i was never that keen on the record in the first place. the poor pressing didn't help the listening experience either. i think that is one of the most overrated golden era hip hop lps.....
I don't think people were hyped on it because of how GOOD it was as much as how groundbreaking it was in terms of sampling and the way a hip hop album is made. It has its place in the history of things but few people that I know ever go back and bump this shit like it's new.
word. i hear what your saying. I'm fan of their next two lps I'm a bit hit and miss with the rest of their stuff. prince Paul is one of my favourite producers.
you all are TRIPPIN! This record hold up- even the skits! "Buddy", "Eye know", "D.A.I.S.Y. Age","Plug Tunin", "Ghetto Thang" and The Magic Number" still sound cool as hell!
i was never that keen on the record in the first place. the poor pressing didn't help the listening experience either. i think that is one of the most overrated golden era hip hop lps.....
I don't think people were hyped on it because of how GOOD it was as much as how groundbreaking it was in terms of sampling and the way a hip hop album is made. It has its place in the history of things but few people that I know ever go back and bump this shit like it's new.
word. i hear what your saying. I'm fan of their next two lps I'm a bit hit and miss with the rest of their stuff. prince Paul is one of my favourite producers.
you all are TRIPPIN! This record hold up- even the skits! "Buddy", "Eye know", "D.A.I.S.Y. Age","Plug Tunin", "Ghetto Thang" and The Magic Number" still sound cool as hell!
I dunno alot fo the albums that i thought were incredible when i first heard them I still think are incredible.
So why would you conclude that the concept of "not aging well" is invalid, rather than that those are albums that just don't belong in the discussion?
Can you think of no album that you were once really into that just doesn't sound good anymore?
b/w
My nomination:
That album along with Quality Control were enlightening for me. Stylistically it was something new, and I think that's why I really really liked both albums. And I hardly ever listen to those albums just cuz I don't get as excited over them. Now I like more grimy and gangsta rap stuff. AP said it best in the Waxpo article that you "you still like them. but you outgrow your relationships with them". I think that summarizes the "hasn't aged well" question. Like 10 years from now, I'm pretty sure I won't be listening to gangsta rap with the amount of fervor I do now. Gangsta rap empowers people that don't have nothing to do with the ghetto and gangsta life. And when that sense of empowerment/high/delusion wears off, you're left with only the stylistic element. Which is fun in the let's get drunk and party context, but maybe is far different from your lifestyle in the future. Listening to classical and going to operas may be part of your listening experience as well. Who knows. Okay, I'm ranting but you get the idea.
Dude, that record is embarassingly awful--it only sounds "new" if you haven't heard any quality old school rap.
Yea, I mean that's the other point I was gonna note. I didn't know old school rap at the time. It may sound tepid, but not awful. Matter of fact, it may be close to an imitation, but there aren't many throwback groups that were as focused. To me, that album had a lot of merit then, and slighly less but now too. Your expectations for rap are obviously higher than mine. And that's all good.
I think people's taste in music is in great part determined by what they've listened to up until that point, what their lifestyle is, and consequently what they seek in music at the time.
I dunno alot fo the albums that i thought were incredible when i first heard them I still think are incredible.
So why would you conclude that the concept of "not aging well" is invalid, rather than that those are albums that just don't belong in the discussion?
Can you think of no album that you were once really into that just doesn't sound good anymore?
b/w
My nomination:
That album along with Quality Control were enlightening for me. Stylistically it was something new, and I think that's why I really really liked both albums. And I hardly ever listen to those albums just cuz I don't get as excited over them. Now I like more grimy and gangsta rap stuff. AP said it best in the Waxpo article that you "you still like them. but you outgrow your relationships with them". I think that summarizes the "hasn't aged well" question. Like 10 years from now, I'm pretty sure I won't be listening to gangsta rap with the amount of fervor I do now. Gangsta rap empowers people that don't have nothing to do with the ghetto and gangsta life. And when that sense of empowerment/high/delusion wears off, you're left with only the stylistic element. Which is fun in the let's get drunk and party context, but maybe is far different from your lifestyle in the future. Listening to classical and going to operas may be part of your listening experience as well. Who knows. Okay, I'm ranting but you get the idea.
