Republicans FTLose.

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  • BrianBrian 7,618 Posts
    I think people (not necessarily here, but the public at large) are mistakenly assuming this fixes health care.

    I stopped into my neighborhood gas station this morning to find the clerk discussing Health Care with a customer. The clerk stated that now everyone would be required to purchase health insurance and the customer said "Don't believe that Media BS, health care is now free for everyone".

    SMH
    Are you really surprised shit like this happens with all the misinformation flying around from both sides on this?

  • RockadelicRockadelic Out Digging 13,993 Posts
    I think people (not necessarily here, but the public at large) are mistakenly assuming this fixes health care.

    I stopped into my neighborhood gas station this morning to find the clerk discussing Health Care with a customer. The clerk stated that now everyone would be required to purchase health insurance and the customer said "Don't believe that Media BS, health care is now free for everyone".

    SMH
    Are you really surprised shit like this happens with all the misinformation flying around from both sides on this?

    Who do you suspect is putting out misinformation like "Health Care is now free for everyone"??

  • mannybolonemannybolone Los Angeles, CA 15,025 Posts
    I think people (not necessarily here, but the public at large) are mistakenly assuming this fixes health care.

    I stopped into my neighborhood gas station this morning to find the clerk discussing Health Care with a customer. The clerk stated that now everyone would be required to purchase health insurance and the customer said "Don't believe that Media BS, health care is now free for everyone".

    SMH
    Are you really surprised shit like this happens with all the misinformation flying around from both sides on this?

    Who do you suspect is putting out misinformation like "Health Care is now free for everyone"??

    Socialists, natch.

  • GaryGary 3,982 Posts
    The average american is fatter, not because the average american is hungrier, or lazier, or just doesn't care, but because the food offered to the average american has changed drastically in the last 20,30,40 years.

    Food makers, and their marketing tactics are the worst. You can't go into a store and buy a loaf of wheat bread anymore. You face a wall of different bread choices, 1/2 of those might be wheat, and unless you actually read and compare each of the ingredients and nutritional information you won't know which one is good and which one isn't. For example you might pick the one that says "Healthy Smarts Multi-Grain Bread- NO CHOLESTEROL!" and it is on sale and you think "well that sounds healthy. But a bread loaf can be called whatever the company wants to call it. "Smart Start" cereal, for example isn't any healthier that fruit loops because its loaded with sugar. Multi-Grain means NOTHING, except that it was made with more than 1 grain, and if they were refined then you might as well be eating white bread. and only animal products like meat and milk have cholesterol, so putting "NO CHOLESTEROL!" is like NO SHIT. But to the average person who wants a whole grain bread maybe because those whole grains and fiber will help with their cholesterol, will go in and buy basically junk because its marketed as a health food and it isn't.

    There are some cups of real fruit yogurt with more sugar than a twix bar - I think its yoplait.

    Margarine is just partially hydrated soybean oil and is some of the worst shit you can put in your body.

    So even if you want to start eating healthy, if you don't diligently read the nutrition label and ingredients on EVERY SINGLE THING you buy, you might get duped. And even then you have to know what to look for.

    Its hard to eat right, not because the food doesn't taste good, but because marketing in grocery stores and even in resturants is EVIL and will trick you into buying crap.

    Like most salads in restaurants are evil. The CPK asian chicken salad has something like 1300 calories. You'd be better off pigging out on mcdonalds than eating that.

    The bread isle, and the cereal isles are seriously the worst though. Here's a challenge- go into your local Vons (or whatever supermarket) and try to find the healthiest loaf of bread. How long do you think it would take you? Same thing with cereal. Even if you start out with the ones called "healthy" and "smart" or "heart" or whatever, you are going to be in there a long time trying to find ones that aren't loaded in sugar, or fiber deprived refined flour.


    Its fucked up.

    Its easy to say fat people are lazy and should just exercise and eat right. But plenty of fat people out there DO exercise, and try to eat right, and don't know why they are still fat, and its because we put CRAP into our bodies because we don't know any better.

    And I've only recently started figuring all this shit out. I thought all wheat breads were the same, and boy was I wrong. And thats just the start... it is ridiculous. Americans are spending more than ever on exercise gimmicks, gym memberships, diet plans, etc, so why are we getting fatter than ever? saying everybody is just "lazy" doesn't cut it any more.

    rant over.

  • Jonny_PaycheckJonny_Paycheck 17,825 Posts
    Good poast - seriously.

