HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
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b,121And I know this not from any electronic source. I know this from knowing and talking to a wide range of people.
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b,121Hilarious. So you talking to a wide range of people trumps a poll of at least a thousand people?
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font class="post"1b,121b,121Yeah, talking to a wide range of people over the course of my life allows me to be able to predict what they will do way better than any poll ever could.
b,121Also, I wouldn't trust every person who says now in public that they're going to vote for OBama to actually do so inside the ballot booth.
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font class="post"1b,121b,121This is truth, and unlike what some people woild like1you to believe, it's not racism that drives these folks.b,121b,121It has become "politically correct" for folks to say they support Obama. In some instances, to avoid "mocking" the likes that we see here at SS when even ONE person claims support for McCain.b,121b,121I think the left tend to create a comfortable "bubble" to exist in, where everyone agrees with their views and those who don't are mocked and called stupid.b,121b,121Therefore they really don't get to see, nor try to understand, who folks outside their mindset really are and why they think what they do.b,121b,121Many1of you won't agree, but if come November 5th McCain is indeed President you can save all the racist and "those people are stupid" cliches and look in the mirror at folks who truly promote the "if you're not with us you're against us" attitude and alienate1potential allies and fellow supporters while doing so.b,121b,121A Texas Obama supporter.
b,121the opinions of people in Austin TX, Ann Arbor MI & Chapel Hill NC are irrelevant to the outcome of this election
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b,121Not AT ALL who I'm talking about. Those spots I would expect to vote for Obama overwhelmingly. But I guess accroding to people like1you, Obama doesn't need their votes either. New York and California...that's all Obama needs, right?
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font class="post"1b,121b,121 img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/game02vy9.gif" alt="" /1b,121b,121you're acting shocked that Obama has turned out to be a mainstream politicianb,121b,121btw Clay Aiken is gay too
b,121Not sure if he's gonna pick up some undecided voters in the process, but Obama as of late is losing people who formerly wanted to vote for him.
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b,121Of course his blind support of the bail-out for one. His now-ridiculously hawkish stances as another.
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font class="post"1b,121b,121Yes this makes sense; the young, relatively inexperienced liberal with a thin foreign policy resume, going against a war hero, should talk less about killing terrorists. In fact he should follow Harvey's lead, and come out against all wars. Someone get Axelrod on the phone, we've apparently stumbled on the Democrat's Achilles's heal: they seem too tough!
I am with Rich, I think it was a tie. Though I think on purely technical points I'd give McCain the win for avoiding getting pinned with the mortgage crisis. b,121b,121My brother and others are right, who cares what we think? The debate is about swing voters. Does anyone have links for polling on what swing/independent voters thought?
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
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b,121Not sure if he's gonna pick up some undecided voters in the process, but Obama as of late is losing people who formerly wanted to vote for him.
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b,121Of course his blind support of the bail-out for one. His now-ridiculously hawkish stances as another.
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b,121Yes this makes sense; the young, relatively inexperienced liberal with a thin foreign policy resume, going against a war hero, should talk
less about killing terrorists. In fact he should follow Harvey's lead, and come out against all wars. Someone get Axelrod on the phone, we've apparently stumbled on the Democrat's Achilles's heal: they seem too tough! b,121b,121h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121More like they seem spineless.
b,121b,121Obama displayed poise, swagger, and intelligence.b,121b,121McCain displayed experience, williness, and calmness.b,121b,121Tie.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
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b,121the opinions of people in Austin TX, Ann Arbor MI & Chapel Hill NC are irrelevant to the outcome of this election
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font class="post"1b,121b,121Also on this, you are very wrong about Austin.b,121b,121For decades due to the make-up of its population, Austin has been used as the perfect and go-to test market for figuring out what appeals to the 18-34 demographic...which is where future market trends emerge. That's why you see so many1succesful buisnesses sprouting out of Austin (Dell, Whole Foods, etc.), because if you can make it here...you are golden just about anywhere else.b,121b,121So yeah, how Austin votes...and again, I would think Obama's gonna kill here...is very important to the outcome of this election.
b,121And my personal opinion on the debate was that yes, it was a tie - and the tie, here, goes1to Obama I think.
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b,121thats what George Will said
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b,121lol
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font class="post"1b,121b,121George Will actually talked me into this view. I was in the "tie goes1to McCain" camp, but what Will said made a lot of sense.
b,121Many1of you won't agree, but if come November 5th McCain is indeed President you can save all the racist and "those people are stupid" cliches and look in the mirror at folks who truly promote the "if you're not with us you're against us" attitude and alienate1potential allies and fellow supporters while doing so.