Dude, that record is embarassingly awful--it only sounds "new" if you haven't heard any quality old school rap.
I don't think this one is so bad. It's their best release, IMO. I also don't think the Black Starr is so crappy. And to call 3 Feet High a bad lp is NAGL.
I dunno alot fo the albums that i thought were incredible when i first heard them I still think are incredible.
So why would you conclude that the concept of "not aging well" is invalid, rather than that those are albums that just don't belong in the discussion?
Can you think of no album that you were once really into that just doesn't sound good anymore?
b/w
My nomination:
That album along with Quality Control were enlightening for me. Stylistically it was something new, and I think that's why I really really liked both albums. And I hardly ever listen to those albums just cuz I don't get as excited over them. Now I like more grimy and gangsta rap stuff. AP said it best in the Waxpo article that you "you still like them. but you outgrow your relationships with them". I think that summarizes the "hasn't aged well" question. Like 10 years from now, I'm pretty sure I won't be listening to gangsta rap with the amount of fervor I do now. Gangsta rap empowers people that don't have nothing to do with the ghetto and gangsta life. And when that sense of empowerment/high/delusion wears off, you're left with only the stylistic element. Which is fun in the let's get drunk and party context, but maybe is far different from your lifestyle in the future. Listening to classical and going to operas may be part of your listening experience as well. Who knows. Okay, I'm ranting but you get the idea.
Dude, that record is embarassingly awful--it only sounds "new" if you haven't heard any quality old school rap.
I don't think this one is so bad. It's their best release, IMO. I also don't think the Black Starr is so crappy. And to call 3 Feet High a bad lp is NAGL.
Just to be clear: my comments should not be read as implying that I think there is some better Jurassic 5 recording out there; this is the only record by them that I have ever heard and I have no doubt that it is their best.
It's still awful. Hemp-fueled old skool revivalism. The Sha Na Na of Rap. Would make a great soundtrack to a Broadway musical about the early days of rapp.
what makes a lot of 'early 90s pop rap' age badly for me is the OVERPLAYEDNESS of it, largely by corny people - baby got back, bust a move, regulators, etc. - thus "Jump" is aging badly while WARM IT UP KRIS is KLASSIC u heard!!!
I dunno alot fo the albums that i thought were incredible when i first heard them I still think are incredible.
So why would you conclude that the concept of "not aging well" is invalid, rather than that those are albums that just don't belong in the discussion?
Can you think of no album that you were once really into that just doesn't sound good anymore?
b/w
My nomination:
That album along with Quality Control were enlightening for me. Stylistically it was something new, and I think that's why I really really liked both albums. And I hardly ever listen to those albums just cuz I don't get as excited over them. Now I like more grimy and gangsta rap stuff. AP said it best in the Waxpo article that you "you still like them. but you outgrow your relationships with them". I think that summarizes the "hasn't aged well" question. Like 10 years from now, I'm pretty sure I won't be listening to gangsta rap with the amount of fervor I do now. Gangsta rap empowers people that don't have nothing to do with the ghetto and gangsta life. And when that sense of empowerment/high/delusion wears off, you're left with only the stylistic element. Which is fun in the let's get drunk and party context, but maybe is far different from your lifestyle in the future. Listening to classical and going to operas may be part of your listening experience as well. Who knows. Okay, I'm ranting but you get the idea.
Dude, that record is embarassingly awful--it only sounds "new" if you haven't heard any quality old school rap.
I don't think this one is so bad. It's their best release, IMO. I also don't think the Black Starr is so crappy. And to call 3 Feet High a bad lp is NAGL.
Just to be clear: my comments should not be read as implying that I think there is some better Jurassic 5 recording out there; this is the only record by them that I have ever heard and I have no doubt that it is their best.
It's still awful. Hemp-fueled old skool revivalism. The Sha Na Na of Rap. Would make a great soundtrack to a Broadway musical about the early days of rapp.
Hey hemp-fueled old school revivalism worked for kids (such as myself) not exposed to old school rap, and Bronx tradition and what not. I lived in San Diego about 6 years ago, it was college town, everybody is listening to rock or John Mayer or what not, I started listening to J5. The validity of rap came secondary to listening to something new. This music meant something to me back then. It was just another wannabe act for you. It's all good. You should listen to Quality Control. It's more refined and has solid beats.
