caverndiscos pt.2

discos_almadiscos_alma discos_alma 2,164 Posts
edited May 2011 in Strut Central
Like clockwork, a year later this dude comes back with an even wilder list

http://www.soulstrut.com/index.php/forums/viewthread/64476/
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  • HorseleechHorseleech 3,830 Posts
    Hasn't he had like 4-5 auctions since then?

    He's got some serious heat up there this time.

  • discos_almadiscos_alma discos_alma 2,164 Posts
    Horseleech said:
    Hasn't he had like 4-5 auctions since then?

    Yeah but none on quite the same level, IMO.

  • behemothbehemoth 2,189 Posts
    he sells for other people though right? if that was all stuff he found throughout the year it would be 10 times crazier. either way i'm not claiming to be anything near a know-it-all but i haven't heard of a lot of these titles haha

    this auction is like a small lesson haha

  • HorseleechHorseleech 3,830 Posts
    musica said:
    Horseleech said:
    Hasn't he had like 4-5 auctions since then?

    Yeah but none on quite the same level, IMO.

    True, this one is particularly impressive. I'll be watching...

  • gravelheadwrapgravelheadwrap corn 948 Posts
    Ridiculous!

  • buttonbutton 1,475 Posts
    Pretty much everything but Ball of Eyes.

  • pcmrpcmr 5,591 Posts
    Dawn of Beige FTW!
    Shrink Verocai envy!

  • 4YearGraduate4YearGraduate 2,936 Posts
    That "Panama" 45 by Roy Porter is an early (and MUCH harder version) of the best track from the LP. Shit is rare as all hell here in LA. Roy had no real distribution on these at the time and was kind of a wreck.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/Roy-Porter-Sound-Machine-Panama-Funk-45-Chelan-OG-HEAR-/120719404417?pt=Music_on_Vinyl&hash=item1c1b6fed81

    DMN SN!

  • discos_almadiscos_alma discos_alma 2,164 Posts
    Next week is going to be utter mayhem!

  • marumaru 1,450 Posts
    i want to bid on some things but i'm afraid i'll be destroyed by snipes

  • MoogManMoogMan Sao Paulo, Brazil 1,173 Posts
    pcmr said:
    Shrink Verocai envy!

    This got me thinking, because it wasn't a common practice to use shrink in brazilian records.
    Anyway, that list is mega crazy!

  • DanteDante 371 Posts
    maru said:
    i want to bid on some things but i'm afraid i'll be destroyed by snipes

    Snipe yourself and hope for the best.

  • spelunkspelunk 3,400 Posts
    MoogMan said:
    pcmr said:
    Shrink Verocai envy!

    This got me thinking, because it wasn't a common practice to use shrink in brazilian records.

    Yeah, when I first saw this copy I didn't believe it, but it's 100% original. The way that the shrink is put onto the record is different from what you see in the states or elsewhere. I feel like I've seen shrinkwrap on other 70s Brazilian LPs but it's certainly not common. If anyone can turn up other examples of this I'd be curious.

  • DelayDelay 4,530 Posts
    I've had 60s brazillian LPs with shrink

  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,518 Posts
    If the record was imported into the states they are likely to have been shrink wrapped at the importer/distributor/store.

    There may have been stores in SA that also had shrink wrap machines.

    Often when I find records from SA the covers are wrapped in plastic and the plastic is attached to the sleeve. No what I mean? What is up with that? Did they come from the factory that way?

  • MoogManMoogMan Sao Paulo, Brazil 1,173 Posts
    LaserWolf said:
    If the record was imported into the states they are likely to have been shrink wrapped at the importer/distributor/store.

    There may have been stores in SA that also had shrink wrap machines.

    Often when I find records from SA the covers are wrapped in plastic and the plastic is attached to the sleeve. No what I mean? What is up with that? Did they come from the factory that way?

    Yeah, some brazilian record stores used to shrink wrap some titles in the 70's.
    Probably, that Verocai was shrink wrapped by the importers' request.

    Maybe you are talking about sandwich covers? They were made that way and were common from mid 60's to early 70's in Brazil and other SA countries.
    I don't know if you can see it, but this is an example of sandwich covers:


  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,518 Posts
    Sandwich cover. Thanks.

  • discos_almadiscos_alma discos_alma 2,164 Posts
    LaserWolf said:
    Sandwich cover. Thanks.

