Soul Strut 100: # 31 - DJ Shadow - Endtroducing

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  • Fred_GarvinFred_Garvin The land of wind and ghosts 337 Posts
    james said:
    It stands as an epic-sounding thing made by one dude
    On that topic, does anyone know if there's any truth to the rumor (which I've occasionally heard, but never been able to confirm one way or the other) that The Automator was responsible for a much larger portion of Endtroducing than he's credited with? I don't really care one way or the other, just curious.

  • HarveyCanalHarveyCanal "a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
    For the record, whether permeating the hood or not was not where I was trying to steer this conversation. Actually, Batbrah was the one who drove that point home.

    Although I did say loud and clear how Shadow's success empowered skittish whitey in hip-hop to the point that dudes still get waaay too carried away with it.

    For instance...whoa, dude made a record of sample ALL BY HIMSELF! I mean wow, Stevie Wonder and Prince have nothing on him.

  • DocMcCoyDocMcCoy "Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,921 Posts
    Fred_Garvin said:
    james said:
    It stands as an epic-sounding thing made by one dude
    On that topic, does anyone know if there's any truth to the rumor (which I've occasionally heard, but never been able to confirm one way or the other) that The Automator was responsible for a much larger portion of Endtroducing than he's credited with? I don't really care one way or the other, just curious.

    I've never heard that rumour at all. Moreover, to my ears there's nothing about Endtroducing that sounds as if Automator might have been responsible for it.

  • DJ_EnkiDJ_Enki 6,471 Posts
    DocMcCoy said:
    Fred_Garvin said:
    james said:
    It stands as an epic-sounding thing made by one dude
    On that topic, does anyone know if there's any truth to the rumor (which I've occasionally heard, but never been able to confirm one way or the other) that The Automator was responsible for a much larger portion of Endtroducing than he's credited with? I don't really care one way or the other, just curious.

    I've never heard that rumour at all. Moreover, to my ears there's nothing about Endtroducing that sounds as if Automator might have been responsible for it.

    As far as I know, Automator just did some engineering work, and I think I remember Shadow crediting him with some Pro Tools editing, which was a pretty new thing back then.

  • drbrownscelray said:



    Just now was maybe the second or third time I've ever heard that song and I really in all honesty do not understand what's so special about it. I fully get that if this record was your entry point in to hip hop then it carries huge emotional resonance the same way any other "gateway record" be it "Criminal Minded" all the way on down the line to "He's The DJ I'm The Rapper" (or for that matter a Drake album if you're 14) would, but from a strictly musical standpoint I still cram to understand what makes this special or groundbreaking.

    If I may take this interlude to actually talk about the music on this record....

    For me it's the actual sound and vibe of the thing. Corny as it may sound, to me this record always sounded like the soundtrack to a dream... some private movie in my own head. And I suppose a lot of that has to do with the patina of the source material. The warmth of the organ, the dust on the drums... a lot of people have tried to imitate the sound of this record, but so much of it sounded watered down and tepid. There's a particular Moby track from around the same period that seemed like a lame attempt to ape MIAPW and my ears immediately rejected it, along with so much of the "trip hop" shit that followed in Endtroducing's wake.

    So while I totally get why somebody might find this boring, for me it's more about a mood and sonic texture than any sort of technical or... er, cultural? appreciation.

  • bassiebassie 11,710 Posts
    In high school, I sat next to this older guy who had come back to get his diploma. We bonded over love of music, even though we didn't really have the same taste.

    Guy I was dealing with at the time had just given me a VU tape he made me and it got Greg and I talking. He said it took a long time for him to give the band a chance because the fans were so annoying in their 'this is the second coming' dedication. He had just that year listened to a couple of their records, but still didn't get the hype.

    I feel the same about Shadow. And that wanky Mansion set didn't help matters at all.

  • HarveyCanalHarveyCanal "a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
    I refused to listen to any full Pink Floyd album for like 15 years, until I was able to separate my mindset from all the times I had people tell me how life-changing an experience it would be to go goo goo over them.

    Oh yeah, I had been forced to watch that stinker of a movie The Wall during that dead time, which wasn't helping their case at all.

    But yeah, come a certain time when the Floyd love had gone relatively quiet, I picked up copies of a few of Floyd's albums and was able to properly appreciate them by my own set of standards.

    Had I tried to do that in say high school or college, with other people's all-too-lofty opinions still echoing in my ears, I would still hate them to this day.

  • bassiebassie 11,710 Posts
    Absolutely.

