Unfortunately, I don't think this election is winnable--which is all the more reason for nominating the best candidate over the most "electable" one. Winnable or not I say go for the best.
From what I see the "Progressive Left" and the "Religious Right" entertain and appeal to only themselves.
They cancel each other out.
Regardless of party, the 'O8 election will be won on "middle ground"
And as Laserwolf pointed out, this is one of Obama's strengths.....to be able to move people closer together to acheive a solution, rather than separating from each other, which is what the defined left and right are doing now.
The best thing that can happen to America is for it's people to realize that the solutions for our most of our problems often lie in the "middle ground".
By top lawyers in the country do you mean that winning multimillion dollar personal injury lawsuits is better than civil rights law and teaching constitutional law?
Whoah!
I missed that part.
Edwards = ambulance chaser
Obama = senior lecturer at one of the country's premier law schools
I must have done something wrong with the comparison. I thought it would show that Obama was more experienced.
By top lawyers in the country do you mean that winning multimillion dollar personal injury lawsuits is better than civil rights law and teaching constitutional law?
edwards is older, was a senator for longer and ran for vice president. yes, being the top in your field means more than being a scholar. didnt your father ever tell you that those who can do and those who can't teach? i keed. in all seriousness, yes. Ross Perot ran on being a success...period. It matters.
Obama has spent his entire working life in public service. Edwards spent 6 years. Obama has many years more experience. To bad teaching doesn't make you a multimillionaire, then you would consider it important.
I agree with you that Edwards is as qualified as Ross Perot +6 years of senate.
image is everything, and no matter how you spin it. Obama is still a black man with a funny name who has been portrayed as a young whippersnapper that doesn't have experience.
his accomplishments don't mean shit unless he gets himself a good PR team
the election is still close to 2 years away. by that time people who care to know, will have all the information they need as far as each candidate's position on the issues.
imo, the dems have too much going for them right now to risk it on Obama. aside form his credentials, there is all the bullshit issues with his name and race. so considering that most of the candidates mirror his positions, i dont see why people who truly care about politics are so set on Obama. Is he the best candidate? i dont know yet, but if he is, the other choices don't trail by much. Edwards and Hillary are brilliant, so is Gore. i'd support any of them, but primarily i just want a dem to win.
you guys seem to think Obama is like a blank slate or something, 'black dude funny name unelectable.' He won in downstate illinois! ok its not the deep south but still...he's got a pretty well established image and while the media's barack fellation is a bit much you can't pretend that overwhelming crowds greeting him at each campaign stop is all journalists. he appeals to the middle while working the left. He needs a PR person??? are you serious? 1. he undoubtedly already has one 2. the best a PR person can do is improve his image with the media, which is already like 'brightest star in the political sky'-type shit.
i do not deny that most people in this country are racist. i will argue that most white people will vote for a black candidate. yeah its nasty, 'obama is one of the good ones' but i think its silly to argue he's unelectable because of race, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
He needs a PR person??? are you serious? 1. he undoubtedly already has one 2. the best a PR person can do is improve his image with the media, which is already like 'brightest star in the political sky'-type shit.
image is everything, and no matter how you spin it. Obama is still a black man with a funny name who has been portrayed as a young whippersnapper that doesn't have experience.
his accomplishments don't mean shit unless he gets himself a good PR team
the election is still close to 2 years away. by that time people who care to know, will have all the information they need as far as each candidate's position on the issues.
imo, the dems have too much going for them right now to risk it on Obama. aside form his credentials, there is all the bullshit issues with his name and race. so considering that most of the candidates mirror his positions, i dont see why people who truly care about politics are so set on Obama. Is he the best candidate? i dont know yet, but if he is, the other choices don't trail by much. Edwards and Hillary are brilliant, so is Gore. i'd support any of them, but primarily i just want a dem to win.
