Classic RAP ALBUMS? (98-06)

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  • deejdeej 5,124 Posts
    ... except you'd replace those with an equal number of equally un-classic records.
    PLAESE TO BE SPECIFIC

    Jeezy, T.I., plenty of classic cash money (B.G., Turk, Juvie, Wayne, even the Hot Boys together ...Wayne's got 3 classic albums at least), some No Limit, certainlty some hypnotized minds records, Jay-Z's Vol.s 2, 3, and Dynasty are arguably classic (I dont know what to think about Blueprint any more) ESG, Z-Ro[/b] and definitely that Paul Wall/Chamillionaire joint archaic is on about, some trick daddy records, [/b]definitely that scarface one everyone likes, missy's 2nd and 3rd albums, pastor troy, ruff ryders vol.s 1 and 2, Quik's Rhythmalism, [/b]Ghostface's Supreme Clientele and Pretty Toney (Fishscale is trash quoth fauxrillz "please be serious") [/b]




    Please be serious indeed.

    You don't think there's any classic No Limit or Cash Money post '98? Seriously? NO classic 3-6 or project pat or gangsta boo? You don't think jay's vol. 3 could be called a classic? Have you even heard a Pastor Troy record? Whats a weak song on Ruff Ryders Vol. 1?

  • deejdeej 5,124 Posts
    PhillMost: "My Headz are Realer than yours"

  • To Tha Xtreme (good but not on Just Trying Ta Live's level)

    Just gotta chime in to say that IMO Just Tryin to Live, apart from being the least Texas-sounding Devin album, is also his worst album.

    And even though I do consider it a recent classic, The Fix is not Scarface's best album either.

    I don't know why so many require Texas rap to be watered down in order to fully appreciate it, but to me the tendency is

    No it's about extending beyond "thorough Texas rap album" and making something that transcends the regional scene/sound. I know that runs counter to all you hold dear but that's what makes something a CLASSIC as opposed to a "regional classic".

    Yeah, if only Khayree would have let Easy Mo Be do a couple of beats and Mac Mall would have passed the mic for at least a few moments to Fat Joe, Illegal Business would have been that much better...

    Your attempt at Berkeley High To Wall Street Smugness is cute, but I still don't know if I would rank Illegal Business in a top 100 rap albums list. It's a filthy record, but I don't know. And I've been bumping that since I was 14 years old... I guess it might be different if I discovered it while writing for a local magazine years after the fact though...



    Just Tryin To Live is a better album than its successor because of Devin, not the production.

  • faux_rillzfaux_rillz 14,343 Posts
    Phill,

    Moment of Truth, to me, is similar to Black Star (though even less so): it seemed a lot bigger than it ended up being. To me, Moment hasn't survived the test of time

    Again, this just tells you how much things (and the people in charge of "what's dope" in hip hop) have changed. I am proudly from what's up with current rap, but Moment Of Truth came out in like the spring of '98 I believe. This was before my 1st child was born, so I was still hanging out with producers, industry folks and "real headz" from all walks of life on a regular basis. I was, basically, in the know and on the scene. GENERAL REAL HEAD CONSENSUS when Moment Of Truth dropped was that this was a great album. The hip hop world has just turned into something else even since 1998, and I think you have a different breed of people who are now the arbiters of what constitutes good, classic or "tepid" hip hop music. Moment Of Truth is not perfect- almost no record is. But it's sure as hell survived the test of time for me. I don't care what anybody says- that record is some of Primo's best and most creative work. I think anybody who truly understands the art of flipping and chopping a record to create an original composition is gonna agree with that sentiment. But, of course, certain individuals are not gonna get it- as always, only

    That may be true, but even back then when I was at the height of my "real head-ed-ness", I would have told you and your old head industry friends that you were tripping.



    I mean I played that album a lot. But it never held a candle to the previous three.

    I was running records back and forth between Fat Beats, Sandbox, Footwork, Beat Street, various recording studios, onestops, and so on and I don't recall anyone talking as glowingly as you are now. I mean, nobody was saying it was wack... but classic?? Plaese to be serious. At The Mall? She Knowz What She Wantz? Duds man. And classic records don't have big ass duds.


