I already explained all that needs to be explained. Wyclef is Haitian. The Haitian people believe in him. And his presidency would provide a degree of protection for Haitians against American intervention like there has never been before. That is what's so crucial to this that so many of you are overlooking/failing to comprehend. It's a completely different paradigm, so applying your same American perspective...that isn't even working for us here...is all kinds of faulty.
but could'nt this level of protection be provided by a better suited candidate
one with governing and International relations experience
i wish wyclef was supporting a good candidate instead of running himself
credible world leader he is not...and i like the guy
i mean my boss vox sambou is a creyol rapper
he runs a community center,a degree in law and has had many meetings in ottawa with the governor general's office
he has his haitian citizenship in line and runs a school in Limb??
i would never consider him for the presedency but it give's you a matter of comparison
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
Only Wyclef can do this. His name is too big internationally not to take advantage of. He's the most famous Haitian in the world, even more than Aristide by this point. And again, the protection from malignant intervention he could provide Haiti, that Aristide wasn't able to muster as a Haititan-only, is the most important issue facing Haiti the past 50 years. He would likely be a figurehead, and don't miss that the US is scared to death that he's going to team up with Lavalas, but this is the chance of a lifetime.
Penn laying pipe to your boy Wyclef, Harvey. Seems like he contradicts your main point that Wyclef will not be an American (corporate) puppet.
Penn also questioned Jean's motives for running for office, speculating that corporate interests that are "enamored" of the singer have pushed him into campaigning with promises of support ??? in the form of underpaid yet much-needed jobs in the country ??? which shields their own opportunism.
"Right now, I worry that this is a campaign that is more about a vision of flying around the world talking to people, it's certainly not about the youth drafting him," Penn said. "I would be quite sure that this was an influence of corporations here in the United States and private individuals that may well have capitalized on his will to see himself flying around the world doing that."
As a result, Penn wants the media to keep an extra close eye on his campaign donors.
"This is somebody who's going to receive an enormous amount of his support, if he continues this campaign, from the United States. I have to say, I'm very suspicious of it, simply because he, as an ambassador-at-large, has been virtually silent. For those of us in Haiti, he has been a non-presence."
Well, except for when he was a very, very big presence indeed.
"I want to see someone who's really, really willing to sacrifice for their country and not just someone who I personally saw with a vulgar entourage of vehicles that demonstrated a wealth in Haiti that, in context, I felt, a very obscene demonstration."
And while he's careful to note that he has nothing personal against Wyclef, he's just as careful to explain that one of the reasons for that is that he's spent the past few months in Haiti ??? and Jean, for all his posturing, apparently hasn't.
"One of the reasons I don't know much about Wyclef Jean is I haven't seen or heard anything in these last six months that I've been in Haiti. I think he's an important voice, I hope he doesn't sacrifice that voice by taking the eye off the very devastating realities off the ground and the very different strategic future it's got in putting itself back together."
Penn also called for a much more thorough investigation into Jean's finances in the wake of mounting reports earlier this year that he diverted $400,000 of relief money from his Y??le Haiti foundation to his own personal account. Jean denied the accusations in a flood of tears earlier this year.
"That has to be looked into," Penn said. Also worth looking into? The Smoking Gun's report this week that the IRS filed three tax liens totaling $2.1 million against him for unpaid taxes.
Wyclef's answer so far? "There is no situation of Wyclef Jean that we will ignore," the third-person-loving star told CNN. "We respect the IRS very much.
As for Pras, Jean's former bandmate, he was slightly less damning in his dissention from Wyclef's campaign, but no less a non-supporter. In a simple statement released yesterday, Pras announced that he was supporting Jean's competition instead.
"I endorse Michel Martell as the next president of Haiti because he is the most competent candidate for the job."
Oh, well. There's still a chance he can secure that Lauryn Hill swing vote.
?? 2010 E! Entertainment Television, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
This didn't start with an earthquake. For Sean Penn to be speaking like that is out of line. Yele works in areas that the big groups never touch, that is well known. Plus, just let the people of Haiti speak...it's their country.
I'd also say yes, look where Wyclef's funding comes from and whether not he's truly going to represent the Haitian people. But if he's got the populace behind him, what the hell is Sean Penn so afraid of? Not being seen as the biggest celebrity philanthropist to Haiti?
I already explained all that needs to be explained. Wyclef is Haitian. The Haitian people believe in him.
I dont know if the belief of the "people" is grounds enough to justify a reliable candidacy though. But i think the idea of a popular vote is fucking retarded, but i look down on the vast majority. i stay drinkin that hater-ade.