Anything that relied on a "Now" sound to mask the absence of talent or a decent song, like stuttering (Paul Hardcastle's "19"), scratching noises (Herbie's "Rockit"), Nick Martinelli cowbells, or cheesy by-the-numbers DX7 demo noises. Marcus Miller's first two solo cheeses.
The 80's, basically. Apart from The Police. Police remain Also, big synth offenders like The Human League and Flyte-Time still stand up for me. Maybe they really understood what worked well.
yeah its basically self concious "now style" choices made in writing and production that kill potential timelessness. anything that "everybodys doing" should be avoided but producers and artists want to look "with it" and "on top of things". plus, in the moment, it may help it sell...
good timeless music/recordings you might be able to date by ear but thats not the reason you like it. non-aged well stuff is instantly dateable by ear and that factor overrides all other impressions of the recording.
a killer song with no flashy production trickery will hold up forever. a killer song with faddish production choices has hurt its chances of being relevant later.
i say that all the autotune stuff will be looked at as NAGL in a while (even the "good" ones we may like today).
Anything that relied on a "Now" sound to mask the absence of talent or a decent song, like stuttering (Paul Hardcastle's "19"), scratching noises (Herbie's "Rockit"), Nick Martinelli cowbells, or cheesy by-the-numbers DX7 demo noises. Marcus Miller's first two solo cheeses.
The 80's, basically. Apart from The Police. Police remain Also, big synth offenders like The Human League and Flyte-Time still stand up for me. Maybe they really understood what worked well.
Later stuff: Goldie.
The Police: my gf (big Police fan) went to see them last year (Isle of White? year before?) and said they haven't aged well. They've lost all of their rhythm, she said they actually couldn't play[/b] half of their hits, and the crowd kept asking for Sting songs that the rest of the band didn't want to play. So live they haven't aged, but I hear you on the recorded material. Can I add Roxy Music? Love Is The Drug.
I think the stuff from the 80s that hasn't aged well is the stuff that relied heavily on keyboards - every band had a massive Roland or Yamaha keyboard that seemed to produce the melody, the chords, the beats, and if an 80s band wasn't relying on a synth for the drums, they had a plastic drumkit
Is Goldie a n't or a has? Never liked him in the first place, so for me he's a hasn't. Early Photek on the other hand just gets better for me.
yeah its basically self concious "now style" choices made in writing and production that kill potential timelessness. anything that "everybodys doing" should be avoided but producers and artists want to look "with it" and "on top of things". plus, in the moment, it may help it sell...
dont most artists making music NOW want to sound like NOW and not yesterday or next tuesday bacause the audience wont get it?
I dont see anything wrong w/ putting a spin on what the "current language" is the music game.
To expect every cat making music to try and invent the TIMELESS NEXT SOUND is kinda crazy. Cant a dude just serve pizza?
Anything that relied on a "Now" sound to mask the absence of talent or a decent song, like stuttering (Paul Hardcastle's "19)
HOOOOOOOOOLD THE F*ck ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hear what you say about the stuttering on here, but the boy Hardcastle is a GOD of record making; definitely no lack of talent or decent songs. The b-side of '19' is killer in any age, as is the b-side of 'Dont Waste My Time' so is the stuff with First Light, and don't even get me started on the ill Bruton libraries he did (cd only)
Anything that relied on a "Now" sound to mask the absence of talent or a decent song, like stuttering (Paul Hardcastle's "19)
HOOOOOOOOOLD THE F*ck ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hear what you say about the stuttering on here, but the boy Hardcastle is a GOD of record making; definitely no lack of talent or decent songs. The b-side of '19' is killer in any age, as is the b-side of 'Dont Waste My Time' so is the stuff with First Light, and don't even get me started on the ill Bruton libraries he did (cd only)
I wasn't feeling "19" but everything up to then had been good - I recall "Rain Forest" and the like having that illness to the bass. I think I have an OG press of that, on Bluebird. Maybe "19" was the one that launched all the stuttering into the mainstream that, along with video stuttering, became as palatable as a tramp's bellend.
