This is not just about dog-fighting, it is about a man who beat, electrocuted, drowned and hung dogs that did not perform to his liking.
How is this at all similar to spousal abuse?
Imagine the outcry if he electrocuted, drowned, and hung his wife. I'm sure it would eclipse all this.
It is not. I am saying it is more than a dog-fighting issue.
I did not bring up the spousal abuse comparison, I responded to it later in my post though.
I know - we agree. It's PC liberals like Oliver Wang that are trying to derive something else out of this.
I was going to make a post saying essentially the same thing. Specifically, I was wondering what the supposedly much greater transgressions that the public has been willing to look past that Oliver referred to were... because I am struggling to identify them.
That said, I can't help but read some of the glee people are taking in seeing Vick go down as being racial. A lot of white folks had it in for dude before any of this ever surfaced.
watching two adults slug it out in the boxing ring creates the same kind of attraction as watching a bunch of dogs bite it out. The agency of the participants may not be equal but I don't think it's a stretch to compare the two.
This is absolutely, patently ridiculous. The words of a sensitive girly man, nestled securely in the bosom of liberal California, offended by in-your-face play, disturbed even by heavily padded athletes tackling each other on the gridiron.
Seriously though, boxing is a sport; one that requires huge amounts of skill and endurance. There's really no comparison. It is ABSOLUTELY a stretch.
This is not just about dog-fighting, it is about a man who beat, electrocuted, drowned and hung dogs that did not perform to his liking.
How is this at all similar to spousal abuse?
Imagine the outcry if he electrocuted, drowned, and hung his wife. I'm sure it would eclipse all this.
It is not. I am saying it is more than a dog-fighting issue.
I did not bring up the spousal abuse comparison, I responded to it later in my post though.
I know - we agree. It's PC liberals like Oliver Wang that are trying to derive something else out of this.
I was going to make a post saying essentially the same thing. Specifically, I was wondering what the supposedly much greater transgressions that the public has been willing to look past that Oliver referred to were... because I am struggling to identify them.
That said, I can't help but read some of the glee people are taking in seeing Vick go down as being racial. A lot of white folks had it in for dude before any of this ever surfaced.
most people i hear are bringing up Warren Moon who in '95 had to deal with the domestic abuse charge, but still continued to play.
i have not been paying much attention to the Vick trial, but my understanding was that he was bankrolling the operations more than actually being a part of the day-to-day cruelty shit.
not that it really matters though in the end....both types of shit are pretty disparaging to see unfold by 'grown men'
In korea they used to beat the dog right before killing it to soften the meat, but thats out now. I suppose they do the dogs now like they do all the other animals people eat. I have to admit, I felt more uncomfortable with the whole thing than I thought I would.
In Thailand I ate in a resturant with fighting cocks in cages outside next to the tables. Those are some gnarly looking birds. I suppose people don't care as much about birds because most birds are pretty stupid. Dogs are smart and have personality though.
I've never heard about this Vick person until the dog fighting news. I've avoided reading about it because it makes me sad. But I heard these radio guys talking about somebody (i didn't listen long enough to figure out who they were talking about) having sex while a dog was nailed to a board. Like some weird animal torture fetish. disgusting.
I was going to make a post saying essentially the same thing. Specifically, I was wondering what the supposedly much greater transgressions that the public has been willing to look past that Oliver referred to were... because I am struggling to identify them.
I should add that the Salon article, pointing to the Radar survey, speaks to the double standard from the public's perception that I'm talking about, overly broad as it may be.
I was going to make a post saying essentially the same thing. Specifically, I was wondering what the supposedly much greater transgressions that the public has been willing to look past that Oliver referred to were... because I am struggling to identify them.
I should add that the Salon article, pointing to the Radar survey, speaks to the double standard from the public's perception that I'm talking about, overly broad as it may be.
Dude, you are not seriously suggesting that Jason Kidd's transgressions compare to Michael Vick's, are you?
im not very enlightened to the world of dog fighting besides what ive read and seen but which culture(s) think dog fights are okay? i really have no idea and am curious.
I can tell you that in South Carolina, dog fighting(pits mostly) and cockfighting in pretty damn common. I hate the shit..I couldnt even BEGIN to count how many dogfigters I have met/known..not to even mention pit breeders-strictly for fighting, (thats another one hundred people probably right there alone)..as well as some cockfighters..but they are usually older redneck dudes. All that shit is really bad down here and I cannot fucking stand it.
I think our society tends to go nuts when it comes to dog cruelty but practically don't bat an eye at a lot of other shit that happens to, you know, people.
Well this is just some demented and sick shit. Dogs can't defend themselves.
I have found the hew and cry about dog fighting way over the top. It feels like the media is trying too hard to take this seriously, lest they look like Rey. So, suddenly, this is the worst crime ever committed, and the myriad episodes of spousal abuse in the NFL become truly blase.
