Hell. She didn't even bother to vote on the telecom bill today. you people need to do a little hw.
neither of them voted on it. hillary was in texas campaigning and gave a speech and a written statement condemning the bill, despite the fact that it passed through democratic support. obama was crickets on it.
yeah, she's probably done Obama is down in the big states but I'd be surprised if he can't close the gap like he has done everywhere else
seems like she hasn't even tried to win most of the recent states? she's not going to Wisconsin until the weekend. strange strategy but entirely fine with me. hopefully it doesn't turn ugly in the end.
Hell. She didn't even bother to vote on the telecom bill today. you people need to do a little hw.
neither of them voted on it. hillary was in texas campaigning and gave a speech and a written statement condemning the bill, despite the fact that it passed through democratic support. obama was crickets on it.
U.S. Senate Roll Call Votes 110th Congress - 2nd Session
Statement of Purpose: To strike the provisions providing immunity from civil liability to electronic communication service providers for certain assistance provided to the Government.
Hell. She didn't even bother to vote on the telecom bill today. you people need to do a little hw.
neither of them voted on it. hillary was in texas campaigning and gave a speech and a written statement condemning the bill, despite the fact that it passed through democratic support. obama was crickets on it.
U.S. Senate Roll Call Votes 110th Congress - 2nd Session
Statement of Purpose: To strike the provisions providing immunity from civil liability to electronic communication service providers for certain assistance provided to the Government.
NO - YOU NEED TO DO YOUR HOMEWORK. that wasn't the bill that passed yesterday. that was just related to a motion to end debate. yesterday's bill before the senate approved giving immunity to phone companies and allows the govt to wiretap and then get permission after the fact. its terrible for civil rights and obama didn't vote on it.
where do you folks get your news from?
from today's NYT:
"Senator Barack Obama of Illinois and Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York, did not vote. Mr. Obama did oppose immunity on a key earlier motion to end debate. Mrs. Clinton, campaigning in Texas, issued a statement saying she would have voted to oppose the final measure"
McCain's campaign manager has basically told McCain that he will NOT manage him during the general election IF Obama is the Dem nominee. When pressed to explain himself, he said that he did not want to be a part of whatever campaign will ultimately seek to attack Obama.
WASHINGTON -- Hillary Clinton will take the Democratic nomination even if she does not win the popular vote, but persuades enough superdelegates to vote for her at the convention, her campaign advisers say.
The New York senator, who lost three primaries Tuesday night, now lags slightly behind her rival, Illinois Senator Barack Obama, in the delegate count. She is even further behind in "pledged'' delegates, those assigned by virtue of primaries and caucuses.
But Clinton will not concede the race to Obama if he wins a greater number of pledged delegates by the end of the primary season, and will count on the 796 elected officials and party bigwigs to put her over the top, if necessary, said Clinton's communications director, Howard Wolfson.
"I want to be clear about the fact that neither campaign is in a position to win this nomination without the support of the votes of the superdelegates,'' Wolfson told reporters in a conference call.
"We don't make distinctions between delegates chosen by million of voters in a primary and those chosen between tens of thousands in caucuses,'' Wolfson said. "And we don't make distinctions when it comes to elected officials'' who vote as superdelegates at the convention.
"We are interested in acquiring delegates, period,'' he added.
Clinton advisers rejected the notion that the candidate -- and the party -- would be badly wounded in the general election if the nominee were essentially selected by a group of party insiders.
"This is a nomination system that exists of caucuses, primaries, superdelegates and also the issue of voters in Florida and Michigan,'' states whose delegates currently will not be seated at the convention because they broke party rules by moving up their primaries to January, said Mark Penn, senior strategist for the Clinton campaign. But "whoever the nominee is, the party will come together behind that nominee,'' he said.
If this plays out like Florida 2000, time to cue up Jaz's "Hypocritters."
