Death by association / backlash is a hurting thing

luckluck 4,077 Posts
edited November 2007 in Strut Central
Jesus Christ must have had dreadlocks. Simon Peter must have been a hipster. I draw these suppositions from the modern-day parable of The Tripartite Denial Of Sweet Rasta Jesus, or, The Least-Cool Musician Ever.I first became aware of the crushing, soul-sucking power of The Wrong Fans when The Smoking Popes took a religious detour, but the phenomenon really socked me in the face when I hit art school. Groups or bands I'd innocently appreciated within the vacuum of high school and my earlier college experience (Marley, Weezer, U2, R.E.M.) were quickly seen as verboten. The effect thickened when I graduated and plugged into Culture.Backlash, I suppose, is when the back-row crowd sneaks out to watch tomorrow's show later that night. Popular music acts rarely age toward artistic relevance, and when coupled with an aging fan base and overmarketing, a was-band can take on a ghastly, co-opted Eaglesstank. Racial concerns only make the situation worse. As it directly relates to this principle, I get the sense that most socially-aware white folks within five years of me (either way) cannot seriously listen to Marley or The Wailers or Maybe All Reggae Ever. They don't want to be privy to Outside Devil Hands. I understood this; I felt like a dirty colonialist, too. Especially at outdoor music festivals when aging, token Johnny Bark-types do the hippie shuffle and sing "One Love" at the top of their lungs. But the worst effect of backlash is when the entire accomplishments of a once-lauded creative entity are called into question and dismissed with a white-belted backhand. Was I ever so young to listen to this sub-par kiddie stuff? DONE that. Like the hipster version of the fountain Mr. DeLeon never found.So for years, my refrain was the same regarding All Things Marley: I know not this man. This feat is especially hard to pull off when you are as white as a snowbound Swede and carry 2.5 feet of locks behind your head, let me tell you.But, look: I am listening again - right now - to Bob Marley's "Nice Time" (JAD version) and damn: this is a brilliant song. I cannot escape this verity. I do not care how many white folks have corrupted it by listening to it or how many underwear commercials will abuse it in the future. Irrespective of all these base, earthly, Western trappings, I - fuck it - like this song. The cock rooster isn't crowing for me anymore.Is backlash real? Is it buttressed to the rest of the Church of Cool, or does it float above it like a holy, chameleoned ceiling? Is it still fine to publicly admire Muhammad - ah - Desmond Dekker?Answer and share, please.
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  • Well, I try not to let backlash affect my taste...put Bob Marley in the proper perspective (on the reggae B-team instead of in the top rank) and he sounds good all of a sudden. I DL'ed "Lively Up Yourself" from iTunes and damn if those sneaky guitar fills don't make the whole song.



    On the other hand...I burned out on Jimi Hendrix[/b] for the longest time after hearing several blues bands (yes, blues bands) butcher his songs.

  • luckluck 4,077 Posts
    Right - I don't think Marley's in anyone's top 5 or 10 reggae artists of all time. But sometimes a man is better than the aura his lowbrow advocates or highbrow detractors ascribe to him, is all I'm saying.

    I've purposefully kept myself away from Hendrix (esp. the bootlegs) because I'd like to hear little bits of new material when I want to.


  • I've purposefully kept myself away from Hendrix (esp. the bootlegs) because I'd like to hear little bits of new material when I want to.

    Lately, I've heard fans of 1960's garage ride for those "early years" albums on Trip, Shout, and other similar labels...because most of those were recorded around '66 or so (before he got famous), they do have a kind of Nuggets/Pebbles quality about them. And they do. But they still sound like unfinished, unfocused jam sessions to me.

