Holocaust Museum Shooting

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  • I doubt If this dude was associated with the really far right christians as they are all hardcore Zionists. Maybe more of a Libertarian leaning?


    The lunatic right in the country are bound together not by their affinities, but by their hatreds. They can't get over the fact that they're out of power and that their president is a black man.

  • jaysusjaysus 787 Posts
    I doubt If this dude was associated with the really far right christians as they are all hardcore Zionists. Maybe more of a Libertarian leaning?


    The lunatic right in the country are bound together not by their affinities, but by their hatreds. They can't get over the fact that they're out of power and that their president is a black man.

    There is no way that all of the right wing christians i have ever met would condone anything anti-israel.

  • I doubt If this dude was associated with the really far right christians as they are all hardcore Zionists. Maybe more of a Libertarian leaning?


    The lunatic right in the country are bound together not by their affinities, but by their hatreds. They can't get over the fact that they're out of power and that their president is a black man.

    There is no way that all of the right wing christians i have ever met would condone anything anti-israel.

    You seem oblivious to the point that the religious extremists that favor the existence of Israel do so not because they like Jews - which they do not - but because the Bible tells them that Israel needs to exist for the biblical prophecy of the end times to come to fruition.

  • Birdman9Birdman9 5,417 Posts
    I doubt If this dude was associated with the really far right christians as they are all hardcore Zionists. Maybe more of a Libertarian leaning?


    The lunatic right in the country are bound together not by their affinities, but by their hatreds. They can't get over the fact that they're out of power and that their president is a black man.

    There is no way that all of the right wing christians i have ever met would condone anything anti-israel.

    You seem oblivious to the point that the religious extremists that favor the existence of Israel do so not because they like Jews - which they do not - but because the Bible tells them that Israel needs to exist for the biblical prophecy of the end times to come to fruition.

    True.

  • GrafwritahGrafwritah 4,184 Posts
    Can we put religious, racial, and sexual discrimination to bed? Let's just put those down. They've been done. It's played out now. Move on to something else to hate, like the size of people's feet or those who enjoy the music of John Tesh.

    Like this?

    2nd right wing fuckbrain in a week

    No no no. Political hatred is still OK.


    j/k

  • SaracenusSaracenus 671 Posts
    I am afraid you have me pegged wrong. Never owned a gun, probably never will. Just an observation that when this stuff happens, gun-control advocates voices naturally get louder, as does the gun lobby. They feed each other and events like this fuel both sides. I understand getting guns is easy, and am thankful this nut only had his old rifle and not some automatic that could have sprayed the place without even re-loading. I don't care how you couch the criticism, the gun crazies will turn it into "Obama is trying to take my gun and stomp the constitution".

    My bad.

    On the flip side, I really don't care what the NRA or any other lobby is gonna do. You are absolutely right that such groups will spin, spin, spin to keep any debate about regulation of firearms from taking place.

    But if both sides are going to constantly twist the situation, whether you speak out or not, then speak your mind. What have you got to lose? I don't think being silent is going to help.


  • The_Hook_UpThe_Hook_Up 8,182 Posts

    we blame severe mental illness combined with a American white man's worldview formed in early 20th century.

    end of discussion.

  • UnherdUnherd 1,880 Posts
    Murderous hatred knows no racial or religious boundary.

    All it knows for sure is that Jews control everything.

  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,517 Posts

    I was wondering how long it would take before Rock came up with his left wing is just as bad right wing post.


  • I was wondering how long it would take before Rock came up with his left wing is just as bad right wing post.


    Except for how is this guy "left wing"???

  • GrafwritahGrafwritah 4,184 Posts

    I was wondering how long it would take before Rock came up with his left wing is just as bad right wing post.


    Except for how is this guy "left wing"???

    Because black guys are all "left wing," duh. Even the anti-abortion pro-Christian abstinence-is-the-only-way anti-stem-cell-research anti-gay-marriage ones.


