I'm not a big believer in the bible....it has some cool stories....but in real life if some righteous little dude was throwing rocks at some powerful giant he would get stomped out and be forgotten....the real lesson there is don't pick a fight you have no chance of winning........life is not fair.
I'm not a big believer in the bible....it has some cool stories....but in real life if some righteous little dude was throwing rocks at some powerful giant he would get stomped out and be forgotten....the real lesson there is don't pick a fight you have no chance of winning........life is not fair.
Nelson Mandela was some sort of fucking idiot, I guess. What were the odds that he would succeed?
Your message to people like him seems to be, "Kiss ass and learn to get along, because at least you won't get stomped."
There's got to be a limit - some sort of level of degradation and submission people aren't willing to accept and are willing to die in order to fight back against. Everything I've read about Gaza tells me living there exceeds that limit.
Yes, they'll almost certainly be crushed for years to come. In the long run, though, I don't believe Israel can keep the clampdown going. The choice will be turning into a more grotesque version of Boer-era South Africa or working something out. The latter doesn't happen unless the Palestinians keep resisting in some way.
I'm not a big believer in the bible....it has some cool stories....but in real life if some righteous little dude was throwing rocks at some powerful giant he would get stomped out and be forgotten....the real lesson there is don't pick a fight you have no chance of winning........life is not fair.
Nelson Mandela was some sort of fucking idiot, I guess. What were the odds that he would succeed?
Your message to people like him seems to be, "Kiss ass and learn to get along, because at least you won't get stomped."
There's got to be a limit - some sort of level of degradation and submission people aren't willing to accept and are willing to die in order to fight back against. Everything I've read about Gaza tells me living there exceeds that limit.
Yes, they'll almost certainly be crushed for years to come. In the long run, though, I don't believe Israel can keep the clampdown going. The choice will be turning into a more grotesque version of Boer-era South Africa or working something out. The latter doesn't happen unless the Palestinians keep resisting in some way.
I can't believe I'm doing this, but I agree 100%
And not just that, but your post is decently written, too.
Huh...
DocMcCoy"Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,913 Posts
I'm not a big believer in the bible....it has some cool stories....but in real life if some righteous little dude was throwing rocks at some powerful giant he would get stomped out and be forgotten....the real lesson there is don't pick a fight you have no chance of winning........life is not fair.
Nelson Mandela was some sort of fucking idiot, I guess. What were the odds that he would succeed?
Your message to people like him seems to be, "Kiss ass and learn to get along, because at least you won't get stomped."
There's got to be a limit - some sort of level of degradation and submission people aren't willing to accept and are willing to die in order to fight back against. Everything I've read about Gaza tells me living there exceeds that limit.
Yes, they'll almost certainly be crushed for years to come. In the long run, though, I don't believe Israel can keep the clampdown going. The choice will be turning into a more grotesque version of Boer-era South Africa or working something out. The latter doesn't happen unless the Palestinians keep resisting in some way.
I can't believe I'm doing this, but I agree 100%
And not just that, but your post is decently written, too.
Huh...
Cootie transfer accomplished.
Even the hardest of hardline Israeli wingnuts must know that their current policy is doomed in the long run. I just don't know how any of them think they'll get out of it. Maybe they're Rick Perry-level dumb and we just can't believe that idiots like that can ascend in Israel, too.
"Comparing the ANC to Hamas is not a false equivalency"
......someone who sounds a lot like Dick Cheney
But that was a well written defense of a cute little bible story. And of course in the history of mankind a David beating a Goliath has been the rule, not the exception. And life is fair on Gumdrop Island.
My post was not supporting Israel nor a condemnation of Hamas, but just an assertion of an ugly factual history vs. a utopian religious fairy tale where right defeats might.
Very interesting, People tend to follow news media that already reflects their standpoint - folks generally want ratification of their own opinions rather than analysis that challenges their perception. That's why Daily Mail readers exist.
Very interesting, People tend to follow news media that already reflects their standpoint - folks generally want ratification of their own opinions rather than analysis that challenges their perception. That's why Daily Mail readers exist.
