President Wyclef?

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  • nzshadownzshadow 5,526 Posts
    A roving President...

    Im trying to get my head around this.

  • HarveyCanalHarveyCanal "a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
    crabmongerfunk said:

    This article is a steaming pile of shite. Let's see, what are your resources for the interview on Haitian politics...again, a misinterpretation of a Smoking Gun interview (was it actually alleged that Yele misused funds raised for earthquake relief? I thought the Smoking Gun articles referenced financials from prior years.) and of course the now renowned expert on Haiti, Sean Penn.

    And Wyclef is making the same point that those in the know are already well aware of...he represents a clean slate for Haiti, he doesn't have any blood on his hands like all the other Hitians politicians do, he represents a fresh start, a new breed that the youth can gladly get behind, and yes...there needs to be a certain degree of opening Haiti up to the world that needs to be done. Even if it's just that the US has it practically quarantined as a tourist destination. And no, not the whole country was ravaged by earthquake. This overcompensation in thinking that Haiti has to completely isolate itself in order to maintain its rich traditions is merely the US projecting a negative outcome for Haiti for its own exploitative devices. Y'all are eating the propaganda up with a spoon on this shit. Please try to not be guided by such a small pool of all-negative resources when it comes to forming opinions on the Haitian situation. And don't fuel the fires on when Wyclef is elected that the US feels justified in destroying his character and moving in with further destructive intervention. There is much promose here and the US media, including weak ass, why don't you talk to a single actual Haitian besides the subject at hand if you are going to do an article on Haiti NPR , are just doing what they have always done, which is venomously bash Haiti into what 9 times out of 10 is US derived dysfunction.

  • faux_rillzfaux_rillz 14,343 Posts
    HarveyCanal said:
    faux_rillz said:
    Soulhawk said:
    in all the interviews on this subject I've heard, Wyclef always refers to himself in the third person

    I was just noting that to my wife--invariably a clear indicator of dictatorial tendencies

    faux_rillz does not support wyclef

    Thankfully, faux_rillz doesn't count in this equation. You won't ever even have a conversation with an actual Haitian in order to have your opinion even register as a blip on the radar. But yeah, way to take a firm stance.

    Harvey Canal is somewhat presumptuous in assuming that faux_rillz does not not know any Haitians merely because faux_rillz does not consistently advertise the fact on the internet.

    Not that it's either or there.

  • HarveyCanalHarveyCanal "a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
    Soulhawk said:
    Soulhawk is wondering why Harvey Canal is giving Wyclef a pass on some serious issues, if anyone else had suggested that Haitians learn English Harvey would have started frothing at the mouth( even more so than usual)

    I'm not giving Wyclef a pass. I have always had much respect for Wyclef. I've known him to be celebrated and loved by Haitians since the Fugees blew up, and that's far from just a musical respect, as Wyclef has always represented properly for Haitians as their most prized celebrity in the world. And very prominently to Haitians, he has done great work in the streets there, in places Sean Penn would never dare to go. And no, why would I think that learning English, which is basically just expanding education, would be a bad thing? I frankly don't know what the hell you are talking about on that one.

  • The_NonThe_Non 5,691 Posts
    HarveyCanal said:
    crabmongerfunk said:

    This article is a steaming pile of shite. Let's see, what are your resources for the interview on Haitian politics...again, a misinterpretation of a Smoking Gun interview (was it actually alleged that Yele misused funds raised for earthquake relief? I thought the Smoking Gun articles referenced financials from prior years.) and of course the now renowned expert on Haiti, Sean Penn.

    And Wyclef is making the same point that those in the know are already well aware of...he represents a clean slate for Haiti, he doesn't have any blood on his hands like all the other Hitians politicians do, he represents a fresh start, a new breed that the youth can gladly get behind, and yes...there needs to be a certain degree of opening Haiti up to the world that needs to be done. Even if it's just that the US has it practically quarantined as a tourist destination. And no, not the whole country was ravaged by earthquake. This overcompensation in thinking that Haiti has to completely isolate itself in order to maintain its rich traditions is merely the US projecting a negative outcome for Haiti for its own exploitative devices. Y'all are eating the propaganda up with a spoon on this shit. Please try to not be guided by such a small pool of all-negative resources when it comes to forming opinions on the Haitian situation. And don't fuel the fires on when Wyclef is elected that the US feels justified in destroying his character and moving in with further destructive intervention. There is much promose here and the US media, including weak ass, why don't you talk to a single actual Haitian besides the subject at hand if you are going to do an article on Haiti NPR , are just doing what they have always done, which is venomously bash Haiti into what 9 times out of 10 is US derived dysfunction.

    That article was primarily an interview with Wyclef. Read stuff before getting enraged.

