Sicko
Fatback
6,746 Posts
Dear Bassie,Do you have room for a family of three? 
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Fatback
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Let's get that out of the way because it appears to be the only criticism being leveled at the film.
I want healthcare like Canada, Uk or France.
Will it happen in my life? I'm 35.
See? That's the best you got? Sad...
Why don't you make an argument in favor of the current system vs a single payer system?
But all in all, a very powerful film.
The thing about this weight is pretty week. I saw him on Larry King last night and he's lost a fair bit of it. He says this film has made him look into living a much healthier life and made the point that it's part of what needs to be done.
I am no Moore fan by far... But this is such a no brainer issue.
Anyone that doesn't believe that insurance & pharmaceutical companies have been screwing people over are in another world.
Frank is so right here it's not even funny.
Everytime Michael Moore makes a movie, he gets lumped in with Ann Coulter, Michael Savage, Rush Limbaugh, and the usual host of Right Wing cancers.
Which is sad- because love or hate his tactics (and you can do both at the same time)- he is a provocateur in the BEST sense of the word. He is trying to start dialogues about serious topics, using humor, satire, and facts to communicate to the broadest possible audience.
To focus on ad hominem attacks is so senseless and tired.
Even conservative shills are ceding this point. But it seems like they're line is not going to be gov't run health insurance, but getting MORE private companies involved. I do like how Moore isn't pussyfooting around and is actually saying flat out that private insurance should be put 110% out of business As opposed to the weak-kneed "compromise" some have been floating around that gives gov't subsidies to private insurance companies, thus lowering the out-of-pocket cost for us.
yes, and liberals who do this especially need to STFU
And I did enjoy reading this in the Chicago Tribune....
Tim Egan, Vice president and executive director, Norwegian American Hospital
Published June 30, 2007
Chicago -- Thank you for Helen Evans' "What Michael Moore left on the cutting room floor" commentary. The health-care issue in the United States is far too complex to find a solution in a Michael Moore documentary, especially when it only shows the sales pitch for the English health-care system and not the grotesque underbelly of long waiting times for treatment and a system in which really only the wealthy receive appropriate care.[/b]
As a hospital administrator attending an executive program at Kellogg School of Management recently, I was surprised by one of the other attendees, a cardiologist from Spain.
For the first three days of the course, this physician berated the American health-care system repeatedly.
On the fourth day, I confronted the physician and asked him why, then, would he attend a course taught in a well-respected branch of a United States' institution, Northwestern University.
"Because," he said. "Without American research and development, the rest of the world would suffer."
His message was clear: While our health-care system is flawed and in need of a massive overhaul, the money and resources devoted to the advancement of health care in America is unprecedented worldwide, and without it, the state of health care in every corner of the Earth would be far worse off.[/b]
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And there is a certain amount of irony in Michael Moore, a guy who obviously doesn't take care of himself healthwise, suggesting a Government should do it for him.
There's no doubt we have the worst Health Care System in the world....except for most of the other ones.
That's #2. In 2 posts, no less!
I bet if Michael Moore were the picture of fitness,
170lbs with 0% body fat and a glowing complexion, your
post would read:
No one is talking about medical technology, advancement and resources. Infact, the fact that the USA has so much of the three, all while people still can't see a doctor when they need to should point out what an absurd system we're living under.
As though that anecdote compromises the message of Sicko in any way.
First of all, research and development dollars in any given country have next to NO bearing on what level of health care that country's citizens receive. U.S. universities (like the Goliath that is Johns Hopkins here in Baltimore) are still on the cutting edge of medical-science technology -- and that doctor was coming to the U.S. so that he can take those procedures and technologies to the citizens of his country who, unlike most Americans, will have access to it.
Secondly, talk to any honest person in science or medicine academics right now, and they'll tell you that the research money that was coming from the U.S. goverment is at about 1/10 of what it was before Bush. The money that's fueling "U.S." medical research and development comes almost entirely from private donors and foundations now, and does NOT reflect positively on the U.S. government.
We'll never know will we.
But I do love how you try to predict what I might think or do......it's obviously easy and transparent.....or you're a real friggin' genius.
BTW....I also had a problem with those Keith Richards "Don't Do Drugs" ads!
:TheROCK:
Like I mentioned in my post. Moore has turned to living a healthier life because of this movie. When I watched him on Larry King last night, one of the first things I noticed was the loss of weight. He says it's been 30 pounds in 3 months.
I've always had a distaste for Moore. If you could see post from a few years ago, it shows.
But watch the film and try really hard to take out a bit of the bullshit (Which he does for satire purposes) and just get to the essence of the film's message.
It's not a matter of predicting anything, I am
merely pointing out your tiresome habit of bringing up
things that HAVE NOTHING TO DO with what is actually
being discussed, to try to form some kind of argument.