  • I was wondering how long it would take before Rock came up with his left wing is just as bad right wing post.


    Except for how is this guy "left wing"???

    Because black guys are all "left wing," duh. Even the anti-abortion pro-Christian abstinence-is-the-only-way anti-stem-cell-research anti-gay-marriage ones.

    Ahhhh...

  • RockadelicRockadelic Out Digging 13,993 Posts

    I was wondering how long it would take before Rock came up with his left wing is just as bad right wing post.


    Except for how is this guy "left wing"???

    Exactly.

    I just find it amusing that folks blame "Right Wing Radio" for the actions of an 88 year old nutjob that was a known nutjob long before anyone ever heard of "Right Wing Radio".

  • FatbackFatback 6,746 Posts
    It is fair to blame right wing radio. All that shit about Obama destroying America. Talbout gun sales again and again. It one thing to have right wing views. I encourage reasoned public policy debate and respect a variety of views in that context. But, I'm sorry, most of what is said on Rush, Sean, Beck, Hewitt, Savage is more hateful that the what comes from the left. Both wings can be hysterical and distort the facts. I listen to everything all the time.

    Pouring gas on a fire.


  • I was wondering how long it would take before Rock came up with his left wing is just as bad right wing post.


    Except for how is this guy "left wing"???

    Exactly.

    I just find it amusing that folks blame "Right Wing Radio" for the actions of an 88 year old nutjob that was a known nutjob long before anyone ever heard of "Right Wing Radio".

    Right-wing radio has been around since the 'thirties. Father Coughlin was more popular in his day than Rush Limbaugh is now.

  • RockadelicRockadelic Out Digging 13,993 Posts
    It is fair to blame right wing radio. All that shit about Obama destroying America. Talbout gun sales again and again. It one thing to have right wing views. I encourage reasoned public policy debate and respect a variety of views in that context. But, I'm sorry, most of what is said on Rush, Sean, Beck, Hewitt, Savage is more hateful that the what comes from the left. Both wings can be hysterical and distort the facts. I listen to everything all the time.

    Pouring gas on a fire.

    fair enough....educate me on this.....which anti-Jewish Right Wing Radio host would motivate an attack on the Holocaust Museum??

    I am only familar with the better known nationally syndicated ones.

  • prof_rockwellprof_rockwell 2,867 Posts
    . Is accepting reality that hard?

    the only reality that people seem to have a hard time accepting is the reality that racism is still alive and well in the world.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not condoning this F*ck's actions, nor am I bashing the outrage over it, but this is the 2nd thread I've read about this shooting where most people are like "I can't believe there are people who still think this way."

  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,517 Posts
    So we have all seen these articles about how gun sales are through the roof, and ammunition is back ordered for days.

    In 2 different stories now, one on NPR and one in our local newspaper, people have talked about the fear that Obama will put a tax on ammunition making it prohibitively expensive.

    Which is funny, because that tax is a Chris Rock routine.

    End of thread hijack.
    What was this guy thinking?
    He went in with one single shot rifle?
    Do I have that right?
    His goal was not to kill as many people as possible, if that is right.

    Perhaps he was hoping this would start a race war.

  • FatbackFatback 6,746 Posts
    It is fair to blame right wing radio. All that shit about Obama destroying America. Talbout gun sales again and again. It one thing to have right wing views. I encourage reasoned public policy debate and respect a variety of views in that context. But, I'm sorry, most of what is said on Rush, Sean, Beck, Hewitt, Savage is more hateful that the what comes from the left. Both wings can be hysterical and distort the facts. I listen to everything all the time.

    Pouring gas on a fire.

    fair enough....educate me on this.....which anti-Jewish Right Wing Radio host would motivate an attack on the Holocaust Museum??

    I am only familar with the better known nationally syndicated ones.

