Dude..... Blues, Jazz, Soul, Funk and Rock were all created and perfected in the U.S. They are all forms of music that are played worldwide and each time the form of music has been taken elsewhere (e.g. Brazil, Jamaica) it picks up rhythms, scales and cultural elements and character and it grows and squirms and changes into something a little different.
I dont think many of you have any more legitimate claim to a style of music created by 'black & latino' youth than we do unless you are from those communties that created it
Uh, this is pretty much the same sentiment as being expressed elsewhere except you took nationality and replaced it with race.
"Dangerous"
what Im saying is there a ppl on SS who talk about Hip Hop like they created it and dismiss anyone else thats not from the US as somehow not having a valid opinion or even a right to be involved into Hip Hop based on race... and lets call it how it is.
The majority of duides who talk down on non US dudes do it from a position ridiculing the 'whiteness' of thos that arent from the US. The whole perception of Euroman is that of a white middle class kid thats disconnected from the 'hood' is it not? So whats the difference between a white middle class kid from Sydney or Helsinki and one from one of the many suburbs for the US?
And how does the opinion of a white middle class kid from the US somehow become more valid than that of a white kid from anywhere else in the world, when discussing a form of music created by black and latino urban youth? And if its okay for Hip Hop to be used and created by white ppl in the US why cant other non Black and Latino ppl around the world do it too?
What about Hip Hop from Asia, Middle East, France, Serbia,Brasil, Cuba, Norway, South Africa etc etc Non of it is valid cus its not made in the US?
What you are essentially saying is that Americans laugh at the notion that Hip Hop exists, and strives outside of the USA - right?
This is news?
You don't think that if there were some form of music created in Australia, perfected in Australia, and recognized as uniquely Australian, that if you saw a non-Australian performing it you might not have a critical/apathetic/dismissive reaction to it?
There's no rule, it's definitely a culture specific thing.
Jamaicans love and embrace foreign acts who perform something as uniquely Jamaican as Dancehall.
picks up rhythms, scales and cultural elements and character and it grows and squirms and changes into something a little different.
That might be, but there's absolutely nothing "different" about this tune that's supposed to prove that "rap ain't dead."
That's not what I said and that's not what I meant! I mentioned cultural elements and character and that song has a lot of references that someone outside of Oz wouldn't know. It's cool, I know you don't care. But i'm glad to know that Trem is doing his thing to the best of his ability, cos I'm pretty sure he wouldn't give a fuck if someone said he was wack.
i honestly could care less where anyone is from. that doesnt even enter my mind when i'm listening to something i like. i have friends that make music all over the world and i respect them as much as i do my neighbors.
rap: the medium, is way more than lyrical content and accent. there's an intangible quality that people not from this culture don't get. Maybe the same arrogance that seems to ruffle feathers is that element. i have no problem with homage and different cultures picking it up and running with it. Do i have to like it? hell no. Its my opinion. Dont ask for and opinion on an open forum and act all menstrual when we dont like the product. At least we can honestly tell you why. I'll give anything a chance regardless of its origin, but I have yet to hear a non-north american rapper that i'm really feeling.
on a side note, this dude that booked me in munich gave me a tape of african raps and i bumped it hard. still have it
In response to my statement "I don't know if you got the memo, but Hip Hop is international now - and has been for quite some time"[/b]
HarveyCanal said:
If only you knew how laughable that starement is to us here in the States...
Don't mean to be mean, but y'all are soooo faar out of your element with this ish.
Harvey, I know you are a fairly smart person - But that was possibly the dumbest thing I have ever read on here.
What you are essentially saying is that Americans laugh at the notion that Hip Hop exists, and strives outside of the USA - right?
Not only is what you say extremely disrespectful and offensive to pretty much every other country in the world (to all the hard working producers, MC's, DJ's, B Boys, graff writers, and Hip Hop supporters who lived and breathed Hip Hop in every city of this planet for the last 20+ years) - But also to the many Soul Strut members who live out side of the USA, many of whom are rightly considered heavyweights for the talents, skills, and contributions in their respective countries.
Now, fortunately I know plenty of Americans who don't think the same as you, and have nothing but love and respect for the various Hip Hop communities around the world.
As for the song in question.. I kind of lost caring whether anyone considers it wack or not. It just wasn't all that important to me - I am much more concerned about this dangerous elitist xenophobic attitude a few of you are now surprisingly displaying.
