well, not sure what you're definition of "Semite" is but the fact is that most[/b] Israeli Jews are from Israel (some never left), Iran, Iraq, Iraqi Kurdistan, Syria, Lebanon, Yemen, Afghanistan, North Africa (Algeria, Tunisia, Morrcco, Libya) or elsewhere in the Muslim world, or are the children of Jews from Israel, Iran, Iraq, Iraqi Kurdistan, Syria, Lebanon, Yemen, Afghanistan, North Africa (Algeria, Tunisia, Morrcco, Libya) or elsewhere in the Muslim world. That's well over 50% of the Jewish population of Israel.
anyway "Semite" is a tricky word since it originally referred to languages (like Hebrew and Amharic, both spoken in present-day Israel), but has since come to mean a host of other things to different people.
Yeah dude... a real LIVE lizard people worship ceremony... you know... for kids.
The interesting thing is that the addition of the lizard doesn't make it all that much weirder...
It's pretty fucked up to see kids getting brainwashed like that. Is this a clip from "Jesus Camp"?
I'm afraid to watch Jesus Camp. I think it might damage me... like it might send me in to a permanent demented rage and I'll have to wind up in a straight jacket. It almost seems like child abuse to me.
Yeah, the Jewish stuff is wack. I'm used to it, though. When they kill millions of your people, one dude on the internet is just water off a duck's back.
Yeah dude... a real LIVE lizard people worship ceremony... you know... for kids.
The interesting thing is that the addition of the lizard doesn't make it all that much weirder...
It's pretty fucked up to see kids getting brainwashed like that. Is this a clip from "Jesus Camp"?
I'm afraid to watch Jesus Camp. I think it might damage me... like it might send me in to a permanent demented rage and I'll have to wind up in a straight jacket. It almost seems like child abuse to me.
Yeah dude... a real LIVE lizard people worship ceremony... you know... for kids.
The interesting thing is that the addition of the lizard doesn't make it all that much weirder...
It's pretty fucked up to see kids getting brainwashed like that. Is this a clip from "Jesus Camp"?
I'm afraid to watch Jesus Camp. I think it might damage me... like it might send me in to a permanent demented rage and I'll have to wind up in a straight jacket. It almost seems like child abuse to me.
Yeah, sort of. There was some unintentional comedy inthat movie, largely coming from the grown-ups (including Ted Haggard, who put down the meth pipe long enough to make a truly assholic appearance), but for the most part, I just felt bad for the kids.
Yeah dude... a real LIVE lizard people worship ceremony... you know... for kids.
The interesting thing is that the addition of the lizard doesn't make it all that much weirder...
It's pretty fucked up to see kids getting brainwashed like that. Is this a clip from "Jesus Camp"?
I'm afraid to watch Jesus Camp. I think it might damage me... like it might send me in to a permanent demented rage and I'll have to wind up in a straight jacket. It almost seems like child abuse to me.
Yeah, sort of. There was some unintentional comedy in that movie, largely coming from the grown-ups (including Ted Haggard, who put down the meth pipe long enough to make a truly assholic appearance), but for the most part, I just felt bad for the kids.
It's an amazing movie you should definately watch it. I found 'Hell House' more distubing. Jesus Camp is a better movie, but Hell House is also very good.
director of Hell House's first fictional feature, an odd dark comedy/thriller called Joshua, just came out DVD. He's starting to put together an interesting body of work.
just as there are organized, hateful anti-semitic web sites, books, campaigns, etc, there also exist presumably unorganized but equally loathsome people/groups in the US who get their kicks spending their free time hatefully attempting to silence all criticism of Israeli gov/army. Ergo, the death threats I rec'd... the vibe of which was "because 'my people' have suffered, I cannot tolerate any mention of -- let alone questions about or criticism of -- situations in which some of 'my people' inflict suffering on others."
This is a sad form of entitlement I do not understand... what a better world it would be if anyone who has suffered emerged from that experience w/ an even deeper investment in the elimination of all human suffering, /gender/creed.
