For real, how are you gonna miss Skull Snaps or the Whatnauts drums???????
Because it was done by Scratch magazine.
Oh yeah! I forgot. Lol. Your totally right here, the magazine I contacted before it even came out about writing for them about breaks etc. and they told me if I was "Funk Master Flex" I could do it but no one knows who I am! Yeah good ol' Harris Publications. wouldn't that be just great to have a Funk Flex column on digging for records etc. How cool! (Total sarcasm).
For real, how are you gonna miss Skull Snaps or the Whatnauts drums???????
Because it was done by Scratch magazine.
Oh yeah! I forgot. Lol. Your totally right here, the magazine I contacted before it even came out about writing for them about breaks etc. and they told me if I was "Funk Master Flex" I could do it but no one knows who I am! Yeah good ol' Harris Publications. wouldn't that be just great to have a Funk Flex column on digging for records etc. How cool! (Total sarcasm).
For real, how are you gonna miss Skull Snaps or the Whatnauts drums???????
Because it was done by Scratch magazine.
Oh yeah! I forgot. Lol. Your totally right here, the magazine I contacted before it even came out about writing for them about breaks etc. and they told me if I was "Funk Master Flex" I could do it but no one knows who I am! Yeah good ol' Harris Publications. wouldn't that be just great to have a Funk Flex column on digging for records etc. How cool! (Total sarcasm).
Fuck Scratch, we should all nominate, review and vote for our own "greatest breaks" list.
thats a damn good idea. We're pretty much experts here, we could make a pretty definitive list if we wanted to. I say we set up a thread where everyone just throws different breaks out there and then we set up a poll and vote. The top 50 then get placed in another poll and we reach 25 and bam there we go.
Fuck Scratch, we should all nominate, review and vote for our own "greatest breaks" list.
thats a damn good idea. We're pretty much experts here, we could make a pretty definitive list if we wanted to. I say we set up a thread where everyone just throws different breaks out there and then we set up a poll and vote. The top 50 then get placed in another poll and we reach 25 and bam there we go.
Instant mathmatical gangsta
choosing from all samples? this rowdy bunch is going to have to widdle down from prolly 7-800. what are the odds that someone gets murdered in the process?
Fuck Scratch, we should all nominate, review and vote for our own "greatest breaks" list.
thats a damn good idea. We're pretty much experts here, we could make a pretty definitive list if we wanted to. I say we set up a thread where everyone just throws different breaks out there and then we set up a poll and vote. The top 50 then get placed in another poll and we reach 25 and bam there we go.
Instant mathmatical gangsta
choosing from all samples? this rowdy bunch is going to have to widdle down from prolly 7-800. what are the odds that someone guzzo gets murdered in the process?
Since it hasn't been noted yet - this was my piece in Scratch. 90% of the list was mine though I was asked to add a few songs by my editors.
Let me start by saying that I don't take issue with people disagreeing with the list. It is the nature of lists that items have to be included and excluded and obviously, people will disagree over those decisions.
I am, however, a little disappointed that people would be so quick to hate and shit on the ENTIRE THING over a single disagreement. I'm saying this to Phill - a person from whom I've learned a great deal and have a great deal of respect for. It was startling to hear you dump on the entire list because I failed to give - in your eyes - Melvin Bliss the proper credit he deserves. I'll explain my criteria in a moment but seriously, I've seen lists of breaks/samples you've composed over the years and I would never throw the proverbial baby out with the bathwater over a single difference in opinion.
I take list-making seriously, or any attempt at codify a canon and frankly, it's an imperfect and maddening process because you're trying to stay true and maintain integrity to so many different - and at times - conflicting impulses. I'm not even talking about organizing a group consensus, I just mean deciding for yourself what is "good enough" to make a ranked list and what isn't.
The most important criteria I had with this list was balance. I didn't want to overstate any particular original artist or hip hop era and I wanted to force myself out of my comfort zone of the samples I happen to like (otherwise, this whole list would have been 88-94 shit).
As such, I had this mental scale in mind:
No more than 5 drum breaks
No more than 10 "classic" samples (i.e. pre-94)
No more than 10 contemporary samples (i.e. post-94)
(My original list was 25 and was expanded to 30 at the list minute by my editors)
Obviously, there's overlap in some cases here, but for the most part, I tried to keep to that balance as best as possible.