  • All Things Marley

    Ah, the days when the Bob Marley boxset came out and everyone and their mother had a copy. Those who caught on late were scoffed at, especially when they would proudly produce their Legend cd, desiring acceptance, lamenting the box set being out of print and sold out. "I only listen to the first cd, that's the real Bob" "I only listen to the fourth cd on the box set, that's when Bob was at his peak." "I made a mix of my favorite songs from the four different cd's." Acoustic "Iron Lion Zion" coming out of cheap cd radios while smoking shwag in some abandoned house or roof top. Then came the Bob Marley t-shirts, and towles, and stickers for the back of your car. Bob Marley leather pendants, bracelets, the red, gold, and green. The backlash was sudden and fierce, "You're still listening to Bob, put on this Abbysinians cd, that's real rasta." "Early Bob is descent but check out the Ethiopians, Bob totally ripped them off." Further more, all of a sudden Bob was the hero of every hemp necklace wearing, patchouli smelling, courdory patch overall sporting motherfucker. Then all reggae lost its luster, death by association. Some pretend elitests held on "Im so over Bob, but Arkology is still my shit." I left that shit behind. Later on, I thought I had made my peace with Bob and reggae, I still lsitened quite a lot, but mostly because it was removed from its hippy context and I just listened, man. Recently I went to St. John in USVI, where a lot of the people working the restaurants and shops are Martha's Vineyard restaurant workers, who go to the island when the summer is over and the winter season begins. Every bar I walked into with my wife was pumping Bob on the stereo. "No Woman No Cry" and all that shit. Fruckin' "Redemption Song." It was so cliche being on a tropical island watching the sun set over the ocean with a painkiller in one hand and Bob coming out the speakers. All the backlash came out and listening to Bob was like taking a drill bit in the ear canal. I asked a bar tender if he could play anything else and got, "I think there's a Toots cd in the changer, but we're in the islands, enjoy some Bob." Grrr. So we get home and one night I'm sitting smoking weed, itunes on shuffle. I come out of my mental cocoon for a second and realize "stir it up" is playing. It was the instrumental part in the middle of the song with no singing, it was dope, I was on dope. It motivated me to play the "Catch a Fire" record, and along with "400 Years" and "Midnight Ravers" those are some really good songs. I've made my peace with Bob, and have come to the conclusion that he will be killed by association again and will seem repulsive, but just like that I'll get high and realize some songs are truely descent, and then I'll realize I'm high.
    But yeah, to answer your question death by association is real and backlash can be sudden and unforgiving. Yet who cares, enjoy things on your own terms and know that there is nothing cooler than self confidence. All you people who don't like Desmond Decker's music can eat my "welcome to jamaica have a nice day."

  • i could never really understand forming one's opinions of art based on what the opinions of others seem to be. but i guess it's a complex thing. I mean, knowing the opinions of people I trust and empathize with might lead me to check out certain things or avoid others, but in the end i'm forming my own opinion.

    put Bob Marley in the proper perspective (on the reggae B-team instead of in the top rank)

    plaese to list reggae A-team for us reggae little dudes who earnestly want to learn more

  • DrWuDrWu 4,021 Posts
    This kind of reasoning drives me nuts. Who cares what anyone else's opinion of Bob Marley's music is? Who cares if smelly tree huggers like it? That's their issue not mine. Great music is great music. Bob Marley is still my favorite reggae artist of all time. Why? simply put the dude is one of the greatest songwriters of all time, anywhere. Like Dylan, he had/has the unique ability to write great love songs and important quotidian political commentary. I have listened to Catch A Fire hundreds of times. I still get that incredible sense of joy that I did when I first heard it 25 years ago. He was that good.

    I am all for people appreciating the depth and breadth of Jamaican music (per capita the greatest amount of good music ever produced) but don't throw Bob out with the bathwater.

    BTW I was listening to Lee Perry, Slim Smith, The Skatalites, Alton Ellis and Max Romeo when most of you were learning how to spell. So please don't start with the Marley ain't shit routine. It is beyond ignorant.

  • the idea that because Marley cut loads of commercialized crap that was more popular with American frat boys than with Jamaican reggae fans shouldn't lead anyone to think that "Bob Marley is not in anyone's top 5 or 10 reggae artists of all time". That's the backlash talking.

    And, dude - you're a white guy with dreads? Did I read that right?

  • and... reggae b-team?

  • DrWuDrWu 4,021 Posts
    Reggae B-Team

    Sugar Minott
    Dennis Brown
    Sister Carroll
    Twinkle Brothers
    LKJ
    Viceroys
    Scientist

  • Wow, Dennis Brown and Sugar Minott on the b-team?

    Not much of a reggae fan, eh?

  • DrWuDrWu 4,021 Posts
    Wow, Dennis Brown and Sugar Minott on the b-team?

    Not much of a reggae fan, eh?

    Hey, these guys are on the 'B-team, that's like being second team all-NBA. They make some nice contributions but are inconsistent or had short periods of goodness. This ain't no Black Slate or nothing.

  • nzshadownzshadow 5,526 Posts
    LKJ?

    dude.

  • Reggae B-Team

    Sugar Minott
    Dennis Brown
    Scientist


    BAN.

