Sicko

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  • mallardmallard 452 Posts
    The US Department of Agriculture (USDA) announced the results of a study that found that just $.64 could buy the government-recommended daily three servings of fruits and four servings of vegetables[/b]

    thanks for bolding the bullshit parts

    There is nothing more amusing than someone who calls bullshit but doesn't offer the "truth"

    Educate yourself.....here's a start....even if they are off by 300% it's still cheaper to eat healthy than Fast Food....it's just not as easy/convenient....... it actually takes an effort.....which of course, is "unfair".

    http://www.cnpp.usda.gov/

    i think someone offering and emphasizing[/b] something as a "truth" when he, in fact, knows it's not at all close to true, is much more amusing.

  • GuzzoGuzzo 8,611 Posts
    The US Department of Agriculture (USDA) announced the results of a study that found that just $.64 could buy the government-recommended daily three servings of fruits and four servings of vegetables[/b]

    thanks for bolding the bullshit parts

    There is nothing more amusing than someone who calls bullshit but doesn't offer the "truth"

    Educate yourself.....here's a start....even if they are off by 300% it's still cheaper to eat healthy than Fast Food....it's just not as easy/convenient....... it actually takes an effort.....which of course, is "unfair".

    http://www.cnpp.usda.gov/

    I'm not even trying to make the rich vs. poor ability to obtain food argument, I'm talking about education, which can happen at any school. Kids of all economic classes aren't being taught in school about the dangers of trans fat, saturated fats, red 7, etc. This has nothing to do with personal wealth and everything to do with letting the youth know about unhealthy food, it's effects on the body, and the subsequent health issues they will face when they are older and need to go to the doctor for these problems

  • RockadelicRockadelic Out Digging 13,993 Posts
    The US Department of Agriculture (USDA) announced the results of a study that found that just $.64 could buy the government-recommended daily three servings of fruits and four servings of vegetables[/b]

    thanks for bolding the bullshit parts

    There is nothing more amusing than someone who calls bullshit but doesn't offer the "truth"

    Educate yourself.....here's a start....even if they are off by 300% it's still cheaper to eat healthy than Fast Food....it's just not as easy/convenient....... it actually takes an effort.....which of course, is "unfair".

    http://www.cnpp.usda.gov/

    i think someone offering and emphasizing[/b] something as a "truth" when he, in fact, knows it's not at all close to true, is much more amusing.

    USDA = Bullshit

  • UnherdUnherd 1,880 Posts
    With all due respect Guzzo, i agree that educating kids about eating right is important, but going of on this tangent is really just helping Rock in his mission to steer us away from discussing what this movie is actually about: why health care in this country should be a for-profit business, when in every other civilized industrial country, it is a government service like the fire or police department. Rock only pokes his head back in when he doesnt have to address this central issue.

    If you haven't, you both should see the flick, as grindingly depressing as it is. I agree with you completely that people are lazy and make bad choices about what they eat, starting as kids. But this movie is about getting a bill or having to show proof of insurance when you are in desperate need of emergency medical attention....

  • You're right Rich - people should ignore advertising, locale, convenience, cultural heritage, and peer influence, travel halfway across town if not to another town entirely (if they don't have a car, and there is not suitable public transportation, they should walk) to buy fruits and vegetables, whole grains, and lean meats.

    The exercise they'll get from carrying all those groceries has gotta shave off 20-30 pounds over the course of a couple months. And they'll be eating so healthy!

  • mallardmallard 452 Posts
    You're right Rich - people should ignore advertising, locale, convenience, cultural heritage, and peer influence, travel halfway across town if not to another town entirely (if they don't have a car, and there is not suitable public transportation, they should walk) to buy fruits and vegetables, whole grains, and lean meats.

    The exercise they'll get from carrying all those groceries has gotta shave off 20-30 pounds over the course of a couple months. And they'll be eating so healthy!

    what more can you say? teh realest of realists is among us

  • RockadelicRockadelic Out Digging 13,993 Posts
    You're right Rich - people should ignore advertising, locale, convenience, cultural heritage, and peer influence, travel halfway across town if not to another town entirely (if they don't have a car, and there is not suitable public transportation, they should walk) to buy fruits and vegetables, whole grains, and lean meats.