"Synthetic Substitution" was actually on my original list but I bumped it for a few reasons. 1) I didn't want too many pure drum breaks, 2) compared to other songs, it's really just the drum break and the rest of the song isn't that memorable and 3) in terms of sheer popularity and dopeness, I would have sooner put on Skull Snaps since I think it's a similar break and frankly, a better song. (But I left "It's a New Day" off for the same reason as 1).
It's not like I went brain dead and forgot about those two songs and their significance. Nor did I forget about "Amen Brother" or "Hihache." If I was tasked with "Top 25 Drum Breaks," well, no question, they'd be on here. But to me, "samples" meant I had to take into account more than just drums. Love it or hate it.
Of the non-drum break songs, I wanted to make sure I covered a spread of different hip hop eras and sub-genres. Hence: "Drag Rap" - a song that surely wouldn't have made most conventional diggers' list of beats n' breaks but I felt like it was important to nod to how significant that record was to the Southern bounce scene. I guess if I wasa really into drum n' bass, I could have included "Amen Brother" for the same reason but DnB ain't hip-hop (one might say the same about bounce, but let's not go there).
I also tried to avoid including the same artist twice though that was impossible if you consider JBs productions as "the same artist." There's no avoiding James Brown again and again but notice - "Payback" isn't on here and that could easily have been. Or "Blind Men." Or "Give It Up and Turn It Loose." Or a zillion other formal James Brown songs (i.e. credited to him and not just a JB production). That's also why "Atomic Dog" is here and not "Flashlight" or "More Bounce" though certainly, there are many P-Funk tracks that deserved inclusion. Shit, I could have done my 30 on just JB and P-Funk alone but that would have been rather boring, no?
There were a few sonsg I didn't have on my OG list and I was asked to include from my editors. I didn't put on anything I felt really strong should NOT be on there but in my pure, personal list, I wouldn't have kept 'em. They were:
*Shelly Manne: Infinity (great use of a sample, not a great song or even loop on its own)
*Quincy Jones: Summer In the City (not a bad song but not a great song and frankly, who else besides the Pharcyde have really even fucked with this?)
*Mohawks: Champ (awesome song but I don't think of this as essential a sampled song is as others)
Ok - let the debate continue but I'm just asking people for a little civility. If any of you had written this list, I might have respectfully disagreed with you about it but I wouldn't be out there, trying to pull your UBB card.
I personally would love to see a Soul Strut list. My humble suggestion would be similar to what Edpowers did: start with my list and then scratch out what you don't want but you have to replace them with something new.
I am, however, a little disappointed that people would be so quick to hate and shit on the ENTIRE THING over a single disagreement. I'm saying this to Phill - a person from whom I've learned a great deal and have a great deal of respect for. It was startling to hear you dump on the entire list because I failed to give - in your eyes - Melvin Bliss the proper credit he deserves. I'll explain my criteria in a moment but seriously, I've seen lists of breaks/samples you've composed over the years and I would never throw the proverbial baby out with the bathwater over a single difference in opinion.
Ohhh, damn, O-Dub... I didn't know you made that list! I honestly didn't read the article in Scratch as of yet, I was just going over the list here on Soulstrut. My bad on that, but I was giving my honest opinion on the list as I saw it (as one of the most honestly opinionated dudes in the Hip Hop journalism game I'm sure you can respect that, at least). I'd be a damn liar if I didn't say that IMO the Melvin Bliss break absolutely needs to be included in any top 30 list of breaks and samples all time, as does Skull Snaps. But there are so many breaks out there it's really hard to narrow it down to 30. And it's easy to forget an important one, too.
One thing I gotta say, though- if you notice, anytime I've ever done a top ten or top twenty list of the greatest breaks I NEVER say that these are THE top breaks, only that these are SOME of my favorites. It's like picking who's your favorite child... for me I can't really do it.
If you want to discuss this further by PM we can do that, hommie. I wasn't trying to air you out publicly.
I know you need to "SELL" magazines. Everyone knows magazine lists aren't perfect.
But, when you publish in a major magazine that is supposed to be knowledgable and very impressionable to young hip hop/break fans that "Drag Rap" is a greater sample/break then Substitution you're open to people getting a case of temporary "Break" insanity.
Again, I know it's business, but it's a shame you need to make a "Greatest" list based on things other than the sample/break being "Great".