    AKA "plastic bag" covers

  • The-gafflerThe-gaffler 2,190 Posts
    4YearGraduate said:
    That "Panama" 45 by Roy Porter is an early (and MUCH harder version) of the best track from the LP. Shit is rare as all hell here in LA. Roy had no real distribution on these at the time and was kind of a wreck.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/Roy-Porter-Sound-Machine-Panama-Funk-45-Chelan-OG-HEAR-/120719404417?pt=Music_on_Vinyl&hash=item1c1b6fed81

    DMN SN!

    i have a live set recorded from a night i did a few years ago, and a strutter on here dropped that 45 in his set and blew my mind.

    beenwanting

  • mannybolonemannybolone 15,030 Posts
    Whenever hits on my eBay RSS feeds come up, I get excited and then when I see "caverndiscos" in the seller's column, it's a deflation since I know the odds of scoring a bargain are slim.

    Of course, if I'm selling consignment through him, it's all good and then some!

  • molequemoleque 3 Posts
    It??s rare to find Brazilian records from the early 1970s still with shrink wrap though they exist and it did occur on many labels though it is perceived as a myth, as few still exist like that today.

    I??d highly doubt that is an import. It??s also not the first Verocai to be sold in shrink. There was one sold a few years ago in shrink for MUCH less than the current price on his auction right now, that is unless it is not the same one being auction that is. Take a look on Popsike.

    On the auction, whilst it??s gracefull to acknowledge people it is wrongfull information. Yes Tropicalia "discovered" this record though the people who own Tropicalia are called MARCIO AND BRUNO, not Marcus. Also it was not Marcio who "discovered" the record it was Bruno in 1990 - I say "discovered" as that is what the auction implies, what in fact happened was the English and Japanese were buying as much as they could from Brazil and not telling shop owners what it was they were looking for so as not to inform them and inflate prices until one day, an idiot from Russia, responsible for many shitty bootlegs during the 1990s who was also a theif because he took money from these artists and actually stole other things and is infamous for that in Brazil. He gave Bruno a list of what he was looking for and the prices he??d sell them for in the U.K, the Verocai was already known outside of Brazil for a good 5 years.

    Bruno found a copy and sold it to the Russian gentleman for the wholesome amount of $30. The Russian man is responsible for creating the absurb inflation of Brazilian records we see today.

    The Verocai was never imported and it was not burned in a fire either, this is sensationalism. The honest truth is that it was pressed in small amounts and was a flop.

    Continental was a relatively small label and by the arrival of the 1970s and was one of the labels which was economically forced to recycle records that did not sell, so my beleif is that the remaing Verocai??s were not burned as there were terrible problems with oil in Brazil in the 70s, 80s and 90s until Petrobras was formed and Brazil started to exploit its own territory, for that reason alone I do not see a label that was formed in the 1950s with many years of pressing records behind them in a country with ridiculous importation taxes burning their stock. Not one person has ever spoke of a fire in many years.

    Labels like Philips of course were corporations and never recycled. Logic.

    Just to add: what a find!

  • spelunkspelunk 3,400 Posts
    Thanks for all the info. Sorry I messed up the name, it's been almost 3 years since I was down there. I heard more or less the same story with quite a bit more about the crooks that were coming in the 90s and really bullying store owners, all while standing next to one of them who shall go unnamed, who didn't understand our conversation despite claiming to live in Rio part-time.

    I'm curious where the fire rumor started, as it's one I've heard so many times at this point - I'm certainly not trying to perpetuate it if it's not true. The oil crisis and recycling could account for the rarity just as well, it'd be interesting to get a definitive answer. There are certainly a number of other records on Continental that I could imagine this having happened to as well.

    I'm a bit dubious of the statement that one Russian guy created "absurd inflation of Brazilian records" though, since I really don't feel like relative to what's going on in the rest of the world of collectible rare groove records, they're really much different - there's a lot of stuff I still think is undervalued considering how tough it is to find clean. I'm unclear on the story as you present it, since the one I heard is that while copies of Verocai had been sold in the past, it was a sale to a guy in the UK for about $200 that really blew the record up on the rare groove scene. The Verocai album is, beyond being a great record, a really interesting case study in how an obscure record achieves such huge notoriety abroad.