By Susan Milligan, Globe Staff
WASHINGTON -- Hillary Clinton will take the Democratic nomination even if she does not win the popular vote, but persuades enough superdelegates to vote for her at the convention, her campaign advisers say.
The New York senator, who lost three primaries Tuesday night, now lags slightly behind her rival, Illinois Senator Barack Obama, in the delegate count. She is even further behind in "pledged'' delegates, those assigned by virtue of primaries and caucuses.
But Clinton will not concede the race to Obama if he wins a greater number of pledged delegates by the end of the primary season, and will count on the 796 elected officials and party bigwigs to put her over the top, if necessary, said Clinton's communications director, Howard Wolfson.
"I want to be clear about the fact that neither campaign is in a position to win this nomination without the support of the votes of the superdelegates,'' Wolfson told reporters in a conference call.
"We don't make distinctions between delegates chosen by million of voters in a primary and those chosen between tens of thousands in caucuses,'' Wolfson said. "And we don't make distinctions when it comes to elected officials'' who vote as superdelegates at the convention.
"We are interested in acquiring delegates, period,'' he added.
Clinton advisers rejected the notion that the candidate -- and the party -- would be badly wounded in the general election if the nominee were essentially selected by a group of party insiders.
"This is a nomination system that exists of caucuses, primaries, superdelegates and also the issue of voters in Florida and Michigan,'' states whose delegates currently will not be seated at the convention because they broke party rules by moving up their primaries to January, said Mark Penn, senior strategist for the Clinton campaign. But "whoever the nominee is, the party will come together behind that nominee,'' he said.
Fuck that. Hilary can hang on my chad if there's a repeat of 2000. I really hope that doesn't happen, but I wouldn't be surprised.
it would be ugly; I admit that.
fuck the Dems for not reforming the antiquated electoral system while they've been "in power." maybe we'll see it if we get a Dem in the White House, but I doubt it.
electoral college? no thanks.
I realize this is a sidenote to the primary thing, just saying.
who would it take to reform the delegate shit anyway? the DNC? fuck this BS.
I believe they instituted the super delegate system after 1976, to have a firewall in case another grassroots candidate ever gained support among the unwashed masses.
i think i'd be more than disappointed in my candidate if he/she had a chance to win, but backed out of the election. if the shoe was on the other foot, and obama had all these supporters and donors to report to, do you think he'd say - even though i have a good shot of winning after the superdelegates are counted, i'm going to gracefully bow out now, sorry team!
gtfohtwtbs. its not hillary's system. she didn't ask for the florida and michigan votes to be discounted either. not their rules.
(I missed this because I have KeithVanHillerynuts on ignore.)
I agree that it is weak for both to skip voting on the larger FISA bill. That's not what we're talking about here. The retroactive immunity protection is my major concern and that is what this Dodd amendment covered. Obama voted for it and Hillary skipped. Look at my post. I specifically referred to the telecoms vote not the overall FISA bill. You stupid fuck. You got that rodhamdick so far in, it's popped through the back of your throat into your brain.
And who's the lawyer? Lol.
But you know what? I'm gonna help you out a little bit because I feel sorry for you. Not like it matters cause your girl is done.
110th: BHO: 178 votes missed (38.3 percent of 465 total votes) HRC: 123 votes missed (26.5 percent of 465 total votes)
i think i'd be more than disappointed in my candidate if he/she had a chance to win, but backed out of the election. if the shoe was on the other foot, and obama had all these supporters and donors to report to, do you think he'd say - even though i have a good shot of winning after the superdelegates are counted, i'm going to gracefully bow out now, sorry team!
gtfohtwtbs. its not hillary's system. she didn't ask for the florida and michigan votes to be discounted either. not their rules.