    I think there is a cumulative impact to all of the codes used by these right wing shock jocks. There are very few examples of explicit anti-semitism or racism. That's not how it goes anymore. I realize I am going out on a limb and will accept the criticism for saying this. I am also not suggesting that anyone be censored. I am adamant about free speech even from hateful dumb people. I have noticed that when right wing talk does not have people in power to defend they become a lot more inflammatory and hysterical. I saw it when Clinton was in office and am seeing it flair up again--but it seems even stronger now. It's unfortunate that people like David Brooks or Michael Smerkonish do not reach the audiences that Rush Sean etc. reach. They are examples of perspectives from the right that are reasoned and evidence based --even though I strongly disagree with many of their views.

  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,517 Posts


    fair enough....educate me on this.....which anti-Jewish Right Wing Radio host would motivate an attack on the Holocaust Museum??

    http://www.adl.org/learn/news/Suprem_Urge_Bomb.asp

    http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1148

    Anti-immigrant/Latina is the most common hate language on talk radio.
    If you have not heard attacks on immigrants and Latinas you probably are not listening to talk radio.

    When foxnews says something slightly inflammatory, it fuels hate groups.
    When Michael Savage says something more inflammatory, if feeds the fire.
    When a caller to Michael Savage says something outrageous it fans the flames.

    And so it goes to the point that these people thing they are not only right, but in the mainstream.

  • soulbrono1soulbrono1 205 Posts
    I doubt If this dude was associated with the really far right christians as they are all hardcore Zionists. Maybe more of a Libertarian leaning?


    The lunatic right in the country are bound together not by their affinities, but by their hatreds. They can't get over the fact that they're out of power and that their president is a black man.

    There is no way that all of the right wing christians i have ever met would condone anything anti-israel.

    You seem oblivious to the point that the religious extremists that favor the existence of Israel do so not because they like Jews - which they do not - but because the Bible tells them that Israel needs to exist for the biblical prophecy of the end times to come to fruition.

    True.

    Not really...at least not for the majority I have come into contact with. many truly respect and love the Jews, or at least a romanticized version of who they are or supposed to be.

    Not all right leaning folks are hateful and violent, opposed to the impression one would get from reading this forum. Many on the fringe are...especially ones with mental issues (88 year old in question), but that applies somewhat to the left too. Actually, does anti-semitism automatically qualify you as far right?

  • RockadelicRockadelic Out Digging 13,993 Posts
    It is fair to blame right wing radio. All that shit about Obama destroying America. Talbout gun sales again and again. It one thing to have right wing views. I encourage reasoned public policy debate and respect a variety of views in that context. But, I'm sorry, most of what is said on Rush, Sean, Beck, Hewitt, Savage is more hateful that the what comes from the left. Both wings can be hysterical and distort the facts. I listen to everything all the time.

    Pouring gas on a fire.

    fair enough....educate me on this.....which anti-Jewish Right Wing Radio host would motivate an attack on the Holocaust Museum??

    I am only familar with the better known nationally syndicated ones.

    I think there is a cumulative impact to all of the codes used by these right wing shock jocks. There are very few examples of explicit anti-semitism or racism. That's not how it goes anymore. I realize I am going out on a limb and will accept the criticism for saying this. I am also not suggesting that anyone be censored. I am adamant about free speech even from hateful dumb people. I have noticed that when right wing talk does not have people in power to defend they become a lot more inflammatory and hysterical. I saw it when Clinton was in office and am seeing it flair up again--but it seems even stronger now. It's unfortunate that people like David Brooks or Michael Smerkonish do not reach the audiences that Rush Sean etc. reach. They are examples of perspectives from the right that are reasoned and evidence based --even though I strongly disagree with many of their views.

    Understood and for the most part agreed.

    It's hard to say on one hand that someting like "talk radio" or music lyrics or video games are directly to blame for something as heinous as murder and on the other hand say it shouldn't be censored.

    If indeed any of these things WERE responsible for murdering people they SHOULD be censored, but you and I both know that's not the case....even if some murdering 16 year old kid blames Grand Theft Auto for his actions or a murdering 88 year old man cites Rush Limbaugh as his mentor.