Snagglepus said:
So which is it? Should American listeners look at this guy as a regional curiosity with hometown hero status, or should we look at him as an international artist?
this guy lacks the charisma and originality (i.e. he's too boring and outdated) to even create a blip on the international radar.
Yes.. of course it's a regional thing. I don't think trying to make on the international radar was ever really a concern. The MC's I know do it because they love it - Not because they want to be some superstar overseas.
Here's a dangerous sentiment for you: Americans don't care enough about rap from other parts of the world to bother laughing at it.
Rap is a fundamentally Black American form. If you want to do it, that's fine. But don't expect anybody to take it seriously.
m-phazes is one of the only producers i know from australia and i think he is pretty good.
m-phazes is a great producer and a super nice guy
b/w the guy that produced the beat that started this whole debacle also made this beat
Newsflash, dude: making beats for dudes like that doesn't exactly legitimize anybody in terms of American rap. They're basically Euroman revivalists themselves and don't have any fans here.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
Shit, I like some foreign rap...especially in non-English languages. And there are some American whiteboys who also do a good job of it. There is no written rule to who is capable of making good music. But something with hip-hop is sensing that certain artists are forcing it far too much. If you ain't got jazz and soul and funk in you from jump, plaese to leave hip-hop alone. It's a style thing and if yours comes across as too copycat, then I can't even stand to look at you, let alone listen to you. That's just how it is...and it gets applied across the board to American artists as well as anyone.
Also, this whole 4-elements, hip-hop culture thing that Euro-types use to assume some implied companionship has been overdone to the point that plaese to never pull that card again. Yes, I grew up on Flash and Bam...but that doesn't mean that when you play me your subpar song that I'm going to tell you it's great just because we are comrades. You will never be able to successfully explain to someone why they are wrong for not liking your music. Just do your best, seek out those who do like what you are doing, and have a party.
Shit, I like some foreign rap...especially in non-English languages. And there are some American whiteboys who also do a good job of it. There is no written rule to who is capable of making good music. But something with hip-hop is sensing that certain artists are forcing it far too much. If you ain't got jazz and soul and funk in you from jump, plaese to leave hip-hop alone. It's a style thing and if yours comes across as too copycat, then I can't even stand to look at you, let alone listen to you. That's just how it is...and it gets applied across the board to American artists as well as anyone.
Also, this whole 4-elements, hip-hop culture thing that Euro-types use to assume some implied companionship has been overdone to the point that plaese to never pull that card again. Yes, I grew up on Flash and Bam...but that doesn't mean that when you play me your subpar song that I'm going to tell you it's great just because we are comrades. You will never be able to successfully explain to someone why they are wrong for not liking your music. Just do your best, seek out those who do like what you are doing, and have a party.
Shit, I like some foreign rap...especially in non-English languages. And there are some American whiteboys who also do a good job of it. There is no written rule to who is capable of making good music. But something with hip-hop is sensing that certain artists are forcing it far too much. If you ain't got jazz and soul and funk in you from jump, plaese to leave hip-hop alone. It's a style thing and if yours comes across as too copycat, then I can't even stand to look at you, let alone listen to you. That's just how it is...and it gets applied across the board to American artists as well as anyone.
Also, this whole 4-elements, hip-hop culture thing that Euro-types use to assume some implied companionship has been overdone to the point that plaese to never pull that card again. Yes, I grew up on Flash and Bam...but that doesn't mean that when you play me your subpar song that I'm going to tell you it's great just because we are comrades. You will never be able to successfully explain to someone why they are wrong for not liking your music. Just do your best, seek out those who do like what you are doing, and have a party.
Yes, I grew up on Flash and Bam...but that doesn't mean that when you play me your subpar song that I'm going to tell you it's great just because we are comrades.
I don't recall anyone asking you to do that in this thread?
Shit, I like some foreign rap...especially in non-English languages. And there are some American whiteboys who also do a good job of it. There is no written rule to who is capable of making good music. But something with hip-hop is sensing that certain artists are forcing it far too much. If you ain't got jazz and soul and funk in you from jump, plaese to leave hip-hop alone. It's a style thing and if yours comes across as too copycat, then I can't even stand to look at you, let alone listen to you. That's just how it is...and it gets applied across the board to American artists as well as anyone.
Also, this whole 4-elements, hip-hop culture thing that Euro-types use to assume some implied companionship has been overdone to the point that plaese to never pull that card again. Yes, I grew up on Flash and Bam...but that doesn't mean that when you play me your subpar song that I'm going to tell you it's great just because we are comrades. You will never be able to successfully explain to someone why they are wrong for not liking your music. Just do your best, seek out those who do like what you are doing, and have a party.