    This is all subjective, Jonny... I don't know but I think your 1998 real head experience is quite probably very ... by 1998 I believe we were in the Rawkus era, and the hip hop landscape was already littered with faux real headz at this time. When I talk about real headz it probably isn't even the same thing as what you're talking about. I'm talking about REAL MUTHAFUCKIN' HEADZ, not the people that your generation likes to label as "backpackers". I'm talking about real dudes who made many of the classics that have been discussed in this thread as well as some of the great albums from before 1998. REAL HEADZ, people who REALLY know what it is (or at least what it was

    I'm going to print this out and tape it to my refrigerator.

    I meant real headz, not real headz, stupid!

  • Any by the way- I'll give you "She Know What She Wants", but "At The Mall" wasn't a dud. You soulstrut faux-real headz all may not like it in unison, but that's not enough to make it a dud (except in your own little soulstrut  ).






  • I'm going to print this out and tape it to my refrigerator.

    you have no idea how badly you need to do this

  • BrianBrian 7,618 Posts
    an ex-girl really liked the mall so that was one album that she would actually listen. i dont think she liked when i yelled freddie fox's verse on militia at her though

  • HarveyCanalHarveyCanal "a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts


    Your attempt at Berkeley High To Wall Street Smugness is cute, but I still don't know if I would rank Illegal Business in a top 100 rap albums list. It's a filthy record, but I don't know. And I've been bumping that since I was 14 years old... I guess it might be different if I discovered it while writing for a local magazine years after the fact though...


    Wrong...I bought Illegal Business when it came out and listened to it along with Playaz in tha Game (by the real JT) religiously for years...still do. I also saw Mac Mall perform the brunt of Illegal Business at Glam Slam in LA along with Volume10 during the glorious summer of '94.

    Try again...



  • This is all subjective, Jonny... hella words

    Dogs I am talking about your "real headz", not the Rawkus records staff.

    Who do you think worked at Fat Beats? Amir can tell you lol... I met yoigotbeats at that time actually, in his spot on Atlantic Ave, picking up Raw Shack records for Ed Wong! I played him my demo and got dissed hahaha. Who worked at Buds? Beat Street? Chung King? D&D?? Rap concerts at Tramps? These were places where I was trying to play the fly on the wall and learn the game.

    Moreover, who was on the corners of Creston, University, 183rd, 195th, Jerome, Kingsbridge, Fordham Road... where I was living at the time and where I copped my mixtapes, trees, records, and tried to get old heads like yourself to school a young youth?

    That whole "I know Diamond & Show" might fly with these other poptarts but you can't play me like that fam!






  • deejdeej 5,124 Posts



  • Your attempt at Berkeley High To Wall Street Smugness is cute, but I still don't know if I would rank Illegal Business in a top 100 rap albums list. It's a filthy record, but I don't know. And I've been bumping that since I was 14 years old... I guess it might be different if I discovered it while writing for a local magazine years after the fact though...


    Wrong...I bought Illegal Business when it came out and listened to it along with Playaz in tha Game (by the real JT) religiously for years...still do. I also saw Mac Mall perform the brunt of Illegal Business at Glam Slam in LA along with Volume10 during the glorious summer of '94.

    Try again...

    Just fucking with you Shied.

    I stand by my comments about Devin though...



  • This is all subjective, Jonny... hella words

    Dogs I am talking about your "real headz", not the Rawkus records staff.

    Who do you think worked at Fat Beats? Amir can tell you lol... I met yoigotbeats at that time actually, in his spot on Atlantic Ave, picking up Raw Shack records for Ed Wong! I played him my demo and got dissed hahaha. Who worked at Buds? Beat Street? Chung King? D&D?? Rap concerts at Tramps? These were places where I was trying to play the fly on the wall and learn the game.

    Moreover, who was on the corners of Creston, University, 183rd, 195th, Jerome, Kingsbridge, Fordham Road... where I was living at the time and where I copped my mixtapes, trees, records, and tried to get old heads like yourself to school a young youth?

    That whole "I know Diamond & Show" might fly with these other poptarts but you can't play me like that fam!