But yeah, I know he has talent. His "Jazzmasters" stuff coined it in for him in the early 90s. I am not fam with the library stuff but he can groove the elevator flat out should he choose.
I'll put the bubble perm down to the caprice of the time, but from the English Manzel phase through to the smoothavacious jazz funk era, PH is up there with the best IMHO.
yeah its basically self concious "now style" choices made in writing and production that kill potential timelessness. anything that "everybodys doing" should be avoided but producers and artists want to look "with it" and "on top of things". plus, in the moment, it may help it sell...
dont most artists making music NOW want to sound like NOW and not yesterday or next tuesday bacause the audience wont get it?
I dont see anything wrong w/ putting a spin on what the "current language" is the music game.
To expect every cat making music to try and invent the TIMELESS NEXT SOUND is kinda crazy. Cant a dude just serve pizza?
Yes, but there is a difference between something being "stylish" and something being "trendy."
The stylish stuff may be of its' time and place, but never goes stale.
The trendy stuff is like the first thing that people laugh at when they look back at the decades.
I'm not saying that the trendy stuff is bad, I'm just saying that you can be so on top of your time that you'll look like a time capsule years later. And that's not always good...
yeah its basically self concious "now style" choices made in writing and production that kill potential timelessness. anything that "everybodys doing" should be avoided but producers and artists want to look "with it" and "on top of things". plus, in the moment, it may help it sell...
dont most artists making music NOW want to sound like NOW and not yesterday or next tuesday bacause the audience wont get it?
I dont see anything wrong w/ putting a spin on what the "current language" is the music game.
To expect every cat making music to try and invent the TIMELESS NEXT SOUND is kinda crazy. Cant a dude just serve pizza?
Yes, but there is a difference between something being "stylish" and something being "trendy."
The stylish stuff may be of its' time and place, but never goes stale.
The trendy stuff is like the first thing that people laugh at when they look back at the decades.
I'm not saying that the trendy stuff is bad, I'm just saying that you can be so on top of your time that you'll look like a time capsule years later. And that's not always good...
I cant think of many artists who can transcend the eras they came out of.
I think im wording it wrong.
Look at the Isleys who were regular doo-wop/r&b dudes who had a strong run up until the late 70's/early 80's. Depends on if you ride for their Drum machine era.
Then in the 90's they rejuvinate w/ the help of younger artists who were reared on their sound.
And it all sounds like the Isleys, unlike someone like Madonna who never acted like she wasnt a producers vehicle.
yeah its basically self concious "now style" choices made in writing and production that kill potential timelessness. anything that "everybodys doing" should be avoided but producers and artists want to look "with it" and "on top of things". plus, in the moment, it may help it sell...
dont most artists making music NOW want to sound like NOW and not yesterday or next tuesday bacause the audience wont get it?
I dont see anything wrong w/ putting a spin on what the "current language" is the music game.
To expect every cat making music to try and invent the TIMELESS NEXT SOUND is kinda crazy. Cant a dude just serve pizza?
Yes, but there is a difference between something being "stylish" and something being "trendy."
The stylish stuff may be of its' time and place, but never goes stale.
The trendy stuff is like the first thing that people laugh at when they look back at the decades.
I'm not saying that the trendy stuff is bad, I'm just saying that you can be so on top of your time that you'll look like a time capsule years later. And that's not always good...
I cant think of many artists who can transcend the eras they came out of.
I think im wording it wrong.
Look at the Isleys who were regular doo-wop/r&b dudes who had a strong run up until the late 70's/early 80's. Depends on if you ride for their Drum machine era.
Then in the 90's they rejuvinate w/ the help of younger artists who were reared on their sound.
And it all sounds like the Isleys, unlike someone like Madonna who never acted like she wasnt a producers vehicle.
just babblin'- dont know where im goin w/ this.
Actually, if you were trying to imply that the Isleys transcended their era(s), I would agree with that.
The top 3 songs in Cashbox magazine for May 10, 1969 were, in this order, "Hair" by the Cowsills, "It's Your Thing" by the Isley Brothers, and "Aquarius/Let The Sunshine In" by the Fifth Dimension.