  • Well, the food companies don't have any lobbyists, so I don't know how this is happening...

  • Lucious_FoxLucious_Fox 2,479 Posts
    stop eating -

    three meals a day is an illusion.

  • HorseleechHorseleech 3,830 Posts
    F*ck you, and this place.

    Doesn't it suck when medical consensus and facts get in the way of a good insult?

    I think the insults may have been out of line, but your 'facts,' started with, "i'm talking to a guy in an airport bar...' I mean, come on with the righteous truthiness nonsense. That is tough to take seriously...

    Fair enough, but it was only presented as an anecdote. And, honestly, that's about the only place I'd end up talking to somebody like that.

    The link, however, pretty much confirms what this guy said.

  • mannybolonemannybolone Los Angeles, CA 15,025 Posts
    "Is the Obesity Epidemic for Real?"

    http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=354668519

    Well worth a listen.

  • Lucious_FoxLucious_Fox 2,479 Posts
    Well, the food companies don't have any lobbyists, so I don't know how this is happening...

    what about Beef and Dairy cats?

  • BrianBrian 7,618 Posts
    I think people (not necessarily here, but the public at large) are mistakenly assuming this fixes health care.

    I stopped into my neighborhood gas station this morning to find the clerk discussing Health Care with a customer. The clerk stated that now everyone would be required to purchase health insurance and the customer said "Don't believe that Media BS, health care is now free for everyone".

    SMH
    Are you really surprised shit like this happens with all the misinformation flying around from both sides on this?

    Who do you suspect is putting out misinformation like "Health Care is now free for everyone"??
    Not one to speculate but I'd imagine opponents of the current health care reform have more to gain by spreading that type of misinformation right now.

  • ladydayladyday 623 Posts
    The interesting thing is that now that the federal government has taken on health care, will they eliminate the corn subsidy that makes it so much cheaper for companies to use high fructose corn syrup in their products? As long as you are checking out the cereal aisle in Gary's exercise above, try looking for items that DON'T contain HFCS and see how long you are standing there.

    The annual per-capita consumption of caloric sweeteners has increased by 40 pounds in the last 40 years, and high fructose corn syrup (HFCS) accounts for 81% of the 83 additional calories the average American consumes each day from sweeteners alone. (Tufts study)

  • mannybolonemannybolone Los Angeles, CA 15,025 Posts

  • BrianBrian 7,618 Posts
    The interesting thing is that now that the federal government has taken on health care, will they eliminate the corn subsidy that makes it so much cheaper for companies to use high fructose corn syrup in their products? As long as you are checking out the cereal aisle in Gary's exercise above, try looking for items that DON'T contain HFCS and see how long you are standing there.

    The annual per-capita consumption of caloric sweeteners has increased by 40 pounds in the last 40 years, and high fructose corn syrup (HFCS) accounts for 81% of the 83 additional calories the average American consumes each day from sweeteners alone. (Tufts study)
    We might be banning ice cream and candy in public schools here (Hawaii.) Rockadelic thoughts?!?!?!

  • Lucious_FoxLucious_Fox 2,479 Posts
    The interesting thing is that now that the federal government has taken on health care, will they eliminate the corn subsidy that makes it so much cheaper for companies to use high fructose corn syrup in their products?

    That's a different battle. The USDA and CONAGRA are another story.

  • RockadelicRockadelic Out Digging 13,993 Posts
    We might be banning ice cream and candy in public schools here (Hawaii.) Rockadelic thoughts?!?!?!

    Not a problem.....I want schools to teach, not be a Candy Store.

  • HorseleechHorseleech 3,830 Posts
    The interesting thing is that now that the federal government has taken on health care, will they eliminate the corn subsidy that makes it so much cheaper for companies to use high fructose corn syrup in their products?

    That's a different battle. The USDA and CONAGRA are another story.

    Yeah, and as I recall, the corn lobby is the most powerful lobby in Washington.

    High fructose corn syrup isn't even legal in many countries.

  • barjesusbarjesus 872 Posts
    Until Americans start cooking for themselves again, there's going to be an obesity epidemic. You can't (as far as I can tell) eat a healthy diet that is prepared for you by stuffing as much corn, sugar, and fat as possible, into a microwaveable, golden-brown flavor-tray.

  • mannybolonemannybolone Los Angeles, CA 15,025 Posts
    Until Americans start cooking for themselves again, there's going to be an obesity epidemic. You can't (as far as I can tell) eat a healthy diet that is prepared for you by stuffing as much corn, sugar, and fat as possible, into a microwaveable, golden-brown flavor-tray.