  • Wow, Dennis Brown and Sugar Minott on the b-team?

    Not much of a reggae fan, eh?

    Hey, these guys are on the 'B-team, that's like being second team all-NBA. They make some nice contributions but are inconsistent or had short periods of goodness. This ain't no Black Slate or nothing.

    !!!

    Dude.

    Sugar Minott = one of the most prolific and CONSISTENT singers in reggae. Pick up any of his records from the 70s through the mid 80s and you will find CLASSICS.

    Dennis Brown is by FAR one of the most loved singers of reggae and is responsible for numerous classics that get played or covered to this day.





    I think we need to add Reggae to the list of stuff strutters are not qualified to speak on...

  • BrianBrian 7,618 Posts
    memory associations kinda ruin a lot of individual songs for me but if i liked the artist, it ain't like it's going to completely ruin their entire catalog.

    legend is a great example for me. between all white boy college students, hawaiians who think they're jamaican, and everyone else who wants to be hawaiian in hawaii, legend is like completely and totally played out for me.

    i guess what i'm trying to say is, carpetbaggeurs tend to latch onto whatever they are obsessing over at that point in time, completely play it out and suck all the life out of it, and leave me with bad memories.

  • DrWuDrWu 4,021 Posts
    Truly, I don't get the Dennis Brown thing. To me he's the Gordon Lightfoot of reggae. I can get with 'The Foundation' and a few other things but I stop there. I like Lightfoots 'Sundown' and 'Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald' but not much else.

    Scientist has one great record (Vampires) and assorted other mediocre LPs with 1 or 2 tracks of interest after that.

    Sugar will always get love for 'Inna Dance Hall Style' but I haven't heard much else worth keeping. Post some tracks if you think he is A-Team ready.

    LKJ? Linton Kwesi Johnson. I like maybe one of his records. Thank God he didn't keep making more records and repeating his shit. Some may not count him as reggae since he is more of poet.

  • DrWuDrWu 4,021 Posts
    Wow, Dennis Brown and Sugar Minott on the b-team?

    Not much of a reggae fan, eh?

    Hey, these guys are on the 'B-team, that's like being second team all-NBA. They make some nice contributions but are inconsistent or had short periods of goodness. This ain't no Black Slate or nothing.

    !!!

    Dude.

    Sugar Minott = one of the most prolific and CONSISTENT singers in reggae. Pick up any of his records from the 70s through the mid 80s and you will find CLASSICS.

    Dennis Brown is by FAR one of the most loved singers of reggae and is responsible for numerous classics that get played or covered to this day.





    I think we need to add Reggae to the list of stuff strutters are not qualified to speak on...

    I am well aware of DB's rep in JA but I just don't hear it. Don't act like DB didn't put out a ton of garbage in the 80s either.

    B/W

    A lot of people think Patti Smith is incredible. She's going into the Hall of Fame this year. I just don't get her either.

    Let me reiterate that this is the b-team not the pine riders. So don't get your panties in a bunch

  • Dude I doubt you are familiar enough with the catalogs of either artist to really speak on it.

    LKJ is spoken word reggae, pretty much indicates where you're coming from. Shit doesn't even belong in the same discussion as Brown or Minott.

    I can recommend five albums for you by each artist, how's that. Seek them out.

    In no particular order

    Dennis Brown
    1. No Man Is An Island
    2. Just Dennis
    3. Joseph's Coat Of Many Colours
    4. If I Follow My Heart
    5. Superstar


    Sugar Minott
    1. African Girl
    2. Ryddim
    3. Herbsman Hustling
    4. Black Roots ("Hard Time Pressure"!)
    5. Sufferer's Choice



    And that is not even to mention that reggae is really a 7" format, this is some real layman shit

  • nzshadownzshadow 5,526 Posts


    LKJ? Linton Kwesi Johnson. I like maybe one of his records. Thank God he didn't keep making more records and repeating his shit. Some may not count him as reggae since he is more of poet.

    you make me cry on the inside.

  • magneticmagnetic 2,678 Posts


    plaese to list reggae A-team for us reggae little dudes who earnestly want to learn more

  • DrWuDrWu 4,021 Posts
    Dude I doubt you are familiar enough with the catalogs of either artist to really speak on it.

    LKJ is spoken word reggae, pretty much indicates where you're coming from. Shit doesn't even belong in the same discussion as Brown or Minott.

    I can recommend five albums for you by each artist, how's that. Seek them out.

