Damn straight, reggae B-team[/b]. I said it and I'll stand on it like a rock. I don't HATE Marley - if I'm gonna own six albums by the man, he must be of SOME worth. NOW...Marley doesn't impact me the way Toots & the Maytals (***REGGAE A-TEAM***) or any of the Studio One and Trojan comps I own (***REGGAE A-TEAM***) or the Classics' "Mr. Fire Coal Man" (***YOU GET THE DRIFT, I WON'T WRITE THIS NO MO'***) or U-Roy's Version Galore or Dave & Ansell Collins' Double Barrel does.
Marley's okay. I just wouldn't put him way out in front of everybody else.
You seem to be confusing ska & rock steady with REGGAE!!!
The line gets thin at some point (although most of what I listed up there is too midtempo to be called ska).
Dude what plays in your private mind garden or your soul & rock Chitown playlists is one thing - the stature of one of reggae's greatest singers, Bob Marley, is not really up for discussion. You can pretend all of the Island catalog didn't exist and he'd rate top 10 on his early Coxsone and Upsetter work alone.
Dennis Brown 1. No Man Is An Island 2. Just Dennis 3. Joseph's Coat Of Many Colours 4. If I Follow My Heart 5. Superstar
And that list, while excellent, doesn't even include Wolf and Leopards, which alone should preclude him from anyone's B-Team.
I knew I was forgetting something. Funny I just got a minty original in too. Replace "Superstar" with that.
Man, who knew that people would want to ban/ignore you for expressing an opinion about the relative tiers of excellence within the reggae canon. What is even more laughable is that I made clear that my reggae b-team comments in no way reflected hatred toward said artists, only less appreciation than others. Seems like people hear what they want to hear.
I have a copy of Wolf and Leopards for sale right now, if anyone is interested.
Just to set the record straight. I only mentioned LPs of artists (Scientist and LKJ) who primarily worked in the LP format.
JP, As for recommendations, I wouldn't presume to tell you what is worth listening to. From your dub mix and your chatter on this board, I know that you are deep on the subject. You can definitely take care of yourself.
Things that I have been enjoying recently:
The Skull- Black Slavery Days Yabby You- Conquering Lion Victor Scott- Yes I Will Errol Dunkley- Black Cinderella Gaylads- Message to My Girl Bunny and Ricky- Freedom Fighter Melodians- Jericho
Dude what plays in your private mind garden or your soul & rock Chitown playlists is one thing - the stature of one of reggae's greatest singers, Bob Marley, is not really up for discussion. You can pretend all of the Island catalog didn't exist and he'd rate top 10 on his early Coxsone and Upsetter work alone.
RECOGNIZE AND RETROSPECT.
I mean, that Bob Marley isn't a reggae great is up for discussion is abhorrible...
but...I'm totally shocked by the A-team and B-team lists that were compiled, and the subsequent comments, etc...or at least what some of you are feeling/not feeling...but, I don't claim to be a reggae know it all...although...I do have enough of an exposure to know that I think some of you have been smoking rock..
and johnny...don't take Superstar off the list! I love that album...."Out in The Rain" is a Frickin' monster for me...plus, I like their cover of Black Magic Woman...
Folks are stictly buggin out here. There is a reason why Marley is univeral. the message in the musc. Though at times the political and word play is referencing jamaican issues (govt, police, etc) the way its pieced together is universal. The few places I have traveled , Venezuala, Israel, Toronto, Peru, His music is there and brings alot of inspiration to folks. Alot of folks simply love a nice rhythm when theyre nice and all that and I can dig that too.
and that b list is ur opinion and ur entitled to it but dennis brown and sugar minott? Scientist? not sure if he did any vocal performances. Last time I checked he was strictly production/mixing
Please listen to Dennis Brown - Wolf and Leopards or any digital sugar minott piece. African girl or ghettollogy.
I think we need to add Reggae to the list of stuff strutters are not qualified to speak on...
9 out of 10 times this is how I feel.
I'm all for having your own musical cannon but try and fuck with early to soul rebels era marley.