I don't want you to think that I have thrown my support behind Obama. I have not. I also like Bill Richardson, Mark Warner (I think he has decided not to run) Tom Vilsack. Gore, Clinton and Edwards leave me cold. Sorry.
I don't really care who the best candidate is. Kerry was supposed to be the best candidate.
By top lawyers in the country do you mean that winning multimillion dollar personal injury lawsuits is better than civil rights law and teaching constitutional law?
Whoah!
I missed that part.
Edwards = ambulance chaser
Obama = senior lecturer at one of the country's premier law schools
Edwards fought hard against huge companies who had faulty products that killed kids and shit like that. He's far from the "ambulance chaser" he has been portrayed as.
Obama is not gonna win because many white, Asian, Hispanic, and South Asian Americans are closet and won't vote for a black man once the curtain closes on the voting booth.
What about Vilsack or Huckabee? Horrible names, seemingly good dudes, if not herbish.
He needs a PR person??? are you serious? 1. he undoubtedly already has one 2. the best a PR person can do is improve his image with the media, which is already like 'brightest star in the political sky'-type shit.
do you even know what a PR person does?
unless he's knocking on the doors of people who aren't watching obama mania on all the major news channels, then he's not doing shit.
the dude's been on the daily show, oprah, larry king, conan, and fucking monday night football. he's positioned himself incredibly successfully as a centrist, reasonable, common sense guy who seems completely comfortable talking about religion. He's charismatic. He's like the anti-John Kerry
Obama is still a black man with a funny name who has been portrayed as a young whippersnapper that doesn't have experience.
The jokes (and shocking! cocaine! revelation!) will be old news come November 2008. And anyone who would honestly take umbrage with a man bearing the middle name "Hussein" assuredly wouldn't vote for a non-caucasian, non-GOP member in the first place and should be written off as a member of the Holy Republican Choir.
Also: the naysayers who don't believe that a Black man/minority will never ever ever ever assume the Presidency are short-sighted. Civil-rights precedences are set every day in America; given enough time - albeit perhaps 30+ years as much - it WILL happen. Look at the odds. Look at the percentage of actively voting minorities on a census-by-census basis. Hazard a guess at the ostensibly millions of white Americans (both Rep & Dem) that wouldn't mind voting for a minority for President. We have the precedence of minorities in the House, Senate, Supreme Court, Secretary of State. Hell, I think that it'd be much harder for a white woman than for an African-American man to assume the Presidency.
his accomplishments don't mean shit unless he gets himself a good PR team
Amen. But you know how a well-timed, well-run campaign can negate character flaws and credibility gaps. Honestly, Obama ostensibly doesn't have a ton of shit to dredge up, because you KNOW Alan Keyes and his GOP coffers would've unsealed and revealed it back in 2004. The Tony Rezko issue is probably the most problematic issue for Obama right now, but that might be hard to turn into a sexy anti-Dem campaign ad.
his accomplishments don't mean shit unless he gets himself a good PR team
Amen. But you know how a well-timed, well-run campaign can negate character flaws and credibility gaps. Honestly, Obama ostensibly doesn't have a ton of shit to dredge up, because you KNOW Alan Keyes and his GOP coffers would've unsealed and revealed it back in 2004. The Tony Rezko issue is probably the most problematic issue for Obama right now, but that might be hard to turn into a sexy anti-Dem campaign ad.
True, Keyes was hand picked to take down Obama and failed miserably. However I think it inevitable that a minority will become the president I just don't think it'll happen as soon as 2008 (or 2012 for that matter) Hispanics will soon become the majority in the US and thats when I think we can begin to see some color up in the white house
My WASPy boss definitely doesn't think that a black man, or a woman could be become president, but she also thinks that minimalism and abstraction "failed". Even if Obama doesn't win, the fact that this debate is viable is a good thing.
He needs a PR person??? are you serious? 1. he undoubtedly already has one 2. the best a PR person can do is improve his image with the media, which is already like 'brightest star in the political sky'-type shit.
do you even know what a PR person does?
hopefully make you white.
btw--you're wrong about keyes. he was picked to take the fall and smile for the RNC after mr. 7 of 9 blew it...and their first second choice told them to...