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font class="post"1b,121b,121You know, I disagree. If someone votes for the McCain/Palin ticket solely because they felt brushed off by some over-excited Obama supporter or snubbed or talked down to, that is quite the epitome of stupid and we will deserve whatever we get come January. I'm am voting for the person I feel is overwhelmingly better equipped to lead this country and who will make me feel great about its prospects in the world - many1of my countrymen will vote for the person who is better equipped to lead their towns or unions and will make them feel great about themselves. On this I disagree strongly with them - we're in our current state as a country precisely BECAUSE we have far too few honest looks in the mirror. b,121b,121As far as this micro-soulstrut-debate-thread which is not really representative of the greater discussion going on in this country, Robert's been hammering away at Obama for months now and it's rather transparent. It's hard to take seriously as someone really looking to be swayed, as he seemed to have made up his mind long ago. Also, it's just statement of fact that Texas will not decide this election. Nothing against Texas or its residents. It may be that the state is a microcosm of the electorate and is representative of where the country will land as a whole, but I'm not certain even Texans would say that.b,121b,121I do agree that "The Bradley Effect" is less going to be about race than about PC-ness and not wanting to seem the odd one out in a room full of Obama supporters... yet I don't see how this happens in a polling situation where it's just you and a polling staffer/machine on the other end of the line.
b,121the opinions of people in Austin TX, Ann Arbor MI & Chapel Hill NC are irrelevant to the outcome of this election
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b,121Also on this, you are very wrong about Austin.
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b,121For decades due to the make-up of its population, Austin has been used as the perfect and go-to test market for figuring out what appeals to the 18-34 demographic...which is where future market trends emerge. That's why you see so many1succesful buisnesses sprouting out of Austin (Dell, Whole Foods, etc.), because if you can make it here...you are golden just about anywhere else.
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b,121So yeah, how Austin votes...and again, I would think Obama's gonna kill here...is very important to the outcome of this election.
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font class="post"1b,121b,121Whole Foods? GTFOHWTBS, you're proving my pointb,121b,121WFoods shoppers are not going to decide this electionb,121b,121Austin has about as much claim as being 'in the bible belt' as Ann Arbor has of being 'in the rust belt' lol
b,121Also, I wouldn't trust every person who says now in public that they're going to vote for OBama to actually do so inside the ballot booth.
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b,121It has become "politically correct" for folks to say they support Obama.
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font class="post"1b,121b,121i agree with this point. this is the first thing i thought of when the campaigns started recalling that Simpsons episode, where springfield had a bill to kick the immigrants out of Sprinfield. Everyone in public was against the bill with large groups chanting and then the next scene is everyone running into the booths. Then the1results are in...and everyone voted for theopposite of what said they'd do in public.
b,121I do agree that "The Bradley Effect" is less going to be about race than about PC-ness and not wanting to seem the odd one out in a room full of Obama supporters... yet I don't see how this happens in a polling situation where it's just you and a polling staffer/machine on the other end of the line.
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font class="post"1b,121b,121I wonder about this - white voters have plenty1of other issues they can substitute for race in their own INTERNAL thoughts about why they don't support Obama - i.e 'he doesn't have enough experience' thru 'he's a muslim'
b,121Also, I wouldn't trust every person who says now in public that they're going to vote for OBama to actually do so inside the ballot booth.
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b,121It has become "politically correct" for folks to say they support Obama.
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b,121i agree with this point. this is the first thing i thought of when the campaigns started recalling that Simpsons episode, where springfield had a bill to kick the immigrants out of Sprinfield. Everyone in public was against the bill with large groups chanting and then the next scene is everyone running into the booths. Then the results are in...and everyone voted for theopposite of what said they'd do in public.
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font class="post"1b,121b,121thats a cartoonb,121b,121aren't you a Canadian anyway?
b,121its a reference. and i thought it was a concept that could be appliciable to the situation.b,121b,121b,121yeah i'm canadian, was it my accent that gave it away?
b,121yeah i'm canadian, was it my accent that gave it away?
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font class="post"1b,121b,121ya,b,121b,121yowse guys are having an election too eh?b,121b,121I watched some coverage on CBC & it was hilarious - it just seemed so mild mannered in comparisonb,121b,121 img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /1
b,121And my personal opinion on the debate was that yes, it was a tie - and the tie, here, goes1to Obama I think.
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b,121thats what George Will said
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b,121lol
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b,121George Will actually talked me into this view. I was in the "tie goes1to McCain" camp, but what Will said made a lot of sense.
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b,121Is there a link to this? I couldn't find a column by him on this. I am assuming this was Will the talking head last night.
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font class="post"1b,121b,121The point was made (not sure if it was by Will) that if the debate was considered a tie, it is still a net gain for Obama. Foreign policy is McCain's strong point and he was expected to run circles around Obama....which he did not. Couple that with the way McCain's campaign has been running the last week and I don't think there will be a significant bump in the numbers from the debate.b,121b,121The thing that can1potentially save him is the bailout proposal. If the changes he "helped" make become part of the final agreement he will ride the "people's champ" card til the wheels fall off.
Some more random info....b,121b,121from Sullivan's blogb,121/font1
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b,121The biggest audiences tended to come from the MidWest. Among critical political markets where ratings were very strong: St Louis, MO; Greensboro and Raleigh-Durham, NC; Columbus, OH; Norfolk and Richmond, VA; Denver, CO; Miami, Fort Lauderdale, and Palm Beach, FL; Detroit, MI; Indianapolis, IN.
