it's a tough spot man
I've been there trying to help a lot of the youth hovering around the center i worked in
it's tough because you can take them far but the change has to come from them
and you don't have time nor is it your role to play the father
i've helped kids get bus boy jobs, enroll bakc in high school (even when late) and everything seemed fine, they appreciated the changes
and then a month later they quit everything again
you got to get his interests involved and small goal with some rewarding short term feedback
he has got to admit that he needs a change or to be more proactive and you need to offer advice, be on his ass but let him accomplish the steps and make the decisions. Get the mom involved but he can't feel like this is project for him.
You make it seem like your just there to offer some guidance on a plan he devised when in actuality
you are the mastermind that has alligned him in the right direction given him a push and cheer him on from the sidelines and then ask for results too...a lot of roles to fill and a lot of frustration to be had..best of luck man
giving him examples of older kids still bumming on the park bench everyday is something that always works for me(nah man i won't be like that i will...etc..etc) and then asking for his way of getting to where he says he will be in 3 years...
Yeah I was being a little silly but it would be the best way to find out if
a) he's a psychopath
or
b) he's clinically depressed
or
c) he's just got self esteem issues.
Or maybe he's just a lazy dude with no one who ever made him get off his ass.
Sween has the answer...kid needs to at least be told to either get a job or go sign up with Uncle Sam..and he held to it.
Having a kid do chores occasionally is like having a fat kid go on a walk a couple times a month. Neither activity will have any long-term impact unless it's accompanied by other lifestyle, diet and attitude changes.
Calling him out on his lack of motivation is good first step, though. Mother sounds like she needs a kick in the ass as well.
Yeah I was being a little silly but it would be the best way to find out if
a) he's a psychopath
or
b) he's clinically depressed
or
c) he's just got self esteem issues.
Or maybe he's just a lazy dude with no one who ever made him get off his ass.
Sween has the answer...kid needs to at least be told to either get a job or go sign up with Uncle Sam..and he held to it.
not sure about nyc, but here in philly Youthbuild is a decent organization that helps dropouts get their GED as well as trade skills in the construction and nursing fields. probably better than some self (un)regimented study schedule between xbox tournaments
hats off to you Bat. hope his mom appreciates your concern
I was going to suggest this too. I had a bunch of these jobs during the summers in high school and first year or so in college. A lot of my boys were sleeping all day, and while I'd be out with them all night, I knew I'd be clearing plates at 3pm the next day. Definitely motivated me a couple years later to work my ass off, on some "I never want to work in a restaurant again" steez.
Hats off batmon, hope your effort with the dude pays off and is appreciated, if only down the line.
* Get him to paint the apartment - There is nothing like prepping and painting an entire interior for the first time to get a handle on just how difficult real life shit is.
THEN
* Insist that whatever you pay him half will be invested in shares in his name, get him a broker and show him the ropes.
Pay him fairly (for his age and experience) and ride his ass on quality and speed related issues. Drop knowledge nuggets while you watch him work sipping Courvoisier in your underoos.
Cleaning is a nowhere move, he needs to bleed and sacrifice.
P.S If you've been thinking about renovating your bathroom now is the time, tile removal will fuck his world up.
I know being into wrestling is akin to giving up on life, but it could be helpful to get him out of the house. If he's living in the NY area, there's plenty of indie promotions (not backyard wrestling) he could go see. ROH/Chikara/Dragongate/PWG etc. Maybe he could get involved and sell tickets for some smaller promotion or learn to referee or something. Just steer clear of all the scumbags.
unless he is living with some form of mental of physical infirmity, little honey needs to get off his ass and do work. nevermind about the amount of 'enablers' in his life, this little turd is the embodiment of everything that is wrong with us as a society.
there is no solution outside of tell the little fucker to get a job or go to school and do that shit like a job. if neither of those speak to him, then it's time to smack him around for a while until he sees the light.
i was working at a group home a couple years ago, and while i was on a scaffolding above, i heard three young males talking about how 'the system' is 'designed to make me fail' and how the 'economy is in a downturn'... that type shit.... when another resident walked up and told them 'if you can't find a job by the time the sun goes down today, then your got bigger problems then a poor economy'.... this is coming from a person living in assisted living. deep down they know that they're taking advantage of everyone around them and deserve to be made accountable in one way or another.