    In no particular order

    Dennis Brown
    1. No Man Is An Island
    2. Just Dennis
    3. Joseph's Coat Of Many Colours
    4. If I Follow My Heart
    5. Superstar


    Sugar Minott
    1. African Girl
    2. Ryddim
    3. Herbsman Hustling
    4. Black Roots ("Hard Time Pressure"!)
    5. Sufferer's Choice



    And that is not even to mention that reggae is really a 7" format, this is some real layman shit



    Listened to most of them already (in the 80s). I'll say it one more time so you can get it. These guys are 2nd tier for me. Doesn't mean they suck but I much more inclined to listen to others than them. Please to stop with your condescension about reggae knowledge as I have been at it far longer than yourself.

  • Maybe you should revisit them. I'm not the king or anything, just noting that you sound like a fool. Maybe you can illuminate novices like me as to who I should be listening to.

    Writing off Dennis Brown because he made some weak albums in the 80s (and here we go with the whole "albums" thing again, ROCKIST) is like saying that James Brown is overrated because he made "Living In America".

  • Dennis Brown
    1. No Man Is An Island
    2. Just Dennis
    3. Joseph's Coat Of Many Colours
    4. If I Follow My Heart
    5. Superstar


    And that list, while excellent, doesn't even include Wolf and Leopards, which alone should preclude him from anyone's B-Team.

    And as far as "making crappy albums in the 80s," he dropped Revolution in 1985.

    Then again, aren't you the dude who claims to shut dung di clurb with "No Woman, No Cry"--the FUGEES version?

  • Dennis Brown
    1. No Man Is An Island
    2. Just Dennis
    3. Joseph's Coat Of Many Colours
    4. If I Follow My Heart
    5. Superstar


    And that list, while excellent, doesn't even include Wolf and Leopards, which alone should preclude him from anyone's B-Team.

    I knew I was forgetting something. Funny I just got a minty original in too. Replace "Superstar" with that.

  • Such a killer album!

  • and... reggae b-team?

    Damn straight, reggae B-team[/b]. I said it and I'll stand on it like a rock. I don't HATE Marley - if I'm gonna own six albums by the man, he must be of SOME worth. NOW...Marley doesn't impact me the way Toots & the Maytals (***REGGAE A-TEAM***) or any of the Studio One and Trojan comps I own (***REGGAE A-TEAM***) or the Classics' "Mr. Fire Coal Man" (***YOU GET THE DRIFT, I WON'T WRITE THIS NO MO'***) or U-Roy's Version Galore or Dave & Ansell Collins' Double Barrel does.

    Marley's okay. I just wouldn't put him way out in front of everybody else.

  • magneticmagnetic 2,678 Posts

    Then again, aren't you the dude who claims to shut dung di clurb with "No Woman, No Cry"--the FUGEES version?

  • magneticmagnetic 2,678 Posts
    and... reggae b-team?

    Damn straight, reggae B-team[/b]. I said it and I'll stand on it like a rock. I don't HATE Marley - if I'm gonna own six albums by the man, he must be of SOME worth. NOW...Marley doesn't impact me the way Toots & the Maytals (***REGGAE A-TEAM***) or any of the Studio One and Trojan comps I own (***REGGAE A-TEAM***) or the Classics' "Mr. Fire Coal Man" (***YOU GET THE DRIFT, I WON'T WRITE THIS NO MO'***) or U-Roy's Version Galore or Dave & Ansell Collins' Double Barrel does.

    Marley's okay. I just wouldn't put him way out in front of everybody else.

    You seem to be confusing ska & rock steady with REGGAE!!!

  • bassiebassie 11,710 Posts
    Reggae B-Team

    Sugar Minott
    Dennis Brown
    Sister Carroll
    Twinkle Brothers
    LKJ
    Viceroys
    Scientist

    It's Sister Carol.

    Unfuckingbelievable.

    This is the closest I have ever come to putting someone on ignore.

  • HarveyCanalHarveyCanal "a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
    I don't want to wait in vain for your love...

    C'mon y'all, sing along. I know you know the words.

    Recognizing that Bob Marley isn't the end-all, be-all of reggae = sensibly essential.

    Shooting down Bob Marley as some sort of lesser reggae superstar = the overreaching brainfart of a hipster who thinks he's too hip to actually be a hipster.

    Quit friggin trying so hard and as I already suggested, sing-the-fuck-along...

    While you point the finger, someone else is judging you...
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