HarveyCanal said:
And his presidency would provide a degree of protection for Haitians against American intervention like there has never been before. That is what's so crucial to this that so many of you are overlooking/failing to comprehend. It's a completely different paradigm, so applying your same American perspective...that isn't even working for us here...is all kinds of faulty.
I am definitely in the not comprehending camp here, how is Wyclef able to provide this far more than any other candidate?
I don't know enough to weigh in on this in any specific fashion, but it's worthwhile to point out that many terrible leaders have been popular, over the course of history. Cult of personality is not in itself a reason to elect anyone.
I don't know enough to weigh in on this in any specific fashion, but it's worthwhile to point out that many terrible leaders have been popular, over the course of history. Cult of personality is not in itself a reason to elect anyone.
WHY, JUST LOOK AT OBAMA (kidding)
To paraphrase Nietzsche, people would rather follow a charismatic leader to their doom than a boring functionary to prosperity.
his presidency would provide a degree of protection for Haitians against American intervention like there has never been before.
Explain this - you've said it twice now but I don't get how Wyclef would be more effective - than say, an existing Haitian politician - in shunting out American interventionism, especially if Haiti is still going to be dependent on economic aid that American interest help control.
Unlike Aristide, Wyclef has a voice outside of Haiti.
So he can go tell the media when corporates interfere, or, gasp, sing a song about it? I'm not buying it, Harv.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
smoking_robot said:
I am definitely in the not comprehending camp here, how is Wyclef able to provide this far more than any other candidate?
Dude, Aristide was straight kidnapped from his presidential quarters in the middle of the night by US officials and forced to go to South Africa...for no valid reason...and hardly anyone outside of Haiti even batted an eye.
Imagine that, if you can...Obama being kidnapped from the Whitehouse by a foreign nation. World War III would immediately ensue.
With Wyclef being such a well known international celebrity, it would be much more difficult for US intervention in Haiti to engage its usual shennanigans without someone from the international community crying foul.
That alone would be a HUUUUUUUGE step in the right direction for Haiti.
I already explained all that needs to be explained. Wyclef is Haitian. The Haitian people believe in him. And his presidency would provide a degree of protection for Haitians against American intervention like there has never been before. That is what's so crucial to this that so many of you are overlooking/failing to comprehend. It's a completely different paradigm, so applying your same American perspective...that isn't even working for us here...is all kinds of faulty.
There would be no need for US intervention in Haiti if WJ were president.
He is an USA raised and trained stealth candidate.
Hasn't lived in Haiti since he was 9.
His fate is not hinged on Haiti succeeding or failing, he could release a comeback lp either way.
I think claims that he is a great and famous world renowned rapper and leader are a bit overblown.
I am guessing here, but my guess is that, Hillary Clinton and her staff know the leading Haitian candidates for president but need a memo to bring them up to speed on who Wyclef and the Fugees were and why they should care. The same is most likely true for her counterparts in governments around the world.
That is unless; he was selected by the Obama administration and their corporate backers to represent their interests in Haiti.
All that said, I would support whoever the Haitians elected and oppose the type of intervention by the US government we have seen in the recent and distant past.
Shit, if Californians cared enough to institute a recall campaign AND make Arnold governor, I can't see what's wrong with Haitians exercising their right to vote for whoever they want.
is anyone in here saying Haitians don't have the right to vote for whomever they want?
Project Blow(ed) as it were. Again he brings up some very interesting questions about Wyclef's candidacy, which I bet will not happen due to the residency requirements. I wonder what Harvey makes of Wyclef's support of the ouster of Aristide.
Shit, if Californians cared enough to institute a recall campaign AND make Arnold governor, I can't see what's wrong with Haitians exercising their right to vote for whoever they want.
is anyone in here saying Haitians don't have the right to vote for whomever they want?
I wasn't suggesting anyone was. My point was more a variation on "Toute nation a le gouvernement qu???elle merite.???
As much as Wyclef might gain international attention and even support, what matters most is what the people of Haiti NEED for a leader. The only story that comes to my mind was when George Weah was running for president of Liberia after Charles Taylor was removed. As much as he was a well-known soccer player and humanitarian, his popularity did not come from his politics. If he had won, Liberia would be in even a worse shape than the shape he had met it in. Ellen Johnson Sirleaf wasn't the popular choice, but she was the better of the two choices. I just want to know who is running against Wyclef.
Project Blow(ed) as it were. Again he brings up some very interesting questions about Wyclef's candidacy, which I bet will not happen due to the residency requirements. I wonder what Harvey makes of Wyclef's support of the ouster of Aristide.
Wyclef, as quoted in that piece: "after Jan. 12th, I would say over 50 percent of the population is a youth population"
Maybe he's done the electoral math to figure he's got a much better shot with a younger voting bloc. I'm curious how Haitian editorials are treating his candidacy.