    The exercise they'll get from carrying all those groceries has gotta shave off 20-30 pounds over the course of a couple months. And they'll be eating so healthy!

    Holy Shit, this is incredible...... maybe the Goverment should deliver healthy meals three times a day to every citizen.

  • mallardmallard 452 Posts
    You're right Rich - people should ignore advertising, locale, convenience, cultural heritage, and peer influence, travel halfway across town if not to another town entirely (if they don't have a car, and there is not suitable public transportation, they should walk) to buy fruits and vegetables, whole grains, and lean meats.

    The exercise they'll get from carrying all those groceries has gotta shave off 20-30 pounds over the course of a couple months. And they'll be eating so healthy!

    Holy Shit, this is incredible...... maybe the Goverment should deliver healthy meals three times a day to every citizen.

    as long as i'm eating the healthiest for less than a dime on the serving, anything goes.

  • You're right Rich - people should ignore advertising, locale, convenience, cultural heritage, and peer influence, travel halfway across town if not to another town entirely (if they don't have a car, and there is not suitable public transportation, they should walk) to buy fruits and vegetables, whole grains, and lean meats.

    The exercise they'll get from carrying all those groceries has gotta shave off 20-30 pounds over the course of a couple months. And they'll be eating so healthy!

    Holy Shit, this is incredible...... maybe the Goverment should deliver healthy meals three times a day to every citizen.

    I take it you don't spend much time hunting for food in poor neighborhoods these days Rich. The options are beyond slim.

    To contrast, I'm off to eat fantastic, cheap, fresh food right around the corner (in my neighborhood where a typical 1-bedroom runs over $2k/month).

  • I'm not a Michael Moore fan at all and have found his previous efforts to be riddled with ad hominem, shoddy logic, and red-herring bullshit. I saw Sicko last week and it seems a bit less objectionable on those grounds. Whether that is because sweeping healthcare reform offers fewer opportunities for polarizing political statements, I'm not sure. What I mean by this is that, in word, people across the political spectrum are willing to acknowledge that there needs to be sweeping healthcare reform. (Of course, a significant number of those people are wary of or violent opposed to anything prefaced with the word "socialized.") In practice, as was pointed out earlier, healthcare industry lobbyists have an incredible amount of influence in killing moves toward universal healthcare.

    To Moore's credit, the film had far fewer instances of what might be called "ambush journalism." It still glossed over certain key elements to advance its points. Notably, its praise of the Clinton healthcare proposal ignored that multiple factors led to that being killed. Among them, the secretive task-force way in which constructed-- which seemed to many undemocratic--, and the fact that the plan was convoluted. It did itself a disservice in attempting to placate private interests to the extent it did and was little more than a medicare/medicaid reform.

    But, yeah-- The film seemed an improvement ofver past efforts-- I didn't see 9/11. It goes without saying that viewers still should not look at Sicko like it's gospel and do comparitive research.

  • RockadelicRockadelic Out Digging 13,993 Posts
    You're right Rich - people should ignore advertising, locale, convenience, cultural heritage, and peer influence, travel halfway across town if not to another town entirely (if they don't have a car, and there is not suitable public transportation, they should walk) to buy fruits and vegetables, whole grains, and lean meats.

    The exercise they'll get from carrying all those groceries has gotta shave off 20-30 pounds over the course of a couple months. And they'll be eating so healthy!

    Holy Shit, this is incredible...... maybe the Goverment should deliver healthy meals three times a day to every citizen.

    I take it you don't spend much time hunting for food in poor neighborhoods these days Rich. The options are beyond slim.

    To contrast, I'm off to eat fantastic, cheap, fresh food right around the corner (in my neighborhood where a typical 1-bedroom runs over $2k/month).

    Jonny....in a City where you can take mass transit round trip to ANY street you want for the cost of a Big Mac, this is the biggest pile of shit I've ever read.

    I don't believe that poor people are lazy.

  • GuzzoGuzzo 8,611 Posts
    I thought this was interesting

    Moore vs. Sanjay Gupta

    Pt 1

  • UnherdUnherd 1,880 Posts
    You're right Rich - people should ignore advertising, locale, convenience, cultural heritage, and peer influence, travel halfway across town if not to another town entirely (if they don't have a car, and there is not suitable public transportation, they should walk) to buy fruits and vegetables, whole grains, and lean meats.