I also think there IS a cultural/racial element at work, where many people don't understand a culture that condones dog fighting. Rather than even ATTEMPTING to understand where that behavior may come from, there is a rush to condemn and villify.
This is not just about dog-fighting, it is about a man who beat, electrocuted, drowned and hung dogs that did not perform to his liking. What would be an appropriate reaction that you would not deem to be over the top?
What do you think is the racial element? Is there a race that fights dogs MORE than another and is prone to cruelty to animals? And unless you are speaking about violent macho culture, then I am not sure which culture you are refering to either. Dog fighting happens all over the world - from Japan to Russia, Afghanistan to England.
I understand why violence against humans is brought up, namely domestic abuse; perhaps the imbalance in media attention and public outcry has more to do with the lack of importance and silent acceptance of violence against women and children within the home rather than more importance put on dog cruelty. And as far as the amount of attention paid to this (operating on the 'more media attention = more important' model), it is quite possible that victims of violence in the home and those of sexual assault, etc. do not want to go through the public ordeal of laying charges, a trial, etc. - so it stays out of police stations and courts to avoid the media glare and prolonging the nightmare.
Bassie,
I can respect all of the above. You are really on top of your shit.
Bassie or whoever said that "boxers agree to fight" hit the nail on the head. O-dubs, boxing and cockfighting are way different. Maybe cockfighting and gang wars....maybe.
Anyway, there's nothing happening in the summer, besides baseball, so ofcourse they're gonna squeeze whatever they can outta this story. Sensationalized or not, most citizens and sports fan will agree, that they were shocked when they heard a young superstar athlete fighting and killing dogs. The face of Nike's football ads, doing this kinda shit.
It's like when Bill Clinton got a BJ. It ain't that important news, but it catches everyone attention, because they're extremely famous people. EVERYONE and their momma will remember Kobe's sexual assault case or OJ Simpson's murder of two people, while Abu Gharib prison torture or a normal civilian's story of domestic violence will be forgotten with time.
I can't help but be disgusted by Vick's actions, but I have to wonder if Society's not getting too puritanical. Banned for life? I don't know. Just saw Tyrone Wheatley on TV recently & he said he saw dog fights in his hood when he was a kid. Maybe this is part of the culture that Vick comes from. I think its awful, but he doesn't need to be banned for life. He should do his time & come back. He's a football player, not a saint. I wouldn't want to break bread with a guy who would kill a dog, but I'd sure as hell want him playing defence for me. Have any of you watched a football game lately? You gotta beat the fuck out of another man to win a game. If you don't measure up, you get cut. Damn straight you're gonna have a casual disregard towards the suffering of others.
I can't help but be disgusted by Vick's actions, but I have to wonder if Society's not getting too puritanical. Banned for life? I don't know. Just saw Tyrone Wheatley on TV recently & he said he saw dog fights in his hood when he was a kid. Maybe this is part of the culture that Vick comes from. I think its awful, but he doesn't need to be banned for life. He should do his time & come back. He's a football player, not a saint. I wouldn't want to break bread with a guy who would kill a dog, but I'd sure as hell want him playing defence for me. Have any of you watched a football game lately? You gotta beat the fuck out of another man to win a game. If you don't measure up, you get cut. Damn straight you're gonna have a casual disregard towards the suffering of others.
Uh, yes he does need to be banned for life. It sends out a loud and clear message, "Dog fighting is NOT cool and shouldn't be a part of anyone's culture." Also, that last line although true, is completely irrelevant.
Just saw Tyrone Wheatley on TV recently & he said he saw dog fights in his hood when he was a kid.
OH NOW IT IS A CULTURAL IDIOSYNCRASY.
OH THOSE BLACK FOLKS FROM THE GHETTO THEY DON'T KNOW NO BETTER THAN TO ELECTROCUTE DOGS. IT'S PART OF THEIR CULTURE.
Don't go putting words in my mouth, pal. I'm saying that these things can't be altogether uncommon in the USA. There must be a dog fight happening somewhere in America right now. And that shouldn't surprise anyone.
Just saw Tyrone Wheatley on TV recently & he said he saw dog fights in his hood when he was a kid.
OH NOW IT IS A CULTURAL IDIOSYNCRASY.
OH THOSE BLACK FOLKS FROM THE GHETTO THEY DON'T KNOW NO BETTER THAN TO ELECTROCUTE DOGS. IT'S PART OF THEIR CULTURE.
Don't go putting words in my mouth, pal. I'm saying that these things can't be altogether uncommon in the USA. There must be a dog fight happening somewhere in America right now. And that shouldn't surprise anyone.