So you'd be cool with Clinton suing to have the Michigan and Florida delegates count?
i think i'd be more than disappointed in my candidate if he/she had a chance to win, but backed out of the election. if the shoe was on the other foot, and obama had all these supporters and donors to report to, do you think he'd say - even though i have a good shot of winning after the superdelegates are counted, i'm going to gracefully bow out now, sorry team!
gtfohtwtbs. its not hillary's system. she didn't ask for the florida and michigan votes to be discounted either. not their rules.
Fighting tooth and nail for superdelegates after losing the popular vote is ridiculous. If that's what ends up happening, Shame On Hillary. The Democrats cannot have it both ways, claiming Gore actually won the popular vote in 2000 and then weaseling out a victory through Party rules and discarding the popular vote in 2008.
And you ask me why I'm a registered Independent.
As for Florida and Michigan, Hillary did not protest the party's ruling, she agreed with it, she did not campaign in either state but did just enough (leaving her name on the ballot in MI, showing up on the day of the primary in FL) to give herself some room to wiggle if she needed the extra boost. Both of those primaries were illegitimate and seating delegates proportionally based on their outcome would be illegitimate too.
Shit is calculated and slimy. I will not sit this election out but if I end up pulling the lever for Clinton behind this I will be doing so with a bitter taste in my mouth.
i think i'd be more than disappointed in my candidate if he/she had a chance to win, but backed out of the election. if the shoe was on the other foot, and obama had all these supporters and donors to report to, do you think he'd say - even though i have a good shot of winning after the superdelegates are counted, i'm going to gracefully bow out now, sorry team!
gtfohtwtbs. its not hillary's system. she didn't ask for the florida and michigan votes to be discounted either. not their rules.
Yeah, her hardcore supporters and donors may condone this strategy but those aren't the folks she has to win over at this point. How do you think this is going to be perceived by superdelegates (and the voters in the remaining primaries) who are still on the fence? They're presumably waiting to see who will be the strongest candidate for November and if Hillary is going to alienate 51 percent of the party by sliding into the nomination through the back door then things are not going to go so well for her against McCain. I'm not saying I would expect her to not do everything she can to get nominated, but from a p.r. standpoint it does not seem artful the way they are framing this.
i think i'd be more than disappointed in my candidate if he/she had a chance to win, but backed out of the election. if the shoe was on the other foot, and obama had all these supporters and donors to report to, do you think he'd say - even though i have a good shot of winning after the superdelegates are counted, i'm going to gracefully bow out now, sorry team!
gtfohtwtbs. its not hillary's system. she didn't ask for the florida and michigan votes to be discounted either. not their rules.
Yeah, her hardcore supporters and donors may condone this strategy but those aren't the folks she has to win over at this point. How do you think this is going to be perceived by superdelegates (and the voters in the remaining primaries) who are still on the fence? They're presumably waiting to see who will be the strongest candidate for November and if Hillary is going to alienate 51 percent of the party by sliding into the nomination through the back door then things are not going to go so well for her against McCain. I'm not saying I would expect her to not do everything she can to get nominated, but from a p.r. standpoint it does not seem artful the way they are framing this.
And same would go in the other direction. Obama wouldn't look good if he tried to backdoor his way into the nom either.
i think i'd be more than disappointed in my candidate if he/she had a chance to win, but backed out of the election. if the shoe was on the other foot, and obama had all these supporters and donors to report to, do you think he'd say - even though i have a good shot of winning after the superdelegates are counted, i'm going to gracefully bow out now, sorry team!
gtfohtwtbs. its not hillary's system. she didn't ask for the florida and michigan votes to be discounted either. not their rules.
If she gets the Superdelegates fair and square, that is one thing. If she tries to litigate herself into the candidacy with regard to Florida and Michigan, that is another deal altogether. A lot of us would be disgusted by that situation.
And yes, I do think Obama would bow out because he would have his day later. Hillary knows it's now or never, and it will probably (hopefully) be never. If she bullies her way in, the Dems deserve the loss that would inevitably follow. If she turns the tide and starts winning, creates the necessary momentum, thats a horse of a different color. But I find that scenario hard to visualize at this point.