If I understand your argument correctly, those people to whom you attribute a sense of entitlement are the type who send out death threats, and therefore at best a marginal fringe. Nonetheless, you imply that people who have experienced suffering ought to be more invested in the elimination of human suffering than their own. That's a noble sentiment and one well worth pursuing, but as a standard against which to judge the actions of those people who have suffered it fails miserably and is not a little patronising.
just as there are organized, hateful anti-semitic web sites, books, campaigns, etc, there also exist presumably unorganized but equally loathsome people/groups in the US who get their kicks spending their free time hatefully attempting to silence all criticism of Israeli gov/army. Ergo, the death threats I rec'd... the vibe of which was "because 'my people' have suffered, I cannot tolerate any mention of -- let alone questions about or criticism of -- situations in which some of 'my people' inflict suffering on others."
This is a sad form of entitlement I do not understand... what a better world it would be if anyone who has suffered emerged from that experience w/ an even deeper investment in the elimination of all human suffering, /gender/creed.
If I understand your argument correctly, those people to whom you attribute a sense of entitlement are the type who send out death threats, and therefore at best a marginal fringe. Nonetheless, you imply that people who have experienced suffering ought to be more invested in the elimination of human suffering than their own. That's a noble sentiment and one well worth pursuing, but as a standard against which to judge the actions of those people who have suffered it fails miserably and is not a little patronising.
Nah, that's not what I'm saying.
I agree that people who send out death threats are a marginal fringe -- although I do find it interesting that I've never rec'd a death threat, or even a piece of personal mail, for anything I've published critical of any other nation's government or military (and the list of those articles is rather long), but have rec'd 2 death threats and over a dozen pieces of personal mail for two articles published about human-rights-oriented Palestinian docs -- articles that were humanitarian in tone, I should add, not "anti-Israel." Many of those letters I rec'd were hostile, and others condescendingly sought to "reeducate" me about Israel (interestingly, in many cases, with a Newsweek column by George Will from the 80s).
What I'm saying is that bringing up one's past suffering may provide context for current events, but doesn't exonerate that person/entity for current misdeeds -- especially when the current misdeed is being perpetrated against a third party uninvolved in the past suffering. It seems like every conversation I've ever had about, say, Israeli tanks bulldozing a Palestian scholar's home, eventually brings up the Holocaust, or at least an allusion to past sufferings. Last time I looked, the Palestinians weren't calling the shots in Germany in 1939.
Yes, the Israeli people have suffered. So did the Germans in the 1920s. That doesn't mitigate the Third Reich's horrific atrocities of the 30s and 40s one iota, even if it does help us comprehend the political atmosphere that paved the way for the Holocaust to happen.
Some Israeli partisans do use the Holocaust as a "get out of jail free" card to silence critical discussion re: the Occupation. I don't see that as legitimate.
It seems like every conversation I've ever had about, say, Israeli tanks bulldozing a Palestian scholar's home, eventually brings up the Holocaust
well you just seem to be arguing with lazy people then. it's not like Israel needs the Holocaust to justify killing terrorists (or to justify Jewish self-determination for that matter).
I'll be leaving this thread now.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
More Sun Ra knowledge (paraphrased and) dropped:
Any religion that leads to a single race being saved at the expense of all other races is a farce.
It seems like every conversation I've ever had about, say, Israeli tanks bulldozing a Palestian scholar's home, eventually brings up the Holocaust
well you just seem to be arguing with lazy people then.
Really? Not trying to be rude, but I feel like you did just that on page 8 of this thread. I was talking about people calling me anti-Semitic for a favorable review I wrote about a documentary about Palestinian children, and you said the following:
"but when a country the size of New Jersey, which is embroiled in a conflict that has claimed the lives of a fraction of a percent of the number killed in largely-ignored conflicts raging across the globe, but which nonetheless has entire movements, websites, political groups, magazines, editorials, TV specials, movies etc. devoted to criticizing it (and which also happens to be the one homeland of a global minority that has suffered horrific persecution since pretty much the beginning of recorded history)...well, you can forgive some Israel-supporters for occasionally jumping to conclusions."[/b]
It seems like every conversation I've ever had about, say, Israeli tanks bulldozing a Palestian scholar's home, eventually brings up the Holocaust
well you just seem to be arguing with lazy people then.