No, I'm not putting anything in your mouth - your post was to say that we should go easy on Vick because he might've grown up around dogfighting.
I can't help but be disgusted by Vick's actions, but I have to wonder if Society's not getting too puritanical. Banned for life? I don't know.
1. He's not "banned for life" from anything--where are dudes getting that one from?
2. Have any of you dudes shaking your heads and suggesting that it might be overly punitive actually followed the case? This is not just about him sponsoring dogfighting in absentia--this is about him personally electrocuting, drowning and mauling dogs to death.
Just saw Tyrone Wheatley on TV recently & he said he saw dog fights in his hood when he was a kid.
OH NOW IT IS A CULTURAL IDIOSYNCRASY.
OH THOSE BLACK FOLKS FROM THE GHETTO THEY DON'T KNOW NO BETTER THAN TO ELECTROCUTE DOGS. IT'S PART OF THEIR CULTURE.
Don't go putting words in my mouth, pal. I'm saying that these things can't be altogether uncommon in the USA. There must be a dog fight happening somewhere in America right now. And that shouldn't surprise anyone.
No, I'm not putting anything in your mouth - your post was to say that we should go easy on Vick because he might've grown up around dogfighting.
I'm saying that a professional athlete is not a paragon of virtue & he doesn't have to be. His world is dog eat dog. And I'd say that what he's done is awful, but he didn't kill his wife or a person. And what he's involved with has to be widespread. Mike Vick might be the poster child for dog fights now, but I'm sure that it has deep roots all over the states. I'd even bet that he's not the only NFL'er that's involved in this, if he ever names names. Furthermore, this guy is not paid to be a gentleman. He's paid to go out & win. And these guys do this at any cost. Professional sports is a culture in & of itself. And being a part of it doesn't work towards building up many healthy traits or habits. Go to one training camp & tell me if you don't come out of there a little fucked in the head. Cause you're treated like meat & pushed to be as rough & vicious as you can get.
Just saw Tyrone Wheatley on TV recently & he said he saw dog fights in his hood when he was a kid.
OH NOW IT IS A CULTURAL IDIOSYNCRASY.
OH THOSE BLACK FOLKS FROM THE GHETTO THEY DON'T KNOW NO BETTER THAN TO ELECTROCUTE DOGS. IT'S PART OF THEIR CULTURE.
Don't go putting words in my mouth, pal. I'm saying that these things can't be altogether uncommon in the USA. There must be a dog fight happening somewhere in America right now. And that shouldn't surprise anyone.
No, I'm not putting anything in your mouth - your post was to say that we should go easy on Vick because he might've grown up around dogfighting.
I'm saying that a professional athlete is not a paragon of virtue & he doesn't have to be. His world is dog eat dog. And I'd say that what he's done is awful, but he didn't kill his wife or a person. And what he's involved with has to be widespread. Mike Vick might be the poster child for dog fights now, but I'm sure that it has deep roots all over the states. I'd even bet that he's not the only NFL'er that's involved in this, if he ever names names. Furthermore, this guy is not paid to be a gentleman. He's paid to go out & win. And these guys do this at any cost. Professional sports is a culture in & of itself. And being a part of it doesn't work towards building up many healthy traits or habits. Go to one training camp & tell me if you don't come out of there a little fucked in the head. Cause you're treated like meat & pushed to be as rough & vicious as you can get.
Dude, you're talking like his "crime" was churlishly refusing to sign an autograph or some schitt.
Again, have you followed the case? Do you know what's really at issue here?
Hey JP, this is a reality check for you! This is a FREE country! It don't matter if you fight dogs, cocks, go tackle someone, or hit someone with gloves. It's all the same violence and shouldn't be accepted under any circumstance. If you take it a step further, you can say that rap battles are just as destructive because it can lead to uncontrolled and unanticipated violence! (e.g. "Oh you mad cuz i'm stylin' on you!")
Comments
I know - we agree. It's PC liberals like Oliver Wang
Ummmm....he's dead.
I guess my little attempt at humor failed.....my bad
Actually....I have a lunch bet that he won't.....but I have to admit it's not looking good and I'll have to fly to Atlanta to pay off the bet.
calaveras county gangster livin isnt easy potna... good to see youre holding it down.
I was going to make a post saying essentially the same thing. Specifically, I was wondering what the supposedly much greater transgressions that the public has been willing to look past that Oliver referred to were... because I am struggling to identify them.
That said, I can't help but read some of the glee people are taking in seeing Vick go down as being racial. A lot of white folks had it in for dude before any of this ever surfaced.
To the death?
This is absolutely, patently ridiculous. The words of a sensitive girly man, nestled securely in the bosom of liberal California, offended by in-your-face play, disturbed even by heavily padded athletes tackling each other on the gridiron.