Well, my main point is magazines suck because they assume they need readers to agree rather then learn.
There has to be some sort of criteria, wouldn't you agree? What would your criteria be, beyond that everything on the list is great?
But, when you publish in a major magazine that is supposed to be knowledgable and very impressionable to young hip hop/break fans that "Drag Rap" is a greater sample/break then Substitution you're open to people getting a case of temporary "Break" insanity.
Again, I know it's business, but it's a shame you need to make a "Greatest" list based on things other than the sample/break being "Great".
Well, my main point is magazines suck because they assume they need readers to agree rather then learn.
So he should write something YOU agree with instead of writing something READERS agree with? IMO Drag Rap is a really relevant break that teaches readers something they may not already know, as opposed to an obvious UBB type joint that has been reissued on a multitude of bootleg LPs, 12"s and comps.
There has to be some sort of criteria, wouldn't you agree? What would your criteria be, beyond that everything on the list is great?
But, when you publish in a major magazine that is supposed to be knowledgable and very impressionable to young hip hop/break fans that "Drag Rap" is a greater sample/break then Substitution you're open to people getting a case of temporary "Break" insanity.
Again, I know it's business, but it's a shame you need to make a "Greatest" list based on things other than the sample/break being "Great".
Well, my main point is magazines suck because they assume they need readers to agree rather then learn.
So he should write something YOU agree with instead of writing something READERS agree with? IMO Drag Rap is a really relevant break that teaches readers something they may not already know, as opposed to an obvious UBB type joint that has been reissued on a multitude of bootleg LPs, 12"s and comps.
No not something I agrre with. He's knowledgable on the subject. I think that's how the piece should have been written(which it was, I know it's not all up to you). Everyone on here is extremely educated on the subject. I don't think EVERYONE reading is like "man this is obvious UBB type joints."
Like I said, I KNOW they need to sell magazines and there needs be criteria. My point is, it said "Greatest". I don't think anyone would argue with Substitution being on a "Greatest" list. People would argue with Drag Rap. That to me kind of says, hey maybe it shouldn't be on there.
To sum up my point. I just thought substitution should have been on there. And it's a shame mags need to be somewhat watered down. That's all.
I got nothing but respect for O-Dub. I'm sure that's an incredibly hard piece to write for a magazine with a large general circulation.
It's all good - I'm not really that mad, but like I said, it did sting a bit. I think had Ed noted that I was behind the list, people might have been just a bit more considerate but I don't doubt people still would ahve disagreed and I'm glad for that. I'd be scared if ANYONE came up with a "Top 30 Samples List" and everyone nodded and was like, "ok." (This, of course, could never happen here since Strutters seem incapable of reaching conensus on anything).
Back to the list: Look - I'm sticking by "Drag Rap." I don't even personally like the song that much or bounce for that matter but when a single song gives birth to a whole sub-genre, that's something worth noting. I, on the other hand, LOVE Melvin Bliss' drum break (but c'mon guys, the entire song is not fucking with "It's a New Day," "Impeach the President," or "The Funky Drummer." Bliss made it a hot break, producers made the break into hot songs) but historically speaking, it didn't rank in my top 5 compared to the other breaks I did include. I don't preach that as gospel and like I said, on a top 10 breaks list, no way would it have been excluded.
As for whether I should have categorized the list differently - that's just being anal-retentive. I think the list works better integrated despite my initial desire to split it up though sure, I could have avoided some of these arguments had I had three different lists instead of one.
One more thing about "Drag Rap" (jesus, suddenly, the Showboys are my soapboax): if you think about "samples" of the last 10 years, I'd argue that song is a lot more relevant to where hip hop has gone than most of the classic "breaks" we've spoken about. I mean, I don't include Chic' "Good Times" on that list and I don't see a single person complaining about that exclusion.
^Yeah O-Dub, I hear ya. I'm not knocking drag rap specificly either. I just used it as an example. But like Phil said, I'd be lying if I didn't think Substitution should be on there.
Anyways, I think this is good preperation for the letters you're gonna get about that column. HAHA There's gonna be some PISSSSSSSSSSED off people.
Good look with next months reply column to whoever does it.
I know you need to "SELL" magazines. Everyone knows magazine lists aren't perfect.
But, when you publish in a major magazine that is supposed to be knowledgable and very impressionable to young hip hop/break fans that "Drag Rap" is a greater sample/break then Substitution you're open to people getting a case of temporary "Break" insanity.