If anyone has first hand success stories of "tough love" I am genuinely interested to hear them. My younger ended up in the Army on some "need some structure" type shit and got out in exactly the same place. I don't think the army "fixes" people, either you have your shit together before you go in, and come out with a plan, or you don't have your shit together and you don't come out with a plan.
If anyone has first hand success stories of "tough love" I am genuinely interested to hear them. My younger ended up in the Army on some "need some structure" type shit and got out in exactly the same place. I don't think the army "fixes" people, either you have your shit together before you go in, and come out with a plan, or you don't have your shit together and you don't come out with a plan.
Is telling an 18 year old that they need to get off their ass and get a job, with joining the Service as one option, instead of sleeping and playing XBox all day really "tough love"?
Seems to me that this is simply the reality of being an adult.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
If anyone has first hand success stories of "tough love" I am genuinely interested to hear them. My younger ended up in the Army on some "need some structure" type shit and got out in exactly the same place. I don't think the army "fixes" people, either you have your shit together before you go in, and come out with a plan, or you don't have your shit together and you don't come out with a plan.
Is telling an 18 year old that they need to get off their ass and get a job, with joining the Service as one option, instead of sleeping and playing XBox all day really "tough love"?
Seems to me that this is simply the reality of being an adult.
My pops joined the service on his own and wasnt goaded into it. He realized himself that shit wasnt right at 17 and got the fuck outta Harlem.
Different America then.
Tuff love i think depends on the situation. One style of Full Metal Jacket Sargent steez might not reach every kid.
Id rather see my kid coached by Greg Popovich and Larry Brown than George Karl and Mike D'Antoni.
if nothing else, the military tends to get you in good physical shape, on a very disciplined schedule and forces hygiene and order in your personal space. some people are taught specific trades (my dad learned electrical engineering when he was in) and then there's some tuition help when you get out. not the worst situation for couch potato drop outs.
job corps and americorps also offer some decent programs that can get kids out of their immediate environment of stagnation and into some training and general usefulness. americorps almost definitely necessitates a high school degree
Hes dumb scurred of the mIlitary. That would be a complete shock.
If he couldnt labor at a construction site i doubt hes had the dna to acclimate himself to being told what to do all the time.
You never know though. Dude could embrace the machismo and fall right in during training camp.
I suggested to his mother and new boyfriend that i would give him some chores to do around my apt so he can make some pocket cash and develop some work ethic.
Hes been ringing my bell to see what the deal is but i havent thought it through yet. I thought maybe paying him to sweep and mop. Or swiffer my floors or some shit.
So then his mom called cause i wasnt answering my door. The kid is into getting some money.
BUT im like why cant YOU the mother set up an allowance for cleaning your own fuckin house. My evil kicked in.
Looks like you got good intentions, but this makes it seem like you bailed on your initial plan?
I suggested to his mother and new boyfriend that i would give him some chores to do around my apt so he can make some pocket cash and develop some work ethic.
Hes been ringing my bell to see what the deal is but i havent thought it through yet. I thought maybe paying him to sweep and mop. Or swiffer my floors or some shit.
So then his mom called cause i wasnt answering my door. The kid is into getting some money.
BUT im like why cant YOU the mother set up an allowance for cleaning your own fuckin house. My evil kicked in.
Looks like you got good intentions, but this makes it seem like you bailed on your initial plan?
I sat with him and told him the deal. And we all agreed that doing shit for me isnt a priority and getting his GED is first.
I want to echo all of the recommendations for martial arts, etc.
Boxing would be a great option for dude. Way less weirdos than wrestling and is ultra disciplined. Will be great to get his frustrations out with at first, plus give him confidence and exercise. Endorphins will clear that depression out real quick!
Oakland has this spot that I've been hearing good things about for a while: http://www.eoba.org/index.html Maybe you can find something similar in your area?
i think thats definitely priority one.
but making use of his time and getting out of the house should be big too. volunteering somewhere could be crucial. my mom forced me out of the house when i was a sullen teen and indentured me at a womens shelter. i ended up putting in a lot of hours, getting good kitchen experience and being very thankful for the privileges i enjoy with my life.
besides being useful to others, identifying some skills to learn could be a good step. whether it be trades, computers, language, musical instruments. learning skills builds pride and can teach a very valuable lesson about patience, commitment and practice paying off
unskilled people could end up working registers or shovels for life
is boxing martial arts or whatever recreational fighting a SKILL for a career?
were not talmbout an eleven year old with nothing to do. Hes 18 and should be readying himself for the workplace....IMO.