Shit is calculated and slimy. I will not sit this election out but if I end up pulling the lever for Clinton behind this I will be doing so with a bitter taste in my mouth.
If this is how it goes down, I will vote 3rd party, or possibly consider voting for McCain. CONSIDER it....that is how strongly I think the Dems are wrong to back Hillary in that scenario. If she wins big from here on out, different story.
Shit is calculated and slimy. I will not sit this election out but if I end up pulling the lever for Clinton behind this I will be doing so with a bitter taste in my mouth.
If this is how it goes down, I will vote 3rd party, or possibly consider voting for McCain. CONSIDER it....that is how strongly I think the Dems are wrong to back Hillary in that scenario. If she wins big from here on out, different story.
I'm sorta there, but I don't know if I could bring myself to vote for version 2008 McCain. I'd just have to find solace in the fact that Bush is gone.
If she tries to litigate herself into the candidacy with regard to Florida and Michigan, that is another deal altogether. A lot of us would be disgusted by that situation.
you should hear the noise that her local MI politico supporters are making, "at least she cared enough about Michigan voters to leave her name on the ballot..." - that was Congressman Dingle from Dearborn
Shit is calculated and slimy. I will not sit this election out but if I end up pulling the lever for Clinton behind this I will be doing so with a bitter taste in my mouth.
If this is how it goes down, I will vote 3rd party, or possibly consider voting for McCain. CONSIDER it....that is how strongly I think the Dems are wrong to back Hillary in that scenario. If she wins big from here on out, different story.
I'm sorta there, but I don't know if I could bring myself to vote for version 2008 McCain. I'd just have to find solace in the fact that Bush is gone.
I would consider it, and most likely opt for a third party. I live in DC...the Dems could hang Britney Spears as the candidate and she would sweep the election in DC, so my protest vote would only allow me to sleep better, nothing else.
Comments
neither of them voted on it. hillary was in texas campaigning and gave a speech and a written statement condemning the bill, despite the fact that it passed through democratic support. obama was crickets on it.
do a little homework?
Obama is down in the big states but I'd be surprised if he can't close the gap like he has done everywhere else
seems like she hasn't even tried to win most of the recent states? she's not going to Wisconsin until the weekend. strange strategy but entirely fine with me. hopefully it doesn't turn ugly in the end.
dude. come on.
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/ro...&vote=00015#top
U.S. Senate Roll Call Votes 110th Congress - 2nd Session
Statement of Purpose: To strike the provisions providing immunity from civil liability to electronic communication service providers for certain assistance provided to the Government.
Grouped By Vote Position YEAs ---31
Akaka (D-HI)
Baucus (D-MT)
Biden (D-DE)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Boxer (D-CA)
Brown (D-OH)
Byrd (D-WV)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Cardin (D-MD)
Casey (D-PA)
Dodd (D-CT)
Dorgan (D-ND)
Durbin (D-IL)
Feingold (D-WI)
Harkin (D-IA)
Kennedy (D-MA)
Kerry (D-MA)
Klobuchar (D-MN)
Lautenberg (D-NJ)
Leahy (D-VT)
Levin (D-MI)
Menendez (D-NJ)
Murray (D-WA)
Obama (D-IL)[/b]
Reed (D-RI)
Reid (D-NV)
Sanders (I-VT)
Schumer (D-NY)
Tester (D-MT)
Whitehouse (D-RI)
Wyden (D-OR)
NAYs ---67
Alexander (R-TN)
Allard (R-CO)
Barrasso (R-WY)
Bayh (D-IN)
Bennett (R-UT)
Bond (R-MO)
Brownback (R-KS)
Bunning (R-KY)
Burr (R-NC)
Carper (D-DE)
Chambliss (R-GA)
Coburn (R-OK)
Cochran (R-MS)
Coleman (R-MN)
Collins (R-ME)
Conrad (D-ND)
Corker (R-TN)
Cornyn (R-TX)
Craig (R-ID)
Crapo (R-ID)
DeMint (R-SC)