Again, I know it's business, but it's a shame you need to make a "Greatest" list based on things other than the sample/break being "Great".
Well, my main point is magazines suck because they assume they need readers to agree rather then learn.
Lest you forget that Oliv*r's writin' for a fairly broad cross-section in 'Scratch' despite its orientation towards beatmakin'/etc. - and that novices to the game may not be fully informed as many of the people frequentin' this board; furthermore, if there are readers born/bred on bounce and fed Mannie Fresh beats, then the inclusion of the Showboys (of which I wasn't particularly enamored w/ @ the time of its release, but can appreciate its legacy) and potentially Kurtis Mantronik (nee Khaleel) would serve that contingent better than Melvin Bliss from an informative vantage point...
From what I can gather, the article concerns itself w/ breaks/samples that are influential and of historical import, not necessarily your or my faves...
Back to the list: Look - I'm sticking by "Drag Rap." I don't even personally like the song that much or bounce for that matter but when a single song gives birth to a whole sub-genre, that's something worth noting.
I kinda like the inclusion of "Drag Rap", just for the fact that I know almost nothing about the song (so I learned a little something from your list... that's got to be a good thing). I vaguely remember it from when it 1st came out, and all I can recall is that I thought it was horrible at that time. The fact that it launched a whole subgenre does make it noteworthy. But let me ask you this, O- is it more deserving of inclusion that Original Concept's "Knowledge Me" / "Can You Feel It", or Bambaataa's "Planet Rock", or the aforementioned "Amen Brother"? Not arguing a point here, I'm just curious what your opinion is on that. I really never knew that "Drag Rap" was so influential.
I, on the other hand, LOVE Melvin Bliss' drum break (but c'mon guys, the entire song is not fucking with "It's a New Day," "Impeach the President," or "The Funky Drummer." Bliss made it a hot break, producers made the break into hot songs)
Again, this is all just opinions, but I love that whole song (I think I went on record with my love for the lyrics and Bliss' singing on this song years ago on the 'Strut... or was that the crateslist?). And a lot of samples have been taken from "Substitution" other than just the drums. The bassline, piano tinkling, Mel's vocalizing. "There they go, off to the moon / I can't afford a honeymoon, no..." and "The hustlers say / we're hustlin' backwaaaards"... mayne, that shit is CRAZY. Sayin'.
Oliver, Maybe another angle to have gone at this would have been to do an all-non-UBB list; that way you acknowledge UBB's importance as the building blocks of hip hop (while kindly directing the young'uns & neophytes off to discover UBB for themselves) & don't get slammed & screamed on for omitting stuff like "Substitution." You're kind of setting yourself up for a no-win situation having to reduce an all-time list of breaks AND samples down to 30. Break up the categories slightly (Top 30 breaks, Top 30 samples etc.) & you not only get to go a little more indepth, you wind up w/ material for a two or three part series. End result: Mo' chedda from Harris Pub for Odub! Good move w/ "Drag Rap," tho. -Mao
*Mohawks: Champ (awesome song but I don't think of this as essential a sampled song is as others)
I think the main issue with the list is the term "greatest," which is completely subjective, and open to interpretation, ie what determines greatness? Influence? Popularity of the song which sampled it? Clever use of the sample/break - altered/chopped or straight loop? It seems influence was high on your criteria (and perhaps your editors' as well), and if so, I can see why "Champ" would have to be included - that snippet of organ has been one of the ubiquitous go-to's when dudes want to sound old-school for almost 2 decades! It's one of those handful of samples that honestly evokes "outdoors live in the park - 1981," although at this point it's probably impossible to make it sound fresh.
BTW when I say "issue" I have no beef with the list. Lists are meant to be disagreed with, that's why they publish them. That, and so you can feel smart when you do agree with them.
The glaring thing to me is the omission of any Isaac Hayes material(sans 'Blind Alley). No Joy, Walk On By or Walk to Reggios? The last 2 were primarily loops but Joy was a old school staple, so it should have been there.
Comments
Oh yeah! I forgot. Lol. Your totally right here, the magazine I contacted before it even came out about writing for them about breaks etc. and they told me if I was "Funk Master Flex" I could do it but no one knows who I am! Yeah good ol' Harris Publications. wouldn't that be just great to have a Funk Flex column on digging for records etc. How cool! (Total sarcasm).