    My taste has definitely changed over the years. Music I found 'boring', I now love. Records I shied away from due to the hype and ubiquity, I returned to, albeit, to mixed results. etc etc

    Entroducing has popped up now and then - in record stores and restaurants mostly - so I've had opportunities to revisit. I still don't feel it.

  • yuichiyuichi Urban sprawl 11,329 Posts
    #31 > few detractors.

    The fact that so many have voted this in as an important record to them "personally" speaks volumes. It's not your thing anymore. We get it. It was never your thing. Why are you replying to the thread in the first place? It's shameful to use this as an entry point to getting into hip-hop and crate-digging 101. We get it it. You're cool.

  • HarveyCanalHarveyCanal "a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
    yuichi said:
    #31 > few detractors.

    The fact that so many have voted this in as an important record to them "personally" speaks volumes. It's not your thing anymore. We get it. It was never your thing. Why are you replying to the thread in the first place? It's shameful to use this as an entry point to getting into hip-hop and crate-digging 101. We get it it. You're cool.

    You keep throwing them chairs. I'll be over here throwing tables...


  • bassiebassie 11,710 Posts
    yuichi said:
    #31 > few detractors.

    The fact that so many have voted this in as an important record to them "personally" speaks volumes. It's not your thing anymore. We get it. It was never your thing. Why are you replying to the thread in the first place? It's shameful to use this as an entry point to getting into hip-hop and crate-digging 101. We get it it. You're cool.

    How cool I may or may not be is your concern, not mine. You keep raising this point.
    Who said anything about it being shameful? Again, your issue.

    We are in this thread because it's called a discussion - on a public music board - not a Shadow fans only circle jerk. Do you only reply in the NBA thread to cheer on your team?

    And about it being #31 - look at the some of the records 100 through 32 and then talk to me about how I should concede to placement.

  • jamesjames chicago 1,863 Posts
    yuichi said:
    #31 > few detractors.

    The fact that so many have voted this in as an important record to them "personally" speaks volumes. It's not your thing anymore. We get it. It was never your thing. Why are you replying to the thread in the first place? It's shameful to use this as an entry point to getting into hip-hop and crate-digging 101. We get it it. You're cool.

    Be easy, dude.

    Well-thought-out explanations of why someone doesn't like something ultimately say just as much as why they do, and considering that enthusiam is often generic where criticisms tend to be specific, critique sometimes says more. You'll always get more from a homemade dis than from a store-bought compliment.

    There's that old saying about how "influence is measured by what has to go around it," and it says a fair amount that Endtroducing is a record that even people who don't like it feel like they somehow have to contend with it. While I don't have much use for unconstructive [post]"Fuck DJ Shadow!"[/post] type shit, and while generally I'm less interested in people's social/cultural reasons for disliking it (because it's always pretty much the same reason), I consider Endtroducing a really personal record and so I am interested to hear people's personal reasons for disliking it.

    The dumb shit is the dumb shit, but the rest of this is all just part of talking about music, you know? As long as people are really talking, it's nothing to be mad at.

    ...

    In a side note: While inclusion (or non-) on this list might mean something and thus be worth talking about, the rankings do not (didn't Raj say that there's only like three votes' difference between the #20 record and the #50 record or something?) and thus are not, and I feel like the conversation would get better sooner if people cooled their jets on that shit.

  • jleejlee 1,539 Posts
    bassie said:
    And about it being #31 - look at the some of the records 100 through 32 and then talk to me about how I should concede to placement.
    to each his/her own....and I have been only intermittently involved in the top 100 process/discussion, but I was under the impression this was the:
    Just to note once again. This is a list of "Top 100 Soul Strut Related Records". Not OMG this is the definitive best music ever made list.
    not sure what the parameters of the "top 100 list" exactly where but for that reason only, I must say I would have expected this album to be a bit higher given the nature of how the 'Strut works. Will be interesting to see what else shows up that sparks similar type of banter.

  • bassiebassie 11,710 Posts
    jlee said:
    bassie said:
    And about it being #31 - look at the some of the records 100 through 32 and then talk to me about how I should concede to placement.
    to each his/her own....and I have been only intermittently involved in the top 100 process/discussion, but I was under the impression this was the:
    Just to note once again. This is a list of "Top 100 Soul Strut Related Records". Not OMG this is the definitive best music ever made list.
    not sure what the parameters of the "top 100 list" exactly where but for that reason only, I must say I would have expected this album to be a bit higher given the nature of how the 'Strut works. Will be interesting to see what else shows up that sparks similar type of banter.