    And this would mean some profound changes in the relationship Americans have towards work hours.

    Trying to "solve" obesity is liking trying to solve poverty. I don't think either is completely structural or completely cultural. There's no magic bullet here because the causes are so numerous and complex that you'd have to make serious changes in not just individual behavior but also economic, social and political structures to really bring about significant change.

    For me, my skepticism around the obesity "epidemic" is largely conditioned about how curiously similar it is to the scapegoating of other communities, whether you're talking about the poor, the Brown/Black, immigrants, etc. Maybe that's just a coincidence but...

  • GaryGary 3,982 Posts
    The interesting thing is that now that the federal government has taken on health care, will they eliminate the corn subsidy that makes it so much cheaper for companies to use high fructose corn syrup in their products? As long as you are checking out the cereal aisle in Gary's exercise above, try looking for items that DON'T contain HFCS and see how long you are standing there.

    The annual per-capita consumption of caloric sweeteners has increased by 40 pounds in the last 40 years, and high fructose corn syrup (HFCS) accounts for 81% of the 83 additional calories the average American consumes each day from sweeteners alone. (Tufts study)

    Well, HFCS isn't any better or worse than regular sugar, its just a lot cheaper because of the corn subsidies so it winds up in so much of our food. I've noticed breads now touting "No High Fructose Corn Syrup!" as if HFCS in and of itself is the lone evil. I've even seen adds from the corn lobby on TV railing against all the HFCS propoganda, and in fact you can see it all here:
    http://www.sweetsurprise.com/

    and in a way they are right- HFCS has gotten a bad rap. Its just a sweetener. Its no worse than any other sweeteners that end in -ose (dextrose,fructose or whatever). Its made of corn. And there is no magic chemical in it making people fat- its that people are eating way too much of it. And it has found its way into a lot of foods, that's true.

    You would have to have a science degree to know whats in most of our food now.
    Soy Lecithin is in so much food I started to wonder what that was, and it turns out that its just fine, but until you look it up its like, who knows?

    The box of rice crispies at my house says "Hey parents! Did you know that rice crispies makes a great bed time snack? that's because its loaded with vitamins and minerals so you can feel great about giving it to your kids" (paraphrased). That's because they "fortified" it, which means that they added some vitamins to it to make it seem healthy. Dried rice on its own has no nutritional value at all. it is empty calories. You'd be better off taking a vitamin with a glass of milk than eating rice crispies, but how would the average parent know that? If you read the blurb on the side of the box you would think you were making a healthy choice for your kids by giving them rice crispies, when the opposite is really true. You're giving them sweetend empty calories with what might as well be a multivitamin ground up and mixed in.

    a glass of orange juice has the same amount of sugar as a glass of coca-cola. Orange juice sounds healthy, but you'd be better off just eating an orange.

    gatorade is sugar water. so is snapple.

  • barjesusbarjesus 872 Posts
    Until Americans start cooking for themselves again, there's going to be an obesity epidemic. You can't (as far as I can tell) eat a healthy diet that is prepared for you by stuffing as much corn, sugar, and fat as possible, into a microwaveable, golden-brown flavor-tray.

    And this would mean some profound changes in the relationship Americans have towards work hours.

    That's exactly right.

  • Lucious_FoxLucious_Fox 2,479 Posts
    Until Americans start cooking for themselves again, there's going to be an obesity epidemic. You can't (as far as I can tell) eat a healthy diet that is prepared for you by stuffing as much corn, sugar, and fat as possible, into a microwaveable, golden-brown flavor-tray.

    And this would mean some profound changes in the relationship Americans have towards work hours.

    Trying to "solve" obesity is liking trying to solve poverty. I don't think either is completely structural or completely cultural. There's no magic bullet here because the causes are so numerous and complex that you'd have to make serious changes in not just individual behavior but also economic, social and political structures to really bring about significant change.

    For me, my skepticism around the obesity "epidemic" is largely conditioned about how curiously similar it is to the scapegoating of other communities, whether you're talking about the poor, the Brown/Black, immigrants, etc. Maybe that's just a coincidence but...

    My neighbor says she doesnt have the time to cook yet she watches tv from the time she gets home to bedtime. A good 4 hours.

    U can tell me what happened on Novelas yet you cant stir-fry some veggies?

    I feel like priorities are all out of wack.