    I think blaming these things both lays blame in the wrong place and lessens the accountability of the individual's actions.

    I've heard Smerkonish on occasion and think that the reason he's NOT more popular is because he isn't a sensationalist who pisses of the Left.

  • RockadelicRockadelic Out Digging 13,993 Posts


    fair enough....educate me on this.....which anti-Jewish Right Wing Radio host would motivate an attack on the Holocaust Museum??

    http://www.adl.org/learn/news/Suprem_Urge_Bomb.asp

    http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1148

    Anti-immigrant/Latina is the most common hate language on talk radio.
    If you have not heard attacks on immigrants and Latinas you probably are not listening to talk radio.

    When foxnews says something slightly inflammatory, it fuels hate groups.
    When Michael Savage says something more inflammatory, if feeds the fire.
    When a caller to Michael Savage says something outrageous it fans the flames.

    And so it goes to the point that these people thing they are not only right, but in the mainstream.

    So in the case that we are discussing.....which anti-Jewish Right Wing Radio host would motivate an attack on the Holocaust Museum?

  • GrafwritahGrafwritah 4,184 Posts
    immigrants and Latinas

    Damn those hispanic women. Damn them! Damn them and their sexiness!




    That's IT! I will never mail order my bride from Central or South America!

  • Birdman9Birdman9 5,417 Posts
    . Is accepting reality that hard?

    the only reality that people seem to have a hard time accepting is the reality that racism is still alive and well in the world.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not condoning this F*ck's actions, nor am I bashing the outrage over it, but this is the 2nd thread I've read about this shooting where most people are like "I can't believe there are people who still think this way."

    I really didn't mean it that way....trust me, I am well aquainted with the standard racial ignorance type of people (clutching their purse tight, asking if a certain part of town is "safe", people who hire only other white people, etc). I "get" the racism that allows people to mistakenly feel superior to others, I guess what I find difficult to grasp is how certain people even SURVIVE their own cancerous anger. I mean, from everything I have read about the guy, it's a wonder he could function in this part of the country hating Blacks and Jews with such venom, I would think he would develop a Tourette's-like response to even leaving his house. Wasn't like dude lived in a White's-Only country club! That is what I mean by accepting the reality that America is no longer that White's Only country club these cats imagined that it once was and should be again.

    By the way, can anyone shed some light for me on the whole "White Man's Burden" syndrome? I got into a long discussion with a guy I work with about how he feels that White Men are being marginalized in American society. I guess I don't really see it the same way (full disclosure-I am an American White Male), so the whole basis of his argument, or whatever, just seems to be fantasy to me, even though this guy is not a (complete)nutbar right-winger. The "accepting reality" of a multi-cultural society is not something he sees or sees the need for, and I don't understand it. Can anyone help me here?

  • Birdman9Birdman9 5,417 Posts
    I doubt If this dude was associated with the really far right christians as they are all hardcore Zionists. Maybe more of a Libertarian leaning?


    The lunatic right in the country are bound together not by their affinities, but by their hatreds. They can't get over the fact that they're out of power and that their president is a black man.

    There is no way that all of the right wing christians i have ever met would condone anything anti-israel.

    You seem oblivious to the point that the religious extremists that favor the existence of Israel do so not because they like Jews - which they do not - but because the Bible tells them that Israel needs to exist for the biblical prophecy of the end times to come to fruition.

    True.

    Not really...at least not for the majority I have come into contact with. many truly respect and love the Jews, or at least a romanticized version of who they are or supposed to be.

    Not all right leaning folks are hateful and violent, opposed to the impression one would get from reading this forum. Many on the fringe are...especially ones with mental issues (88 year old in question), but that applies somewhat to the left too. Actually, does anti-semitism automatically qualify you as far right?


    You stated the truth yourself, they don't like actual Jewish people, but rather "a romanticized version of who they are or supposed to be", which is ultimately the catalyst for the return of Jesus. Ask an evangelical if Jews go to heaven, they will tell you "no". Ask them if they are ok with their son marrying a Jewish woman and see what they say.