    I don't want to repeat what James has already said, and your own comment up here about it not being definitive, but I thought it was clear that was my point; that placement on the SStrut 100 is not a real indication of 'worth'...certainly not enough to dismiss (or give extra weight to) an opinion on said record.

  • yuichiyuichi Urban sprawl 11,329 Posts
    For goodness sakes, Endtroducing would easily make Vice Mag's top 10 electronica albums of all-time.

    I just listened to it front-to-back on youtube this morning, and really it wasn't that bad. It's actually really well-thought-out and actually a dope album. We all know the reasons why Harvey doesn't like it. What about you Bassie?

  • bassiebassie 11,710 Posts
    I don't have a deep or profound explanation. It's just not my kind of thing. It's boring to me...as most trip hop is. It lacks soul and warmth imo. I think it says something when a recording makes perfect background music in a restaurant.

    I don't not like it, it doesn't even inspire that deep a feeling. The technical aspect is neither here nor there if the music doesn't resonate with me. I know there are people who love the music on this record, but if almost 20 years after the fact, the most interesting and talked-about aspect of it is the technical wizardy...well...

  • HarveyCanalHarveyCanal "a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
    yuichi said:
    For goodness sakes, Endtroducing would easily make Vice Mag's top 10 electronica albums of all-time.


    How are you even considering it to be "electronica"?

  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
    HarveyCanal said:
    yuichi said:
    For goodness sakes, Endtroducing would easily make Vice Mag's top 10 electronica albums of all-time.


    How are you even considering it to be "electronica"?

    WHY ELECTRONICA SUCKS IN '96

  • dammsdamms 704 Posts
    Changeling
    Napalm Brain/Scatter Brain

    that is all

  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
    damms said:
    Napalm Brain/Scatter Brain

    my shit

  • DustedDonDustedDon 830 Posts
    This album is an incredible listen after a powerful hit of a lysergic drenched blotter or at least it was back in 2001.

  • yuichiyuichi Urban sprawl 11,329 Posts
    HarveyCanal said:
    yuichi said:
    For goodness sakes, Endtroducing would easily make Vice Mag's top 10 electronica albums of all-time.


    How are you even considering it to be "electronica"?

    Didn't bleep on your sarcasm meter eh? =P For the record, I'm not even the biggest Shadow fan. Whatevs.

  • yuichiyuichi Urban sprawl 11,329 Posts
    bassie said:
    I don't have a deep or profound explanation. It's just not my kind of thing. It's boring to me...as most trip hop is. It lacks soul and warmth imo. I think it says something when a recording makes perfect background music in a restaurant.

    I don't not like it, it doesn't even inspire that deep a feeling. The technical aspect is neither here nor there if the music doesn't resonate with me. I know there are people who love the music on this record, but if almost 20 years after the fact, the most interesting and talked-about aspect of it is the technical wizardy...well...

    I personally cherish music that makes perfect background music....Tortoise 'milllions now living..' to me, is a really dope record, but it also can make really good background music....it's unobtrusive, it has a calming effect, it's meditative in a way. A lot of music is just the opposite, which I don't mind at all. Dark, cold, and lacking you warmth can often be the case with trip-hop like you say, but those might be the exact characteristics that make a record like Endtroducing so damn influential among kids that are seeking that kind of "edge" in their music. l think the record actually has a lot of soul/attitude, albeit a different kind than say a punk/rap/r&b record.

  • yuichiyuichi Urban sprawl 11,329 Posts
    Most viewed of the top 100 so far....love it or hate it...can't deny it.

  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
    yuichi said:
    Most viewed of the top 100 so far....love it or hate it...can't deny it.

    On You Tube!!!!

  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
    yuichi said:
    bassie said:
    I don't have a deep or profound explanation. It's just not my kind of thing. It's boring to me...as most trip hop is. It lacks soul and warmth imo. I think it says something when a recording makes perfect background music in a restaurant.

    I don't not like it, it doesn't even inspire that deep a feeling. The technical aspect is neither here nor there if the music doesn't resonate with me. I know there are people who love the music on this record, but if almost 20 years after the fact, the most interesting and talked-about aspect of it is the technical wizardy...well...

    I personally cherish music that makes perfect background music....Tortoise 'milllions now living..' to me, is a really dope record, but it also can make really good background music....it's unobtrusive, it has a calming effect, it's meditative in a way. A lot of music is just the opposite, which I don't mind at all. Dark, cold, and lacking you warmth can often be the case with trip-hop like you say, but those might be the exact characteristics that make a record like Endtroducing so damn influential among kids that are seeking that kind of "edge" in their music. l think the record actually has a lot of soul/attitude, albeit a different kind than say a punk/rap/r&b record.