  • RockadelicRockadelic Out Digging 13,993 Posts
    Until Americans start cooking for themselves again, there's going to be an obesity epidemic. You can't (as far as I can tell) eat a healthy diet that is prepared for you by stuffing as much corn, sugar, and fat as possible, into a microwaveable, golden-brown flavor-tray.

    And this would mean some profound changes in the relationship Americans have towards work hours.

    Trying to "solve" obesity is liking trying to solve poverty. I don't think either is completely structural or completely cultural. There's no magic bullet here because the causes are so numerous and complex that you'd have to make serious changes in not just individual behavior but also economic, social and political structures to really bring about significant change.

    For me, my skepticism around the obesity "epidemic" is largely conditioned about how curiously similar it is to the scapegoating of other communities, whether you're talking about the poor, the Brown/Black, immigrants, etc. Maybe that's just a coincidence but...

    It's all about priorities.....My Dad worked 2 jobs and drove a POS so that my Mom could stay home and raise kids. He had virtually no luxuries because he put family and everything that goes with it first and foremost. Today he's 75, retired and living a good life...he'll tell you his sacrifices were all worth it.

    I tried to do the same thing....my wife stayed home, cooked and raised our daughters. The difference between my kids and those who had both parents working is very noticeable.

    Today I find very few young people who are willing to give up luxuries in order to do the things my parents felt were important.

    Sure, I sound like a crusty old dude, but if you want to do the things that lead to a better/healthy/successful life you need to make sacrifices. And a first good step is to not measure success based on material or monetary things.

  • HorseleechHorseleech 3,830 Posts
    The interesting thing is that now that the federal government has taken on health care, will they eliminate the corn subsidy that makes it so much cheaper for companies to use high fructose corn syrup in their products? As long as you are checking out the cereal aisle in Gary's exercise above, try looking for items that DON'T contain HFCS and see how long you are standing there.

    The annual per-capita consumption of caloric sweeteners has increased by 40 pounds in the last 40 years, and high fructose corn syrup (HFCS) accounts for 81% of the 83 additional calories the average American consumes each day from sweeteners alone. (Tufts study)

    Well, HFCS isn't any better or worse than regular sugar

    There's certainly some debate on that issue, but I don't believe that's true.

    http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:cDaY...lient=firefox-a

    http://blog.taragana.com/health/2010/03/23/high-fructose-corn-syrup-worse-than-regular-sugar-20786/

    The second link is a recently published Princeton University study.

  • mannybolonemannybolone Los Angeles, CA 15,025 Posts
    Until Americans start cooking for themselves again, there's going to be an obesity epidemic. You can't (as far as I can tell) eat a healthy diet that is prepared for you by stuffing as much corn, sugar, and fat as possible, into a microwaveable, golden-brown flavor-tray.

    And this would mean some profound changes in the relationship Americans have towards work hours.

    Trying to "solve" obesity is liking trying to solve poverty. I don't think either is completely structural or completely cultural. There's no magic bullet here because the causes are so numerous and complex that you'd have to make serious changes in not just individual behavior but also economic, social and political structures to really bring about significant change.

    For me, my skepticism around the obesity "epidemic" is largely conditioned about how curiously similar it is to the scapegoating of other communities, whether you're talking about the poor, the Brown/Black, immigrants, etc. Maybe that's just a coincidence but...

    My neighbor says she doesnt have the time to cook yet she watches tv from the time she gets home to bedtime. A good 4 hours.

    U can tell me what happened on Novelas yet you cant stir-fry some veggies?

    I feel like priorities are all out of wack.

    It needs to be said: your neighbor doesn't = the rest of America. It's really f*cking easy to pick out individual examples of irresponsible behavior. But it's dangerous to conflate those examples and turn them into everyone else.

    I mean, why do you think Americans have gotten collectively heavier? There's been some random "epidemic of laziness" that's run through America through the last few decades? Call me crazy but that seems pretty unlikely.

    It seems more likely that you'd have to look at the following (and this is hardly a complete list):
    *Changes in food production and distribution
    *Changes in work hours and expectations and more importantly,
    *Changes in the job market as a result of deindustrialization and outsourcing going back to at least the 1960s.
    *The entry of women into the workforce, full-time (coupled with men NOT changing their expectations of family roles accordingly)

    I suppose "changes in leisure practices" deserves to be on that list but it's sure as hell not my #1.

    The simplest calculus I'd come up with it this:

    Food costs have fallen dramatically the last 50 years. Restaurants and food producers have increased portion sizes as a result. Consumers have increased their caloric intake without making other lifestyle changes to balance that out.