What style or genre of music that is native to a country other than America have American artists performed as well as, or better than, artists from the originating country??
Gotta love the 21st Century and how White folks from the US can tell Whitey from around the world that they aren't real Hip Hop!
This shit is starting to make me angry now.
I know there was one voice of reason from Oz so far, but the majority of the voices on here have revealed themselves to be the littlest of little dudes who really clearly do not understand the world they live in. Same is true of plenty of Americans, but really, you Oz dudes are playing yourselves so embarrassingly that is has to stop now. Maybe you simply don't get and never have got Hip Hop.
Yes, we understand what HIP HOP means to you. What it means to thousands if not millions of communities around the world. And I think it's great. Keep having your bboy battles, keep rocking doubles, keep painting murals, and every now and then one of you can take the mic and make sure that everyone else knows the words to Sugarhill Gang. It's cute. I have been a small part of small local communities of bboys and girls from all types of ethnic backgrounds here in Brooklyn. It is a truly international scene, involving black, latino, jewish, polish, brittish, all coming together to represent the best elements of what it is that makes shit so cool.
BUT, nobody is rapping apart from people who can fucking rap. Rap is different. Not only is it fundamentally a Black American thing, as stated, it is also more generally tied to the experience of the black diaspora. If you look at the countries whose rappers have been given a second look by the rest of the world, they are from countries who are also closely linked to black diaspora - Jamaica, UK, France, more recently Africa and Latin america. They have something to say that people might be interested in, so they get taken seriously.
You think that all rappers in the US get a pass by virtue of being American? So incredibly wrong. Eminem is not accepted as a legit rapper by a huge segment of the rap-listening population who happen to not be the current target demographic, but who have been listening since day one. At best he is seen as entertainment, and those people also know that he would still be flipping burgers or whatever if Dre had not bought up so much commercial time on MTV to promote his first LP.
But, Eminem's narrative has been sufficiently tied to the narrative of the black diaspora that it makes him believable to many as a legit rapper (living in Detroit accounts for most of that cred, seemed to almost work for Kid Rock as well. Asher Roth should have moved there too, plus Americans can get confused about race v. class) I actually think that the only time white people should rap is for pure entertainment. I will judge their style and flow, but I will not try to place it under the heading "Rap ain't dead" because that proves it really is.
Anyway, what I am trying to say is that the rest of the world does not care that Sydney has train yards that are a bit gritty and that your public transit system maybe smells like pee, and you are feeling alienated in this crazy modern world. NOBODY GIVE A FUCK, your "art" is just an exercise in narcissism. The sooner you realize that, the sooner you can get to channeling your creativity towards something useful. Kinetic, the beat was cool, the rap ruined it. What's wrong with making beats and doing something over the top that is not rap hands rap?
Now if there were a group of historically downtrodden in your country who have been deprived of access to means of expression, and somehow managed to create a music form with minimal technology and investment, but that spoke to people about the realities of life, then we are all ears. Do you have any of those? Or are these soft-bodied stoner artistic white boys as deep as the story gets in your country? On that note, fall the fuck back when criticizing Big Bad America. The USA is too complex to write off singlehandedly, something I have learned from 22 years of living here. Your history has equally disturbing episodes that remain unaddressed. Are you rapping about that because I couldn't tell? I just saw non stop rap hands.
If you want my opinions on race, segregation, the t-shirts at my high school that read "it's a black thing, you wouldn't understand".... now that is a whole nother topic. But until you remove yourselves from this bullshit equation, you will continue to come up with the wrong answers about rap and hip hop.
Gotta love the 21st Century and how White folks from the US can tell Whitey from around the world that they aren't real Hip Hop!
This shit is starting to make me angry now.
I know there was one voice of reason from Oz so far, but the majority of the voices on here have revealed themselves to be the littlest of little dudes who really clearly do not understand the world they live in. Same is true of plenty of Americans, but really, you Oz dudes are playing yourselves so embarrassingly that is has to stop now. Maybe you simply don't get and never have got Hip Hop.
Yes, we understand what HIP HOP means to you. What it means to thousands if not millions of communities around the world. And I think it's great. Keep having your bboy battles, keep rocking doubles, keep painting murals, and every now and then one of you can take the mic and make sure that everyone else knows the words to Sugarhill Gang. It's cute. I have been a small part of small local communities of bboys and girls from all types of ethnic backgrounds here in Brooklyn. It is a truly international scene, involving black, latino, jewish, polish, brittish, all coming together to represent the best elements of what it is that makes shit so cool.