    The exercise they'll get from carrying all those groceries has gotta shave off 20-30 pounds over the course of a couple months. And they'll be eating so healthy!

    Holy Shit, this is incredible...... maybe the Goverment should deliver healthy meals three times a day to every citizen.

    I take it you don't spend much time hunting for food in poor neighborhoods these days Rich. The options are beyond slim.

    To contrast, I'm off to eat fantastic, cheap, fresh food right around the corner (in my neighborhood where a typical 1-bedroom runs over $2k/month).

    Jonny....in a City where you can take mass transit round trip to ANY street you want for the cost of a Big Mac, this is the biggest pile of shit I've ever read.

    I don't believe that poor people are lazy.

    Yeah, when people get home from work, they should just get back on the subway, down to 2nd avenue, and go to whole foods. Thats[/b] a real solution to health care in this country....

    going off on this tangent is really just helping Rock in his mission to steer us away from discussing what this movie is actually about: why health care in this country should be a for-profit business, when in every other civilized industrial country, it is a government service like the fire or police department.

  • RockadelicRockadelic Out Digging 13,993 Posts
    Unheard...I am not the one who "derailed" this thread by posting about the cost of food.

    All I did was respond to a post that basically stated it was cheaper to eat Fast Food than Healthy, and that the Fast Food Industry, like certain types of Loans, preyed on poor people.

    That's not true, and I simply posted a quote from the USDA that said so.

    How is it that MY post, and not the one I was responding to, "changed the topic".

  • SoulOnIceSoulOnIce 13,027 Posts

    All I did was respond to a post that basically stated it was cheaper to eat Fast Food than Healthy, and that the Fast Food Industry, like certain types of Loans, preyed on poor people.

    That's not true -

    That's your opinion, not fact. And a rather uninformed one, at that.

  • FatbackFatback 6,746 Posts

    I don't believe that poor people are lazy.

    I do. It's why I'm poor.

  • UnherdUnherd 1,880 Posts
    If you read my post, you can see I'm criticizing someone else for the threadjack, because I know thats when you love to dive head first into the minutia and provoke people, instead of actually discussing the issue.

    going off on this tangent is really just helping Rock in his mission to steer us away from discussing what this movie is actually about: why health care in this country should be a for-profit business, when in every other civilized industrial country, it is a government service like the fire or police department.

    So??????

  • RockadelicRockadelic Out Digging 13,993 Posts

    All I did was respond to a post that basically stated it was cheaper to eat Fast Food than Healthy, and that the Fast Food Industry, like certain types of Loans, preyed on poor people.

    That's not true -

    That's your opinion, not fact. And a rather uninformed one, at that.

    Ummm....It was taken from a Tuft's University website....hardly my opinion, the $0.64 figure was calculated through the USDA website figures which I posted a link to....I didn't just pull 64 cents out of my ass and post it as my "opinion".

    Now the real "opinion" here is that Fast Food cost less than healthy food.

    At least I posted some real stats and a link to what I would think is the most accurate possible source.

    But it's incovenient, time consuming, and hard work to eat healthy.

    My 96 year old grandmother will get a good laugh out of that.

  • RockadelicRockadelic Out Digging 13,993 Posts
    If you read my post, you can see I'm criticizing someone else for the threadjack, because I know thats when you love to dive head first into the minutia and provoke people, instead of actually discussing the issue.

    going off on this tangent is really just helping Rock in his mission to steer us away from discussing what this movie is actually about: why health care in this country should be a for-profit business, when in every other civilized industrial country, it is a government service like the fire or police department.

    So??????

    For some reason you left out the last sentence of the above quoted paragraph??

    "Rock only pokes his head back in when he doesnt have to address this central issue."

  • SoulOnIceSoulOnIce 13,027 Posts
    Oh my Lord are you stubborn.

    Is it really so damn hard for you to understand that
    a huge percentage of people work/go to school in an area
    where their only lunch options are fast food?

    Yes, you are right, with some effort they could change their
    diet - but with your typical intolerant approach, you fail to
    understand how society, and poor areas in particular, steer
    people, especially poor people, towards junk food. And this is
    all helped along by your beloved USDA and FDA allowing sub-standard
    food barely fit for a dog to be approved as quality product when
    in fact it is far from such.