Fuck Scratch, we should all nominate, review and vote for our own "greatest breaks" list.
sheeeit ya'll don't know breaks
Hey,
There are too many left off of there for me. Here goes:
-"Keep on Doin' It"-The New Birth.
-"Funky Song"-Ripple.
-"I Can Hear You Calling"-Three Dog Night.
-"Midnight Theme"-Manzel.
-"Love and Happiness"-Monty Alexander.
-"Kool It (Here Comes the Fuzz)"-Kool & the Gang.
-"Scorpio"-Dennis Coffey.
-"The Soil I Tilled For You"-S.O.B.
-"Mind Power"-James Brown.
-"Good Ole' Music"-Funkadelic.
-"Gimme What You Got"-Pamplemousse.
I'll stop here with the obvious ones.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
thats a damn good idea. We're pretty much experts here, we could make a pretty definitive list if we wanted to. I say we set up a thread where everyone just throws different breaks out there and then we set up a poll and vote. The top 50 then get placed in another poll and we reach 25 and bam there we go.
Instant mathmatical gangsta
choosing from all samples? this rowdy bunch is going to have to widdle down from prolly 7-800. what are the odds that someone gets murdered in the process?
Since it hasn't been noted yet - this was my piece in Scratch. 90% of the list was mine though I was asked to add a few songs by my editors.
Let me start by saying that I don't take issue with people disagreeing with the list. It is the nature of lists that items have to be included and excluded and obviously, people will disagree over those decisions.
I am, however, a little disappointed that people would be so quick to hate and shit on the ENTIRE THING over a single disagreement. I'm saying this to Phill - a person from whom I've learned a great deal and have a great deal of respect for. It was startling to hear you dump on the entire list because I failed to give - in your eyes - Melvin Bliss the proper credit he deserves. I'll explain my criteria in a moment but seriously, I've seen lists of breaks/samples you've composed over the years and I would never throw the proverbial baby out with the bathwater over a single difference in opinion.
I take list-making seriously, or any attempt at codify a canon and frankly, it's an imperfect and maddening process because you're trying to stay true and maintain integrity to so many different - and at times - conflicting impulses. I'm not even talking about organizing a group consensus, I just mean deciding for yourself what is "good enough" to make a ranked list and what isn't.
The most important criteria I had with this list was balance. I didn't want to overstate any particular original artist or hip hop era and I wanted to force myself out of my comfort zone of the samples I happen to like (otherwise, this whole list would have been 88-94 shit).
As such, I had this mental scale in mind:
No more than 5 drum breaks
No more than 10 "classic" samples (i.e. pre-94)
No more than 10 contemporary samples (i.e. post-94)
(My original list was 25 and was expanded to 30 at the list minute by my editors)
Obviously, there's overlap in some cases here, but for the most part, I tried to keep to that balance as best as possible.
"Synthetic Substitution" was actually on my original list but I bumped it for a few reasons. 1) I didn't want too many pure drum breaks, 2) compared to other songs, it's really just the drum break and the rest of the song isn't that memorable and 3) in terms of sheer popularity and dopeness, I would have sooner put on Skull Snaps since I think it's a similar break and frankly, a better song. (But I left "It's a New Day" off for the same reason as 1).
It's not like I went brain dead and forgot about those two songs and their significance. Nor did I forget about "Amen Brother" or "Hihache." If I was tasked with "Top 25 Drum Breaks," well, no question, they'd be on here. But to me, "samples" meant I had to take into account more than just drums. Love it or hate it.
Of the non-drum break songs, I wanted to make sure I covered a spread of different hip hop eras and sub-genres. Hence: "Drag Rap" - a song that surely wouldn't have made most conventional diggers' list of beats n' breaks but I felt like it was important to nod to how significant that record was to the Southern bounce scene. I guess if I wasa really into drum n' bass, I could have included "Amen Brother" for the same reason but DnB ain't hip-hop (one might say the same about bounce, but let's not go there).
I also tried to avoid including the same artist twice though that was impossible if you consider JBs productions as "the same artist." There's no avoiding James Brown again and again but notice - "Payback" isn't on here and that could easily have been. Or "Blind Men." Or "Give It Up and Turn It Loose." Or a zillion other formal James Brown songs (i.e. credited to him and not just a JB production). That's also why "Atomic Dog" is here and not "Flashlight" or "More Bounce" though certainly, there are many P-Funk tracks that deserved inclusion. Shit, I could have done my 30 on just JB and P-Funk alone but that would have been rather boring, no?
