughly US$8-an-hour, not altogether different from what they'd make in the states."
Australia. Where you can fly to the US to buy stuff and it's cheaper than buying it there.
"some Australians actually make less than the adult minimum wage. The country allows lower pay for teenagers, and the labor deal McDonald's struck with its employees currently pays 16-year-olds roughly US$8-an-hour, not altogether different from what they'd make in the states."
Australia. Where you can fly to the US to buy stuff and it's cheaper than buying it there.
Aussies have paid anywhere from 6 cents to 70 cents extra for their Big Macs compared to Americans over the past two years, a 1 percent to 17 percent premium.
"It's also possible that McDonald's keeps its prices down overseas by squeezing more productivity out of its workers. Researchers studying the impact of minimum wage increases on American fast food chains in the Deep South have found that while restaurants mostly cope by their raising prices, they also respond by handing their employees more responsibility. It stands to reason that in places like Europe and Australia, managers have found ways to get more mileage out of their staff as well. "
"It's also possible that McDonald's keeps its prices down overseas by squeezing more productivity out of its workers. Researchers studying the impact of minimum wage increases on American fast food chains in the Deep South have found that while restaurants mostly cope by their raising prices, they also respond by handing their employees more responsibility. It stands to reason that in places like Europe and Australia, managers have found ways to get more mileage out of their staff as well. "
Meanwhile here in the US worker productivity has been increasing all along but pay has stagnated or regressed, and morale is in the toilet as a result. Eventually this should lead to a lot more worker unrest and labor activity, and I hope it does.
Comments
They should.
LOL!
Haha!
that's not what I said.
please to school us on "how our labor laws work."
are you suggesting that they require companies to hire unionized workers?
That question makes no sense. A company's existing workers can vote to unionize. There are protections in the law to allow them to do so, and a company can't fire workers just because they do so.
This is a poor forum to school you on a very complex subject.
B) Why not demand an exorbant amount of money? Wanna know who's never said "this is an exorbant amount of money for the job I'm doing"? Every executive boardmember ever!! Joe Schmoe thinks $15/hr for a gruelling fast food job is laughable, but says nothing about executives bringing home 8-figure salaries which I'm sure are very deserved. Only in america
It really is an American conundrum.
http://www.aflcio.org/Corporate-Watch/CEO-Pay-and-You/CEO-to-Worker-Pay-Gap-in-the-United-States/Pay-Gaps-in-the-World
http://go.bloomberg.com/multimedia/ceo-pay-ratio/
I read FFN and McD aint lettin' that happen.
Pimps aint givin 0. Deal.
Interesting survey of McD's interactions with unions around the world:
http://www.mcspotlight.org/campaigns/tactics/unionall.html
$8-10 / hr is for dishwashing / porter shift who often work longer and more strenuous hours. Often don't get paid overtime and are generally taken advantage of because they don't have legal documentation.
The responsibilities associated with preparing fast food should be less than fine dining because presumably any thinking and/or decision making has already been instituted and product execution is less interactive and technical. Payrate on this scale should be $10-12
I think that represents current NYC market value.
What people should be paid is a different question.
But profit margins in the food industry are very tight. Often a few dollars here and there make a very real difference at the end of the day. Fast food I'm not 100% sure about, and I'm sure they cut every corner they can, but that industry still must abide by the same cogs to some extent.
To answer the question, I think $15 an hour for the execution of fast food is at the high end of what makes sense to a corporation. Is it realistic in terms of profitability? No. Is it fair and just for the employee? Yes.
Story of the ages.
Sure, which is why the $15 an hour movement is concentrating on big cities with high costs of living.
Not familiar with Tuskaloosa, though. Is that where Fleetwood Mac is from?
There are teachers, freelancers, small business owners (hello!) and public sector employees making 25-35k a year. Why not all go line up at BK!
Unrealistic.
No, it's not. Those people should also make more money.
Why are to-the-manor-born folks like you unable to conceive of any other social order?
Why is the way it is the only one you think is possible?
I think I know the answer, but you're welcome to surprise me.
Just to add.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/they-wont-be-lovin-it-mcdonalds-admits-90-of-employees-are-on-zerohours-contracts-without-guaranteed-work-or-a-stable-income-8747986.html
"some Australians actually make less than the adult minimum wage. The country allows lower pay for teenagers, and the labor deal McDonald's struck with its employees currently pays 16-year-olds roughly US$8-an-hour, not altogether different from what they'd make in the states."
Australia. Where you can fly to the US to buy stuff and it's cheaper than buying it there.
http://goo.gl/Bsul8
And yet:
- From that Atlantic article
Good for Australia.
"It's also possible that McDonald's keeps its prices down overseas by squeezing more productivity out of its workers. Researchers studying the impact of minimum wage increases on American fast food chains in the Deep South have found that while restaurants mostly cope by their raising prices, they also respond by handing their employees more responsibility. It stands to reason that in places like Europe and Australia, managers have found ways to get more mileage out of their staff as well. "
Better pay, greater responsibilities, higher morale, increased productivity.
Meanwhile here in the US worker productivity has been increasing all along but pay has stagnated or regressed, and morale is in the toilet as a result. Eventually this should lead to a lot more worker unrest and labor activity, and I hope it does.
Just release the hounds!