im forgetting 50 cent obviously -- in da club was '03's biggest single even tho the album came out in '02 ... im gonna say whatever the first big southern single was post-in da club (probably 'get low')
You can't say it's after 50 Cent/Get Rich Or Die Tryin'... his whole thing was "I'm a New Yorker but I sound Southern"
We're talking about not just NYC making or not making hits but of losing the focus of the "NY Sound". I'd agree that it has to be the string of Lil Jon club hits that did it. From "Bia Bia" to "Yeah" and on and on.
Outkast has only been mentioned once or twice, but they laid the groundwork. "The south got something to say...", me and my friends banged those records hard in NY, ATLiens through Stankonia. They got love and radio play too. And ditto what p_gunn said on the cash money records, those records were BIG in the clubs and every DJ had to buy them. I find it hard to say "well Rough Riders was hitting too, I mean Drag-On had a big record that was basically a wannabe-proto-crunk record at that time. The prototypical "NY sound" was already suffering at that point. You couldn't even make a beat with a sample in it back then! All the pressure was to make "keyboard beats" or people didn't want to F*ck with you.
i dunno tho i dont think you can say swizz' keyboard sound was particularly 'southern', those records still scream new york to me, dmx is very new york. i think there's just a generational shift going on there too cuz there were southern rap records that switched from samples to keyboards around the same time. plus you got that early 00s roc-a-fella sound, just blaze & kanye west etc ... thats some pretty ny-sounding shit that also sold records, at least initially, dynasty -> blueprint, state prop, beanie sigel's debut etc.
50 cent def was not really a 'new york rapper' starting with his debut ill agree with that ... once he lost the ghetto quran stuff it was pretty much a dr. dre x southern slurred national sound
I don't think the shift from samples was the same in the south as the north - I mean, maybe it was just "the hot sound" but southern beats seemed to evolve from stuff that already existed eg club/bounce records whereas NY records as you say many of them were very "New York" sounding even though they weren't sample-based.
Since then samples have re-emerged as a critical production tool but I'd say the south even influenced that... people are grabbing way more slow, soulful bluesy stuff than jazz horns or rhodes samples or library/drama stuff.
I remember being in NYC in 1998 at one of the big clubs (The Tunnel maybe?), and the DJ dropped "Ha!". It cleared the dancefloor, but me and a couple of other homies from the south were going buck. The DJ had to throw on dancehall to get other people back on the floor.
That song would've definitely cleared the floor at Tunnel. haha.
Deej is right, "Ha!" came out right around the time that a lot of NYC acts were real big, so it was still pretty combative. Mannie kept making those bangers though and the salty NYC contingent had to submit!
im forgetting 50 cent obviously -- in da club was '03's biggest single even tho the album came out in '02 ... im gonna say whatever the first big southern single was post-in da club (probably 'get low')
In general, I think The Neptunes and Timbaland blew open the door for new rap sounds coming from anywhere, and the south was just the best positioned to rush through the door once it was opened.
This couldn't be any less accurate.
How so?
Maybe I'm southern biased but the south was making headway before the rise of either The Neptunes or Timbaland. Maybe I'm reading the intent of your post wrong, but to me, "blew open the door for new rap coming from anywhere" suggests that people weren't even checking for southern rap at all. Which, in my experience, couldn't be further from the truth.
That same positioning that you mentioned didn't just come outta nowhere. Early adopters that had been checking for southern rap were finally justified when songs like "Ha" came out. The seeds were planted long before The Neptunes or Timbaland had to say anything about it.
Yeah, that's not what I was saying at all. It should go without saying that being the "best positioned" doesn't come out of nowhere. Obviously underground scenes had thrived in certain regions, and No Limit, for example, made inroads on a national level, but personally I think the early successes of the Neptunes and Timbaland with Nore, Jay, Ol Dirty, etc. made it okay to think bigger than a particular regional sound, and once NY heads were hooked on that more "universal" approach to rap, the door was open for fans to reevaluate all the regional hip hop, bounce, crunk, booty music that informed that universal melting pot.
Basically, I agree with all the other turning points in this thread, but I just want to add this one of my own.
I dont understand your comment " More Universal approach."
Admittedly it's hard to put this quality to words, and maybe "universal" is not the best term for what I'm talking about, but it has something to do with the combination of more three-dimensional use of sonic space, exotic instrumentation, wildly varied rhythms and tempos, juxtaposition of synthetic and organic sonic elements, etc. Even the way The Neptunes, in particular, dressed signaled some sort of "post-rap" paradigm shift. Not that any of this was truly beyond rap, just that the approach loosened up a lot of peoples' boundaries.
(cause lets be real - East Coast means NYC, cause y'all aint really talmbout -Newark,Baltimore,D.C.,Boston,Philly,Syracuse,Richmmond,etc.)
Not just NYC. My take on this comes from what I heard going on in New York, Boston, Hartford, Philly and Baltimore during the time in question.
Seems like dudes have this idea that NYC were not listening,paying attention to,purchasing,dancing,copying what has been happening outside of the region.
OK, then fine...we're back to Mind Playin' Tricks On Me.
Admittedly it's hard to put this quality to words, and maybe "universal" is not the best term for what I'm talking about, but it has something to do with the combination of more three-dimensional use of sonic space, exotic instrumentation, wildly varied rhythms and tempos, juxtaposition of synthetic and organic sonic elements, etc. Even the way The Neptunes, in particular, dressed signaled some sort of "post-rap" paradigm shift. Not that any of this was truly beyond rap, just that the approach loosened up a lot of peoples' boundaries.