On the other hand the whole "embarassed to like a band because of their fans" always makes me sad. Grow the fuck up.
my "reggae a team" dosent really have anything to do with black slate either didnt really get that reference, and go ahead do your self a favor no man is an island has enough soul to overcome any d.brown 80's dreck, which coincidently Ill read for "a little bit more" any day of the week.
the idea that because Marley cut loads of commercialized crap that was more popular with American frat boys than with Jamaican reggae fans shouldn't lead anyone to think that "Bob Marley is not in anyone's top 5 or 10 reggae artists of all time". That's the backlash talking.
Oh, Lord.
Regarding my second posting here (made while sleep-drunk): I was actually attempting to express my dismay with my friend P33's classification of Marley out of The Pantheon. The "Right" was sarcastic; OF COURSE he's in most sane people's top lists. He's not the damn Worldwide Ambassador of Reggae for nothing. To read such a statement like mine at face value is a bit silly. In re-reading it, though, I suppose I could have been clearer, especially with the indeterminate transitional "but."
The purpose for the this thread was more to discuss backlash in general. I don't listen to music because folks tell me to, but to say that I'm not influenced by the recommendations, tastes and trends of the world around me would be lying. I've learned volumes about funk and soul music from the good people on this site, and I know enough to know what I like. But backlash and association still influence me, and I'm coming to grips with this. Either way, It's impossible for me to listen to Legend with a blank slate. I honestly don't know if anyone here can say that. I'm not saying that backlash is ever proper or constructive. I'm not arguing in favor of classist fools running shit. I had a personal realization and hoped that others would share theirs.
But I really don't buy any of this "I only inform myself" stuff. Pickwick merely stated his opinion.
And I never pegged it, but apparently Sugar Minott is underrated by some (???). Though my personal tastes rarely stray into dancehall, Black Roots is quite, quite good. That was the first LP I ever heard by Minott, and it's by default become the measuring stick for his work for me.
Since this is SoulStrut, after all, I'll be the one to throw out the theory espoused by some: if Bob weren't half-white, he wouldn't have been nearly as popular.
I DJed with a Jamaican a while back who occasionally speaks at universities about "color politics" as they relate to reggae. His examples of JA artists that have successfully crossed over include, first and foremost, Bob, but also Sean Paul (who is a mix of black, portuguese, chinese, etc.), Shaggy and recently, Collie Buddz (who is actually out of Bermuda). He also states that Elephant Man and Vybz Kartel have been the biggest bashment artists in JA for several years now (no disagreement from me on that), but they won't ever gain the same acceptance as other lighter-skinned artists.
I'll admit: I'd never even considered that, but it got me to thinking.
I would argue that Peter Tosh, a dark skinned man if there ever was, was a fairly successful crossover artist in Europe and the states (maybe not as big as Sean Paul/Shaggy). He got serious MTV airplay for "Johnny B Goode" and was released on the Stones label. I think most of these artists were successful at altering the style to appeal to American/European tastes. A trick Bob was the godfather of. BTW I'll ride for all his Island albums save Confrontation. One his greatest songs 'Zimbabwe' came very late in the game.
Since this is SoulStrut, after all, I'll be the one to throw out the theory espoused by some: if Bob weren't half-white, he wouldn't have been nearly as popular.
I DJed with a Jamaican a while back who occasionally speaks at universities about "color politics" as they relate to reggae. His examples of JA artists that have successfully crossed over include, first and foremost, Bob, but also Sean Paul (who is a mix of black, portuguese, chinese, etc.), Shaggy and recently, Collie Buddz (who is actually out of Bermuda). He also states that Elephant Man and Vybz Kartel have been the biggest bashment artists in JA for several years now (no disagreement from me on that), but they won't ever gain the same acceptance as other lighter-skinned artists.
I'll admit: I'd never even considered that, but it got me to thinking.
I think that race has something to do with it, but mostly its in their diction the popular artists mentioned are more understandable to world for the most part. Sean Paul being the exception though
Since this is SoulStrut, after all, I'll be the one to throw out the theory espoused by some: if Bob weren't half-white, he wouldn't have been nearly as popular.
I DJed with a Jamaican a while back who occasionally speaks at universities about "color politics" as they relate to reggae. His examples of JA artists that have successfully crossed over include, first and foremost, Bob, but also Sean Paul (who is a mix of black, portuguese, chinese, etc.), Shaggy and recently, Collie Buddz (who is actually out of Bermuda). He also states that Elephant Man and Vybz Kartel have been the biggest bashment artists in JA for several years now (no disagreement from me on that), but they won't ever gain the same acceptance as other lighter-skinned artists.