Seriously though, boxing is a sport; one that requires huge amounts of skill and endurance. There's really no comparison. It is ABSOLUTELY a stretch.
most people i hear are bringing up Warren Moon who in '95 had to deal with the domestic abuse charge, but still continued to play.
i have not been paying much attention to the Vick trial, but my understanding was that he was bankrolling the operations more than actually being a part of the day-to-day cruelty shit.
not that it really matters though in the end....both types of shit are pretty disparaging to see unfold by 'grown men'
In korea they used to beat the dog right before killing it to soften the meat, but thats out now. I suppose they do the dogs now like they do all the other animals people eat. I have to admit, I felt more uncomfortable with the whole thing than I thought I would.
In Thailand I ate in a resturant with fighting cocks in cages outside next to the tables. Those are some gnarly looking birds. I suppose people don't care as much about birds because most birds are pretty stupid. Dogs are smart and have personality though.
I've never heard about this Vick person until the dog fighting news. I've avoided reading about it because it makes me sad. But I heard these radio guys talking about somebody (i didn't listen long enough to figure out who they were talking about) having sex while a dog was nailed to a board. Like some weird animal torture fetish. disgusting.
Yep. I actually lived next to a dog farm. not cool.
Fuckwit...
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/orl-bianchi0507aug05,0,3073248.column
http://www.salon.com/mwt/broadsheet/2007/08/17/vick/index.html
http://espn.go.com/nba/news/2001/0118/1025500.html
I should add that the Salon article, pointing to the Radar survey, speaks to the double standard from the public's perception that I'm talking about, overly broad as it may be.
Dude, you are not seriously suggesting that Jason Kidd's transgressions compare to Michael Vick's, are you?
I can tell you that in South Carolina, dog fighting(pits mostly) and cockfighting in pretty damn common. I hate the shit..I couldnt even BEGIN to count how many dogfigters I have met/known..not to even mention pit breeders-strictly for fighting, (thats another one hundred people probably right there alone)..as well as some cockfighters..but they are usually older redneck dudes. All that shit is really bad down here and I cannot fucking stand it.
Well this is just some demented and sick shit. Dogs can't defend themselves.
Bassie,
I can respect all of the above. You are really on top of your shit.
Anyway, there's nothing happening in the summer, besides baseball, so ofcourse they're gonna squeeze whatever they can outta this story. Sensationalized or not, most citizens and sports fan will agree, that they were shocked when they heard a young superstar athlete fighting and killing dogs. The face of Nike's football ads, doing this kinda shit.
It's like when Bill Clinton got a BJ. It ain't that important news, but it catches everyone attention, because they're extremely famous people. EVERYONE and their momma will remember Kobe's sexual assault case or OJ Simpson's murder of two people, while Abu Gharib prison torture or a normal civilian's story of domestic violence will be forgotten with time.
OH NOW IT IS A CULTURAL IDIOSYNCRASY.
OH THOSE BLACK FOLKS FROM THE GHETTO THEY DON'T KNOW NO BETTER THAN TO ELECTROCUTE DOGS. IT'S PART OF THEIR CULTURE.
Uh, yes he does need to be banned for life. It sends out a loud and clear message, "Dog fighting is NOT cool and shouldn't be a part of anyone's culture." Also, that last line although true, is completely irrelevant.
Don't go putting words in my mouth, pal. I'm saying that these things can't be altogether uncommon in the USA. There must be a dog fight happening somewhere in America right now. And that shouldn't surprise anyone.
No, I'm not putting anything in your mouth - your post was to say that we should go easy on Vick because he might've grown up around dogfighting.
1. He's not "banned for life" from anything--where are dudes getting that one from?
2. Have any of you dudes shaking your heads and suggesting that it might be overly punitive actually followed the case? This is not just about him sponsoring dogfighting in absentia--this is about him personally electrocuting, drowning and mauling dogs to death.
I'm saying that a professional athlete is not a paragon of virtue & he doesn't have to be. His world is dog eat dog. And I'd say that what he's done is awful, but he didn't kill his wife or a person. And what he's involved with has to be widespread. Mike Vick might be the poster child for dog fights now, but I'm sure that it has deep roots all over the states. I'd even bet that he's not the only NFL'er that's involved in this, if he ever names names. Furthermore, this guy is not paid to be a gentleman. He's paid to go out & win. And these guys do this at any cost. Professional sports is a culture in & of itself. And being a part of it doesn't work towards building up many healthy traits or habits. Go to one training camp & tell me if you don't come out of there a little fucked in the head. Cause you're treated like meat & pushed to be as rough & vicious as you can get.
Dude, you're talking like his "crime" was churlishly refusing to sign an autograph or some schitt.
Again, have you followed the case? Do you know what's really at issue here?
Everyone, plaese