Swizz rhythms

deejdeej 5,125 Posts
edited March 2007 in Strut Central


can someone explain to me in musical terms exactly what it is that he does with his drums that makes them swing like they do? Or whatever term would best describe that delayed-sounding groove he creates on his recent tracks. I don't mean an explanation of his process, but what rhythmically is going on (like how people explaining swing talk about how its basically breaking 4/4 into 12/8 time etc)
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  • el_sparkoel_sparko 884 Posts
    There's nothing particularly different about those drums, or any technical term either i don't think. It's simply just a bunch of swing in the beat which is more noticeable because the beat is quite slow...

  • deejdeej 5,125 Posts
    i donno it seems like lots of modern rap production uses even 8ths

  • bubor0ckbubor0ck 141 Posts
    are you talking about that sorta trickling things working as a hi hat? sounds like it just starts out in some sort of triplet time..

  • magneticmagnetic 2,678 Posts
    Which ass gave that idiot money to make another album.

  • deejdeej 5,125 Posts
    one of the best rap singles out right now

    It starts out with the beat sounding more square/standard and then these snares come in just off beat right before he starts rapping, and it totally changes the rhythmic feel of the track. Thats what I'm trying to figure out.

  • bubor0ckbubor0ck 141 Posts
    it also sounds like it could have easily been an accident and not programmed, i.e something akin to arpeggiator on a synth--triggered in one shot--that was not sync'd precisely to the beats tempo.

  • bubor0ckbubor0ck 141 Posts
    Are you talking about the snares? I dunno man. Sounds like pretty standard snare programming--not particularly swingy at all. Doesn't really change the rhytmic feel to me.

  • deejdeej 5,125 Posts
    Are you talking about the snares? I dunno man. Sounds like pretty standard snare programming--not particularly swingy at all. Doesn't really change the rhytmic feel to me.
    Compare the snares at the buildup to the snares on yr average Mannie Fresh track or whatever where they all come in with this even rhythm and it sounds to me like there's a big rhythmic difference. Maybe its just coming on the upbeat or something?

  • CousinLarryCousinLarry 4,618 Posts
    Are you talking about the snares? I dunno man. Sounds like pretty standard snare programming--not particularly swingy at all. Doesn't really change the rhytmic feel to me.
    Compare the snares at the buildup to the snares on yr average Mannie Fresh track or whatever where they all come in with this even rhythm and it sounds to me like there's a big rhythmic difference. Maybe its just coming on the upbeat or something?

    Its super scientifical!

  • bubor0ckbubor0ck 141 Posts
    I think the feel has more to do with the kick pattern changing and a couple snares being thrown in not on the 2 or the 4

  • G_BalliandoG_Balliando 3,916 Posts
    are you talking about the snare fill at the end of the bar before the beat drops and he starts rapping?

  • deejdeej 5,125 Posts
    are you talking about the snare fill at the end of the bar before the beat drops and he starts rapping?
    yeah, but that repeats throughout the song.

  • G_BalliandoG_Balliando 3,916 Posts
    yeah this beat sounds pretty standard. he drops a snare in there toward the end of the measure. i don't know of any technical term, he just swings it a little closer to the 1 than directly on the 4 and. it's swing.

  • deejdeej 5,125 Posts
    I'm just wondering how it breaks down rhythmically. Swizz does this a lot in his recent tracks, giving it this loose swung feel that i think sounds pretty specific to swizz but maybe i'm imagining things

  • el_sparkoel_sparko 884 Posts
    Rhythmically it's as simple as just putting extra swing on those extra snares he throws in, enough swing to make them kinda offbeat. I don't think there's anything more technical to say about it...

  • PonyPony 2,283 Posts
    You guys think too much, he probably baked this up it 10 minutes and wouldn't have a clue what you're all talking about.

    BTW that beat is

  • bubor0ckbubor0ck 141 Posts
    Pretty much. And if you're talking about a change in rhythmic feel, I'd say it has more to do with the kick pattern changing.

  • deejdeej 5,125 Posts
    You guys think too much, he probably baked this up it 10 minutes and wouldn't have a clue what you're all talking about.
    ?? and? jazz drummers take approx .01 seconds thinking about swinging when they sit down at a set but there's still a lot you can say about swing.
    I'm not saying he's doing anything super difficult or whatever - i was just wondering how one would describe it in a 'musicological' way.

    agreed that the beat is fire, though.