    When your lunch options are spend $3 at Wendy's or $8 at the fresh
    wrap place, and you make minimum wage, what do you think you'll do?

  • Universal Declaration of Human Rights

    Article 25.

    (1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.


    END OF STORY.

  • RockadelicRockadelic Out Digging 13,993 Posts
    Oh my Lord are you stubborn.

    Is it really so damn hard for you to understand that
    a huge percentage of people work/go to school in an area
    where their only lunch options are fast food?

    Why is it that for generations, people were bringing lunch from home and eating as they pleased, yet today that's not a reasonable option?[/b]



    Yes, you are right, with some effort they could change their
    diet - but with your typical intolerant approach, you fail to
    understand how society, and poor areas in particular, steer
    people, especially poor people, towards junk food. And this is
    all helped along by your beloved USDA and FDA allowing sub-standard
    food barely fit for a dog to be approved as quality product when
    in fact it is far from such.

    Every Fast Food chain has a "healthy" menu. Yet they still sell "Big Schmucks" 100:1 vs. the healthier choice.[/b]


    When your lunch options are spend $3 at Wendy's or $8 at the fresh
    wrap place, and you make minimum wage, what do you think you'll do?

    People who WANT to eat healthy, do.

    I'm not stubborn, I'm right

  • FatbackFatback 6,746 Posts
    Oh my Lord are you stubborn.

    Is it really so damn hard for you to understand that
    a huge percentage of people work/go to school in an area
    where their only lunch options are fast food?

    Why is it that for generations, people were bringing lunch from home and eating as they pleased, yet today that's not a reasonable option?[/b]



    Yes, you are right, with some effort they could change their
    diet - but with your typical intolerant approach, you fail to
    understand how society, and poor areas in particular, steer
    people, especially poor people, towards junk food. And this is
    all helped along by your beloved USDA and FDA allowing sub-standard
    food barely fit for a dog to be approved as quality product when
    in fact it is far from such.

    Every Fast Food chain has a "healthy" menu. Yet they still sell "Big Schmucks" 100:1 vs. the healthier choice.[/b]


    When your lunch options are spend $3 at Wendy's or $8 at the fresh
    wrap place, and you make minimum wage, what do you think you'll do?

    People who WANT to eat healthy, do.

    I'm not stubborn, I'm right

    I'm riding with Rock. I used to shop at the ghetto ass Giant and Safeway in DC. They had spinach, rice, chicken, fish, pineapple juice, oatmeal, etc. among all of the deep fried shit filled pork cakes. It was all cheap.

    Here's another example: If your kid is a celiac, you are going to do to whatever it takes to get him the food he needs and pack his lunch every day. Just apply that same effort to "normal" kids.

  • You're right Rich - people should ignore advertising, locale, convenience, cultural heritage, and peer influence, travel halfway across town if not to another town entirely (if they don't have a car, and there is not suitable public transportation, they should walk) to buy fruits and vegetables, whole grains, and lean meats.

    The exercise they'll get from carrying all those groceries has gotta shave off 20-30 pounds over the course of a couple months. And they'll be eating so healthy!

    Holy Shit, this is incredible...... maybe the Goverment should deliver healthy meals three times a day to every citizen.

    I take it you don't spend much time hunting for food in poor neighborhoods these days Rich. The options are beyond slim.

    To contrast, I'm off to eat fantastic, cheap, fresh food right around the corner (in my neighborhood where a typical 1-bedroom runs over $2k/month).

    Jonny....in a City where you can take mass transit round trip to ANY street you want for the cost of a Big Mac, this is the biggest pile of shit I've ever read.

    I don't believe that poor people are lazy.



    When was the last time you were back in this city Rich? Did you go to any poor neighborhoods? You're talking out of your ass, and as usual making yourself sound disconnected and callous.


    This stuff has been studied and measured. It's not even really a debate.

  • BrianBrian 7,618 Posts
    how is a person in poverty going to have the time to go shopping after working however many jobs just to make ends meet? people buy fast food because it's cheap but the main reason why they buy it is because shits fast.

    i doubt the first thing someone is going to think of doing after getting off a 10 hour shift is to go to the supermarket and spend an hour shopping plus however long it takes to prepare a meal.