Project Blow(ed) as it were. Again he brings up some very interesting questions about Wyclef's candidacy, which I bet will not happen due to the residency requirements. I wonder what Harvey makes of Wyclef's support of the ouster of Aristide.
Wyclef, as quoted in that piece: "after Jan. 12th, I would say over 50 percent of the population is a youth population"
Maybe he's done the electoral math to figure he's got a much better shot with a younger voting bloc. I'm curious how Haitian editorials are treating his candidacy.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
DrWu said:
Project Blow(ed) as it were. Again he brings up some very interesting questions about Wyclef's candidacy, which I bet will not happen due to the residency requirements. I wonder what Harvey makes of Wyclef's support of the ouster of Aristide.
Project Blow(ed) as it were. Again he brings up some very interesting questions about Wyclef's candidacy, which I bet will not happen due to the residency requirements. I wonder what Harvey makes of Wyclef's support of the ouster of Aristide.
Writer is not Haitian and all he uses as resources are MTV News, Sean Penn, Bill Clinton, and The Smoking Gun.
Plaese to leave Haiti alone, scurvy dogs.
Smoking Gun posted facts about the liens. What you believe that means is up to you. But those liens exist period.
Penn has been on the ground since the earthquake. I suggest you watch his hour long interview with Charlie Rose and then start drawing conclusions about whether or not he is for real. I believe that his concerns about corporate influence on Wyclef are legit and should be explored not dismissed out of hand.
Are you saying that Wyclef didn't support Ariside's removal? Here's the direct quote from then.
"The country's in an uproar, it's not safe," he told MTV at the time. "But for the safety of the country and to stop the violence it has to be a situation where he steps down. If the president steps down, there will be some form of negotiation with the opposition force." (Guardian)
All that aside I think it is entirely possible that Wyclef is a good guy who is doing good things. Apart from you and your family's vouching for him I have heard little else about what he had done (does). Perhaps you can point us to other information that will illuminate the situation to a greater degree?
Comments
it says bradley is a rhodes scholar who has degrees from princeton and oxford. i liked him, too bad he fell off the national stage.
Absurd comparison.
Bradley was known as a Senator long before he was a presidential candidate.
And he was know to have aspirations to public service before he even played in the NBA by anybody that read A Sense of Where You Are.
Being an athlete or entertainer does not preclude being a serious candidate, but it is also not a qualification.
AGAIN: Wyclef can't even run his own vanity foundation.
Who was comparing Bill Bradley to Wyclef?!
but could'nt this level of protection be provided by a better suited candidate
one with governing and International relations experience
i wish wyclef was supporting a good candidate instead of running himself
credible world leader he is not...and i like the guy
i mean my boss vox sambou is a creyol rapper
he runs a community center,a degree in law and has had many meetings in ottawa with the governor general's office
he has his haitian citizenship in line and runs a school in Limb??
i would never consider him for the presedency but it give's you a matter of comparison
http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2010/08/06/2010-08-06_pras_not_endorsing_former_fugees_bandmate_wyclef_jean_for_president_of_haiti.html
Penn also questioned Jean's motives for running for office, speculating that corporate interests that are "enamored" of the singer have pushed him into campaigning with promises of support ??? in the form of underpaid yet much-needed jobs in the country ??? which shields their own opportunism.
"Right now, I worry that this is a campaign that is more about a vision of flying around the world talking to people, it's certainly not about the youth drafting him," Penn said. "I would be quite sure that this was an influence of corporations here in the United States and private individuals that may well have capitalized on his will to see himself flying around the world doing that."
As a result, Penn wants the media to keep an extra close eye on his campaign donors.
"This is somebody who's going to receive an enormous amount of his support, if he continues this campaign, from the United States. I have to say, I'm very suspicious of it, simply because he, as an ambassador-at-large, has been virtually silent. For those of us in Haiti, he has been a non-presence."
Well, except for when he was a very, very big presence indeed.
"I want to see someone who's really, really willing to sacrifice for their country and not just someone who I personally saw with a vulgar entourage of vehicles that demonstrated a wealth in Haiti that, in context, I felt, a very obscene demonstration."
And while he's careful to note that he has nothing personal against Wyclef, he's just as careful to explain that one of the reasons for that is that he's spent the past few months in Haiti ??? and Jean, for all his posturing, apparently hasn't.
"One of the reasons I don't know much about Wyclef Jean is I haven't seen or heard anything in these last six months that I've been in Haiti. I think he's an important voice, I hope he doesn't sacrifice that voice by taking the eye off the very devastating realities off the ground and the very different strategic future it's got in putting itself back together."
