$500 on a rap record: who’s buying?

mannybolone

I have a question for Phill Most or anyone else who can break this down. I was chatting about this with Cool Chris today and we were discussing that we can understand some over 40 dude throwing down crazy money on a psych LP or northern soul 45 but who are these folks spending loot on hip-hop records?Age?Race?Nationality?I think it's insanely awesome that Phil can get 500+ for his EP but seriously, who is that dude who says, "ok, sure, I'll drop $800 on it." I know, I know, collector's logic is not necessarily logical but enquiring minds really want to know.

peacefulrotation

DJ related collectables are hot right now. Look at disco, electro and early house.

mylatency

peacefulrotation

Also, competition for exclusives/authenticity.



I think a lot of these kids are soon approaching 40, including us.

mcdee

i know what youre saying but. this actually makes sense to me, isnt hiphop a bigger and more popular form of music than say, jazz, psych and northern soul? isnt it kinda strange that we dont think the other way around? it should be logical to pay up for hiphop raers and strange to pay for those psych, jazz, northern raers? hope this made sense, been awake for 20 hours im probably starting to hallucinate any second now if i dont go to bed!

mylatency

I know what you're saying, but this actually makes sense to me. Hiphop is a bigger and more popular form of music today[/b] than, jazz, psych, northern soul, and funk combined. It's kind of strange that we don't think of hiphop as a hot commodity! It's logical for me to pay for hiphop raers today while also paying for those psych and funk raers. Hope this made sense, I've been awake for 20 hours working on this beat. Some crazy shit ... like breakbeat ... well I been like takin' it to some next level shit ... like I'll take that and put a delay on it so it's ... [slaps table rhythmically and drum-talks to demonstrate] ... so it's involving [sic] the beat so it sounds hella large in the mix ... know what i'm sayin'?

Grafwritah

Bsides

I really dont see why rap would be any different. Especially shit from the era in question. Small labels, limited runs, all that. It is an artifact from a time when hip hop was emerging from a local phenomenon to the massive cultural force that it is today.

Look at a record like Rocket 88 or something with rock collectors. WHats important about it is its historical context.

I think more than any nostalgic factor, its actually kids that werent there for the old school. People that are serious about this music and feel compelled to collect such things in order to feel closer to the source.


I can see this market only getting bigger with time.

mcdee

I know what you're saying, but this actually makes sense to me. Hiphop is a bigger and more popular form of music today[/b] than, jazz, psych, northern soul, and funk combined. It's kind of strange that we don't think of hiphop as a hot commodity! It's logical for me to pay for hiphop raers today while also paying for those psych, jazz, and funk raers. Hope this made sense, I've been awake for 20 hours working on this beat. Some crazy shit ... like breakbeat ... well I been like takin' it to some next level shit ... like I'll take that and put a delay on it so it's ... [slaps table rhythmically and drum-talks to demonstrate] ... so it's involving [sic] the beat so it sounds hella large in the mix ... know what i'm sayin'?

haha

did i see a



reference in there?

mannybolone

I hear what ya'll are saying but at the same time, people aren't quite yet paying thousands of dollars for hip-hop records, even if they are as rare as any northern or psych record. I mean, there are collectors like - yes, Josh - but in general, it's not like we've seen hip hop albums or singles start to command, on a regular basis, over $500 with regularity. I mean, all things considered, the number of rap-related items that would sell over that amount is probably limited to a dozen or so items.

So maybe it's just a matter of time before we get there. However, you can routinely see northern soul go for thousands of dollars (hello Moments!) Therefore, if there are rap collectors willing to pony up, are they of the same kind of mentality as other genre collectors? Or different?

Sun_Fortune

Man fuck Sofia Coppola and her bullshit movie. Everybody is an idiot but her more attractive doppleganger. Googie on the other hand...

Brian

I think it also might be an issue of age. The records that command higher prices tend to be bit older than a random rap record released in the late 70's/early 80's. I'm sure when rap is older, you will have people spending money on it like Northern Soul 45's.

Grafwritah

who are these folks spending loot on hip-hop CDs[/b]?

mylatency

different

[my 2 cents:]





To put it bluntly: Generally, very few people with the cash care about hip hop/rap raers and those who actually do care don't have the cash.[/b]



Of course there are exceptions, but also factor in (concurrent) legit reissues, boots, the internet and you have a market that will almost never happen.