There were a few sonsg I didn't have on my OG list and I was asked to include from my editors. I didn't put on anything I felt really strong should NOT be on there but in my pure, personal list, I wouldn't have kept 'em. They were:
*Shelly Manne: Infinity (great use of a sample, not a great song or even loop on its own)
*Quincy Jones: Summer In the City (not a bad song but not a great song and frankly, who else besides the Pharcyde have really even fucked with this?)
*Mohawks: Champ (awesome song but I don't think of this as essential a sampled song is as others)
Ok - let the debate continue but I'm just asking people for a little civility. If any of you had written this list, I might have respectfully disagreed with you about it but I wouldn't be out there, trying to pull your UBB card.
I personally would love to see a Soul Strut list. My humble suggestion would be similar to what Edpowers did: start with my list and then scratch out what you don't want but you have to replace them with something new.
Ohhh, damn, O-Dub... I didn't know you made that list! I honestly didn't read the article in Scratch as of yet, I was just going over the list here on Soulstrut. My bad on that, but I was giving my honest opinion on the list as I saw it (as one of the most honestly opinionated dudes in the Hip Hop journalism game I'm sure you can respect that, at least). I'd be a damn liar if I didn't say that IMO the Melvin Bliss break absolutely needs to be included in any top 30 list of breaks and samples all time, as does Skull Snaps. But there are so many breaks out there it's really hard to narrow it down to 30. And it's easy to forget an important one, too.
One thing I gotta say, though- if you notice, anytime I've ever done a top ten or top twenty list of the greatest breaks I NEVER say that these are THE top breaks, only that these are SOME of my favorites. It's like picking who's your favorite child... for me I can't really do it.
If you want to discuss this further by PM we can do that, hommie. I wasn't trying to air you out publicly.
If it was this as your basic criteria..
No more than 5 drum breaks
No more than 10 "classic" samples (i.e. pre-94)
No more than 10 contemporary samples (i.e. post-94)
You should have called the piece
THE GREATEST
5 drum breaks
10 "classic" samples (i.e. pre-94)
10 contemporary samples (i.e. post-94)
I know you need to "SELL" magazines. Everyone knows magazine lists aren't perfect.
But, when you publish in a major magazine that is supposed to be knowledgable and very impressionable to young hip hop/break fans that "Drag Rap" is a greater sample/break then Substitution you're open to people getting a case of temporary "Break" insanity.
Again, I know it's business, but it's a shame you need to make a "Greatest" list based on things other than the sample/break being "Great".
Well, my main point is magazines suck because they assume they need readers to agree rather then learn.
Peace.
That doesn't have much of a ring to it.
There has to be some sort of criteria, wouldn't you agree? What would your criteria be, beyond that everything on the list is great?
So he should write something YOU agree with instead of writing something READERS agree with? IMO Drag Rap is a really relevant break that teaches readers something they may not already know, as opposed to an obvious UBB type joint that has been reissued on a multitude of bootleg LPs, 12"s and comps.
No not something I agrre with. He's knowledgable on the subject. I think that's how the piece should have been written(which it was, I know it's not all up to you). Everyone on here is extremely educated on the subject. I don't think EVERYONE reading is like "man this is obvious UBB type joints."
Like I said, I KNOW they need to sell magazines and there needs be criteria. My point is, it said "Greatest". I don't think anyone would argue with Substitution being on a "Greatest" list. People would argue with Drag Rap. That to me kind of says, hey maybe it shouldn't be on there.
To sum up my point. I just thought substitution should have been on there. And it's a shame mags need to be somewhat watered down. That's all.
I got nothing but respect for O-Dub. I'm sure that's an incredibly hard piece to write for a magazine with a large general circulation.
It's all good - I'm not really that mad, but like I said, it did sting a bit. I think had Ed noted that I was behind the list, people might have been just a bit more considerate but I don't doubt people still would ahve disagreed and I'm glad for that. I'd be scared if ANYONE came up with a "Top 30 Samples List" and everyone nodded and was like, "ok." (This, of course, could never happen here since Strutters seem incapable of reaching conensus on anything).