There's a lot of hours in a day. Get dude on a schedule that will keep him busy and out of the house. This will be a good boost for him while he is working on getting his GED.
bat, i think it is. almost any skill that takes time to learn and necessitates diligence and practice can help young people mature into adults. besides the significant intangibles it could lead to entry level positions working in gyms or rec centers. id say at this point, the kid just needs to solid up the basic credentials (GED), be useful (volunteer), build real skills of any sort, and look for work. if he started doing those, his mom should be thrilled and proud and keep subsidizing him for a little bit as long as he's putting 40-50 hours a week into those things. a job will come out of it soon enough. the video game, sleep all day shit should be over and out immediately.
just a thought..the kid should read some dope books/autobiographies while he's studying for GEDs. it will help his vocab, reading comp and writing for the test as well as possibly inspire and educate him. maybe you could give him books that you love and discuss with him as he goes. i'm a firm believer reading has immeasurable benefits. lots of high school students i know have never read a 200+ page book for pleasure and its a damn shame.
i truly apologize for writing so much in this thread. i hope i havent been annoying. bottom line is, the dudes most pressing need doesnt seem to be a job...he needs general motivation toward self improvement and engagement with the wider world
re volunteering:
when i ran the job training program and didnt have positions open, i would always strongly recommend volunteering. the teens would recoil in horror "you mean work for free???!" to which i would reply:
first of all, you should by all means keep looking for work. while you are looking, volunteer. perspective employers will get the impression that you arent lazy and they will have someone tangible to call for a reference. second, you can pick up workplace skills and have an experience that looks good on a resume. third, when a position does open up, you will have the inside track over other applicants and will have a pretty strong idea if the job is right for you or not.
Comments
I've been there trying to help a lot of the youth hovering around the center i worked in
it's tough because you can take them far but the change has to come from them
and you don't have time nor is it your role to play the father
i've helped kids get bus boy jobs, enroll bakc in high school (even when late) and everything seemed fine, they appreciated the changes
and then a month later they quit everything again
you got to get his interests involved and small goal with some rewarding short term feedback
he has got to admit that he needs a change or to be more proactive and you need to offer advice, be on his ass but let him accomplish the steps and make the decisions. Get the mom involved but he can't feel like this is project for him.
You make it seem like your just there to offer some guidance on a plan he devised when in actuality
you are the mastermind that has alligned him in the right direction given him a push and cheer him on from the sidelines and then ask for results too...a lot of roles to fill and a lot of frustration to be had..best of luck man
giving him examples of older kids still bumming on the park bench everyday is something that always works for me(nah man i won't be like that i will...etc..etc) and then asking for his way of getting to where he says he will be in 3 years...
Or maybe he's just a lazy dude with no one who ever made him get off his ass.
Sween has the answer...kid needs to at least be told to either get a job or go sign up with Uncle Sam..and he held to it.
Calling him out on his lack of motivation is good first step, though. Mother sounds like she needs a kick in the ass as well.
hats off to you Bat. hope his mom appreciates your concern
I was going to suggest this too. I had a bunch of these jobs during the summers in high school and first year or so in college. A lot of my boys were sleeping all day, and while I'd be out with them all night, I knew I'd be clearing plates at 3pm the next day. Definitely motivated me a couple years later to work my ass off, on some "I never want to work in a restaurant again" steez.
Hats off batmon, hope your effort with the dude pays off and is appreciated, if only down the line.
* Get him to paint the apartment - There is nothing like prepping and painting an entire interior for the first time to get a handle on just how difficult real life shit is.
THEN
* Insist that whatever you pay him half will be invested in shares in his name, get him a broker and show him the ropes.
Pay him fairly (for his age and experience) and ride his ass on quality and speed related issues. Drop knowledge nuggets while you watch him work sipping Courvoisier in your underoos.
Cleaning is a nowhere move, he needs to bleed and sacrifice.
P.S If you've been thinking about renovating your bathroom now is the time, tile removal will fuck his world up.