I think many of those northern, funk, soul and other raers have sold for $$$$ because of competition for those original raer copies amongst those with fat pockets means real big bucks. Why this will never happen (again) for hip hop/rap has to do with the basic collectibilty of the music. You also have to factor in what I call the "kids music" factor. Old headz don't listen to today's stuff, and young people today don't listen to 80's rap (on the whole). Plus, the genre is mutating at high speeds and daily, readily available digital files/boots means most people who care about the music can get it one way or another. They could care less about a $500 LP or 12" when they don't even own a turntable or never owned one in the first place (hello iPod).



Thus, you have a market that will never evar be the same as the mid to late 90's, hahaha.





[/my 2 cents.]

mylatency

I'm sure when rap is older, you will have people spending a small amount of money to access a digital archive where they can quickly download the song into their brain in the year 2100.

Grafwritah

I'm sure when rap is older, you will have people spending a small amount of money to access a digital archive where they can quickly download the song into their brain in the year 2100.

Whatever, I will just get the contents of my brain compressed as an MPEG and stored on my iPod. Shake but no skip, nah'm?

mylatency

I think more than any nostalgic factor, its actually kids that werent there for the old school. People that are serious about this music and feel compelled to collect such things in order to feel closer to the source.

I think this is an anomaly. I think the number of people who "feel compelled to collect such things" is limited to about the number of people who have registered for this board and maybe Okayplayer.com. No joke.

I can see this market only getting bigger with time.

Wanna make a $1 bet and see who's right in about 10-20 years?

Grafwritah

I think this is an anomaly. I think the number of people who "feel compelled to collect such things" is limited to about the number of people who have registered for this board and maybe Okayplayer.com. No joke.

+ the-breaks.com


that's it.

mylatency

thanks, I forgot about those kids

mylatency

who are these folks spending loot on hip-hop CDs[/b]?

older headz with phat pockets, cos they don't care about wax, but they care about the music (and don't have the means to download)



THE DIGITAL AGE IS UPON US!





....many gang-related CDs may also have high bids due to the gang affiliation and members bidding....

Phill_Most

I have a question for Phill Most or anyone else who can break this down. I was chatting about this with Cool Chris today and we were discussing that we can understand some over 40 dude throwing down crazy money on a psych LP or northern soul 45 but who are these folks spending loot on hip-hop records?

Age?
Race?
Nationality?

I think it's insanely awesome that Phil can get 500+ for his EP but seriously, who is that dude who says, "ok, sure, I'll drop $800 on it." I know, I know, collector's logic is not necessarily logical but enquiring minds really want to know.

Oliver, from my experience selling OG copies of the "On Tempo Jack" 12", we are basically talking about a very small group of hardcore collectors who are just willing to go all out to get as many raers as possible. Many of them do a lot of selling and trading, as well as buying (hence the disposable income, I suppose). A lot of the interest for my record has come from Japan, although I've sold some here in the states, too. I don't think any of the non-Japanese buyers were black dudes- just guessing, I would say they were mostly 30-something white dudes. I have always gotten the feeling that although I'm sure most of the buyers do actually enjoy the music, there are also some who view it as an investment more than anything else. I could be wrong about that, though.

I was as shocked as anyone to see my record and other "random rap" titles fetching such gaudy prices, but I'm WAY more shocked to see psych records and northern soul records sell for thousands of dollars. An $800 hip hop record is nothing compared to what the most in-demand psych and northern soul goes for. What's up with THAT?

jinx74

just chiming in to say:

yall need to step off of joshs dick... bunch of newbie fucking digging hatters... make me fucking sick you fucking rookies... if he bothers your fucking asses so fucking much why dont you make some fucking moves yourself?

pussies

Risingson

I think it's insanely awesome that Phil can get 500+ for his EP but seriously, who is that dude who says, "ok, sure, I'll drop $800 on it." I know, I know, collector's logic is not necessarily logical but enquiring minds really want to know.

well, i dropped the $570 on On Tempo Jack simply because I've been after an OG copy for a few years, not for the sake of having the record but because its dope and i love hip hop and wanted to add it to the crates plus its not something that comes up all that often. I don't go around everyday of the week droppin that kind of loot on records but every now and then it is required in order to add that special gem to the collection.

tripledouble

let em know!