  • HarveyCanalHarveyCanal "a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
    I read the article. It does a terrible job of framing things from a assumed negative perspective on Wyclef's campaign. Its tone is like how dare you run for president when you have stolen money and you aren't even qualified and you aren't specific enough on your policies.It also lacks any background research done beyond 2 lame identically negative-in-tone sources. Y'all have done better research in this thread than dude did for his bs interview.

  • nzshadownzshadow 5,526 Posts
    HarveyCanal said:
    I read the article. It does a terrible job of framing things from a assumed negative perspective on Wyclef's campaign. Its tone is like how dare you run for president when you have stolen money and you aren't even qualified and you aren't specific enough on your policies.It also lacks any background research done beyond 2 lame identically negative-in-tone sources. Y'all have done better research in this thread than dude did for his bs interview.

    Not stealing money, being qualified and being specific on policies are pretty good starting points for anyone who does dare to run for President though, roving or not.

  • RockadelicRockadelic Out Digging 13,993 Posts
    So who do you like in the upcoming Texas Governor's race??

    Z-Ro or Mike Jones?

  • it's an interview not an article. they are asking him questions about issues that out there in the public domain and he is giving vague, silly and imperious responses.

  • HarveyCanalHarveyCanal "a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
    nzshadow said:
    HarveyCanal said:
    I read the article. It does a terrible job of framing things from a assumed negative perspective on Wyclef's campaign. Its tone is like how dare you run for president when you have stolen money and you aren't even qualified and you aren't specific enough on your policies.It also lacks any background research done beyond 2 lame identically negative-in-tone sources. Y'all have done better research in this thread than dude did for his bs interview.

    Not stealing money, being qualified and being specific on policies are pretty good starting points for anyone who does dare to run for President though, roving or not.

    His actions in the unseen streets of Haiti are specific as it gets. NPR should go there and interview some of these youth who so adamently believe in Wyclef as a leader...instead of faultily think that Wyclef is going to go point for point on a talk show that is institutionally lazy in its disregard of a Haitian presidential candidate as worthy of having anything but one-sided propaganda articles used as the basis of an interview. Again, why is friggin Sean Penn the only authority at this point in time? If this was Obama running, the Democratic party wouldn't even allow such a lame interview to happen. Plus, Wyclef will be answering to Haitians, and not necessarily to agents of an outright enemy country such as the US. Y'all seem completely lost on such a point. He should be brushing off such disrespectful inquiries.

  • blah, blah, blah

  • HarveyCanalHarveyCanal "a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
    elected, elected, elected

  • SoulhawkSoulhawk 3,197 Posts
    no facts or lines of questioning will dislodge Harvey from Wyclef's dick

    shame on y'all for trying

  • bassiebassie 11,710 Posts
    Unquestioning loyalty that refuses to acknowledge shortcomings serves no one. It is the stuff dictatorships and illegitimate and ineffective governments are built on.

    This piece raised two questions for me

    -would Jean even be running if not for the earthquake?

    -as the writer suggests, can he not do more for the country as an ambassador rather than a president?



    Stick To What You Know

  • HarveyCanalHarveyCanal "a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
    bassie said:
    Unquestioning loyalty that refuses to acknowledge shortcomings serves no one. It is the stuff dictatorships and illegitimate and ineffective governments are built on.

    This piece raised two questions for me

    -would Jean even be running if not for the earthquake?

    -as the writer suggests, can he not do more for the country as an ambassador rather than a president?



    Stick To What You Know

    As the writer suggests, Wyclef would be better off sucking up to Brad and Angelina to help an entire nation turn itself around???

    Obviously, this dude is also disconnected from Wyclef's reach and contributions within Haitian society.

    The big point of Wyclef's campaign is the clean slate he brings. Vote in yet another career politician, likely to either be a US puppet or an opportunist or even both, and nothing changes.

    At least with Wyclef, who is being questioned by me and other of his supporters...just not in the manner of a propaganda derived assassination of his entire character sort of way, as we've know him to do plenty good for over a decade before any alleged improprieties emerged...there is a chance for a new day to assert itself in Haiti.

    And to answer your second question, don't you think Wyclef would have more leverage to demand that promises of aid be fulfilled as the actual president of Haiti as opposed to just that dude who remade Staying Alive?

    Y'all are really missing the forrest for the trees.

  • HarveyCanalHarveyCanal "a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
    And let's be clear that Bill Clinton got more good-guy Haitians killed in his pump fake of a non-invasion back in '94 than anyone inside Haiti has since the Duvaliers.

  • bassiebassie 11,710 Posts
    I am in no position to answer any of these questions.

