b,121Obama lost to an exceedingly inferior candidate.
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b,121I1don't think McCain hit it for anyone that he didn't already have in the bag.
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b,121McCain was the right amount of folksy and presidential-acting. Obama was neither. 1-0 McCain.
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b,121I1don't buy that line of reasoning. I think that the country is in deep1enough shit that people are looking a little deeper than a folksy veneer.
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font class="post"1b,121b,121Your confidence in your fellow Americans is admirable. I do not share your confidence. I want Obama to win, but yet, I was quite underwhelmed by his performance. Taking off your pro-Dem glasses and taking a step back, you might change your opinions. I wanted Obama to slay him, but he just didn't, and it was disheartening. Watching the debate, I went in saying take what they give you + how1it's presented. Obama's presentation was good, but contained an elitist tenor that many Americans, especially undecideds, tend to reject.
b,121people need to stop wasting energy over the actual debate tactics. those aside, who REALLY won?
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font class="post"1b,121b,121We will know in 3 days when the tracking polls show1the shifts full on. Everything else is1pontification. You don't win these debates on points, its votes.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
A major land war in Afghanistan is1just what we need. I mean, it worked out so well for the Soviets.1And if the Pakistanis are unwilling to cooperate..."take em out". b,121b,121 img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/talib-doodoo.gif" alt="" /1
I was disappointed to hear Obama mention his support of offshore drilling more than once during the debate. But I do think he did well initially during the discussion of tax cuts and tax1breaks and shut Mccain down at that point. take that shit the thetaxbreaks.com
b,121I was disappointed to hear Obama mention his support of offshore drilling more than once during the debate.
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font class="post"1b,121b,121yeah, i1forgot about that. looks like the dems have caved completely on that republican gimmickb,121b,121caving= not presidential
This isn't the end yet!!!1I think we are all discouraged because we wanted to see Obama slay McCain and not hold back, but this isn't the end. Do as the repubs would do and spin it! Obama killed shit! He won! No question!
b,121dont forget that for all the sameness between the two and frustrating shit about obama...theres all that little shit that the president will do that will seriously affect things. a million and one appointments, not just to the supreme court, being the first that comes to mind
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font class="post"1b,121b,121I hear you and that's why I'm for Obama, but really we need some systemic change. This debate was so full of clich??s, smirking, and bullshit, that it reminded me of everything I hate in the two parties, both those guys are in someone's pocket.b,121b,121We need more than two choices on the1national stage.
I just got home and I'm catching up/watching it. I just saw McCain had this ad up online before he even left the building. Wild.b,121b,121object width="425" height="344"1param name="movie" value=""1/param1param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"1/param1embed src="" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"1/embed1/object1
Two parties mean seeking that slice of people in the middle, and vying for that is what was happening here this evening. A beautiful thing? No. Passable? Yes. 1Both sides took some shots, and both reveived some shots without bringing home a black eye. McCain slung more (tenuous) mud, Obama brushed his shoulders off in the most presidential of manners. What else are you going to look for out of the the first debate?
no 50/50b,121mccain was beat downb,121he looked sick manb,121dont down play the power of teevee imageb,121obama looked young and healthy and ready to move into the futureb,121mccain did not and that is also part of the debateb,121IMAGE IMAGE IMAGEb,121beyond the fact that mccain cannot hide forever from the fact that he is a republican.b,121how1classic at the start mccain all love love to teddy kb,121i call bologne.b,121and the way mccain refused to look at obama showed the kind of class-less old boy anger that is fueling his campaign .b,121mccain does not act like1a president or talk like1one.b,121he always uses little catch phrase sound bites that have less and less punchb,121" i will blah blah blah and i will veto blah blah and i will make them famous blah blah"b,121for real though mccain was straight pushed to the side.b,121he really had nothing to say that had any depth.b,121i1dont think anyone in america or the world is fooled.