I know it's a matter of opinion, but of those three, only the Isleys cut could be called timeless. (It helps that it didn't come from a B'way play that pretended to be topical, like the other two songs did.)
And I like the Cowsills cut, too, but that and the 5-D song only make sense in that cultural moment. The Isleys song sounds like 1969 too, but doesn't seem to have dated as badly.
yeah its basically self concious "now style" choices made in writing and production that kill potential timelessness. anything that "everybodys doing" should be avoided but producers and artists want to look "with it" and "on top of things". plus, in the moment, it may help it sell...
dont most artists making music NOW want to sound like NOW and not yesterday or next tuesday bacause the audience wont get it?
I dont see anything wrong w/ putting a spin on what the "current language" is the music game.
To expect every cat making music to try and invent the TIMELESS NEXT SOUND is kinda crazy. Cant a dude just serve pizza?
Yes, but there is a difference between something being "stylish" and something being "trendy."
The stylish stuff may be of its' time and place, but never goes stale.
The trendy stuff is like the first thing that people laugh at when they look back at the decades.
I'm not saying that the trendy stuff is bad, I'm just saying that you can be so on top of your time that you'll look like a time capsule years later. And that's not always good...
I cant think of many artists who can transcend the eras they came out of.
I think im wording it wrong.
Look at the Isleys who were regular doo-wop/r&b dudes who had a strong run up until the late 70's/early 80's. Depends on if you ride for their Drum machine era.
Then in the 90's they rejuvinate w/ the help of younger artists who were reared on their sound.
And it all sounds like the Isleys, unlike someone like Madonna who never acted like she wasnt a producers vehicle.
just babblin'- dont know where im goin w/ this.
Actually, if you were trying to imply that the Isleys transcended their era(s), I would agree with that.
The top 3 songs in Cashbox magazine for May 10, 1969 were, in this order, "Hair" by the Cowsills, "It's Your Thing" by the Isley Brothers, and "Aquarius/Let The Sunshine In" by the Fifth Dimension.
I know it's a matter of opinion, but of those three, only the Isleys cut could be called timeless. (It helps that it didn't come from a B'way play that pretended to be topical, like the other two songs did.)
And I like the Cowsills cut, too, but that and the 5-D song only make sense in that cultural moment. The Isleys song sounds like 1969 too, but doesn't seem to have dated as badly.
Comments
you all are TRIPPIN! This record hold up- even the skits! "Buddy", "Eye know", "D.A.I.S.Y. Age","Plug Tunin", "Ghetto Thang" and The Magic Number" still sound cool as hell!
Fuck it they're still dope!
We need a comeback record from them on Babygrande
Yea, I mean that's the other point I was gonna note. I didn't know old school rap at the time. It may sound tepid, but not awful. Matter of fact, it may be close to an imitation, but there aren't many throwback groups that were as focused. To me, that album had a lot of merit then, and slighly less but now too.
Your expectations for rap are obviously higher than mine. And that's all good.
I don't think this one is so bad. It's their best release, IMO. I also don't think the Black Starr is so crappy. And to call 3 Feet High a bad lp is NAGL.
Just to be clear: my comments should not be read as implying that I think there is some better Jurassic 5 recording out there; this is the only record by them that I have ever heard and I have no doubt that it is their best.
It's still awful. Hemp-fueled old skool revivalism. The Sha Na Na of Rap. Would make a great soundtrack to a Broadway musical about the early days of rapp.
Hey hemp-fueled old school revivalism worked for kids (such as myself) not exposed to old school rap, and Bronx tradition and what not. I lived in San Diego about 6 years ago, it was college town, everybody is listening to rock or John Mayer or what not, I started listening to J5. The validity of rap came secondary to listening to something new. This music meant something to me back then. It was just another wannabe act for you. It's all good.
You should listen to Quality Control. It's more refined and has solid beats.
word to Bowzer!
F*ck me, that's some cold shit. How'd I miss this?