For that matter, YOU have no idea what kind of health
Michael Moore is in, except that he is obese and doesn't
shave often enough. For all YOU know, despite his weight
he could be in fine health. My "prediction" was merely meant
to show how useless your argument was, since you could easily
have made the opposite argument just to derail the thread,
as is your M.O.
Personally, I love the fact that Americans invest a lot in medical research. I have a problem with the fact that I cannot afford the obvious benefits of our efforts, while apparently the majority of the free world gets them for well... free.
Ps rockadelic is retarded, it's not fucking about michael moores health now is it really, are you that shallow or just stupid.
And you're always there to point it out....I'm nothing without you!!
Go read the first post and tell me what I derailed....
Then read the second post where it states Moore is fat and tell me again, how my stating basically the same thing "derailed" anything. (Well we admitted he was fat and unhealthy to "get it out of the way" why did you have to bring it up again)
"We were on this like serious intellectual track that shows how American Health Care sucks and mistreats poor people and then you derailed it dude"!!
Moore is a hypocrite........I mean damn, he owns more Halliburton stock than I do!!!
Everything I've seen of his work is biased and misleading(Oh yeah, all that misleading bullshit was just the satirical part of the DOCUMENTARY)
And reading here recently that Moore's a miserable human being made my little heart flutter.
Like Moore's new diet, I am going to only post about music or basketball here starting now, til the end of July. That way this place can get back on track and not have to worry about me derailing anything.
Enjoy.
I'm going out diggin' in my SUV carrying my HMO card that I earned with my BAS.
P.S. Pablo.....all the best to your GF......can't you marry her and then she would qualify for Canadian health care?? Or can she just cross the border and qualify?
until the oil runs out
Link?
Michael Moore Owns Halliburton Stock
World Net Daily| November 2 2005
"I don't own a single share of stock!" filmmaker Michael Moore proudly proclaimed.
He's right. He doesn't own a single share. He owns tens of thousands of shares ??? including nearly 2,000 shares of Boeing, nearly 1,000 of Sonoco, more than 4,000 of Best Foods, more than 3,000 of Eli Lilly, more than 8,000 of Bank One and more than 2,000 of Halliburton, the company most vilified by Moore in "Fahrenheit 9/11."
If you want to see Moore's own signed Schedule D declaring his capital gains and losses where his stock ownership is listed, it's emblazoned on the cover of Peter Schweizer's new book, "Do As I Say (Not As I Do): Profiles in Liberal Hypocrisy."
And it's just one of the startling revelations by Schweizer, famous for his previous works, "Reagan's War" and "The Bushes."
Other examples:
House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, who proclaims her support for unions, yet the luxury resort, the vineyard and the restaurants she partly owns are strictly non-union. While she advocates tough new laws enforcing environmental regulations on the private sector, the exclusive country club she partly owns failed to comply with existing environmental regulations for the past eight years ??? including a failure to protect endangered species.
Noam Chomsky has made a reputation for calling America a police state and branding the Pentagon "the most hideous institution on earth," yet his entire academic career, writes Schweizer, has been subsidized by the U.S. military.
Barbra Streisand is another proponent of environmentalism, yet she drives an SUV, lives in a mansion and has a $22,000 annual water bill. In the past, she has driven to appointments in Beverly Hills in a motor home because of her aversion to using public bathrooms.
Ralph Nader plays the role of the citizen avenger ??? the populist uninterested in wealth and materialism, pretending to live in a modest apartment. In fact, he lives in fancy homes registered in the names of his siblings.
This is not just a book of "gotcha" journalism, explains Schweizer. He says the dozens and dozens of examples of "liberal hypocrisy" he cites in his book "are of central importance in evaluating the validity and usefulness of liberal ideas."
"Using IRS records, court depositions, news reports, financial disclosures and their own statements, I sought to answer a particular question: Do these liberal leaders and activists practice what they preach?" he writes. "What I found was a stunning record of open and shameless hypocrisy. Those who champion the cause of organized labor had developed various methods to avoid paying union wages or shunned unions altogether.
"Those who believe that the rich need to pay more in taxes proved especially adept at avoiding taxes themselves. Critics of capitalism and corporate enterprise frequently invested in the very companies they denounced. Those who espouse strict environmental regulations worked vigorously to sidestep them when it came to their own businesses and properties. Those who advocate steep inheritance taxes to promote fairer income distribution hid their investments in trusts or exotic overseas locales to reduce their own tax liability. Those who are strong proponents of affirmative action rarely practiced it themselves, and some had abysmal records when it came to hiring minorities. Those who proclaim themselves champions of civil liberties when it comes to criminal or terrorist cases went to extraordinary lengths to curtail the civil liberties of others when they felt threatened or just inconvenienced. Advocates of gun control had no problem making sure that an arsenal of weapons was available to protect them from dangerous criminals."