(also you supported a good cause)

jinx74

nah, see the pets thread..

naw, id rather just believe that you REALLY like the Roadrunner. its more fun for me that way

faux_rillz

I hear what ya'll are saying but at the same time, people aren't quite yet paying thousands of dollars for hip-hop records, even if they are as rare as any northern or psych record. I mean, there are collectors like - yes, Josh - but in general, it's not like we've seen hip hop albums or singles start to command, on a regular basis, over $500 with regularity. I mean, all things considered, the number of rap-related items that would sell over that amount is probably limited to a dozen or so items.

So maybe it's just a matter of time before we get there. However, you can routinely see northern soul go for thousands of dollars (hello Moments!) Therefore, if there are rap collectors willing to pony up, are they of the same kind of mentality as other genre collectors? Or different?

I hear what you're saying, Oliver.

The basic factors that contribute to high prices on Northern Soul 45s also apply to rap rarities, but the demographic that the latter appeals to is less monied. I wouldn't be shocked to learn that one or more of the older white partners at my firm collected Northern Soul on the low, but I would be pretty surprised to hear that any of those guys had spent $500 on a copy of On Tempo Jack or $300 on a Deco D CD.

faux_rillz

I think more than any nostalgic factor, its actually kids that werent there for the old school. People that are serious about this music and feel compelled to collect such things in order to feel closer to the source.

I think this is an anomaly. I think the number of people who "feel compelled to collect such things" is limited to about the number of people who have registered for this board and maybe Okayplayer.com. No joke.

There are a lot of people over at www.okayplayer.com, Mark, but none of them know anything about records.

Bsides

I mean, people will pay a shitload of money for just about anything.


Arent there people paying 500 dollars for pez dispensers and shit? I mean, its hardly shocking.

Bsides

and if you paid over 500 bucks for phil's record in a heatrock auction, Id say you're the man!

BELIEVE

So maybe it's just a matter of time before we get there. However, you can routinely see northern soul go for thousands of dollars (hello Moments!) Therefore, if there are rap collectors willing to pony up, are they of the same kind of mentality as other genre collectors? Or different?

I think the price spike of certain rap records can largely be atributed to the canonization or "blessing" of records that has happened through the publication of Freddy Fresh's book, Wax Poetics, Ego Trip, Spine Mag's former rarities section, etc. Records that were rarely seen/heard were suddenly deemed "rare/good" and were instantly sought-after "pieces."

I tend to think that there's always a healthy audience of collectors (of any kind) who are hungry to spend big money on good/rare items...they just desperately need/want to know *what* to buy. Fuzz Acid & Flowers and other guides have allowed those who buy/collect psych to get their "RIYL" on and drop major money for an LP without ever hearing a single note off the record.

I don't think any of this is a bad thing, really...it's just how things get done. but I'd love to hear other people's thoughts on the matter.

ariel_calmer

I believe the people who are buying this stuff aren't the original consumers of it. Records as consumables vs. collectables are becoming two different worlds. It used to be that the people who collected, say, beatles, were the guys who liked beatles in their childhood. Now you get people who buy records for reasons other than it was that toy they never got to have. New collectors are really into the music, they want something unusual to listen to, they need a certain collectable to make their life complete, they're a different beast. Hell I wasn't alive when most of this stuff was recorded, and that probably is true for most board members here.

Plus, generally I think 45s are more desirable as objects and a rap 12" will never reach that level, at least not multiple thousands of dollars. I think it's less a $ issue (which is a little racist to assume that there aren't any black folks with an extra $500 to blow) but rather like mylatency said that in hip-hop there's less of an emphasis on the status of original pressings and the market for this stuff is so new. And I'm not talking about about you need an og copy to sample, I mean the real library/collector mentality of your average music obsessive.

So you have people out of touch with the history of the music itself, quickly changing tastes, and a highly competitive field. Plus the number of taste-makers for this stuff (the giles, shadows, and geralds of the world) is ridiculously small. This equals a lot of price fluctuation and genres that come in and out of vogue quickly, but not necessarily a constant demand that will sustain a thousand-dollar record over 10 years.

I'm really interested in modern fluctuations of musical preferences. To the point I'm writing a research paper on it for grad school. I'd love to hear what people really thing is going on.