    You say clean slate. I say little foundation, not enough history and certainly lacking in experience.
    Anyone who does not agree with you is disconnected.
    On and on we can go.

    I am not comfortable with the position you have adopted in this thread and feel nothing can be gained by getting into a conversation with you, especially due to the way you frame your questions and arguments.

    Like everyone else on this Board, I wish the best for Haiti. But, I do not assume to know the exact route to its health or want to be so arrogant as to dictate what it should look like.

  • HarveyCanalHarveyCanal "a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
    bassie said:
    I am in no position to answer any of these questions.

    You say clean slate, I say little foundation, not enough history and certianly lacking in experience.
    Anyone who does not agree with you is disconnected.
    On and on we can go.

    Because he does have the foundation and the history and more experience working within Haiti than y'all can apparently conceive. To ignore all the work and goodwill Wyclef has built in Haiti over the past decade indeed falls under the category of disconnected. The youth don't just support him because of his celebrity. They've seen him as a leader long before his announcement of running for prez.


    I am not comfortable with the position you have adopted in this thread and feel nothing can be gained by getting into a conversation with you, especially due to the way you frame your questions and arguments.

    It's because this is family business to me. It's because I'm familiar with the background that y'all keep admitting to being ignorant of. It's because I clearly know things about the situation that you can't receive by only looking to the mainstream US/Brit/French media to tell you about. Sorry if I come across as arrogant, but I speak factually as someone who has seen this coming all alomg.

    Remember how I immediately defended Wyclef from the Smoking Gun criticims long before he threw his name in the presidential hat? There's no hesitation for me because I blindly support Wyclef as a perfect individual beyond reproach. My response is resolute and immediate because this movement has been building for quite some time and it makes perfect sense for Haiti. Maybe not as a cynical American hipster, but as a good Haitian, Wyclef knows what the hell he's doing. That's why forward-thinking Haitians who actually need the help he is offering support him.

    And I'm not trying to bash anyone personally on this. But again, y'all have seemingly bit the classically constructed propaganda hook, line, and sinker. And whether I'm doing a good job convincing you or not, I'm giving you the real deal in so many words, period. If that offends you, then plaese to just stay on the sidelines, because in Haiti these discussions don't just get offensive but also very bloody.

  • dayday 9,611 Posts
    HarveyCanal said:
    I blindly support Wyclef as a perfect individual beyond reproach.

    Jesus Christ (no pun-o).

    I think that about wraps this thread up.

  • HarveyCanalHarveyCanal "a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
    day said:
    HarveyCanal said:
    I blindly support Wyclef as a perfect individual beyond reproach.

    Jesus Christ (no pun-o).

    I think that about wraps this thread up.

    Maybe I didn't word that the best I could...but I was making the opposite point. I have all sorts of questions and criticisms of Wyclef. They just aren't the same ones y'al seem so stuck on.

  • bassiebassie 11,710 Posts
    HarveyCanal said:


    And I'm not trying to bash anyone personally on this. But again, y'all have seemingly bit the classically constructed propaganda hook, line, and sinker. And whether I'm doing a good job convincing you or not, I'm giving you the real deal in so many words, period. If that offends you, then plaese to just stay on the sidelines, because in Haiti these discussions don't just get offensive but also very bloody.

    lol - Oh brother.
    What bitter irony there is in you, a middle-class white American citizen, dismissing all opposing viewpoints - even those of Haitians - for what you think is best for Haiti.
    You need to take step back and ask yourself; this self-appointed role I've taken on, am I helping or hindering?

    Again, I hope for nothing but better days for Haiti.

  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,517 Posts
    The more I hear from HC and WJ the more surprised I am that HC supports him.

    He is campaigning from NYC.

    He does not live in Haiti.
    He has no plans to move to Haiti.

    I have to think that Haitians, ones who actually live in Haiti, would want a Haitian president, and not an American rapper who works as a corporate shill.

    The elections will give us the answer...
    If WJ wins,
    If he loses, it was because of US interference.

  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,517 Posts
    He reminds me of Ahmed Chalabi.

  • HarveyCanalHarveyCanal "a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
    bassie said:
    HarveyCanal said:


    And I'm not trying to bash anyone personally on this. But again, y'all have seemingly bit the classically constructed propaganda hook, line, and sinker. And whether I'm doing a good job convincing you or not, I'm giving you the real deal in so many words, period. If that offends you, then plaese to just stay on the sidelines, because in Haiti these discussions don't just get offensive but also very bloody.

    lol - Oh brother.
    What bitter irony there is in you, a middle-class white American citizen, dismissing all opposing viewpoints - even those of Haitians - for what you think is best for Haiti.
    You need to take step back and ask yourself; this self-appointed role I've taken on, am I helping or hindering?