  • BrianBrian 7,618 Posts
    on topic though, i haven't seen this movie and probably won't but i currently don't have any sort of insurance and it's kind of scary. i was covered under my mom's plan until this year and might need to holla at some cobra or some shit

  • OkemOkem 4,617 Posts
    how is a person in poverty going to have the time to go shopping after working however many jobs just to make ends meet? people buy fast food because it's cheap but the main reason why they buy it is because shits fast.

    i doubt the first thing someone is going to think of doing after getting off a 10 hour shift is to go to the supermarket and spend an hour shopping plus however long it takes to prepare a meal.

    I find this point of view unbelievable. The real reason people buy junk food is cause it's easy. It takes no effort, and no thought. Cause we're lazy.

    I'm not American, so I can't comment on how easy it is to buy fresh produce, but over here, if you're poor, you have to cook your own food.
    And you don't go food shopping every day!? You buy for the week. And yes, sometimes, it's a pain, to prepare a meal after a long days work, but thats life. Shit you should try being a working mother, who has to go to work, shop, and cook a healthy balanced meal for a family, all on a budget. And if she can do that, one dude complaining that it's too much work to feed himself healthily, is just pathetic.

  • In general I am less concerned with "one dude" who is too lazy to cook for himself, than with a mother of many who is tasked with teaching her children how to eat healthy.

    I don't know the UK, but I wonder - as NYC moves more towards having "suburban slums" not unlike what I understand "estates" to be - are there very many grocery options on the outskirts?

    I merely speak from experience, but there are entire swaths of neighborhood with literally nothing but corner liquor stores and fried chicken joints. The nearest grocery is a fair train or bus ride away and is just not feasible for someone who is working two jobs or long shifts.

    "Shopping for the week" is rarely a reality if you are subsisting on food stamps.




    But we can also just call it what it is:

    Blacks and Latinos, in poor neighborhoods, are disproportionately obese and unhealthy.

    So, what is it then? Are these folks being underserved, or are they just stupid and lazy?


    There is a direct link between access to supermarkets???which are usually the least expensive sources of food???and healthier dietary intake. Individuals living near stores stocking such products tend to eat more healthy foods. And for both blacks and whites, the presence of at least one neighborhood supermarket is associated with self-reported food intake meeting dietary recommendations. Interestingly, the association is much stronger among blacks than whites: With each additional supermarket in a neighborhood, fruit and vegetable intake increased 32 percent among African Americans and 11 percent among whites living there.

    But across a variety of states, studies show that middle- and higher-income neighborhoods have two to four times as many supermarkets as do low-income neighborhoods. Poorer and nonwhite neighborhoods also have fewer fruit and vegetable markets, bakeries, specialty stores, and natural food stores (see Table 2). In the Detroit metropolitan area, for example, the poorest African American neighborhoods are an average of 1.1 miles further from the nearest supermarket than are impoverished white neighborhoods.


    link

  • BrianBrian 7,618 Posts
    was i complaining about my personal situation? learn to read muthafuckah before you start calling someone pathetic.

    yes, people buy fast food because they are lazy. rich people, poor people, middle class people, whatever the fuck. however when this laziness is compounded with other factors such as poverty, time, lack of fresh food stores nearby, and many other things that keep people in poverty impoverished, they add up and wear a person down.

    yes, i am aware that there are working mothers out there who prepare fresh food, clean, go to work, take care of their kids, and do all kinds of nice stuff. sure, everyone in this situation is getting by and a lot of people in poverty do get by. the question is how do they GET OUT? if you're in poverty you're probably making minimum wage which means not only are you living paycheck to paycheck with no way of saving any money but chances are your job does not have any room for advancement.

    how does someone who works multiple jobs just to get by save up money for a car so they can reliably get to work? how does this person save up money for college so they can get out of the trap they are in? how does this person even find time for college?

  • I don't know the UK, but I wonder - as NYC moves more towards having "suburban slums" not unlike what I understand "estates" to be - are there very many grocery options on the outskirts?

    Council estates are actually more like housing projects in a lot of cases, just a bunch of tower blocks in poor areas, similar to a lot of cities in the USA.
    There are places on the outskirts too like you suggest, and there generally aren't a lot of options other than small local convenience stores or an out of town supermarket which isn't always accessible by public transport...
    Obviously can't speak for the whole of the UK, but that's my experience...
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