    I dont party.

  • yuichiyuichi Urban sprawl 11,329 Posts
    MIDNIGHT IN AN IMPERFECT WORLD.

    THANK YOU FOR YOUR ALWAYS INSIGHTFUL CONTRIBUTIONS YOUn...Err WILD PARTY ANIMAL YOUUUU.


  • bassiebassie 11,710 Posts
    yuichi said:
    bassie said:
    I don't have a deep or profound explanation. It's just not my kind of thing. It's boring to me...as most trip hop is. It lacks soul and warmth imo. I think it says something when a recording makes perfect background music in a restaurant.

    I don't not like it, it doesn't even inspire that deep a feeling. The technical aspect is neither here nor there if the music doesn't resonate with me. I know there are people who love the music on this record, but if almost 20 years after the fact, the most interesting and talked-about aspect of it is the technical wizardy...well...

    I personally cherish music that makes perfect background music....Tortoise 'milllions now living..' to me, is a really dope record, but it also can make really good background music....it's unobtrusive, it has a calming effect, it's meditative in a way. A lot of music is just the opposite, which I don't mind at all. Dark, cold, and lacking you warmth can often be the case with trip-hop like you say, but those might be the exact characteristics that make a record like Endtroducing so damn influential among kids that are seeking that kind of "edge" in their music. l think the record actually has a lot of soul/attitude, albeit a different kind than say a punk/rap/r&b record.

    I almost stopped reading after the opening sentence, but that would have been unfair and rude. We all have different relationships with music and what role it plays in our lives. Differences make the world go round type shit.

  • jamesjames chicago 1,863 Posts
    You know, I like this record fair amount (though not nearly as much as Private Press), but I think it's one of those ones that's kinda impossible to get into after the fact. If you first heard it back when it was just another cool new record, it's more likely to sit better with you. If you heard it later, after its rep began inflating, you're probably either gonna like it way too much or feel unduly let down.

    I guess that's some of why I'm okay with it still. I didn't go into it with a chip on my shoulder, nor did I go into it thinking it was gonna change my life. It was just some cool shit I heard over at my man Brock's house right around the time it came out, and so I went to Rainbow Records and had them order me a copy. I picked it up a few days later--along with, I think, a used cd single of K-Ci & Jojo's "You Bring Me Up"--and there it was. No big deal.

    I think there's a lot of great records that you'll only really get if you're able to somehow divorce them from their reputation (which, in this day and age, is edging toward impossible), and like I said, I think this is one of them.

    I guess one could argue that the fact that it comes with some contextual strings attached makes it a less worthy record, but I disagree. I'd say the same thing about, for example, Sign O' The Times; if you never heard "U Got The Look" on contemporary radio, chances are good that you're gonna end up liking that album either too much or too little.

    I think being able to experience a record in something close to a normal context with normal expectations is always good for perspective. Not always necessary, and not always possibe, but always good.

  • yuichiyuichi Urban sprawl 11,329 Posts
    bassie said:
    yuichi said:
    bassie said:
    I don't have a deep or profound explanation. It's just not my kind of thing. It's boring to me...as most trip hop is. It lacks soul and warmth imo. I think it says something when a recording makes perfect background music in a restaurant.

    I don't not like it, it doesn't even inspire that deep a feeling. The technical aspect is neither here nor there if the music doesn't resonate with me. I know there are people who love the music on this record, but if almost 20 years after the fact, the most interesting and talked-about aspect of it is the technical wizardy...well...

    I personally cherish music that makes perfect background music....Tortoise 'milllions now living..' to me, is a really dope record, but it also can make really good background music....it's unobtrusive, it has a calming effect, it's meditative in a way. A lot of music is just the opposite, which I don't mind at all. Dark, cold, and lacking you warmth can often be the case with trip-hop like you say, but those might be the exact characteristics that make a record like Endtroducing so damn influential among kids that are seeking that kind of "edge" in their music. l think the record actually has a lot of soul/attitude, albeit a different kind than say a punk/rap/r&b record.

    I almost stopped reading after the opening sentence, but that would have been unfair and rude. We all have different relationships with music and what role it plays in our lives. Differences make the world go round type shit.

    It may sound softbatch, but I prefer the mellow stuff in the house after work, compared to louder stuff in the car. There's a time and place for everything is all i'm saying. Would you expect a restaurant to play some Wu-tang or avant-jazz?
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