I know being into wrestling is akin to giving up on life, but it could be helpful to get him out of the house. If he's living in the NY area, there's plenty of indie promotions (not backyard wrestling) he could go see. ROH/Chikara/Dragongate/PWG etc. Maybe he could get involved and sell tickets for some smaller promotion or learn to referee or something. Just steer clear of all the scumbags.
there is no solution outside of tell the little fucker to get a job or go to school and do that shit like a job. if neither of those speak to him, then it's time to smack him around for a while until he sees the light.
i was working at a group home a couple years ago, and while i was on a scaffolding above, i heard three young males talking about how 'the system' is 'designed to make me fail' and how the 'economy is in a downturn'... that type shit.... when another resident walked up and told them 'if you can't find a job by the time the sun goes down today, then your got bigger problems then a poor economy'.... this is coming from a person living in assisted living. deep down they know that they're taking advantage of everyone around them and deserve to be made accountable in one way or another.
[heavy-handed diatribe about how this kids excuses make me want to puke]
Is telling an 18 year old that they need to get off their ass and get a job, with joining the Service as one option, instead of sleeping and playing XBox all day really "tough love"?
Seems to me that this is simply the reality of being an adult.
My pops joined the service on his own and wasnt goaded into it. He realized himself that shit wasnt right at 17 and got the fuck outta Harlem.
Different America then.
Tuff love i think depends on the situation. One style of Full Metal Jacket Sargent steez might not reach every kid.
Id rather see my kid coached by Greg Popovich and Larry Brown than George Karl and Mike D'Antoni.
He needs a white guy?
Doesn't everyone?
job corps and americorps also offer some decent programs that can get kids out of their immediate environment of stagnation and into some training and general usefulness. americorps almost definitely necessitates a high school degree
If he couldnt labor at a construction site i doubt hes had the dna to acclimate himself to being told what to do all the time.
You never know though. Dude could embrace the machismo and fall right in during training camp.
Looks like you got good intentions, but this makes it seem like you bailed on your initial plan?
I sat with him and told him the deal. And we all agreed that doing shit for me isnt a priority and getting his GED is first.
Boxing would be a great option for dude. Way less weirdos than wrestling and is ultra disciplined. Will be great to get his frustrations out with at first, plus give him confidence and exercise. Endorphins will clear that depression out real quick!
Oakland has this spot that I've been hearing good things about for a while: http://www.eoba.org/index.html Maybe you can find something similar in your area?
but making use of his time and getting out of the house should be big too. volunteering somewhere could be crucial. my mom forced me out of the house when i was a sullen teen and indentured me at a womens shelter. i ended up putting in a lot of hours, getting good kitchen experience and being very thankful for the privileges i enjoy with my life.
besides being useful to others, identifying some skills to learn could be a good step. whether it be trades, computers, language, musical instruments. learning skills builds pride and can teach a very valuable lesson about patience, commitment and practice paying off
unskilled people could end up working registers or shovels for life
were not talmbout an eleven year old with nothing to do. Hes 18 and should be readying himself for the workplace....IMO.
Volunteering is also a great suggestion for all the skills-related reasons and a good way to explore what he enjoys outside of the house.
There's a lot of hours in a day. Get dude on a schedule that will keep him busy and out of the house. This will be a good boost for him while he is working on getting his GED.
just a thought..the kid should read some dope books/autobiographies while he's studying for GEDs. it will help his vocab, reading comp and writing for the test as well as possibly inspire and educate him. maybe you could give him books that you love and discuss with him as he goes. i'm a firm believer reading has immeasurable benefits. lots of high school students i know have never read a 200+ page book for pleasure and its a damn shame.
i truly apologize for writing so much in this thread. i hope i havent been annoying. bottom line is, the dudes most pressing need doesnt seem to be a job...he needs general motivation toward self improvement and engagement with the wider world
when i ran the job training program and didnt have positions open, i would always strongly recommend volunteering. the teens would recoil in horror "you mean work for free???!" to which i would reply:
first of all, you should by all means keep looking for work. while you are looking, volunteer. perspective employers will get the impression that you arent lazy and they will have someone tangible to call for a reference. second, you can pick up workplace skills and have an experience that looks good on a resume. third, when a position does open up, you will have the inside track over other applicants and will have a pretty strong idea if the job is right for you or not.