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b,121It will be interesting to see how the polling looks in those states in a couple of days. Whoever won that debate will have been doing it in front of some critical swing voters. (New Yorkers and Los Angelenos were among the least interested in the debate. But then it was Friday night in the big city, so I don't blame them.)
b,121Why aren't more people talking about how wreckless McCain can1be?
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font class="post"1b,121yes, he has shown this a lot lately -- the VP pick, campaign suspension, etc. sometimes it works, but acting on impulse is risky. even George Will says he is "behaving like a flustered rookie"
b,121yeah i'm canadian, was it my accent that gave it away?
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b,121ya,
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b,121yowse guys are having an election too eh?
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b,121I watched some coverage on CBC & it was hilarious - it just seemed so
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font class="post"1b,121b,121ya, and the interesting thing is it may shape up to be a Conservative majority, and people are worried about Harper's right wing agenda, its like canada going backwards. interesting times.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
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b,121As far as this micro-soulstrut-debate-thread which is not really representative of the greater discussion going on in this country, Robert's been hammering away at Obama for months now and it's rather transparent. It's hard to take seriously as someone really looking to be swayed, as he seemed to have made up his mind long ago.
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font class="post"1b,121b,121It doesn't look like you take anything outside of everyone-must-support-Obama seriously. My mind has been made up for months that Obama isn't what too many1believe him to be. But I keep going back and forth on whether or not to vote for him.b,121b,121And here I am as someone on the fence giving you a heads-up on what real people are talking about outside of your bubble and you'd rather listen to stupid polls. b,121b,121I know I'm not a trusted source around here, but if y'all would just open your minds and ears a little bit more than they are now...you'll definitely hear what I'm talking about.b,121b,121And for an Obama win, it needs to be addressed pronto.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
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b,121Some more random info....
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b,121The biggest audiences tended to come from the MidWest. Among critical political markets where ratings were very strong: St Louis, MO; Greensboro and Raleigh-Durham, NC; Columbus, OH; Norfolk and Richmond, VA; Denver, CO; Miami, Fort Lauderdale, and Palm Beach, FL; Detroit, MI; Indianapolis, IN.
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b,121It will be interesting to see how the polling looks in those states in a couple of days. Whoever won that debate will have been doing it in front of some critical swing voters. (New Yorkers and Los Angelenos were among the least interested in the debate. But then it was Friday night in the big city, so I don't blame them.)
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b,121Also, in no way were the majority1of polls in October '04 showing Kerry with a lead:
font class="post"1b,121b,121Kerry faded sooner...and his pompous, overconfident attitude had A LOT top do with it. b,121b,121Another big thing that lost the election for him was his party fronting like he was an anti-war candidate only to have him say openly he planned to escalate the war in Iraq. b,121b,121Sounds familiar.
b,121It doesn't look like you take anything outside of everyone-must-support-Obama seriously. My mind has been made up for months that Obama isn't what too many1believe him to be. But I keep going back and forth on whether or not to vote for him.
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b,121And here I am as someone on the fence giving you a heads-up on what real people are talking about outside of your bubble and you'd rather listen to stupid polls.
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b,121I know I'm not a trusted source around here, but if y'all would just open your minds and ears a little bit more than they are now...you'll definitely hear what I'm talking about.
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font class="post"1b,121b,121Despite statements to the contrary, you do not have a monopoly on "real people".b,121b,121"Real people" live in Harlem as well as Austin. "Real people" live in central Pennsylvania, Youngstown Ohio, Ridgewood New Jersey, Tampa Bay and Oakland CA.b,121b,121The issues you say your "real people" are concerned about seem to dovetail with the ones you're personally concerned with; however, they're further down the list of many1"real live swing voters" I've had the opportunity to talk with.b,121b,121Most Americans are tired of war but they also want to eliminate Al Qaeda. Most Americans are against the bailout but do not want the economy to collapse. You may feel that recommitting to Afghanistan and supporting the bailout are deal breakers, but they're both necessary evils IMO. The candidate that can1best sell them to America and deflect the inevitable criticism will win a serious mandate.
b,121a question i have, what did y'all think of obama saying we haven't [bold]killed[/bold] osama yet, and saying that if pakistan interfered with us we should "take them out"...obviously im thinking those nervous comments were more geared towards the undecided voters who don't like his wishy washy stances and questioned his strength?
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font class="post"1b,121b,121I thought that "take them out" referred to al Qaida and not Pakistan.
b,121a question i have, what did y'all think of obama saying we haven't [bold]killed[/bold] osama yet, and saying that if pakistan interfered with us we should "take them out"...obviously im thinking those nervous comments were more geared towards the undecided voters who don't like his wishy washy stances and questioned his strength?
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b,121I thought that "take them out" referred to al Qaida and not Pakistan.
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font class="post"1b,121b,121ah, that makes sense, that was a WTF moment for me. i guess the scary part is others could have taken it the wrong way too...especially internationally.
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