Exactly. We like to believe we're all free thinkers immune to things like confirmation bias, but none of us are, not really.
When I was a foreign desk hack it never ceased to amaze me how many different spins could be put on the same bare facts wire service stub, depending on which paper you saw the next day. Same source, radically different interpretations. Or 'house style' as they call it.
Very interesting, People tend to follow news media that already reflects their standpoint - folks generally want ratification of their own opinions rather than analysis that challenges their perception. That's why Daily Mail readers exist.
Exactly. We like to believe we're all free thinkers immune to things like confirmation bias, but none of us are, not really.
Very interesting, People tend to follow news media that already reflects their standpoint - folks generally want ratification of their own opinions rather than analysis that challenges their perception. That's why Daily Mail readers exist.
Exactly. We like to believe we're all free thinkers immune to things like confirmation bias, but none of us are, not really.
Very cool article, and not (ironically?) without its own biases.
It's real easy to tell who the free thinkers are these days....they are the folks who are hated by both sides of the political divide.
DocMcCoy"Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,913 Posts
Rockadelic said:
It's real easy to tell who the free thinkers are these days....they are the folks who are hated by both sides of the political divide.
That's what I always say about the BBC - if they're upsetting both the left and the right (and they often are), then they're probably doing exactly what they're supposed to be doing.
It's real easy to tell who the free thinkers are these days....they are the folks who are hated by both sides of the political divide.
That's what I always say about the BBC - if they're upsetting both the left and the right (and they often are), then they're probably doing exactly what they're supposed to be doing.
sure but the idea that "both sides" should be weighted/represented equally through these news outlets is a dangerous one.
not all views on all subjects are equally valid. decent people would have been rightly outraged had CNN sought out an al Qaeda spokesman to speak alongside a rep from the US gov't following the 9/11 attacks.
to offer another example, large swaths of my country and the politicians who represent them believe in a magic man in the sky who created the universe. to the extent that this belief informs their political positions, I don't view those political positions as deserving of equal support or air time as those based on empirical evidence and formulated with a view toward the common good.
Media and the journalists should never report "both sides equally". The should report the unbiased truth.
DocMcCoy"Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,913 Posts
rootlesscosmo said:
DocMcCoy said:
Rockadelic said:
It's real easy to tell who the free thinkers are these days....they are the folks who are hated by both sides of the political divide.
That's what I always say about the BBC - if they're upsetting both the left and the right (and they often are), then they're probably doing exactly what they're supposed to be doing.
sure but the idea that "both sides" should be weighted/represented equally through these news outlets is a dangerous one.
not all views on all subjects are equally valid. decent people would have been rightly outraged had CNN sought out an al Qaeda spokesman to speak alongside a rep from the US gov't following the 9/11 attacks.
to offer another example, large swaths of my country and the politicians who represent them believe in a magic man in the sky who created the universe. to the extent that this belief informs their political positions, I don't view those political positions as deserving of equal support or air time as those based on empirical evidence and formulated with a view toward the common good.
Yeah, I agree with your broader point, but I think that in the case of the BBC, people often confuse impartial reporting with balance. BBC News is required to report impartially under the terms of the Royal Charter (although they're constantly accused of bias from all sides of the political spectrum), but they're under no obligation to exhibit quote-unquote balance. By which I mean tin-foil hatters like Alex Jones or David Icke (a former BBC employee) don't get the same airtime to bang on about the Rothschilds and the Illuminati as a counter to the corporation's Middle East editor covering things that actually happen.
not all views on all subjects are equally valid. decent people would have been rightly outraged had CNN sought out an al Qaeda spokesman to speak alongside a rep from the US gov't following the 9/11 attacks.
After 9/11 people were asking 'why do they hate us?'.
CNN reporters, govt officials, pundits were all asking.
An al Qaeda spokesperson could have answered that question for us.
The last march in London included numerous Jews - so there's some critical thinking going on outside of Israel, while within, the support for the current hostilities is either at 93% or 97%. This is doubtless because Israeli coverage focuses on the fatalities of just one side.
and this ridiculous remark is doubtless because you don't read Israeli coverage.