He needs a PR person??? are you serious? 1. he undoubtedly already has one 2. the best a PR person can do is improve his image with the media, which is already like 'brightest star in the political sky'-type shit.
do you even know what a PR person does?
hopefully make you white.
btw--you're wrong about keyes. he was picked to take the fall and smile for the RNC after mr. 7 of 9 blew it...and their first second choice told them to...
Yeah, not even Republicans in need of a Black candidate 'handpick' Keyes to do anything--that dude gets tapped when there's absolutely no alternative left.
He needs a PR person??? are you serious? 1. he undoubtedly already has one 2. the best a PR person can do is improve his image with the media, which is already like 'brightest star in the political sky'-type shit.
do you even know what a PR person does?
hopefully make you white.
btw--you're wrong about keyes. he was picked to take the fall and smile for the RNC after mr. 7 of 9 blew it...and their first second choice told them to...
Yeah, not even Republicans in need of a Black candidate 'handpick' Keyes to do anything--that dude gets tapped when there's absolutely no alternative left.
My WASPy boss definitely doesn't think that a black man, or a woman could be become president, but she also thinks that minimalism and abstraction "failed". Even if Obama doesn't win, the fact that this debate is viable is a good thing.
So my wife is talking to her Fox News watching mom. Mom is ribbing her about Hillery, and N says I'm supporting Baraka Obama. Mom says Who?
I'm kinda with Chris Mathews on the Obama candidacy. Hillary is going to wipe the matt with the junior senator from Illinois. She has a massive war chest, most of the important organizers, pollsters and flacks already locked up due to her relentless fundraising schedule. Plus Bill is sitting around Westchester, plotting how to destroy all comers at this point.
And before everyone starts weeping about how Hillary's unelectable. I am not saying that she should be the nominee, rather I think she will be the nominee.
That said I think that a lot of this depends on the war in Iraq and events on the ground in a year. If shit is still looking real bad as we head into December, I think almost any Dem has a shot, including Hillary.
I'm kinda with Chris Mathews on the Obama candidacy. Hillary is going to wipe the matt with the junior senator from Illinois. She has a massive war chest, most of the important organizers, pollsters and flacks already locked up due to her relentless fundraising schedule. Plus Bill is sitting around Westchester, plotting how to destroy all comers at this point.
And before everyone starts weeping about how Hillary's unelectable. I am not saying that she should be the nominee, rather I think she will be the nominee.
That said I think that a lot of this depends on the war in Iraq and events on the ground in a year. If shit is still looking real bad as we head into December, I think almost any Dem has a shot, including Hillary.
an obama primary upset seems more likely than a Dean upset did last time
Obama is not gonna win because many white, Asian, Hispanic, and South Asian Americans are closet and won't vote for a black man once the curtain closes on the voting booth.
Actually, I would argue that just as many people who hold racist beliefs would still vote for a non-white candidate when the curtain closes.
To believe otherwise would be completely ignorant of the strength of the 2-party process. The amount of people that will vote party line no matter who is put forth accounts for a staggering majority of voters. The amount of voters swayed by campaigning to vote for one party or another is comparitively small but absolutely crucial. They, and probable non-voters who can be swayed to come out and vote for a specific candidate are what will win the election.
Meaning, the number of people of color who would not normally vote but would register to vote for a Black candidate would certainly help offset any otherwise reliable Dem voters who would abstain due to racist beliefs.
My only fear is the spectre of voter supression - if they tried to stop Blacks from voting for Al Gore, what's gonna go down when a Black man is on the ticket?
its silly to argue he's unelectable because of race, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Obama hasn't impressed me with his policies in particular, but you can call me a dirty bay area hippy if that makes you feel better. What's important is that he's a SMART DUDE who knows what he's talking about, and this is vastly underappreciated in modern elections. Not just Bush, cause that's the obvious example, but everywhere. I'm fine with electing average joe to city council, maybe even a state position in a smaller state, but this is national and international politics that has a large impact on the fate of humanity.