The 80's, basically. Apart from The Police. Police remain
Later stuff: Goldie.
good timeless music/recordings you might be able to date by ear but thats not the reason you like it. non-aged well stuff is instantly dateable by ear and that factor overrides all other impressions of the recording.
a killer song with no flashy production trickery will hold up forever. a killer song with faddish production choices has hurt its chances of being relevant later.
i say that all the autotune stuff will be looked at as NAGL in a while (even the "good" ones we may like today).
thats how it works.
shit "hasnt aged well"...UNTIL people start remembering why they liked it in the first place, and the sound comes back.
albums can be topical and still age well, too.
Chet Baker's Face.
Before:
After:
Story goes one dude who hadn't seen him for 20 years caught up with him when he was ravaged. "What happened to your face?" he asked incredulously.
"These are laughter lines" replied Chet.
"Nothing's THAT funny!" came the reply.
The Police: my gf (big Police fan) went to see them last year (Isle of White? year before?) and said they haven't aged well. They've lost all of their rhythm, she said they actually couldn't play[/b] half of their hits, and the crowd kept asking for Sting songs that the rest of the band didn't want to play. So live they haven't aged, but I hear you on the recorded material. Can I add Roxy Music? Love Is The Drug.
I think the stuff from the 80s that hasn't aged well is the stuff that relied heavily on keyboards - every band had a massive Roland or Yamaha keyboard that seemed to produce the melody, the chords, the beats, and if an 80s band wasn't relying on a synth for the drums, they had a plastic drumkit
Is Goldie a n't or a has? Never liked him in the first place, so for me he's a hasn't. Early Photek on the other hand just gets better for me.
dont most artists making music NOW want to sound like NOW and not yesterday or next tuesday bacause the audience wont get it?
I dont see anything wrong w/ putting a spin on what the "current language" is the music game.
To expect every cat making music to try and invent the TIMELESS NEXT SOUND is kinda crazy. Cant a dude just serve pizza?
side babble on my part
HOOOOOOOOOLD THE F*ck ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hear what you say about the stuttering on here, but the boy Hardcastle is a GOD of record making; definitely no lack of talent or decent songs.
The b-side of '19' is killer in any age, as is the b-side of 'Dont Waste My Time' so is the stuff with First Light, and don't even get me started on the ill Bruton libraries he did (cd only)
that is some genius shit, haha
I wasn't feeling "19" but everything up to then had been good - I recall "Rain Forest" and the like having that illness to the bass. I think I have an OG press of that, on Bluebird. Maybe "19" was the one that launched all the stuttering into the mainstream that, along with video stuttering, became as palatable as a tramp's bellend.
But yeah, I know he has talent. His "Jazzmasters" stuff coined it in for him in the early 90s. I am not fam with the library stuff but he can groove the elevator flat out should he choose.
Are we allowing him a pass for his bubble perm?
Yes, but there is a difference between something being "stylish" and something being "trendy."
The stylish stuff may be of its' time and place, but never goes stale.
The trendy stuff is like the first thing that people laugh at when they look back at the decades.
I'm not saying that the trendy stuff is bad, I'm just saying that you can be so on top of your time that you'll look like a time capsule years later. And that's not always good...
I cant think of many artists who can transcend the eras they came out of.
I think im wording it wrong.
Look at the Isleys who were regular doo-wop/r&b dudes who had a strong run up until the late 70's/early 80's. Depends on if you ride for their Drum machine era.
Then in the 90's they rejuvinate w/ the help of younger artists who were reared on their sound.
And it all sounds like the Isleys, unlike someone like Madonna who never acted like she wasnt a producers vehicle.
just babblin'- dont know where im goin w/ this.
Actually, if you were trying to imply that the Isleys transcended their era(s), I would agree with that.
The top 3 songs in Cashbox magazine for May 10, 1969 were, in this order, "Hair" by the Cowsills, "It's Your Thing" by the Isley Brothers, and "Aquarius/Let The Sunshine In" by the Fifth Dimension.
I know it's a matter of opinion, but of those three, only the Isleys cut could be called timeless. (It helps that it didn't come from a B'way play that pretended to be topical, like the other two songs did.)
And I like the Cowsills cut, too, but that and the 5-D song only make sense in that cultural moment. The Isleys song sounds like 1969 too, but doesn't seem to have dated as badly.
hope that makes sense
yep