Penn also called for a much more thorough investigation into Jean's finances in the wake of mounting reports earlier this year that he diverted $400,000 of relief money from his Y??le Haiti foundation to his own personal account. Jean denied the accusations in a flood of tears earlier this year.
"That has to be looked into," Penn said. Also worth looking into? The Smoking Gun's report this week that the IRS filed three tax liens totaling $2.1 million against him for unpaid taxes.
Wyclef's answer so far? "There is no situation of Wyclef Jean that we will ignore," the third-person-loving star told CNN. "We respect the IRS very much.
As for Pras, Jean's former bandmate, he was slightly less damning in his dissention from Wyclef's campaign, but no less a non-supporter. In a simple statement released yesterday, Pras announced that he was supporting Jean's competition instead.
"I endorse Michel Martell as the next president of Haiti because he is the most competent candidate for the job."
Oh, well. There's still a chance he can secure that Lauryn Hill swing vote.
?? 2010 E! Entertainment Television, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
I'd also say yes, look where Wyclef's funding comes from and whether not he's truly going to represent the Haitian people. But if he's got the populace behind him, what the hell is Sean Penn so afraid of? Not being seen as the biggest celebrity philanthropist to Haiti?
I dont know if the belief of the "people" is grounds enough to justify a reliable candidacy though. But i think the idea of a popular vote is fucking retarded, but i look down on the vast majority. i stay drinkin that hater-ade.
I am definitely in the not comprehending camp here, how is Wyclef able to provide this far more than any other candidate?
WHY, JUST LOOK AT OBAMA (kidding)
To paraphrase Nietzsche, people would rather follow a charismatic leader to their doom than a boring functionary to prosperity.
He must have been a big NBA fan.
So he can go tell the media when corporates interfere, or, gasp, sing a song about it? I'm not buying it, Harv.
Dude, Aristide was straight kidnapped from his presidential quarters in the middle of the night by US officials and forced to go to South Africa...for no valid reason...and hardly anyone outside of Haiti even batted an eye.
Imagine that, if you can...Obama being kidnapped from the Whitehouse by a foreign nation. World War III would immediately ensue.
With Wyclef being such a well known international celebrity, it would be much more difficult for US intervention in Haiti to engage its usual shennanigans without someone from the international community crying foul.
That alone would be a HUUUUUUUGE step in the right direction for Haiti.
There would be no need for US intervention in Haiti if WJ were president.
He is an USA raised and trained stealth candidate.
Hasn't lived in Haiti since he was 9.
His fate is not hinged on Haiti succeeding or failing, he could release a comeback lp either way.
I think claims that he is a great and famous world renowned rapper and leader are a bit overblown.
I am guessing here, but my guess is that, Hillary Clinton and her staff know the leading Haitian candidates for president but need a memo to bring them up to speed on who Wyclef and the Fugees were and why they should care. The same is most likely true for her counterparts in governments around the world.
That is unless; he was selected by the Obama administration and their corporate backers to represent their interests in Haiti.
KEEPIN IT REAL! :/
ps. LETS MAKE BONO THE PRESIDENT OF THE WORLD.
is anyone in here saying Haitians don't have the right to vote for whomever they want?
Project Blow(ed)
I wasn't suggesting anyone was. My point was more a variation on "Toute nation a le gouvernement qu???elle merite.???
this can't be overstated enough...
Wyclef, as quoted in that piece: "after Jan. 12th, I would say over 50 percent of the population is a youth population"
Maybe he's done the electoral math to figure he's got a much better shot with a younger voting bloc. I'm curious how Haitian editorials are treating his candidacy.
http://www.haitiantimes.com/ (you have to sign up to view shit though.)
Writer is not Haitian and all he uses as resources are MTV News, Sean Penn, Bill Clinton, and The Smoking Gun.
Plaese to leave Haiti alone, scurvy dogs.
Smoking Gun posted facts about the liens. What you believe that means is up to you. But those liens exist period.
Penn has been on the ground since the earthquake. I suggest you watch his hour long interview with Charlie Rose and then start drawing conclusions about whether or not he is for real. I believe that his concerns about corporate influence on Wyclef are legit and should be explored not dismissed out of hand.
Are you saying that Wyclef didn't support Ariside's removal? Here's the direct quote from then.
"The country's in an uproar, it's not safe," he told MTV at the time. "But for the safety of the country and to stop the violence it has to be a situation where he steps down. If the president steps down, there will be some form of negotiation with the opposition force." (Guardian)
All that aside I think it is entirely possible that Wyclef is a good guy who is doing good things. Apart from you and your family's vouching for him I have heard little else about what he had done (does). Perhaps you can point us to other information that will illuminate the situation to a greater degree?