Not exhaustively no, but I had read that Israeli coverage was partisan and preferred to believe this could be behind the near unanimous support for war. There must be other reasons.
You read that?
Ok.
A more recent article saying exactly the same thing...
This sort of self-critical vigilance is rare but understandable given the sort of reporting that goes on in the mainstream media in Israel. Most newspapers and TV channels are simply cheerleaders for the government line, offering a constant diet of fear and fallen heroes, with little evidence of any of the atrocities going on in Gaza. The problem is, ordinary Israelis have little idea what has been going on. I know so much more about what is happening in Gaza when I'm sitting in London than I do in Tel Aviv. Under this level of information manipulation, how can ordinary Israelis be expected to be critical?
Comments
I don't think this one goes in favor of Hamas.
about half of them make no sense at all.
there was?
man did they say some stupid things in 600AD or what?
Some one mentioned it once some time I am sure.
Nelson Mandela was some sort of fucking idiot, I guess. What were the odds that he would succeed?
Your message to people like him seems to be, "Kiss ass and learn to get along, because at least you won't get stomped."
There's got to be a limit - some sort of level of degradation and submission people aren't willing to accept and are willing to die in order to fight back against. Everything I've read about Gaza tells me living there exceeds that limit.
Yes, they'll almost certainly be crushed for years to come. In the long run, though, I don't believe Israel can keep the clampdown going. The choice will be turning into a more grotesque version of Boer-era South Africa or working something out. The latter doesn't happen unless the Palestinians keep resisting in some way.
I can't believe I'm doing this, but I agree 100%
And not just that, but your post is decently written, too.
Huh...
Cootie transfer accomplished.
Even the hardest of hardline Israeli wingnuts must know that their current policy is doomed in the long run. I just don't know how any of them think they'll get out of it. Maybe they're Rick Perry-level dumb and we just can't believe that idiots like that can ascend in Israel, too.
But the jury is definitely out on that question.
......someone who sounds a lot like Dick Cheney
But that was a well written defense of a cute little bible story. And of course in the history of mankind a David beating a Goliath has been the rule, not the exception. And life is fair on Gumdrop Island.
My post was not supporting Israel nor a condemnation of Hamas, but just an assertion of an ugly factual history vs. a utopian religious fairy tale where right defeats might.
Very interesting, People tend to follow news media that already reflects their standpoint - folks generally want ratification of their own opinions rather than analysis that challenges their perception. That's why Daily Mail readers exist.
Exactly. We like to believe we're all free thinkers immune to things like confirmation bias, but none of us are, not really.
That's why I read soulstrut.
Very cool article, and not (ironically?) without its own biases.
That's what I always say about the BBC - if they're upsetting both the left and the right (and they often are), then they're probably doing exactly what they're supposed to be doing.
sure but the idea that "both sides" should be weighted/represented equally through these news outlets is a dangerous one.
not all views on all subjects are equally valid. decent people would have been rightly outraged had CNN sought out an al Qaeda spokesman to speak alongside a rep from the US gov't following the 9/11 attacks.
to offer another example, large swaths of my country and the politicians who represent them believe in a magic man in the sky who created the universe. to the extent that this belief informs their political positions, I don't view those political positions as deserving of equal support or air time as those based on empirical evidence and formulated with a view toward the common good.
Yeah, I agree with your broader point, but I think that in the case of the BBC, people often confuse impartial reporting with balance. BBC News is required to report impartially under the terms of the Royal Charter (although they're constantly accused of bias from all sides of the political spectrum), but they're under no obligation to exhibit quote-unquote balance. By which I mean tin-foil hatters like Alex Jones or David Icke (a former BBC employee) don't get the same airtime to bang on about the Rothschilds and the Illuminati as a counter to the corporation's Middle East editor covering things that actually happen.
Does this happen on the utopian 'gumdrop island' you mentioned earlier, too?
After 9/11 people were asking 'why do they hate us?'.
CNN reporters, govt officials, pundits were all asking.
An al Qaeda spokesperson could have answered that question for us.
A more recent article saying exactly the same thing...
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/06/gaza-israel-movement-that-dare-not-speak-its-name
Giles Fraser in Tel Aviv