I'll admit: I'd never even considered that, but it got me to thinking.
I think that race has something to do with it, but mostly its in their diction the popular artists mentioned are more understandable to world for the most part. Sean Paul being the exception though
You're onto something--and I have to disagree with you in order to help you make your point!
I read an interview with Sean Paul a few years back in which he claimed to always make his hooks more understandable to foreigners. And to his credit, he does a very good job of that. I've also noticed that a lot of his songs almost have two hooks; the pre-chorus is just as catchy as the chorus itself. For example:
Pre-Chorus: We be burnin' not concernin' what nobody wanna say We be earnin' dollars turnin' 'cause we mind deh 'pon we pay* Some got gold and oil and diamonds, all we got is Mary J Legalize it, time to recognize it
Chorus: Just gimme the trees an mek we smoke it yo* It a mek we please so don't provoke it yo We don't need no speed, we nah go coke it yo Set we mind at ease we got to take it slow
*OK, so these parts are a little advanced for some, but you get the picture.
Since this is SoulStrut, after all, I'll be the one to throw out the theory espoused by some: if Bob weren't half-white, he wouldn't have been nearly as popular.
I DJed with a Jamaican a while back who occasionally speaks at universities about "color politics" as they relate to reggae. His examples of JA artists that have successfully crossed over include, first and foremost, Bob, but also Sean Paul (who is a mix of black, portuguese, chinese, etc.), Shaggy and recently, Collie Buddz (who is actually out of Bermuda). He also states that Elephant Man and Vybz Kartel have been the biggest bashment artists in JA for several years now (no disagreement from me on that), but they won't ever gain the same acceptance as other lighter-skinned artists.
I'll admit: I'd never even considered that, but it got me to thinking.
Dennis Brown 1. No Man Is An Island 2. Just Dennis 3. Joseph's Coat Of Many Colours 4. If I Follow My Heart 5. Superstar
I'd add Deep Down and Super Reggae and Soul Hits.
As for Bob, c'mon their is no debate.
Unfuckwittable and thats even getting closer towards his cornier stuff!
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
Hold up, let me get this straight...people are actually hating on Robert Nesta Marley? Are they completely out of their gourds??? Have they even bothered to listen to his music? For real...do they know he took a bullet for them? Possibly even worse? But again and again, have they even bothered to listen to his music that they are supposedly so pompously sick of?
Damn straight, reggae B-team[/b]. I said it and I'll stand on it like a rock. I don't HATE Marley - if I'm gonna own six albums by the man, he must be of SOME worth. NOW...Marley doesn't impact me the way Toots & the Maytals (***REGGAE A-TEAM***) or any of the Studio One and Trojan comps I own (***REGGAE A-TEAM***) or the Classics' "Mr. Fire Coal Man" (***YOU GET THE DRIFT, I WON'T WRITE THIS NO MO'***) or U-Roy's Version Galore or Dave & Ansell Collins' Double Barrel does.
Marley's okay. I just wouldn't put him way out in front of everybody else.
I honnestly don t get it. Besides Toots, your reggae A-team consist of compilations and artists who have one classic album ?
Comments
The line gets thin at some point (although most of what I listed up there is too midtempo to be called ska).
RECOGNIZE AND RETROSPECT.
Man, who knew that people would want to ban/ignore you for expressing an opinion about the relative tiers of excellence within the reggae canon. What is even more laughable is that I made clear that my reggae b-team comments in no way reflected hatred toward said artists, only less appreciation than others. Seems like people hear what they want to hear.
I have a copy of Wolf and Leopards for sale right now, if anyone is interested.
Just to set the record straight. I only mentioned LPs of artists (Scientist and LKJ) who primarily worked in the LP format.
JP, As for recommendations, I wouldn't presume to tell you what is worth listening to. From your dub mix and your chatter on this board, I know that you are deep on the subject. You can definitely take care of yourself.