Really? Not trying to be rude, but I feel like you did just that on page 8 of this thread. I was talking about people calling me anti-Semitic for a favorable review I wrote about a documentary about Palestinian children, and you said the following:
"but when a country the size of New Jersey, which is embroiled in a conflict that has claimed the lives of a fraction of a percent of the number killed in largely-ignored conflicts raging across the globe, but which nonetheless has entire movements, websites, political groups, magazines, editorials, TV specials, movies etc. devoted to criticizing it (and which also happens to be the one homeland of a global minority that has suffered horrific persecution since pretty much the beginning of recorded history)...well, you can forgive some Israel-supporters for occasionally jumping to conclusions."[/b]
Read it again. I was explaining why some Jews suspect anti-Semitism when Israel is subject to constant criticism. To sum up my argument again: people can't seem to shut up about Israel, when in fact Israel acts like any other state under the circumstances; a lot of Jews see that as an extension of classic Jew blame; given the Jews' history, it's hard to blame many of them for seeing it that way.
get it?
my reference to the Holocaust had zero to do with any actions of the Israeli gov't or military as you suggest.
"And then when I went to Chicago, that's when I had these outer space experiences and went to the other planets." Sun Ra
What I'm dealing with is so vast and great that it can't be called the truth. It's above the truth. Sun Ra
I've probably mentioned this before, but. When I lived in Syracuse my downstairs neighbor did sound. He was setting up for a Sun Ra show in the park. A few band members started to arrive and he asked how many people would be on stage, how many mics would they need... And the guys said, "hard to say, Syracuse is a long drive". He's like 'fhat the wuck! you come all the way from Saturn and now you complain Syracuse is too far a drive'.
It seems like every conversation I've ever had about, say, Israeli tanks bulldozing a Palestian scholar's home, eventually brings up the Holocaust
well you just seem to be arguing with lazy people then.
Really? Not trying to be rude, but I feel like you did just that on page 8 of this thread. I was talking about people calling me anti-Semitic for a favorable review I wrote about a documentary about Palestinian children, and you said the following:
"but when a country the size of New Jersey, which is embroiled in a conflict that has claimed the lives of a fraction of a percent of the number killed in largely-ignored conflicts raging across the globe, but which nonetheless has entire movements, websites, political groups, magazines, editorials, TV specials, movies etc. devoted to criticizing it (and which also happens to be the one homeland of a global minority that has suffered horrific persecution since pretty much the beginning of recorded history)...well, you can forgive some Israel-supporters for occasionally jumping to conclusions."[/b]
Read it again. I was explaining why some Jews suspect anti-Semitism when Israel is subject to constant criticism. To sum up my argument again: people can't seem to shut up about Israel, when in fact Israel acts like any other state under the circumstances; a lot of Jews see that as an extension of classic Jew blame; given the Jews' history, it's hard to blame many of them for seeing it that way.
get it?
my reference to the Holocaust had zero to do with any actions of the Israeli gov't or military as you suggest.
You say that supporters of Israel occassionally jumping to conclusions -- i.e., believing the critic to be anti-Semitic -- is understandable given past suffering (which, you acknowledge above, is a reference to the Holocaust) -- in a conversation we were having about the Palestinian occupation.
That's exactly what I was saying. The Holocaust, for some, serves a "trump card" that allows legitimate conversation to be silenced with implications that the speaker is anti-semitic -- but it's "understandable" if some people (anyone who criticizes the occupation) are occassionally inaccurately labeled as an Anti-Semite because, uh, anti-Semitism does exist. Nah. It's so similar to critics of the Iraq war circa 2003 being called anti-American or unPatriotic, it's painful.
The idea that Israel "acts like any other country" in reference to the occupation of Palestine is not accurate. The list of countries that currently have military and police presences in lands they seized by military force in the past 50 years is lamentably long, but thankfully not all-inclusive -- and to my mind if that list were only one country long, that country wouldn't be any more or less wrong; the occupation of Palestine is a situation beyond Israel's control, it's a situation it originated. And for the record, I oppose British military/police presence in Ireland and US military/police presence in Iraq and other countries as often and as vehemently as I do Israeli military/police presence in Palestine.
It seems like every conversation I've ever had about, say, Israeli tanks bulldozing a Palestian scholar's home, eventually brings up the Holocaust
well you just seem to be arguing with lazy people then.
Really? Not trying to be rude, but I feel like you did just that on page 8 of this thread. I was talking about people calling me anti-Semitic for a favorable review I wrote about a documentary about Palestinian children, and you said the following:
"but when a country the size of New Jersey, which is embroiled in a conflict that has claimed the lives of a fraction of a percent of the number killed in largely-ignored conflicts raging across the globe, but which nonetheless has entire movements, websites, political groups, magazines, editorials, TV specials, movies etc. devoted to criticizing it (and which also happens to be the one homeland of a global minority that has suffered horrific persecution since pretty much the beginning of recorded history)...well, you can forgive some Israel-supporters for occasionally jumping to conclusions."[/b]
Read it again. I was explaining why some Jews suspect anti-Semitism when Israel is subject to constant criticism. To sum up my argument again: people can't seem to shut up about Israel, when in fact Israel acts like any other state under the circumstances; a lot of Jews see that as an extension of classic Jew blame; given the Jews' history, it's hard to blame many of them for seeing it that way.
get it?
my reference to the Holocaust had zero to do with any actions of the Israeli gov't or military as you suggest.