Back to the list: Look - I'm sticking by "Drag Rap." I don't even personally like the song that much or bounce for that matter but when a single song gives birth to a whole sub-genre, that's something worth noting. I, on the other hand, LOVE Melvin Bliss' drum break (but c'mon guys, the entire song is not fucking with "It's a New Day," "Impeach the President," or "The Funky Drummer." Bliss made it a hot break, producers made the break into hot songs) but historically speaking, it didn't rank in my top 5 compared to the other breaks I did include. I don't preach that as gospel and like I said, on a top 10 breaks list, no way would it have been excluded.
As for whether I should have categorized the list differently - that's just being anal-retentive. I think the list works better integrated despite my initial desire to split it up though sure, I could have avoided some of these arguments had I had three different lists instead of one.
Anyways, I think this is good preperation for the letters you're gonna get about that column. HAHA There's gonna be some PISSSSSSSSSSED off people.
Good look with next months reply column to whoever does it.
"More Bounce To The Ounce"
Lest you forget that Oliv*r's writin' for a fairly broad cross-section in 'Scratch' despite its orientation towards beatmakin'/etc. - and that novices to the game may not be fully informed as many of the people frequentin' this board; furthermore, if there are readers born/bred on bounce and fed Mannie Fresh beats, then the inclusion of the Showboys (of which I wasn't particularly enamored w/ @ the time of its release, but can appreciate its legacy) and potentially Kurtis Mantronik (nee Khaleel) would serve that contingent better than Melvin Bliss from an informative vantage point...
From what I can gather, the article concerns itself w/ breaks/samples that are influential and of historical import, not necessarily your or my faves...
I kinda like the inclusion of "Drag Rap", just for the fact that I know almost nothing about the song (so I learned a little something from your list... that's got to be a good thing). I vaguely remember it from when it 1st came out, and all I can recall is that I thought it was horrible at that time. The fact that it launched a whole subgenre does make it noteworthy.
But let me ask you this, O- is it more deserving of inclusion that Original Concept's "Knowledge Me" / "Can You Feel It", or Bambaataa's "Planet Rock", or the aforementioned "Amen Brother"? Not arguing a point here, I'm just curious what your opinion is on that. I really never knew that "Drag Rap" was so influential.
Again, this is all just opinions, but I love that whole song (I think I went on record with my love for the lyrics and Bliss' singing on this song years ago on the 'Strut... or was that the crateslist?). And a lot of samples have been taken from "Substitution" other than just the drums. The bassline, piano tinkling, Mel's vocalizing. "There they go, off to the moon / I can't afford a honeymoon, no..." and "The hustlers say / we're hustlin' backwaaaards"... mayne, that shit is CRAZY. Sayin'.
Maybe another angle to have gone at this would have been to do an all-non-UBB list; that way you acknowledge UBB's importance as the building blocks of hip hop (while kindly directing the young'uns & neophytes off to discover UBB for themselves) & don't get slammed & screamed on for omitting stuff like "Substitution." You're kind of setting yourself up for a no-win situation having to reduce an all-time list of breaks AND samples down to 30. Break up the categories slightly (Top 30 breaks, Top 30 samples etc.) & you not only get to go a little more indepth, you wind up w/ material for a two or three part series. End result: Mo' chedda from Harris Pub for Odub!
Good move w/ "Drag Rap," tho.
-Mao
I think the main issue with the list is the term "greatest," which is completely subjective, and open to interpretation, ie what determines greatness? Influence? Popularity of the song which sampled it? Clever use of the sample/break - altered/chopped or straight loop? It seems influence was high on your criteria (and perhaps your editors' as well), and if so, I can see why "Champ" would have to be included - that snippet of organ has been one of the ubiquitous go-to's when dudes want to sound old-school for almost 2 decades! It's one of those handful of samples that honestly evokes "outdoors live in the park - 1981," although at this point it's probably impossible to make it sound fresh.
BTW when I say "issue" I have no beef with the list. Lists are meant to be disagreed with, that's why they publish them. That, and so you can feel smart when you do agree with them.
Respect for including "Drag Rap", though.
Just curious, faux, but what exactly is it that you find so titillating about this whole thread?
Nothing.
Why do you ask?
Maybe I misinterpreted your jpeg statement.
No Joy, Walk On By or Walk to Reggios? The last 2 were primarily loops but
Joy was a old school staple, so it should have been there.