Dole (R-NC)
Domenici (R-NM)
Ensign (R-NV)
Enzi (R-WY)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Grassley (R-IA)
Gregg (R-NH)
Hagel (R-NE)
Hatch (R-UT)
Hutchison (R-TX)
Inhofe (R-OK)
Inouye (D-HI)
Isakson (R-GA)
Johnson (D-SD)
Kohl (D-WI)
Kyl (R-AZ)
Landrieu (D-LA)
Lieberman (ID-CT)
Lincoln (D-AR)
Lugar (R-IN)
Martinez (R-FL)
McCain (R-AZ)
McCaskill (D-MO)
McConnell (R-KY)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Murkowski (R-AK)
Nelson (D-FL)
Nelson (D-NE)
Pryor (D-AR)
Roberts (R-KS)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Salazar (D-CO)
Sessions (R-AL)
Shelby (R-AL)
Smith (R-OR)
Snowe (R-ME)
Specter (R-PA)
Stabenow (D-MI)
Stevens (R-AK)
Sununu (R-NH)
Thune (R-SD)
Vitter (R-LA)
Voinovich (R-OH)
Warner (R-VA)
Webb (D-VA)
Wicker (R-MS)
Not Voting - 2
Clinton (D-NY)[/b]
Graham (R-SC)
Homework completed.
where do you folks get your news from?
from today's NYT:
"Senator Barack Obama of Illinois and Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York, did not vote. Mr. Obama did oppose immunity on a key earlier motion to end debate. Mrs. Clinton, campaigning in Texas, issued a statement saying she would have voted to oppose the final measure"
According to the link, this was a vote from 2/12/08......yesterday.
What am I missing?
Understood
Listen towards the end: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=18958535
McCain's campaign manager has basically told McCain that he will NOT manage him during the general election IF Obama is the Dem nominee. When pressed to explain himself, he said that he did not want to be a part of whatever campaign will ultimately seek to attack Obama.
WASHINGTON -- Hillary Clinton will take the Democratic nomination even if she does not win the popular vote, but persuades enough superdelegates to vote for her at the convention, her campaign advisers say.
The New York senator, who lost three primaries Tuesday night, now lags slightly behind her rival, Illinois Senator Barack Obama, in the delegate count. She is even further behind in "pledged'' delegates, those assigned by virtue of primaries and caucuses.
But Clinton will not concede the race to Obama if he wins a greater number of pledged delegates by the end of the primary season, and will count on the 796 elected officials and party bigwigs to put her over the top, if necessary, said Clinton's communications director, Howard Wolfson.
"I want to be clear about the fact that neither campaign is in a position to win this nomination without the support of the votes of the superdelegates,'' Wolfson told reporters in a conference call.
"We don't make distinctions between delegates chosen by million of voters in a primary and those chosen between tens of thousands in caucuses,'' Wolfson said. "And we don't make distinctions when it comes to elected officials'' who vote as superdelegates at the convention.
"We are interested in acquiring delegates, period,'' he added.
Clinton advisers rejected the notion that the candidate -- and the party -- would be badly wounded in the general election if the nominee were essentially selected by a group of party insiders.
"This is a nomination system that exists of caucuses, primaries, superdelegates and also the issue of voters in Florida and Michigan,'' states whose delegates currently will not be seated at the convention because they broke party rules by moving up their primaries to January, said Mark Penn, senior strategist for the Clinton campaign. But "whoever the nominee is, the party will come together behind that nominee,'' he said.
Fuck that. Hilary can hang on my chad if there's a repeat of 2000. I really hope that doesn't happen, but I wouldn't be surprised.
it would be ugly; I admit that.
fuck the Dems for not reforming the antiquated electoral system while they've been "in power." maybe we'll see it if we get a Dem in the White House, but I doubt it.
electoral college? no thanks.