That ad is dumb and will backfire. That being said, Obama's strong suit has never been debates. He's obviously smart and brings lots of points and facts to the table, he's also emotionally detached and can't give off that folksy down-home charm coupled with the nuts and bolts political talk. McCain and Biden are masters of that. b,121b,121I'd say he underperformed in this debate because he could've nailed Johnny boy on some serious shit but refrained. McCain's recent votes against veteran's packages and McCain's campaign chair in the pocket of Freddie Mac (and his numerous other lobbying connections) are two that come to mind immediatley.
McCain was either looking down or to the host the whole time. It's like1he didn't feel comfortable looking straight into Obama's eyes. Even when he was directly adressed by Obama.b,121I don't like1Obama at all but in my view he clearly won this debate.
I thought that McCain came out better in this debate - he reinforced the "I've been there before and I can do it again" old-hand stance that has the1nation favoring him as Commander-In-Chief. He also looked surprisingly good on the1Economical front and pulled at least a tie on those grounds - shocking, since he's looked so inept on that topic for the last week. On that topic, McCain pretty much repeated his "greed is bad" line over and over, but the American people need repetition to let messages set in - just ask every ad man ever - repetition is the most effective tool in their belt. Apply Directly To Forehead.b,121b,121 a href="http://mediacurves.com/" target="_blank"1This/a1 non-partisan site, however, overwhelmingly disagrees with me.b,121b,121History dictates that the first debate also is the most watched debate - and therefore the most important one. McCain should blunt Obama's lead in the polls a bit, but frankly, Obama didn't do poorly enough tonight to cede his overall lead. RCP has Obama at +4.2 now, and that might sag by -1.5, tops. McCain will have 2 weeks before the next Presidential debate to continue to blunder in real life. In the middle of that timespan, there is Sarah Palin and her big dumb mouth. Biden needs to underplay, underplay, underplay and let Palin distroy herself.b,121b,121By the time of the actual debate on the1economy - October 13th - the1economic bailout bill will have been signed and won't be as much of an issue for Obama to stomp McCain with. It's simply bad timing for Obama to have flopped on it tonight. Obama really should have gotten tough with McCain over the latter's current, grotesque stances on plans for continued deregulation (!!!!!). The biggest winners for Obama were near the1end with the Spain assertation (which McCain actually didn't address but flipped off with a crack about the Obama Seal) and the 100% correct Kissenger/unconditional Iran talks point. On the latter issue, McCain proved that he was completely unaware his most recognized foreign policy member was opposed to his most-hammered foreign policy talking point. Ouch.b,121b,121And: that McCain ad is a loser. If anything, it demonstrates that Barack Obama is willing to admit truth where it lies and can give credit where credit is due. Is it a negative to ever agree with your competitor? Does it indicate that a man is not a leader when he understands that his opponent occasionally grasps reason or truth? These are the direct assertations of this ad, and this1position unwittingly ties John McCain to the polarizing stances of our current President.
I didn't catch the debates but all the polling numbers I've seen (suspect as they may be right now) says Obama > McCain. Consistently.1Especially amongst undecideds. b,121b,121I think people above are spot on: Obama is not the great f*cking savior for the Left. What he is? Not Bush and not McCain.b,121b,121Good enough for my vote!
McCain. Consistently.1Especially amongst undecideds. b,121b,121I think people above are spot on: Obama is not the great f*cking savior for the Left. What he is? Not Bush and not McCain.b,121b,121Good enough for my vote! b,121b,121h,121
b,121Obama lost to an exceedingly inferior candidate.
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b,121I don't think McCain hit it for anyone that he didn't already have in the bag.
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b,121McCain was the right amount of folksy and presidential-acting. Obama was neither. 1-0 McCain.