  • jamesjames chicago 1,863 Posts
    Four things:

    1) I love this jernt. That swing is indeed capital, though I wish it was more present. In the too few moments when those full drums lock in, they remind me of that Peedi/Beans/Twista "Gotta Have It" thing from a few years back (Blaze? Chad West? Who did that shit?).

    2) Swizzy himself claims to have made it a) in fifteen minutes and b) while drunk. Nothing wrong with that, though. Plenty of children get made in the exact same fashion, and there's nothing wrong with them either.

    3) Third verse, same recording as the first, on some Gentrys shit (pickwick33, holler!).

    4) There is no fucking reason at all for this twelve inch to have even one acapella, let alone two. I mean, is vinyl really that expensive?

  • faux_rillzfaux_rillz 14,343 Posts

    4) There is no fucking reason at all for this twelve inch to have even one acapella, let alone two. I mean, is vinyl really that expensive?

    You do not want to hear Swizz recount "chillin' in his Beamer" without musical interference?

  • drewnicedrewnice 5,465 Posts
    The concept of "swing" and rhythm in general is really no more complicated than how much space someone places between individual drum hits. That can be done by hand or with the help of quantization settings on whatever drum machine that person is using. I doesn't sound to me like Swizz is doing anything special with his drums, and next time you listen to a Dilla track, take into consideration that, from what I hear, he didn't use any sort of quantization settings for his sequences.

  • jamesjames chicago 1,863 Posts

    4) There is no fucking reason at all for this twelve inch to have even one acapella, let alone two. I mean, is vinyl really that expensive?

    You do not want to hear Swizz recount "chillin' in his Beamer" without musical interference?

    You may have a point; this definitely does increase its utility with regard to my outgoing message.

    Plus, were it not for the acapellz, it may not have occurred to me that the way he says "band, man" ("I'm the one-man ~") is almost identical to the way Esai Morales says it in La Bamba ("You don't need no ~ , just me backing you up on da beat!"). ??Ay Suizo!

  • magpaulmagpaul 1,314 Posts
    Jay-Z is gonna sample that for the hook of his next record

  • deejdeej 5,125 Posts
    The concept of "swing" and rhythm in general is really no more complicated than how much space someone places between individual drum hits.
    its not about 'complicated'! Although yes, you can say it in lots of different/'more complicated' ways; swing is groups of triplets in 12/8 and I was wondering how it works exactly on this song.

    chad west did 'gotta have it' - i remember reading an interview w/ him where he said he was in talks to get access to the philadelphia international vaults, or something. what happened w/ that?

  • yeah, he just uses triplets. if you don't read music, this might make sense visually:

    1--- 2--- 3--- 4---
    123 123 123 123

    if you do read music. peep:
    sheet music with audio

  • Phill_MostPhill_Most 4,594 Posts
    i don't hear no swing on that cotdamned beat at all

  • yoigotbeatsyoigotbeats 1,667 Posts
    i don't hear no swing on that cotdamned beat at all

    exactly. for all you programmers: sent the quantize to 1/24th and you'll get the same feel. this is just triplets

  • KaushikKaushik 320 Posts
    no mystery to this at all, just play with the quantize in your sequencer. or better yet turn quantize off and drop the snare hits slightly before and/or after the 2 and 4. switch up where you put the snares to give it that loose feel. even better, PLAY the kick and snare parts live in your trusty sequencer for the true blue le jazz drummeur swing feel.

  • BsidesBsides 4,244 Posts
    I was there when he made this, trust me theres no secret to it. Swizz makes beats in like 30 seconds or something. Its just mashing as many weird sounds and shit together as he can. Its weird cause 99 percent of the time it sounds like total shit, but then he gets it right by some odd chance and its hot!

    He uses a 3000, which has a little different swing. But its really just that weird sound hes throwing in there that makes it sound like its riding different. That and he switches to kicks on snares for that little 2 bar section every time.

  • deejdeej 5,125 Posts
    this is just triplets
    so is swing

    i never said there was a mystery or a secret to this. I'm just asking how he gets that rhythmic feel, and what that looks like when broken down musically.
    Thnx bsides for the insight, though i'm surprised yr so down on most of Swizz's tracks. The only one I've really hated lately was that garbage Busta single.
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