I realize this is a sidenote to the primary thing, just saying.
who would it take to reform the delegate shit anyway? the DNC? fuck this BS.
gtfohtwtbs. its not hillary's system. she didn't ask for the florida and michigan votes to be discounted either. not their rules.
Wait a goddamn second!
(I missed this because I have KeithVanHillerynuts on ignore.)
I agree that it is weak for both to skip voting on the larger FISA bill. That's not what we're talking about here. The retroactive immunity protection is my major concern and that is what this Dodd amendment covered. Obama voted for it and Hillary skipped. Look at my post. I specifically referred to the telecoms vote not the overall FISA bill. You stupid fuck. You got that rodhamdick so far in, it's popped through the back of your throat into your brain.
And who's the lawyer? Lol.
But you know what? I'm gonna help you out a little bit because I feel sorry for you. Not like it matters cause your girl is done.
110th:
BHO: 178 votes missed (38.3 percent of 465 total votes)
HRC: 123 votes missed (26.5 percent of 465 total votes)
So you'd be cool with Clinton suing to have the Michigan and Florida delegates count?
Fighting tooth and nail for superdelegates after losing the popular vote is ridiculous. If that's what ends up happening, Shame On Hillary. The Democrats cannot have it both ways, claiming Gore actually won the popular vote in 2000 and then weaseling out a victory through Party rules and discarding the popular vote in 2008.
And you ask me why I'm a registered Independent.
As for Florida and Michigan, Hillary did not protest the party's ruling, she agreed with it, she did not campaign in either state but did just enough (leaving her name on the ballot in MI, showing up on the day of the primary in FL) to give herself some room to wiggle if she needed the extra boost. Both of those primaries were illegitimate and seating delegates proportionally based on their outcome would be illegitimate too.
Shit is calculated and slimy. I will not sit this election out but if I end up pulling the lever for Clinton behind this I will be doing so with a bitter taste in my mouth.
Yeah, her hardcore supporters and donors may condone this strategy but those aren't the folks she has to win over at this point. How do you think this is going to be perceived by superdelegates (and the voters in the remaining primaries) who are still on the fence? They're presumably waiting to see who will be the strongest candidate for November and if Hillary is going to alienate 51 percent of the party by sliding into the nomination through the back door then things are not going to go so well for her against McCain. I'm not saying I would expect her to not do everything she can to get nominated, but from a p.r. standpoint it does not seem artful the way they are framing this.
And same would go in the other direction. Obama wouldn't look good if he tried to backdoor his way into the nom either.
If she gets the Superdelegates fair and square, that is one thing. If she tries to litigate herself into the candidacy with regard to Florida and Michigan, that is another deal altogether. A lot of us would be disgusted by that situation.
And yes, I do think Obama would bow out because he would have his day later. Hillary knows it's now or never, and it will probably (hopefully) be never. If she bullies her way in, the Dems deserve the loss that would inevitably follow.
If she turns the tide and starts winning, creates the necessary momentum, thats a horse of a different color. But I find that scenario hard to visualize at this point.
If this is how it goes down, I will vote 3rd party, or possibly consider voting for McCain. CONSIDER it....that is how strongly I think the Dems are wrong to back Hillary in that scenario. If she wins big from here on out, different story.
I'm sorta there, but I don't know if I could bring myself to vote for version 2008 McCain. I'd just have to find solace in the fact that Bush is gone.
you should hear the noise that her local MI politico supporters are making, "at least she cared enough about Michigan voters to leave her name on the ballot..." - that was Congressman Dingle from Dearborn
I would consider it, and most likely opt for a third party. I live in DC...the Dems could hang Britney Spears as the candidate and she would sweep the election in DC, so my protest vote would only allow me to sleep better, nothing else.
I wish I was a betting man.