    Again, I hope for nothing but better days for Haiti.

    I'm taking my cues directly from Haiti. You on the other hand are taking your cues directly from the media component of an enemy nation to Haiti. And I'm not dismissing opposing views. I'm recognizing them as the same sort of myopic propaganda devices that worked to justify the illegal kidnapping of Aristide. There's a huge difference there.

    But yes, why do I even bother posting this shit here? I know full well that I'm in the right, but y'all aren't in a place to see beyond your conditioning...so oh well. Anyway, this will be my last post in this thread.

  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,517 Posts
    HC, when you talk about all the good that WJ has done in Haiti, are you talking about him personally going there and doing good?
    Or are you talking about Yele doing good through the people and organizations it supports in Haiti?

    Honest question.

  • HarveyCanalHarveyCanal "a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
    LaserWolf said:
    HC, when you talk about all the good that WJ has done in Haiti, are you talking about him personally going there and doing good?
    Or are you talking about Yele doing good through the people and organizations it supports in Haiti?

    Honest question.

    Both...and now, I'm really out.

  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,517 Posts
    What other entertainers would the soulstrut community like to see in office.
    Charles Barkley, governor of Alabama?
    Will.i.am Governor of Georgia?
    Sean Penn Mayor of LA?


    Doesn't have to be serious ones, you can do jokes like Jesse Ventura Gov of MN or Arnold Schwarzenegger Gov of CA.

  • faux_rillzfaux_rillz 14,343 Posts
    Here's a good investigative piece in the Times:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/17/world/americas/17haiti.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all

    But Y??le needed a way to account for $250,000 that Mr. Jean, through the check to Telemax, had used to help cover the costs of a carnival float, Mr. Rawal said.

    The float featured Mr. Jean in a frilly blouse and gilded epaulettes as Jean-Jacques Dessalines, the Haitian revolutionary hero. Mr. Jean also imported a lion for the spectacle, keeping it in the parking lot of the Montana Hotel, now destroyed, where the kitchen crew fed the beast sirloin steaks.

  • Wyclef Jean said to be out of Haiti presidential race




    Haitian-born hip-hop star Wyclef Jean???s bid to become the next president of Haiti has apparently been quashed.

    There are 34 presidential contenders and Haiti???s provisional electoral council is due to decide on the final list of candidates on Friday.

    A member of Haiti???s provisional electoral council told Reuters on Thursday that Mr. Jean was not on the list of approved candidates who satisfy legal requirements to run in the election.

    The comments came after Mr. Jean met with Haitian President Rene Preval for more than two hours on Thursday.

    Mr. Jean told the Associated Press that he felt the exchange with Rene Preval was positive.

    ???I feel good,??? the former Fugees frontman said. ???I feel that the president that I voted for five years ago is the same person that was sitting in front of me today.???

    The country???s electoral council, which is known as the CEP, was supposed to release the presidential candidate list on Tuesday, but postponed the decision.

    For several days, Haitians, bloggers and international media have speculated whether Mr. Jean will be on the list. Under Haitian law, candidates for president must reside in the country for five years prior to taking office.

    After meeting with Mr. Preval, Mr. Jean was confident that he will be allowed to campaign.

    ???It looks like it's leaning that way,??? Mr. Jean said.

    While Reuters news agency was reporting Mr. Jean???s absence from the list, a spokesman for the CEP, Richardson Dumel, told the Associated Press on Thursday evening that ???the list is not yet final??? and added that he cannot disclose who has made the cut.

    [...]


    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/americas/wyclef-jean-out-of-haiti-presidential-race/article1679059/?cmpid=tgc

  • DrWuDrWu 4,021 Posts
    faux_rillz said:
    Here's a good investigative piece in the Times:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/17/world/americas/17haiti.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all

    But Y??le needed a way to account for $250,000 that Mr. Jean, through the check to Telemax, had used to help cover the costs of a carnival float, Mr. Rawal said.

    The float featured Mr. Jean in a frilly blouse and gilded epaulettes as Jean-Jacques Dessalines, the Haitian revolutionary hero. Mr. Jean also imported a lion for the spectacle, keeping it in the parking lot of the Montana Hotel, now destroyed, where the kitchen crew fed the beast sirloin steaks.

    The article confirms opinons on both sides of this debate. Harvey should feel vindicated that the article confirms that Yele is operating outside the sphere of large NGO thus Penn's lack of awareness of Yele's work. Those of us who had questions about Wyclef's receiving monies for his work with Yele for things like PSAs with Jolie and Damon are even more concerned now that Wyclef's own people admit they seem improper.

    Looks like it's all gonna be academic as Wyclef clearly does not meet the residency requirements.
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