BUT, nobody is rapping apart from people who can fucking rap. Rap is different. Not only is it fundamentally a Black American thing, as stated, it is also more generally tied to the experience of the black diaspora. If you look at the countries whose rappers have been given a second look by the rest of the world, they are from countries who are also closely linked to black diaspora - Jamaica, UK, France, more recently Africa and Latin america. They have something to say that people might be interested in, so they get taken seriously.
You think that all rappers in the US get a pass by virtue of being American? So incredibly wrong. Eminem is not accepted as a legit rapper by a huge segment of the rap-listening population who happen to not be the current target demographic, but who have been listening since day one. At best he is seen as entertainment, and those people also know that he would still be flipping burgers or whatever if Dre had not bought up so much commercial time on MTV to promote his first LP.
But, Eminem's narrative has been sufficiently tied to the narrative of the black diaspora that it makes him believable to many as a legit rapper (living in Detroit accounts for most of that cred, seemed to almost work for Kid Rock as well. Asher Roth should have moved there too, plus Americans can get confused about race v. class) I actually think that the only time white people should rap is for pure entertainment. I will judge their style and flow, but I will not try to place it under the heading "Rap ain't dead" because that proves it really is.
Anyway, what I am trying to say is that the rest of the world does not care that Sydney has train yards that are a bit gritty and that your public transit system maybe smells like pee, and you are feeling alienated in this crazy modern world. NOBODY GIVE A FUCK, your "art" is just an exercise in narcissism. The sooner you realize that, the sooner you can get to channeling your creativity towards something useful. Kinetic, the beat was cool, the rap ruined it. What's wrong with making beats and doing something over the top that is not rap hands rap?
Now if there were a group of historically downtrodden in your country who have been deprived of access to means of expression, and somehow managed to create a music form with minimal technology and investment, but that spoke to people about the realities of life, then we are all ears. Do you have any of those? Or are these soft-bodied stoner artistic white boys as deep as the story gets in your country? On that note, fall the fuck back when criticizing Big Bad America. The USA is too complex to write off singlehandedly, something I have learned from 22 years of living here. Your history has equally disturbing episodes that remain unaddressed. Are you rapping about that because I couldn't tell? I just saw non stop rap hands.
If you want my opinions on race, segregation, the t-shirts at my high school that read "it's a black thing, you wouldn't understand".... now that is a whole nother topic. But until you remove yourselves from this bullshit equation, you will continue to come up with the wrong answers about rap and hip hop.
Comments
what Im saying is there a ppl on SS who talk about Hip Hop like they created it and dismiss anyone else thats not from the US as somehow not having a valid opinion or even a right to be involved into Hip Hop based on race... and lets call it how it is.
The majority of duides who talk down on non US dudes do it from a position ridiculing the 'whiteness' of thos that arent from the US. The whole perception of Euroman is that of a white middle class kid thats disconnected from the 'hood' is it not? So whats the difference between a white middle class kid from Sydney or Helsinki and one from one of the many suburbs for the US?
And how does the opinion of a white middle class kid from the US somehow become more valid than that of a white kid from anywhere else in the world, when discussing a form of music created by black and latino urban youth? And if its okay for Hip Hop to be used and created by white ppl in the US why cant other non Black and Latino ppl around the world do it too?
What about Hip Hop from Asia, Middle East, France, Serbia,Brasil, Cuba, Norway, South Africa etc etc Non of it is valid cus its not made in the US?
That might be, but there's absolutely nothing "different" about this tune that's supposed to prove that "rap ain't dead."
Jamaicans love and embrace foreign acts who perform something as uniquely Jamaican as Dancehall.
That's not what I said and that's not what I meant! I mentioned cultural elements and character and that song has a lot of references that someone outside of Oz wouldn't know. It's cool, I know you don't care. But i'm glad to know that Trem is doing his thing to the best of his ability, cos I'm pretty sure he wouldn't give a fuck if someone said he was wack.
It's a fucking homage!
rap: the medium, is way more than lyrical content and accent. there's an intangible quality that people not from this culture don't get. Maybe the same arrogance that seems to ruffle feathers is that element. i have no problem with homage and different cultures picking it up and running with it. Do i have to like it? hell no. Its my opinion. Dont ask for and opinion on an open forum and act all menstrual when we dont like the product. At least we can honestly tell you why. I'll give anything a chance regardless of its origin, but I have yet to hear a non-north american rapper that i'm really feeling.
on a side note, this dude that booked me in munich gave me a tape of african raps and i bumped it hard. still have it
post that.