  • molequemoleque 3 Posts
    I??m not implying this is you in any way but I imagine that the rumor, in which I??m not saying is true or false as I don??t know as well (who does), I just have my logical opinion and my own experiences, tending to water down all rumours by about 99% is that people with that record to sell (and any record for that matter) will always make up bullshit to make more money, again, I don??t beleive nor am I implying that is you and we are all free to speak of rumours.

    This Russian guy is basically greedy and wanted to corner off the market and gave a list to Bruno who at the time was selling records on the streets, this was before Tropicalia opened as a shop. He gave prices because he wanted Bruno to separate these records because the Russian guy would pay a better price, like 50% of the international market price. What actually happened though was the guys at Tropicalia just bumped up the prices for everyone (quite fairly) and so did all the other sellers once they got wind of it. This is just about the Brazilian scene. I guess it??s just how it happens. I imagine that it was similar in other countries with rare grooves.

    Yes, people claiming to live (on and off), have lived or have visited Brazil for decades and then falling on the wayside when it comes to speaking or knowledge is ammusing.

  • TDLT02TDLT02 146 Posts
    The Russian guy you speak of is the infamous G*nnar*y, who actually has a classical music composer background.
    The story goes he was in London or Paris in the early 90s and discovered the hype around Brazilian records that was taking place! He just took the titles, and a list of records wanted by certain collectors/record hustlers he came into contact with in some of the well known Soho shops (these people who gave him titles and info shall remain nameless). Upon returning to Rio he then found the records, as we now know "by hook or by crook"...LOL!

    There are many various stories going round about some of the tricks he got up to, appears he did not care about the music too much, only in making money from the records!
    Once I was standing by the record sellers near the Opera House, and the police came by looking for him. They wanted to speak to him about an incident of a man having been shot dead on his farm property!!!

    To be honest, before G*nnar*y was hustling the records and pressing the bootlegs up in London, other people were visiting Brazil on crate digging trips. A couple of guys I know about were making runs to Brazil in the mid to late 80s buying up stuff for almost nothing, and then selling them on for big money to collectors in the U.K. and Japan upon returning home. Stuff like Tenorio Junior, Azymuth's 1st LP and Ana Mazzotti for ??200 - ??250 back in 1992 (stuff they paid no more than a few dollars at the most for).


    This is the origins of the hiked market price for a lot of the 'holy grail' records that are now on many collectors wants list...

    I was also surprised to see the Verocai in a shrink wrap, as I've never seen a Brazilian gatefold LP in one before (not to say that they don't exist, and were originally sold as such)...

  • Mongo_SladeMongo_Slade 999 Posts
    moleque said:
    It??s also not the first Verocai to be sold in shrink. There was one sold a few years ago in shrink. Take a look on Popsike.

    I can confirm that the copy that Spelunk is selling is the same copy that was sold on eBay in 2004.

  • mannybolonemannybolone 15,030 Posts
    Mongo_Slade said:
    moleque said:
    It??s also not the first Verocai to be sold in shrink. There was one sold a few years ago in shrink. Take a look on Popsike.

    I can confirm that the copy that Spelunk is selling is the same copy that was sold on eBay in 2004.

    LOL. What's comes around goes back around again.

  • DuderonomyDuderonomy Haut de la Garenne 7,319 Posts
    I wish somebody with a clean copy of the Verocai would organise a legit re-ish.

  • mannybolonemannybolone 15,030 Posts
    Does Ubiquity still own the rights?

  • TDLT02TDLT02 146 Posts
    Duderonomy said:
    I wish somebody with a clean copy of the Verocai would organise a legit re-ish.

    I was always under the impression that the Luv N' Haight reissue was legit!
    They didn't have the master tapes as far as I know, possibly because they no longer exist!!!

    Would there be any point in making a new reissue from a vinyl copy once again, surely only worth doing if the master-tapes do still exist, and could be remastered in the process.
    My own copy is in top shape and would suggest if someone did do it that they make sure the sleeve is a gatefold like the original, with the nice inner photo's on show...

  • HorseleechHorseleech 3,830 Posts
    moleque said:
    The Verocai was never imported and it was not burned in a fire either, this is sensationalism.

    I never heard this rumor, but it doesn't make any sense. Why would they burn them, wouldn't they just throw them out? Burning makes no sense.

    I do believe that they would have ground them down to recycle, however. Having a number of Continental records from this time, I can attest that they sound like recycled vinyl, including my Verocai.
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