Things that I have been enjoying recently:
The Skull- Black Slavery Days
Yabby You- Conquering Lion
Victor Scott- Yes I Will
Errol Dunkley- Black Cinderella
Gaylads- Message to My Girl
Bunny and Ricky- Freedom Fighter
Melodians- Jericho
I mean, that Bob Marley isn't a reggae great is up for discussion is abhorrible...
but...I'm totally shocked by the A-team and B-team lists that were compiled, and the subsequent comments, etc...or at least what some of you are feeling/not feeling...but, I don't claim to be a reggae know it all...although...I do have enough of an exposure to know that I think some of you have been smoking rock..
and johnny...don't take Superstar off the list! I love that album...."Out in The Rain" is a Frickin' monster for me...plus, I like their cover of Black Magic Woman...
and that b list is ur opinion and ur entitled to it but dennis brown and sugar minott? Scientist? not sure if he did any vocal performances. Last time I checked he was strictly production/mixing
Please listen to Dennis Brown - Wolf and Leopards or any digital sugar minott piece. African girl or ghettollogy.
9 out of 10 times this is how I feel.
I'm all for having your own musical cannon but try and fuck with early to soul rebels era marley.
On the other hand the whole "embarassed to like a band because of their fans" always makes me sad. Grow the fuck up.
my "reggae a team" dosent really have anything to do with black slate either didnt really get that reference, and go ahead do your self a favor no man is an island has enough soul to overcome any d.brown 80's dreck, which coincidently Ill read for "a little bit more" any day of the week.
Oh, Lord.
Regarding my second posting here (made while sleep-drunk): I was actually attempting to express my dismay with my friend P33's classification of Marley out of The Pantheon. The "Right" was sarcastic; OF COURSE he's in most sane people's top lists. He's not the damn Worldwide Ambassador of Reggae for nothing.
The purpose for the this thread was more to discuss backlash in general. I don't listen to music because folks tell me to, but to say that I'm not influenced by the recommendations, tastes and trends of the world around me would be lying. I've learned volumes about funk and soul music from the good people on this site, and I know enough to know what I like. But backlash and association still influence me, and I'm coming to grips with this. Either way, It's impossible for me to listen to Legend with a blank slate. I honestly don't know if anyone here can say that. I'm not saying that backlash is ever proper or constructive. I'm not arguing in favor of classist fools running shit. I had a personal realization and hoped that others would share theirs.
But I really don't buy any of this "I only inform myself" stuff. Pickwick merely stated his opinion.
And I never pegged it, but apparently Sugar Minott is underrated by some (???). Though my personal tastes rarely stray into dancehall, Black Roots is quite, quite good. That was the first LP I ever heard by Minott, and it's by default become the measuring stick for his work for me.
And while I think he's overrated, at no time did I say he was terrible.
I DJed with a Jamaican a while back who occasionally speaks at universities about "color politics" as they relate to reggae. His examples of JA artists that have successfully crossed over include, first and foremost, Bob, but also Sean Paul (who is a mix of black, portuguese, chinese, etc.), Shaggy and recently, Collie Buddz (who is actually out of Bermuda). He also states that Elephant Man and Vybz Kartel have been the biggest bashment artists in JA for several years now (no disagreement from me on that), but they won't ever gain the same acceptance as other lighter-skinned artists.
I'll admit: I'd never even considered that, but it got me to thinking.
I think that race has something to do with it, but mostly its in their diction the popular artists mentioned are more understandable to world for the most part.
Sean Paul being the exception though
You're onto something--and I have to disagree with you in order to help you make your point!
I read an interview with Sean Paul a few years back in which he claimed to always make his hooks more understandable to foreigners. And to his credit, he does a very good job of that. I've also noticed that a lot of his songs almost have two hooks; the pre-chorus is just as catchy as the chorus itself. For example:
Pre-Chorus:
We be burnin' not concernin' what nobody wanna say
We be earnin' dollars turnin' 'cause we mind deh 'pon we pay*
Some got gold and oil and diamonds, all we got is Mary J
Legalize it, time to recognize it
Chorus:
Just gimme the trees an mek we smoke it yo*
It a mek we please so don't provoke it yo
We don't need no speed, we nah go coke it yo
Set we mind at ease we got to take it slow
*OK, so these parts are a little advanced for some, but you get the picture.
You forgot Maxi Priest!
why?
why?
and
why?
I'd add Deep Down and Super Reggae and Soul Hits.
As for Bob, c'mon their is no debate.
Unfuckwittable and thats even getting closer towards his cornier stuff!
I honnestly don t get it. Besides Toots, your reggae A-team consist of compilations and artists who have one classic album ?
That`s a strange league !