    PLEASE TO BE SERIOUS. Leave the name / street corner dropping to The Game, willya? This show of "realness" does not faze me. I heard a recent internet interview you gave, Jonny... that was the real you. I am not impressed until you show me your penitentiary tats and buck 50 scars

  • magneticmagnetic 2,678 Posts


    This is all subjective, Jonny... hella words

    Dogs I am talking about your "real headz", not the Rawkus records staff.

    Who do you think worked at Fat Beats? Amir can tell you lol... I met yoigotbeats at that time actually, in his spot on Atlantic Ave, picking up Raw Shack records for Ed Wong! I played him my demo and got dissed hahaha. Who worked at Buds? Beat Street? Chung King? D&D?? Rap concerts at Tramps? These were places where I was trying to play the fly on the wall and learn the game.

    Moreover, who was on the corners of Creston, University, 183rd, 195th, Jerome, Kingsbridge, Fordham Road... where I was living at the time and where I copped my mixtapes, trees, records, and tried to get old heads like yourself to school a young youth?

    That whole "I know Diamond & Show" might fly with these other poptarts but you can't play me like that fam!






    Jonny you know credentials being dropped = a nerve being touched

  • faux_rillzfaux_rillz 14,343 Posts

    I'm going to print this out and tape it to my refrigerator.

    you have no idea how badly you need to do this

    It's like that?

    Real Headz = already obsololete by 1998



  • This is all subjective, Jonny... hella words

    Dogs I am talking about your "real headz", not the Rawkus records staff.

    Who do you think worked at Fat Beats? Amir can tell you lol... I met yoigotbeats at that time actually, in his spot on Atlantic Ave, picking up Raw Shack records for Ed Wong! I played him my demo and got dissed hahaha. Who worked at Buds? Beat Street? Chung King? D&D?? Rap concerts at Tramps? These were places where I was trying to play the fly on the wall and learn the game.

    Moreover, who was on the corners of Creston, University, 183rd, 195th, Jerome, Kingsbridge, Fordham Road... where I was living at the time and where I copped my mixtapes, trees, records, and tried to get old heads like yourself to school a young youth?

    That whole "I know Diamond & Show" might fly with these other poptarts but you can't play me like that fam!






    PLEASE TO BE SERIOUS. Leave the name / street corner dropping to The Game, willya? This show of "realness" does not faze me. I heard a recent internet interview you gave, Jonny... that was the real you. I am not impressed until you show me your penitentiary tats and buck 50 scars

    SON, I am so 100 with you right now. I have smoked blunts with your heroes and run the streets from Van Siclen to Convent!

    In all seriousness though Phill this is just to say that I was hearing from the same people you are referencing and it doesn't change my opinion of that particular record. Shit, at the time of that record I recall buying nicks uptown and dudes at the spot were playing TUPAC. So PLEASE to not be misleading these impressionable youths about these mythical "REAL HEADZ".







  • SLurgSLurg 446 Posts


    This is all subjective, Jonny... hella words

    Dogs I am talking about your "real headz", not the Rawkus records staff.

    Who do you think worked at Fat Beats? Amir can tell you lol... I met yoigotbeats at that time actually, in his spot on Atlantic Ave, picking up Raw Shack records for Ed Wong! I played him my demo and got dissed hahaha. Who worked at Buds? Beat Street? Chung King? D&D?? Rap concerts at Tramps? These were places where I was trying to play the fly on the wall and learn the game.

    Moreover, who was on the corners of Creston, University, 183rd, 195th, Jerome, Kingsbridge, Fordham Road... where I was living at the time and where I copped my mixtapes, trees, records, and tried to get old heads like yourself to school a young youth?

    That whole "I know Diamond & Show" might fly with these other poptarts but you can't play me like that fam!






    PLEASE TO BE SERIOUS. Leave the name / street corner dropping to The Game, willya? This show of "realness" does not faze me. I heard a recent internet interview you gave, Jonny... that was the real you. I am not impressed until you show me your penitentiary tats and buck 50 scars

    SON, I am so 100 with you right now. I have smoked blunts with your heroes and run the streets from Van Siclen to Convent!

    In all seriousness though Phill this is just to say that I was hearing from the same people you are referencing and it doesn't change my opinion of that particular record. Shit, at the time of that record I recall buying nicks uptown and dudes at the spot were playing TUPAC. So PLEASE to not be misleading these impressionable youths about these mythical "REAL HEADZ".