Admittedly it's hard to put this quality to words, and maybe "universal" is not the best term for what I'm talking about, but it has something to do with the combination of more three-dimensional use of sonic space, exotic instrumentation, wildly varied rhythms and tempos, juxtaposition of synthetic and organic sonic elements, etc. Even the way The Neptunes, in particular, dressed signaled some sort of "post-rap" paradigm shift. Not that any of this was truly beyond rap, just that the approach loosened up a lot of peoples' boundaries.
uhhh.....
THaNkS...FORgOT AbOUT THaT ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
But, like I said earlier you can't forget Luke, and Booty Bass from Miami. That shit was bumpin' before Outkast was around. All the shit coming out of Miami in the late 80s and early 90s contributed to the codification of a 'Southern Sound'.
But, like I said earlier you can't forget Luke, and Booty Bass from Miami. That shit was bumpin' before Outkast was around. All the shit coming out of Miami in the late 80s and early 90s contributed to the codification of a 'Southern Sound'.
Miami/Bass NEVER threatened NYC.
But yeah Ill agree that it was the precusor to the Souf in ya mouf.
I was down South, and not at all up on the scene at the time, so all I can speak to is what I know. And, I do know that Miami Bass was big long before Outkast came along.
Well, I got to NY in 2000 and at that time the city would grudgingly accept singles by Southern artists about three months after they had broken down South. I remember hearing Ludacris and Mystikal singles a lot at that time. I gather this had been going on for awhile and it continued for several more years. I think 2005 was the year that New Yorkers dropped the charade. That was the first time that I remember stepping outside in Harlem and hearing people play entire albums by Paul Wall, Mike Jones and Jeezy.
Well, I got to NY in 2000 and at that time the city would grudgingly accept singles by Southern artists about three months after they had broken down South. I remember hearing Ludacris and Mystikal singles a lot at that time. I gather this had been going on for awhile and it continued for several more years. I think 2005 was the year that New Yorkers dropped the charade. That was the first time that I remember stepping outside in Harlem and hearing people play entire albums by Paul Wall, Mike Jones and Jeezy.
I remember coppin 12s at Beat Street in Brooklyn.
There was an area where the hot singles were always placed.
At one time it was 85% Souf steez. On the opposite side was the NYC/Game/etc stuff. Warmed over Boom Bap stuff.
The crowd I played to then, didnt expect too much Souf stuff, but I played what was currently in style at the time, on top of what I've been listening to myself.
This is around '02/'03.
BUT at the same time this was happenin - Dip Set was one a serious come up.
Stankonia was on heavy rotation when i had my gig. I could rock the non-singles and cats wouldnt get pissy.
Comments
+
^^so sad^^
Over-reliance on a single barometre?
Jay-Z guest versin
Mugatu lettin yall know what's so hot right now
imho[/b]
*runs away*
We're talking about not just NYC making or not making hits but of losing the focus of the "NY Sound". I'd agree that it has to be the string of Lil Jon club hits that did it. From "Bia Bia" to "Yeah" and on and on.
Outkast has only been mentioned once or twice, but they laid the groundwork. "The south got something to say...", me and my friends banged those records hard in NY, ATLiens through Stankonia. They got love and radio play too. And ditto what p_gunn said on the cash money records, those records were BIG in the clubs and every DJ had to buy them. I find it hard to say "well Rough Riders was hitting too, I mean Drag-On had a big record that was basically a wannabe-proto-crunk record at that time. The prototypical "NY sound" was already suffering at that point. You couldn't even make a beat with a sample in it back then! All the pressure was to make "keyboard beats" or people didn't want to F*ck with you.
50 cent def was not really a 'new york rapper' starting with his debut ill agree with that ... once he lost the ghetto quran stuff it was pretty much a dr. dre x southern slurred national sound
Since then samples have re-emerged as a critical production tool but I'd say the south even influenced that... people are grabbing way more slow, soulful bluesy stuff than jazz horns or rhodes samples or library/drama stuff.
But then again Kanye is a big part of that.
Deej is right, "Ha!" came out right around the time that a lot of NYC acts were real big, so it was still pretty combative. Mannie kept making those bangers though and the salty NYC contingent had to submit!
The album came out in 03
Carry on.
uhhh.....
THaNkS...FORgOT AbOUT THaT ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
But, like I said earlier you can't forget Luke, and Booty Bass from Miami. That shit was bumpin' before Outkast was around. All the shit coming out of Miami in the late 80s and early 90s contributed to the codification of a 'Southern Sound'.
Miami/Bass NEVER threatened NYC.
But yeah Ill agree that it was the precusor to the Souf in ya mouf.
Y'all weren't getting down to 2live crew up here?
what do u think?
We used to ride hard to some Magic Mike shit rolling out to go skate in my Toyota Camry. Being like "Damn there's a lot of bass in here!"
Well, I got to NY in 2000 and at that time the city would grudgingly accept singles by Southern artists about three months after they had broken down South. I remember hearing Ludacris and Mystikal singles a lot at that time. I gather this had been going on for awhile and it continued for several more years. I think 2005 was the year that New Yorkers dropped the charade. That was the first time that I remember stepping outside in Harlem and hearing people play entire albums by Paul Wall, Mike Jones and Jeezy.
I remember coppin 12s at Beat Street in Brooklyn.
There was an area where the hot singles were always placed.
At one time it was 85% Souf steez. On the opposite side was the NYC/Game/etc stuff. Warmed over Boom Bap stuff.
The crowd I played to then, didnt expect too much Souf stuff, but I played what was currently in style at the time, on top of what I've been listening to myself.
This is around '02/'03.
BUT at the same time this was happenin - Dip Set was one a serious come up.
Stankonia was on heavy rotation when i had my gig. I could rock the non-singles and cats wouldnt get pissy.