Classic RAP ALBUMS? (98-06)

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  • mannybolonemannybolone 15,029 Posts
    I was going to start by saying there's a lot of incredibly bad looks in this thread but I also think that it reflects how divided hip-hop's various sub-genres have become since the mid-90s.

    That said, a lot of people's definition of "classics" is real .

    I didn't realize that "half-way competent" is now the new standard for "classic."
    let's see some albums

    Albums listed that I'd co-sign on without blinking:

    Scarface: The Fix
    Clipse: Lord Willin
    Quasimoto: The Unseen
    Ghostface: Supreme Clientele
    Outkast: Stankonia + Speakerboxxx/Love Below
    Jay-Z: Blueprint + The Black Album

    Somewhere, a T.I. and Lil Wayne album should appear too though I'm not decided which ones.

    The list of albums that should not be under consideration is too long to list.

  • HAZHAZ 3,373 Posts
    I was going to start by saying there's a lot of incredibly bad looks in this thread but I also think that it reflects how divided hip-hop's various sub-genres have become since the mid-90s.

    That said, a lot of people's definition of "classics" is real .

    I didn't realize that "half-way competent" is now the new standard for "classic."
    let's see some albums

    Albums listed that I'd co-sign on without blinking:

    Scarface: The Fix
    Clipse: Lord Willin
    Quasimoto: The Unseen
    Ghostface: Supreme Clientele
    Outkast: Stankonia + Speakerboxxx/Love Below
    Jay-Z: Blueprint + The Black Album

    Somewhere, a T.I. and Lil Wayne album should appear too though I'm not decided which ones.

    The list of albums that should not be under consideration is too long to list.

    Not the 2nd Quas? No MF Doom? What about the latest wave of Texas rap? I would think those acts would deserve mention.

    peace

    h

  • It is basically unimaginable to me that only one person has mentioned Gangstarr's "Moment Of Truth" lp in this thread. Guess it just shows you how much times have changed since 1998.

  • faux_rillzfaux_rillz 14,343 Posts
    Gangstarr's "Moment Of Truth" lp in this thread.

    tepid

  • It is basically unimaginable to me that only one person has mentioned Gangstarr's "Moment Of Truth" lp in this thread. Guess it just shows you how much times have changed since 1998.

    Damn I totally forgot about this album. Personally I gotta roll with

    Gangstarr "Moment of Truth"
    SV "Fantastic Vol 1&2"
    Ghostface "Supreme Clientele"
    Reflection Eternal
    Jay Z "Blueprint" (maybe even The Dynasty too, very underrated album)
    50 Cent "Get Rich or Die Tryin"
    Dre "2001"

    There are a lotta albums I like 4-6 songs on from this time period but can't call those classics.

  • HarveyCanalHarveyCanal "a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
    I was going to start by saying there's a lot of incredibly bad looks in this thread but I also think that it reflects how divided hip-hop's various sub-genres have become since the mid-90s.

    That said, a lot of people's definition of "classics" is real .

    I didn't realize that "half-way competent" is now the new standard for "classic."
    let's see some albums

    Albums listed that I'd co-sign on without blinking:

    Scarface: The Fix
    Clipse: Lord Willin
    Quasimoto: The Unseen
    Ghostface: Supreme Clientele
    Outkast: Stankonia + Speakerboxxx/Love Below
    Jay-Z: Blueprint + The Black Album

    Somewhere, a T.I. and Lil Wayne album should appear too though I'm not decided which ones.

    The list of albums that should not be under consideration is too long to list.

    "Classic" is far too open for interpretation.

    But aside from people just naming their own personal mindgarden favorites, that's a good thing.

    Why? Because too many try to take a nationwide consensus approach to what constitutes a classic and in the end, it waters things down waaaaay too far.

    Looking at what you cosigned as classics above...I can tell you that the most dedicated of rap fans here in Texas most likely don't consider any of those as classics...even The Fix.