    Can someone call Afrika Bambaataa and Kool Herc, so we know if Moment Of Truth is a classic or not ? Because this is getting ridiculous now.

  • mannybolonemannybolone 15,029 Posts
    Are either We Can't Be Stopped or Ridin Dirty in your book?

    The former is. The latter was on the short list before we made final selections. You might be interested to know that the main person lobbying to write about UGK was Jon Caramanica.

    I recognize that I pester you quite a bit on this note, but in many ways from what I've seen at least, it seems that you are still as guilty of doing such a thing today as you were a decade ago. Nowadays though, instead of depending on NYC approval, it seems that you have shifted things slightly to depend on corporate industry approval. You'll write about Kanye West from Chicago or the Neptunes from Virginia or Outkast from Atlanta...but I still haven't seen you give much attention to a San Quinn or a CVE or a Z-Ro who in my opinion often (if not always) make music every bit as rewarding as that being made by major label icons. Even if you wound up publicly dissing projects from such artists, at least you would be recognizing their existence.

    You have a very insistent notion on obligations/duties writers owe re: their subject matter. To wit:

    To me, and to a certain extent it's always been like this for me, I put a whole lot more stock in helping cultivate a locale of as much of its underepresented talent as possible.

    Every writer has their motivation. I respect that immensely.

    Personally, as a journalist/writer/critic/whatever, if I can contribute to that "cultivation of a locale", it's a bonus but it's not my raison d'etre. I didn't get into writing to strictly be an advocate. I write because, on a very basic level, I love writing. I love the craft and challenge that comes with trying to articulate ideas and feelings that aren't always easy to articulate.

    If you have a different sense of purpose, that's cool: do you. At the end of the day, I'm not trying to stop you from getting your checks or bylines. I've never understood why my hustle ever mattered to you except that I don't seem to follow your book of rap writing rules.

    It also might surprise you to learn that the vast bulk of my scholarly work is focused on local scenes, including my entire dissertation. But what motivates me as a scholar is not necessarily what pulls me towards a keyboard in the morning.

    I don't need a few years to decide whether Trae's Restless is a classic.

    My point was that time is the best judge. I'm not sure how that's "pompous." It's certainly no diss on Trae or anyone else's album that dropped this year that people already want to enshrine in a canon.



  • This is all subjective, Jonny... hella words

    Dogs I am talking about your "real headz", not the Rawkus records staff.

    Who do you think worked at Fat Beats? Amir can tell you lol... I met yoigotbeats at that time actually, in his spot on Atlantic Ave, picking up Raw Shack records for Ed Wong! I played him my demo and got dissed hahaha. Who worked at Buds? Beat Street? Chung King? D&D?? Rap concerts at Tramps? These were places where I was trying to play the fly on the wall and learn the game.

    Moreover, who was on the corners of Creston, University, 183rd, 195th, Jerome, Kingsbridge, Fordham Road... where I was living at the time and where I copped my mixtapes, trees, records, and tried to get old heads like yourself to school a young youth?

    That whole "I know Diamond & Show" might fly with these other poptarts but you can't play me like that fam!






    PLEASE TO BE SERIOUS. Leave the name / street corner dropping to The Game, willya? This show of "realness" does not faze me. I heard a recent internet interview you gave, Jonny... that was the real you. I am not impressed until you show me your penitentiary tats and buck 50 scars

    SON, I am so 100 with you right now. I have smoked blunts with your heroes and run the streets from Van Siclen to Convent!

    In all seriousness though Phill this is just to say that I was hearing from the same people you are referencing and it doesn't change my opinion of that particular record. Shit, at the time of that record I recall buying nicks uptown and dudes at the spot were playing TUPAC. So PLEASE to not be misleading these impressionable youths about these mythical "REAL HEADZ".







    Can someone call Afrika Bambaataa and Kool Herc, so we know if Moment Of Truth is a classic or not ? Because this is getting ridiculous now.

    I think it's more important what a guy in France thinks


  • I'm going to print this out and tape it to my refrigerator.

    you have no idea how badly you need to do this

    It's like that?