Hilary running = terrible for the democratic party, one of the worst democrats out there, and I'm just waiting for her to pull the "female president" card.
McCain = struggle between common sense and the republican party will fuck him over.
Edwards = village idiot with a lot of catchy phrases.
There are a lot of guys who've never been to the country talking like they know how people feel.
If I could identify one thing country folk hate about us city dwellers it's that we always seem to think we know what everyone's thinking and what's right. As a wise TV character said, "you want it to be one way. But it's another way."
I think Obama should run, and I think he's got a decent shot. I'll vote for him.
Comments
Unfortunately, I don't think this election is winnable--which is all the more reason for nominating the best candidate over the most "electable" one.
Winnable or not I say go for the best.
From what I see the "Progressive Left" and the "Religious Right" entertain and appeal to only themselves.
They cancel each other out.
Regardless of party, the 'O8 election will be won on "middle ground"
And as Laserwolf pointed out, this is one of Obama's strengths.....to be able to move people closer together to acheive a solution, rather than separating from each other, which is what the defined left and right are doing now.
The best thing that can happen to America is for it's people to realize that the solutions for our most of our problems often lie in the "middle ground".
Whoah!
I missed that part.
Edwards = ambulance chaser
Obama = senior lecturer at one of the country's premier law schools
Obama has spent his entire working life in public service. Edwards spent 6 years. Obama has many years more experience. To bad teaching doesn't make you a multimillionaire, then you would consider it important.
I agree with you that Edwards is as qualified as Ross Perot +6 years of senate.
the election is still close to 2 years away. by that time people who care to know, will have all the information they need as far as each candidate's position on the issues.
imo, the dems have too much going for them right now to risk it on Obama. aside form his credentials, there is all the bullshit issues with his name and race. so considering that most of the candidates mirror his positions, i dont see why people who truly care about politics are so set on Obama. Is he the best candidate? i dont know yet, but if he is, the other choices don't trail by much. Edwards and Hillary are brilliant, so is Gore. i'd support any of them, but primarily i just want a dem to win.
i do not deny that most people in this country are racist. i will argue that most white people will vote for a black candidate. yeah its nasty, 'obama is one of the good ones' but i think its silly to argue he's unelectable because of race, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
do you even know what a PR person does?
I don't want you to think that I have thrown my support behind Obama. I have not.
I also like Bill Richardson, Mark Warner (I think he has decided not to run) Tom Vilsack. Gore, Clinton and Edwards leave me cold. Sorry.
I don't really care who the best candidate is. Kerry was supposed to be the best candidate.
Edwards fought hard against huge companies who had faulty products that killed kids and shit like that. He's far from the "ambulance chaser" he has been portrayed as.
Obama is not gonna win because many white, Asian, Hispanic, and South Asian Americans are closet
What about Vilsack or Huckabee? Horrible names, seemingly good dudes, if not herbish.
unless he's knocking on the doors of people who aren't watching obama mania on all the major news channels, then he's not doing shit.
the dude's been on the daily show, oprah, larry king, conan, and fucking monday night football.
he's positioned himself incredibly successfully as a centrist, reasonable, common sense guy who seems completely comfortable talking about religion. He's charismatic. He's like the anti-John Kerry
^^^he even apologized for cock-blocking
You are mad. At deej.
The jokes (and shocking! cocaine! revelation!) will be old news come November 2008. And anyone who would honestly take umbrage with a man bearing the middle name "Hussein" assuredly wouldn't vote for a non-caucasian, non-GOP member in the first place and should be written off as a member of the Holy Republican Choir.