Here's a dangerous sentiment for you: Americans don't care enough about rap from other parts of the world to bother laughing at it.
Rap is a fundamentally Black American form. If you want to do it, that's fine. But don't expect anybody to take it seriously.
Newsflash, dude: making beats for dudes like that doesn't exactly legitimize anybody in terms of American rap. They're basically Euroman revivalists themselves and don't have any fans here.
Also, this whole 4-elements, hip-hop culture thing that Euro-types use to assume some implied companionship has been overdone to the point that plaese to never pull that card again. Yes, I grew up on Flash and Bam...but that doesn't mean that when you play me your subpar song that I'm going to tell you it's great just because we are comrades. You will never be able to successfully explain to someone why they are wrong for not liking your music. Just do your best, seek out those who do like what you are doing, and have a party.
/THREAD CLOSED.
Bingo
I don't recall anyone asking you to do that in this thread?
I wouldn't say that statement is dangerous, just laughable.
Or in some cases, they are telling Latino people from overseas as well.
I can't think of any.
Shit has changed
Deal with it.
This shit is starting to make me angry now.
I know there was one voice of reason from Oz so far, but the majority of the voices on here have revealed themselves to be the littlest of little dudes who really clearly do not understand the world they live in. Same is true of plenty of Americans, but really, you Oz dudes are playing yourselves so embarrassingly that is has to stop now. Maybe you simply don't get and never have got Hip Hop.
Yes, we understand what HIP HOP means to you. What it means to thousands if not millions of communities around the world. And I think it's great. Keep having your bboy battles, keep rocking doubles, keep painting murals, and every now and then one of you can take the mic and make sure that everyone else knows the words to Sugarhill Gang. It's cute. I have been a small part of small local communities of bboys and girls from all types of ethnic backgrounds here in Brooklyn. It is a truly international scene, involving black, latino, jewish, polish, brittish, all coming together to represent the best elements of what it is that makes shit so cool.
BUT, nobody is rapping apart from people who can fucking rap. Rap is different. Not only is it fundamentally a Black American thing, as stated, it is also more generally tied to the experience of the black diaspora. If you look at the countries whose rappers have been given a second look by the rest of the world, they are from countries who are also closely linked to black diaspora - Jamaica, UK, France, more recently Africa and Latin america. They have something to say that people might be interested in, so they get taken seriously.
You think that all rappers in the US get a pass by virtue of being American? So incredibly wrong. Eminem is not accepted as a legit rapper by a huge segment of the rap-listening population who happen to not be the current target demographic, but who have been listening since day one. At best he is seen as entertainment, and those people also know that he would still be flipping burgers or whatever if Dre had not bought up so much commercial time on MTV to promote his first LP.
But, Eminem's narrative has been sufficiently tied to the narrative of the black diaspora that it makes him believable to many as a legit rapper (living in Detroit accounts for most of that cred, seemed to almost work for Kid Rock as well. Asher Roth should have moved there too, plus Americans can get confused about race v. class) I actually think that the only time white people should rap is for pure entertainment. I will judge their style and flow, but I will not try to place it under the heading "Rap ain't dead" because that proves it really is.
Anyway, what I am trying to say is that the rest of the world does not care that Sydney has train yards that are a bit gritty and that your public transit system maybe smells like pee, and you are feeling alienated in this crazy modern world. NOBODY GIVE A FUCK, your "art" is just an exercise in narcissism. The sooner you realize that, the sooner you can get to channeling your creativity towards something useful. Kinetic, the beat was cool, the rap ruined it. What's wrong with making beats and doing something over the top that is not rap hands rap?
Now if there were a group of historically downtrodden in your country who have been deprived of access to means of expression, and somehow managed to create a music form with minimal technology and investment, but that spoke to people about the realities of life, then we are all ears. Do you have any of those? Or are these soft-bodied stoner artistic white boys as deep as the story gets in your country? On that note, fall the fuck back when criticizing Big Bad America. The USA is too complex to write off singlehandedly, something I have learned from 22 years of living here. Your history has equally disturbing episodes that remain unaddressed. Are you rapping about that because I couldn't tell? I just saw non stop rap hands.
If you want my opinions on race, segregation, the t-shirts at my high school that read "it's a black thing, you wouldn't understand".... now that is a whole nother topic. But until you remove yourselves from this bullshit equation, you will continue to come up with the wrong answers about rap and hip hop.
you're full of shit.