    Real Headz = already obsololete by 1998

    nah, we were still hanging on by a slim thread when moment of truth dropped. you know as well as I do, faux (well, not nearly as well as i do, but you know)... real headz have ALWAYS been the minority, and by a wide margin. From Kool Herc until this very moment. Doesn't matter what year pop tarts such as yourself deemed us as "obsololete", whatever that means (yes, i can be a petulant fool who clowns people for their typos just like you do, faux! )


    REAL IZ STILL REAL, AND I DON'T MEAN "FAUX"-REAL. STUDY ME NOW

  • SON, I am so 100 with you right now. I have smoked blunts with your heroes and run the streets from Van Siclen to Convent!

    BTW, young / old JP, the people you are calling my heroes are really my peers, or in some cases I am THEIR hero in some ways. Just to get it straight, son... know your hidden hip hop history.

  • BurnsBurns 2,227 Posts
    SON, I am so 100 with you right now. I have smoked blunts with your heroes and run the streets from Van Siclen to Convent!

    BTW, young / old JP, the people you are calling my heroes are really my peers, or in some cases I am THEIR hero in some ways. Just to get it straight, son... know your hidden hip hop history.


    I liked to know your ultimate top 5. 



  • This is a joke right?

    You mean you don't know about Vitamin D production yet?
    He's off tha chain with it

    The record may not be "hard" but it's def a classic.


  • I liked to know your ultimate top 5. 



    My ultimate top 5 classic rap albums from 98 to 06??? Honestly, I have no desire to thoroughly look at all of the rap albums that have come out during that period. Very few in my eyes would be classic, but I have no problem at all with people thinking that something like the Trae album is a classic rap album- this because rap today is a totally different animule than it was when I cared about it, so judging the rap albums of this era is for other people, not for me. I have no opinion one way or the other about the greatness of stuff like the Trae album (or almost any other recently relevant rap album).

    That said, just off the top of my head, I would personally consider these '98 - '06 albums classic (from a real schitt perspective, of course):

    Ghostface - Supreme Clientele (none of his others from this period)
    MF Doom - Operation Doomsday (possibly also Madvillian but I'm not so sure about that)
    Gangstarr - Moment Of Truth
    Bumpy Knuckles - Industry Shakedown ("classic" may not be the correct word for this, lord knows it'll be scoffed at by the soulstrut illuminati... but i enjoyed this album as much as I enjoyed many of the certified classics from the golden age of rap)
    De La Soul - The Grind Date (see Bumpy Knuckles)
    Jay-Z - The Blueprint


    Obviously there are many non-real schitt and / or southern rap albums that you dudes consider classics... I have no problem with that. Those records, as I've said previously, just are not for a real schitter like me to judge. It would be like me judging a house record or a reggaeton record- it's not my kind of music. If it's not THAT REAL SCHITT ain't no need for me to even sit up here and critique it. Some of you non-real schitters need to be as respectful as I am and shut up about music you really don't even understand (i.e., THAT REAL SCHITT ). Har har...

    had enough yet, batches?

  • BurnsBurns 2,227 Posts

    I liked to know your ultimate top 5. 

    My ultimate top 5 classic rap albums from 98 to 06??? Honestly, I have no desire to thoroughly look at all of the rap albums that have come out during that period. Very few in my eyes would be classic, but I have no problem at all with people thinking that something like the Trae album is a classic rap album- this because rap today is a totally different animule than it was when I cared about it, so judging the rap albums of this era is for other people, not for me. I have no opinion one way or the other about the greatness of stuff like the Trae album (or almost any other recently relevant rap album).

    That said, just off the top of my head, I would personally consider these '98 - '06 albums classic (from a real schitt perspective, of course):

    Ghostface - Supreme Clientele (none of his others from this period)
    MF Doom - Operation Doomsday (possibly also Madvillian but I'm not so sure about that)
    Gangstarr - Moment Of Truth
    Bumpy Knuckles - Industry Shakedown ("classic" may not be the correct word for this, lord knows it'll be scoffed at by the soulstrut illuminati... but i enjoyed this album as much as I enjoyed many of the certified classics from the golden age of rap)
    De La Soul - The Grind Date (see Bumpy Knuckles)
    Jay-Z - The Blueprint


    Obviously there are many non-real schitt and / or southern rap albums that you dudes consider classics... I have no problem with that. Those records, as I've said previously, just are not for a real schitter like me to judge. It would be like me judging a house record or a reggaeton record- it's not my kind of music. If it's not THAT REAL SCHITT ain't no need for me to even sit up here and critique it. Some of you non-real schitters need to be as respectful as I am and shut up about music you really don't even understand (i.e., THAT REAL SCHITT ). Har har...

    had enough yet, batches?