World Net Daily? Yeah, I believe that.
Additionally, anyone who blankets 50 million+ people in this country under the dismissive pejorative "liberal" should be disqualified from all forms of civilized debate.
Rather than me try to convince you, here is what the author has to say. I'm pretty sure forging Federal documents gets you some jail time.
If you want to debate him I'll find you his email address.
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In a recent speech broadcast on C-SPAN, Michael Moore complains that a ???crazy person??? (that would be me) has been spreading lies about him, including the story that he owns stock in a number of evil vicious multinational corporations, including Halliburton. ???Michael Moore own Halliburton stock???? the anti-corporate activist told his supporters at the Paul Wellstone Memorial Dinner. ???See, that???s like a great comedy line. I know it???s not true - I mean, I???ve never owned a share of stock in my life.??? He went on: ???Anybody who knows me knows that, you know - who???s gonna believe that? Just crazy people are going to believe it - crazy people who tune-in to the Fox News Channel.??? (Looks like this crazy person is in good company.)
On the back cover of my book, I include part of Michael Moore???s 990PF that he files with the IRS for a tax shelter he and his wife set up and control. The form clearly shows that Moore bought and sold shares in Halliburton and a number of other vicious, evil corporations. Look through the tax forms from 1998 to the present, and you will find more of the same.
How is it possible for Michael Moore to say he doesn???t own any stock while his tax forms say otherwise? Since Michael Moore simply never lies, this must be a case of identity theft.
Here is what must have happened. Someone set up a tax shelter and registered it at Michael Moore???s home address in Michigan. The thief transferred money from Moore???s accounts into this private foundation and then hired an investment broker to pour the money into corporate stock and bonds. The thief must have practiced forging Michael Moore???s name because the signature on the tax form is a perfect match. To make matters worse, the thief must look exactly like Michael Moore because the only other person involved with the tax shelter is his wife, Kathleen Glynn, and she never noticed anything going wrong. (The private foundation has no staff or other trustees.)
So who is behind this nefarious plot? My first guess is Dick Cheney. Think about it, Cheney has a lot of experience with this covert operations. And a look at the stocks in portfolio includes plenty from the military-industrial complex and oil industry, who are of course all of Cheney???s best friends. When the Halliburton stock in question was first purchased, Cheney was CEO. What better way to boost the stock price than use Michael Moore???s money?
But at second glance, this sort of operation is too soft for Cheney. If he wanted to get Mike, a dirty ops campaign like this would be too mild. Wouldn???t he just trump up charges and invade Michigan?
That brings us to another possibility: Karl Rove. Whenever anything goes wrong on the Left (remember those fake Bush National Guard papers?), Mike thinks Rove is behind it. He has to be behind this, too, right?
All joking aside, Michael Moore is following a tactic that too many of the liberal-leftist elite use to avoid any sort of accountability. Think about it: when was the last time you heard a leader of the Left apologize for anything? Too many seem to embrace the Stalinist precept that they cannot make mistakes.
The real question facing the Left???s rank-and-file when it comes to the hypocrites I highlight in my book is this: are you going to stand by your principles or your heroes? If you truly believe what you claim, you shouldn???t tolerate this kind of hypocrisy on the part of your leaders.
Conservative leaders who have fallen short publicly apologize, take responsibility for their actions, and work on changing. Leaders on the Left simply are not held into account in the same manner. The media give them a free pass and rank-and-file leftists do not want to question them. Being a leader on the Left means never having to say you are sorry. It???s time for that to change.
So I ask those on the liberal-Left: Who are you going to believe, Michael Moore or his tax returns?
Nah, thats a pretty official site. They also informed me that "President Bush is not to blame for the rampant immorality of ...welfare-pampered blacks," they're like a bunch of modern day Murrow's over there.
I mean, I was basically on board when Rock pointed out that we pay for illegal immigrant babies to be delivered (cant they just do it themselves in the parking lot or something???), but the worldnet article sealed it for me
But Rock, please enlighten me, how do we, as concerned americans, respond to this?
that was really funny...and informative.
The way people talk about our Health Care system you would think we ARE making undocumented immigrants give birth in the parking lot, but alas, we pay for it 100%. Is there another country that does this???
As an American what I do is buy Health Insurance.
Every time I see SS threads about ridiculously overpriced sneakers, IPhones, watches, and other things I can't afford........... And I witness those who spend $100's if not $1,000's each month on records, it makes me feel good to know that these folks all have the best Health Care money can buy.
Otherwise why would they spend money on such frivilous stuff??