You say that supporters of Israel occassionally jumping to conclusions -- i.e., believing the critic to be anti-Semitic -- is understandable given past suffering (which, you acknowledge above, is a reference to the Holocaust) -- in a conversation we were having about the Palestinian occupation.
That's exactly what I was saying. The Holocaust, for some, serves a "trump card" that allows legitimate conversation to be silenced with implications that the speaker is anti-semitic -- but it's "understandable" if some people (anyone who criticizes the occupation) are occassionally inaccurately labeled as an Anti-Semite because, uh, anti-Semitism does exist. Nah. It's so similar to critics of the Iraq war circa 2003 being called anti-American or unPatriotic, it's painful.
The idea that Israel "acts like any other country" in reference to the occupation of Palestine is not accurate. The list of countries that currently have military and police presences in lands they seized by military force in the past 50 years is lamentably long, but thankfully not all-inclusive -- and to my mind if that list were only one country long, that country wouldn't be any more or less wrong; the occupation of Palestine is a situation beyond Israel's control, it's a situation it originated. And for the record, I oppose British military/police presence in Ireland and US military/police presence in Iraq and other countries as often and as vehemently as I do Israeli military/police presence in Palestine.
dude did you not read what I wrote? my reference to the Holcaust was not a trump card to silence anything. it was part of a larger explanation of why some Jews view obsessive criticism of Israel with suspicion. read it again. and if you still don't get it hit me with a PM. I don't know how much clearer I can be.
Any religion that leads to a single race being saved at the expense of all other races is a farce.
Are Jews a race of people? I thought it was a religion.
It is not easy to convert to Judaism. Judaism does not seek converts. Russian Jews, are not ethnically Russian. If Russian men wanted to convert to Judaism they would have to undergo circumcision. That alone keeps the number of converts low. Thus, most Jews today are direct descendants of the members of the original Jewish tribes.
There has long been a Jewish community in South Africa. Anthropologist doubted that they were really descendant from Biblical Jews. Just some weird Zulus who kept kosher and circumcised their newborn boys. More recently through dna testing it was found that they carried the unique Cohen gene in the same percentage of the population as Jewish populations from Russia to Singapore to Syria.
To answer your question, race is scientifically meaningless, we are all human.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
But Sun Ra says that if your blood ain't from ETHIOPS ie. the original Eastern Ethiopia which was located along the Indus River in India and a community that was a product of strictly black Lemurians who migrated there from the Pacific and you aren't a descendent of those ETHIOPIANS who migrated by sea to Egypt and eventually found themselves being delivered from bondage by Moses...then you are a convert rather than a real Jew.
But Sun Ra says that if your blood ain't from ETHIOPS ie. the original Eastern Ethiopia which was located along the Indus River in India and a community that was a product of strictly black Lemurians who migrated there from the Pacific and you aren't a descendent of those ETHIOPIANS who migrated by sea to Egypt and eventually found themselves being delivered from bondage by Moses...then you are a convert rather than a real Jew.
Dude.....WHAT THE HELL MAKES SUN RA AN AUTHORITY ON ANYDAMNTHING!
You might as well quote Ted Nugent or Wesley Willis!
dude did you not read what I wrote? my reference to the Holcaust was not a trump card to silence anything. it was part of a larger explanation of why some Jews view obsessive criticism of Israel with suspicion. read it again. and if you still don't get it hit me with a PM. I don't know how much clearer I can be.
I do understand what you're saying, and perhaps am just lamenting the fact that a lot of legitimate criticism of Israel has been written off as obsessive criticism of Israel, sometimes with the Holocaust or even charges of anti-semitism being invoked in inappropriate ways. Sounds like you feel this is inappropriate, too, and that we probably just disagree about how often this happens... a disagreement probably magnified by the fact that we look at the Israeli/Palestinian situation from if not "opposite" at least "different" perspectives.