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font class="post"1b,121Your assessment is flawed. "Folksy" is hardly the word that comes to mind with McCain. Rather, I think a better phrase would be "faux humility". Even with respect to his service as a soldier and prisoner of war, he hasn't exactly been the most adept at endearing himself to the public - Obama actually wins on that point by default. I think a lot of people watching the debate saw through a lot of McCain's smokescreens and he actually came off as sarcastic, acerbic (with his choice of words) and overly and annoyingly condescending...b,121b,121The American people are past the point of being satisfied with someone who is "folksy". Most of the people in the Ohio focus group tended to actually not be interested in McCain as a personality. Rather, they were frustrated that McCain and Obama didn't stay on topic when Lehrer posed a question. Lehrer is such a plain-spoken guy that his questions actually shouldn't have been so hard to answer...b,121b,121As for the phrase "presidential-acting" you might have had a flashback to a debate either Reagan or Clinton participated in...In each case, both would-be presidents were facing incumbent presidents, and so your phrase "presidential-acting" is more applicable to those situations. The truth is, in some of those debates Clinton and Reagan actually did seem more presidential in their style of presentation and rhetoric than the elder Bush and Carter, respectively...Obama has actually appeared to be more "presidential-acting" (whatever you really mean by that) than McCain...b,121b,121This debate felt like1a draw with the edge given to Obama on the1economy (since he was able to personalize it better). McCain made a few good points about military strategy, but he was definitely not clear with any of his points. His points hinged more on an attack of Obama's position than on McCain's actual policy ideas - which I and a lot of other people read as a weakness. McCain is one of the few leaders who still thinks Iraq was a great idea from the beginning until now...Everyone can see through that. b,121b,121McCain probably didn't win anyone over other than his "base", and most independents were probably more impressed with Obama's more straightforward and direct responses. b,121b,121Neither candidate had any stellar moments tonight. This was supposed to be McCain's best night anyway, and he didn't convince me of anything. He is a formidable opponent though - very tenacious. But I am starting to think he may be bipolar and suffer from ADD. b,121b,121And don't believe that crap about him rushing back to Washington to negotiate the bailout situation and fix the1economy. Reports indicate he actually said very little during the White House meeting.
those debates are senseless. little kids forced not to start a fist fight or cry. your SUPER crises throughout everything happening right now are being untouched. b,121b,121america just caused a financial crisis throughout the world. it seems like1everyone else in the world is more concerned about that than the US. what has the1US government done in the last 10 years? b,121b,121the candidates are talking about each other. get familiar with the WORLD watching you. nobody cares about a US senator not attending a security council, obama being a smoker, mccain with the melanoma or vice presidents being retarded ladymonkeys with the urge to burn books. b,121b,121the image of the US is pretty much at the1bottom. gently said, lately, people outside the promised land tend to hate america. the debates don't help much.
bottom line, what does an undecided person perceive? what is their priority? b,121b,121a war dude that would protect this country (in which case mccain won this debate, showed no sign of indecisiveness or submission like1obama did by repeatedly saying "while i agree with mccain")b,121b,121vsb,121b,121a dude that could do something about the1economy? in which case obama had the edge.b,121?b,121b,121b,121a question i have, what did y'all think of obama saying we haven't [bold]killed[/bold] osama yet, and saying that if pakistan interfered with us we should "take them out"...obviously im thinking those nervous comments were more geared towards the undecided voters who don't like1his wishy washy stances and questioned his strength?
I found it very interesting, in re the current quagmire, that McCain didn't seem able to actually say the word 'Vietnam'. He even made Vietnam war related references several times (even at one point saying "when I came home from prison"), but I don't think he said the actual1name of the country.
Why aren't more people talking about how wreckless McCain can be?b,121b,121Did anyone catch his "spending freeze" proposal? Veteran care, military, and "a couple of other vital programs". He clearly had nothing to back this up and you can tell by watching his own reaction after said statement, that he was trying to figure out what, in fact, he had just proposed.
I'd hate to say it but McCain clearly won this debate. Obama needs to focus and make1his points stronger. Great speaker, not so great debater. F*ck, McCain was making a lot of sense to me.
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