  • So in the case that we are discussing.....which anti-Jewish Right Wing Radio host would motivate an attack on the Holocaust Museum?

    that is besides the point. nobody is saying there is a direct correlation between anything said or heard on talk radio and fox and this deranged lunatic's subsequent actions.

    the real issue is whether talk radio and fox news are whipping up a froth of righteous indignation that may be enabling those who are already on the margins to lash out. i'm not sure if that is something that can proven scientifically, but you have to know there are consequences to the kind of inflammatory and hysterical rhetoric spewing forth from a very vocal section of the right.

    when you are ringing the alarm bells on a daily basis saying that socialism and fascism (which are apparently one in the same now)are upon us and that the american way of life is under assault by "cancerous administration" don;t be surprised when certain people start taking matters into their own hands.


  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,517 Posts


    fair enough....educate me on this.....which anti-Jewish Right Wing Radio host would motivate an attack on the Holocaust Museum??

    http://www.adl.org/learn/news/Suprem_Urge_Bomb.asp

    http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1148

    Anti-immigrant/Latina is the most common hate language on talk radio.
    If you have not heard attacks on immigrants and Latinas you probably are not listening to talk radio.

    When foxnews says something slightly inflammatory, it fuels hate groups.
    When Michael Savage says something more inflammatory, if feeds the fire.
    When a caller to Michael Savage says something outrageous it fans the flames.

    And so it goes to the point that these people thing they are not only right, but in the mainstream.

    So in the case that we are discussing.....which anti-Jewish Right Wing Radio host would motivate an attack on the Holocaust Museum?

    No one ever said that a specific one host motivated this attack.

    When you asked to be educated you were responding to this quote from Fatback:
    "It is fair to blame right wing radio. All that shit about Obama destroying America. Talbout gun sales again and again. It one thing to have right wing views. I encourage reasoned public policy debate and respect a variety of views in that context. But, I'm sorry, most of what is said on Rush, Sean, Beck, Hewitt, Savage is more hateful that the what comes from the left. Both wings can be hysterical and distort the facts. I listen to everything all the time.

    Pouring gas on a fire."

    In this case, the shooter would more likely be hosting a hate radio show than listening to one.

    I agree with you that hate speech is protected and should not be censored.

  • RockadelicRockadelic Out Digging 13,993 Posts
    So in the case that we are discussing.....which anti-Jewish Right Wing Radio host would motivate an attack on the Holocaust Museum?

    that is besides the point. nobody is saying there is a direct correlation between anything said or heard on talk radio and fox and this deranged lunatic's subsequent actions.

    the real issue is whether talk radio and fox news are whipping up a froth of righteous indignation that may be enabling those who are already on the margins to lash out. i'm not sure if that is something that can proven scientifically, but you have to know there are consequences to the kind of inflammatory and hysterical rhetoric spewing forth from a very vocal section of the right.

    when you are ringing the alarm bells on a daily basis saying that socialism and fascism (which are apparently one in the same now)are upon us and that the american way of life is under assault by "cancerous administration" don;t be surprised when certain people start taking matters into their own hands.


    So if some lunatic goes out and kills the President we can blame Beck and others like him....fine....at least I can see some connection there.....I wouldn't agree, but I can at least see the point.

    My point is there is NO connection that I am aware of between the dreaded "Right Wing Radio" and murdering 88 year old Anti-Jewish Holocaust deniers.

    Are we just going to blame every worked up lunatic murderer on Right Wing Radio...even the Muslim dude who killed the soldier, because quite frankly, that has about as much to do with Right Wing Talk Radio as this 88 year old idiot.

    I say call these Rush Limbaugh morons out for EXACTLY what they do.

    But blaming totally unrelated things on them makes the accurate accusations impotent.

    Right wing talk radio is working these assholes up. Expect more of this kind of shit.
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