In short, probably not a very meaningful disagreement and certainly not one to carry over into the weekend.
Comments
to his music. All is revealed to those who endeavor to listen.
well, not sure what you're definition of "Semite" is but the fact is that most[/b] Israeli Jews are from Israel (some never left), Iran, Iraq, Iraqi Kurdistan, Syria, Lebanon, Yemen, Afghanistan, North Africa (Algeria, Tunisia, Morrcco, Libya) or elsewhere in the Muslim world, or are the children of Jews from Israel, Iran, Iraq, Iraqi Kurdistan, Syria, Lebanon, Yemen, Afghanistan, North Africa (Algeria, Tunisia, Morrcco, Libya) or elsewhere in the Muslim world. That's well over 50% of the Jewish population of Israel.
anyway "Semite" is a tricky word since it originally referred to languages (like Hebrew and Amharic, both spoken in present-day Israel), but has since come to mean a host of other things to different people.
that is so goddam brilliant.
Yeah dude... a real LIVE lizard people worship ceremony... you know... for kids.
The interesting thing is that the addition of the lizard doesn't make it all that much weirder...
It's pretty fucked up to see kids getting brainwashed like that. Is this a clip from "Jesus Camp"?
I'm afraid to watch Jesus Camp. I think it might damage me... like it might send me in to a permanent demented rage and I'll have to wind up in a straight jacket. It almost seems like child abuse to me.
It's K-Rino! Ryno is another dude.
Yeah, the Jewish stuff is wack. I'm used to it, though. When they kill millions of your people, one dude on the internet is just water off a duck's back.
It is.
Yeah, sort of. There was some unintentional comedy inthat movie, largely coming from the grown-ups (including Ted Haggard, who put down the meth pipe long enough to make a truly assholic appearance), but for the most part, I just felt bad for the kids.
It's an amazing movie you should definately watch it. I found 'Hell House' more distubing.
Jesus Camp is a better movie, but Hell House is also very good.
director of Hell House's first fictional feature, an odd dark comedy/thriller called Joshua, just came out DVD. He's starting to put together an interesting body of work.
If I understand your argument correctly, those people to whom you attribute a sense of entitlement are the type who send out death threats, and therefore at best a marginal fringe. Nonetheless, you imply that people who have experienced suffering ought to be more invested in the elimination of human suffering than their own. That's a noble sentiment and one well worth pursuing, but as a standard against which to judge the actions of those people who have suffered it fails miserably and is not a little patronising.
Nah, that's not what I'm saying.
I agree that people who send out death threats are a marginal fringe -- although I do find it interesting that I've never rec'd a death threat, or even a piece of personal mail, for anything I've published critical of any other nation's government or military (and the list of those articles is rather long), but have rec'd 2 death threats and over a dozen pieces of personal mail for two articles published about human-rights-oriented Palestinian docs -- articles that were humanitarian in tone, I should add, not "anti-Israel." Many of those letters I rec'd were hostile, and others condescendingly sought to "reeducate" me about Israel (interestingly, in many cases, with a Newsweek column by George Will from the 80s).
What I'm saying is that bringing up one's past suffering may provide context for current events, but doesn't exonerate that person/entity for current misdeeds -- especially when the current misdeed is being perpetrated against a third party uninvolved in the past suffering. It seems like every conversation I've ever had about, say, Israeli tanks bulldozing a Palestian scholar's home, eventually brings up the Holocaust, or at least an allusion to past sufferings. Last time I looked, the Palestinians weren't calling the shots in Germany in 1939.
Yes, the Israeli people have suffered. So did the Germans in the 1920s. That doesn't mitigate the Third Reich's horrific atrocities of the 30s and 40s one iota, even if it does help us comprehend the political atmosphere that paved the way for the Holocaust to happen.
Some Israeli partisans do use the Holocaust as a "get out of jail free" card to silence critical discussion re: the Occupation. I don't see that as legitimate.
well you just seem to be arguing with lazy people then. it's not like Israel needs the Holocaust to justify killing terrorists (or to justify Jewish self-determination for that matter).
I'll be leaving this thread now.
Any religion that leads to a single race being saved at the expense of all other races is a farce.