Also: the naysayers who don't believe that a Black man/minority will never ever ever ever assume the Presidency are short-sighted. Civil-rights precedences are set every day in America; given enough time - albeit perhaps 30+ years as much - it WILL happen. Look at the odds. Look at the percentage of actively voting minorities on a census-by-census basis. Hazard a guess at the ostensibly millions of white Americans (both Rep & Dem) that wouldn't mind voting for a minority for President. We have the precedence of minorities in the House, Senate, Supreme Court, Secretary of State. Hell, I think that it'd be much harder for a white woman than for an African-American man to assume the Presidency.
Amen. But you know how a well-timed, well-run campaign can negate character flaws and credibility gaps. Honestly, Obama ostensibly doesn't have a ton of shit to dredge up, because you KNOW Alan Keyes and his GOP coffers would've unsealed and revealed it back in 2004. The Tony Rezko issue is probably the most problematic issue for Obama right now, but that might be hard to turn into a sexy anti-Dem campaign ad.
True, Keyes was hand picked to take down Obama and failed miserably. However I think it inevitable that a minority will become the president I just don't think it'll happen as soon as 2008 (or 2012 for that matter) Hispanics will soon become the majority in the US and thats when I think we can begin to see some color up in the white house
hopefully make you white.
btw--you're wrong about keyes. he was picked to take the fall and smile for the RNC after mr. 7 of 9 blew it...and their first second choice told them to...
wait for it...
eat a Ditka.
Yeah, not even Republicans in need of a Black candidate 'handpick' Keyes to do anything--that dude gets tapped when there's absolutely no alternative left.
deej is right. Barak's PR people have the shit on lockdown.
oh, and...
Keyes was even inept at getting sonned on Borat.
So my wife is talking to her Fox News watching mom. Mom is ribbing her about Hillery, and N says I'm supporting Baraka Obama. Mom says Who?
PR People need to keep working.
That's what Pr people un[/b]do.
And before everyone starts weeping about how Hillary's unelectable. I am not saying that she should be the nominee, rather I think she will be the nominee.
That said I think that a lot of this depends on the war in Iraq and events on the ground in a year. If shit is still looking real bad as we head into December, I think almost any Dem has a shot, including Hillary.
Actually, I would argue that just as many people
who hold racist beliefs would still vote for a
non-white candidate when the curtain closes.
To believe otherwise would be completely ignorant
of the strength of the 2-party process. The amount
of people that will vote party line no matter who
is put forth accounts for a staggering majority of
voters. The amount of voters swayed by campaigning
to vote for one party or another is comparitively
small but absolutely crucial. They, and probable non-voters
who can be swayed to come out and vote for a specific candidate
are what will win the election.
Meaning, the number of people of color who would not normally
vote but would register to vote for a Black candidate would
certainly help offset any otherwise reliable Dem voters who
would abstain due to racist beliefs.
My only fear is the spectre of voter supression - if they
tried to stop Blacks from voting for Al Gore, what's gonna
go down when a Black man is on the ticket?
Actually, he lost.
In the first movie at least.
Obama hasn't impressed me with his policies in particular, but you can call me a dirty bay area hippy if that makes you feel better. What's important is that he's a SMART DUDE who knows what he's talking about, and this is vastly underappreciated in modern elections. Not just Bush, cause that's the obvious example, but everywhere. I'm fine with electing average joe to city council, maybe even a state position in a smaller state, but this is national and international politics that has a large impact on the fate of humanity.
Hilary running = terrible for the democratic party, one of the worst democrats out there, and I'm just waiting for her to pull the "female president" card.
McCain = struggle between common sense and the republican party will fuck him over.
Edwards = village idiot with a lot of catchy phrases.
There are a lot of guys who've never been to the country talking like they know how people feel.
If I could identify one thing country folk hate about us city dwellers it's that we always seem to think we know what everyone's thinking and what's right. As a wise TV character said, "you want it to be one way. But it's another way."
I think Obama should run, and I think he's got a decent shot. I'll vote for him.