    I agree with you in all you say.
    I can't even come up with a top 5 for 98-06';
    Aquemini - OUTKAST...mind goes blank, only singles I can think of.

  • BurnsBurns 2,227 Posts

    I liked to know your ultimate top 5.

    My ultimate top 5 classic rap albums from 98 to 06??? Honestly, I have no desire to thoroughly look at all of the rap albums that have come out during that period. Very few in my eyes would be classic, but I have no problem at all with people thinking that something like the Trae album is a classic rap album- this because rap today is a totally different animule than it was when I cared about it, so judging the rap albums of this era is for other people, not for me. I have no opinion one way or the other about the greatness of stuff like the Trae album (or almost any other recently relevant rap album).

    That said, just off the top of my head, I would personally consider these '98 - '06 albums classic (from a real schitt perspective, of course):

    Ghostface - Supreme Clientele (none of his others from this period)
    MF Doom - Operation Doomsday (possibly also Madvillian but I'm not so sure about that)
    Gangstarr - Moment Of Truth
    Bumpy Knuckles - Industry Shakedown ("classic" may not be the correct word for this, lord knows it'll be scoffed at by the soulstrut illuminati... but i enjoyed this album as much as I enjoyed many of the certified classics from the golden age of rap)
    De La Soul - The Grind Date (see Bumpy Knuckles)
    Jay-Z - The Blueprint


    Obviously there are many non-real schitt and / or southern rap albums that you dudes consider classics... I have no problem with that. Those records, as I've said previously, just are not for a real schitter like me to judge. It would be like me judging a house record or a reggaeton record- it's not my kind of music. If it's not THAT REAL SCHITT ain't no need for me to even sit up here and critique it. Some of you non-real schitters need to be as respectful as I am and shut up about music you really don't even understand (i.e., THAT REAL SCHITT ). Har har...

    had enough yet, batches?

    I agree with everything you say, i can't come up with a f'n list from 98'-06,
    1. Aquemini - OUTKAST
    2.
    3.
    4.
    5.

  • BrianBrian 7,618 Posts
    i seriously would have to say that if you cannot think of 5 albums you consider classic from this time period or at least albums you really really enjoy on some classic private mind garden status, you really need to expand your taste in rap

  • DJ_EnkiDJ_Enki 6,471 Posts
    All your RealHeadz are belong to PhillMost

    Sorry, sorry...I just had to.

  • faux_rillzfaux_rillz 14,343 Posts
    animule

    Get your spelling game up.

  • animule

    Get your spelling game up.

    "Animule" is a very old term, faux (plaese to refrain from the "old" jokes as a response to this knowledge I'm dropping on your birthday cake hatted head- it would not be a fresh move to bust, i assure you). I don't need to get my spelling game up, you need to get your Google game up. You'll learn what it really is one day. Then again, you probably won't.

  • noznoz 3,625 Posts
    You're down and out, money funny, you hustle and die
    On the verge of pawnin your jewelry and sellin your ride
    Somebody shoulda told him ain't no life in these streets
    You only out here 'til you touch it, when you touch it you eat
    N****s done took too many chances shovelin snow
    And ended up facin a lifetime for tryin to scope
    I'm givin livin definitions on the subject of dope
    One week he back on his feet, the next he's WHOA
    I was a 70's baby, raised in the 80's
    I was barely touchin 16 when shit got crazy
    I remember in the 80's, me and pop would ride
    Now we conversate on acres we's about to buy
    He had already been what I'm about to go through
    Told me ain't no sense in gamblin if you gamble to lose
    If you made twelve dollars, you put seven away
    and lived off the five, and never ever fuck with ya safe

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