Really? Not trying to be rude, but I feel like you did just that on page 8 of this thread. I was talking about people calling me anti-Semitic for a favorable review I wrote about a documentary about Palestinian children, and you said the following:
"but when a country the size of New Jersey, which is embroiled in a conflict that has claimed the lives of a fraction of a percent of the number killed in largely-ignored conflicts raging across the globe, but which nonetheless has entire movements, websites, political groups, magazines, editorials, TV specials, movies etc. devoted to criticizing it (and which also happens to be the one homeland of a global minority that has suffered horrific persecution since pretty much the beginning of recorded history)...well, you can forgive some Israel-supporters for occasionally jumping to conclusions."[/b]
"And then when I went to Chicago, that's when I had these outer space experiences and went to the other planets."
Sun Ra
What I'm dealing with is so vast and great that it can't be called the truth. It's above the truth.
Sun Ra
Jews don't save, they invest.
Read it again. I was explaining why some Jews suspect anti-Semitism when Israel is subject to constant criticism. To sum up my argument again: people can't seem to shut up about Israel, when in fact Israel acts like any other state under the circumstances; a lot of Jews see that as an extension of classic Jew blame; given the Jews' history, it's hard to blame many of them for seeing it that way.
get it?
my reference to the Holocaust had zero to do with any actions of the Israeli gov't or military as you suggest.
I've probably mentioned this before, but. When I lived in Syracuse my downstairs neighbor did sound. He was setting up for a Sun Ra show in the park. A few band members started to arrive and he asked how many people would be on stage, how many mics would they need... And the guys said, "hard to say, Syracuse is a long drive". He's like 'fhat the wuck! you come all the way from Saturn and now you complain Syracuse is too far a drive'.
Truth be told Syracuse is too far a drive.
You say that supporters of Israel occassionally jumping to conclusions -- i.e., believing the critic to be anti-Semitic -- is understandable given past suffering (which, you acknowledge above, is a reference to the Holocaust) -- in a conversation we were having about the Palestinian occupation.
That's exactly what I was saying. The Holocaust, for some, serves a "trump card" that allows legitimate conversation to be silenced with implications that the speaker is anti-semitic -- but it's "understandable" if some people (anyone who criticizes the occupation) are occassionally inaccurately labeled as an Anti-Semite because, uh, anti-Semitism does exist. Nah. It's so similar to critics of the Iraq war circa 2003 being called anti-American or unPatriotic, it's painful.
The idea that Israel "acts like any other country" in reference to the occupation of Palestine is not accurate. The list of countries that currently have military and police presences in lands they seized by military force in the past 50 years is lamentably long, but thankfully not all-inclusive -- and to my mind if that list were only one country long, that country wouldn't be any more or less wrong; the occupation of Palestine is a situation beyond Israel's control, it's a situation it originated. And for the record, I oppose British military/police presence in Ireland and US military/police presence in Iraq and other countries as often and as vehemently as I do Israeli military/police presence in Palestine.
dude did you not read what I wrote? my reference to the Holcaust was not a trump card to silence anything. it was part of a larger explanation of why some Jews view obsessive criticism of Israel with suspicion. read it again. and if you still don't get it hit me with a PM. I don't know how much clearer I can be.
Are Jews a race of people? I thought it was a religion.
There's more than enough of this to go around...
It is not easy to convert to Judaism. Judaism does not seek converts. Russian Jews, are not ethnically Russian. If Russian men wanted to convert to Judaism they would have to undergo circumcision. That alone keeps the number of converts low. Thus, most Jews today are direct descendants of the members of the original Jewish tribes.
There has long been a Jewish community in South Africa. Anthropologist doubted that they were really descendant from Biblical Jews. Just some weird Zulus who kept kosher and circumcised their newborn boys. More recently through dna testing it was found that they carried the unique Cohen gene in the same percentage of the population as Jewish populations from Russia to Singapore to Syria.
To answer your question, race is scientifically meaningless, we are all human.
Dude.....WHAT THE HELL MAKES SUN RA AN AUTHORITY ON ANYDAMNTHING!
You might as well quote Ted Nugent or Wesley Willis!
I do understand what you're saying, and perhaps am just lamenting the fact that a lot of legitimate criticism of Israel has been written off as obsessive criticism of Israel, sometimes with the Holocaust or even charges of anti-semitism being invoked in inappropriate ways. Sounds like you feel this is inappropriate, too, and that we probably just disagree about how often this happens... a disagreement probably magnified by the fact that we look at the Israeli/Palestinian situation from if not "opposite" at least "different" perspectives.
In short, probably not a very meaningful disagreement and certainly not one to carry over into the weekend.