    I'm surely leaving stuff out but those three factors alone would help explain the rise in obesity rates and that's not really something you can just pin on individuals and their consumption habits.

  • GaryGary 3,982 Posts
    The interesting thing is that now that the federal government has taken on health care, will they eliminate the corn subsidy that makes it so much cheaper for companies to use high fructose corn syrup in their products? As long as you are checking out the cereal aisle in Gary's exercise above, try looking for items that DON'T contain HFCS and see how long you are standing there.

    The annual per-capita consumption of caloric sweeteners has increased by 40 pounds in the last 40 years, and high fructose corn syrup (HFCS) accounts for 81% of the 83 additional calories the average American consumes each day from sweeteners alone. (Tufts study)

    Well, HFCS isn't any better or worse than regular sugar

    There's certainly some debate on that issue, but I don't believe that's true.

    http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:cDaY...lient=firefox-a

    http://blog.taragana.com/health/2010/03/23/high-fructose-corn-syrup-worse-than-regular-sugar-20786/

    The second link is a recently published Princeton University study.

    That is interesting.

    I've started using Stevia for when I need a sweetener, but since it is marketed as a herb or supplement it doesn't have to be regulated by the FDA, which makes me nervous.

  • BrianBrian 7,618 Posts
    Until Americans start cooking for themselves again, there's going to be an obesity epidemic. You can't (as far as I can tell) eat a healthy diet that is prepared for you by stuffing as much corn, sugar, and fat as possible, into a microwaveable, golden-brown flavor-tray.

    And this would mean some profound changes in the relationship Americans have towards work hours.

    Trying to "solve" obesity is liking trying to solve poverty. I don't think either is completely structural or completely cultural. There's no magic bullet here because the causes are so numerous and complex that you'd have to make serious changes in not just individual behavior but also economic, social and political structures to really bring about significant change.

    For me, my skepticism around the obesity "epidemic" is largely conditioned about how curiously similar it is to the scapegoating of other communities, whether you're talking about the poor, the Brown/Black, immigrants, etc. Maybe that's just a coincidence but...

    It's all about priorities.....My Dad worked 2 jobs and drove a POS so that my Mom could stay home and raise kids. He had virtually no luxuries because he put family and everything that goes with it first and foremost. Today he's 75, retired and living a good life...he'll tell you his sacrifices were all worth it.

    I tried to do the same thing....my wife stayed home, cooked and raised our daughters. The difference between my kids and those who had both parents working is very noticeable.

    Today I find very few young people who are willing to give up luxuries in order to do the things my parents felt were important.

    Sure, I sound like a crusty old dude, but if you want to do the things that lead to a better/healthy/successful life you need to make sacrifices. And a first good step is to not measure success based on material or monetary things.
    BOOTSTRAPS

  • mannybolonemannybolone Los Angeles, CA 15,025 Posts

    It's all about priorities.....My Dad worked 2 jobs and drove a POS so that my Mom could stay home and raise kids.

    Rich: Let's just stop right here. This is a pretty huge before even getting into the question of "sacrificing luxuries".

    1) Who wants to work 80 hours a week if that means punishing your mind and body AND not getting to spend as much time with your family? Many people do this because they *have to*. Out of economic *necessity*. But if you didn't have to do this, who the F*ck would want to? I don't know your father but I would guess that part of why he busted his ass so is that his kids wouldn't have to work 2 jobs when they grew up.

    2) Not all women these days want to stay home and raise the kids. A lot of them want to work too because they have aspirations beyond being mothers and wives. However, that also means that family routines and lifestyles change as a consequence, especially with both parents working.

    2a) And of course, many families HAVE to work two working parents if they want to be able to have the basics of a middle class lifestyle: owning your own home, good schools, safe neighborhoods. If you can show me how one can easily do this on a *single* income, let us all in on the secret.

    None of this has to do with luxuries. These days, it's called "getting by."

  • RockadelicRockadelic Out Digging 13,993 Posts
    BOOTSTRAPS

    Not really, just realistic expectations and goals. And yeah, hard work.

    If somehow hard work/bootstraps has become a punchline it's no wonder we're fucked.

  • GaryGary 3,982 Posts
    It doesn't take any longer to cook a meal than it does to drive to a restaurant, order it, wait for it to get there, eat it, pay the bill, and drive home.

    Even if you were to go to the drive through, its still about the same.

    And cooking at home winds up being a lot cheaper than eating out - even fast food.
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