    The average everyday fan doesn't necessarily share the journalist's drive to build such a broad-sweeping consensus. He just knows what he likes and what his neighbors like and basically bases his opinions on that.

    For someone to say that just about any given Z-Ro or Trae album isn't a classic to a Texas rap fan would be a joke of magnanimous proportions. Who cares if noone in NYC and LA concurs? When you play songs like Mo City Don or Swang for an audience down here, you would lose your mind to see the reaction they get.

    In other words, regionalism is something that should be celebrated rather than neglected.

  • mannybolonemannybolone 15,029 Posts
    Phill,

    Moment of Truth, to me, is similar to Black Star (though even less so): it seemed a lot bigger than it ended up being. To me, Moment hasn't survived the test of time and Black Star (despite it's inclusion in my own book) feels more anachronistic than I would have imagined.

    Btw, I'm all for Texas rap but off the top of my head, I wouldn't make an argument for which cds yet. I can't see how people are already including 2005 cds. A classic is based on time, not just quality or hype.

  • HarveyCanalHarveyCanal "a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts


    Btw, I'm all for Texas rap but off the top of my head, I wouldn't make an argument for which cds yet. I can't see how people are already including 2005 cds. A classic is based on time, not just quality or hype.

    By this time, it should be considered an embarrassment for anyone who considers himself an opinion leader when it comes to rap music to not without a shred of hesitation peg Paul Wall & Chamillionaire's Get Ya Mind Correct, an album that came out in 2002, as a classic.

  • It is basically unimaginable to me that only one person has mentioned Gangstarr's "Moment Of Truth" lp in this thread. Guess it just shows you how much times have changed since 1998.


    Cosign... I thought this was cool when it dropped but have continually revisited it and its definately solid work. Premo's beats are off the hook on it.

  • mannybolonemannybolone 15,029 Posts


    Btw, I'm all for Texas rap but off the top of my head, I wouldn't make an argument for which cds yet. I can't see how people are already including 2005 cds. A classic is based on time, not just quality or hype.

    By this time, it should be considered an embarrassment for anyone who considers himself an opinion leader when it comes to rap music to not without a shred of hesitation peg Paul Wall & Chamillionaire's Get Ya Mind Correct, an album that came out in 2002, as a classic.

    That's fine but at least it didn't come out last year.

  • BeekBeek 146 Posts
    I'd say a lot of you are too quick to call some of these albums classic... But whatever. Here's my list:

    Common - Like Water For Chocolate
    Quasimoto - The Unseen
    Jay-Z - The Blueprint
    Dilla - Welcome 2 Detroit
    Ghostface - Supreme Clientele

    I'd say maybe to the Operation Doomsday, Clipse, and Slum Village albums.

  • mannybolonemannybolone 15,029 Posts


    For someone to say that just about any given Z-Ro or Trae album isn't a classic to a Texas rap fan would be a joke of magnanimous proportions. Who cares if noone in NYC and LA concurs? When you play songs like Mo City Don or Swang for an audience down here, you would lose your mind to see the reaction they get.

    In other words, regionalism is something that should be celebrated rather than neglected.

    I'm not debating that point. The albums that I didn't think should be on that list were not so much the geographically regional titles but rather the outmoded "underground" regionalism that continues to cling onto a belief that there's any kind of populist impulse to celebrate, say, Dilated Peoples.

    When I was talking about the splintering of hip-hop into sub-genres where now, some of the parts seem to be bigger than the whole, I'm talking exactly about what you're referring to. A regional classic presumes that there is some kind of critical mass consensus but in the case of a lot of so-called underground albums, that critical mass is so geographically dispersed (not to mention likely low in numbers) that it's much harder to make the case to call 'em "classics."

    In any case, I think there's a very good argument to be made that, since 1998, regional rap has become more meaningful than those still aspiring for some kind of national relevance. I don't think we've reached the point where national popularity doesn't exist (though sales numbers have slumped badly for most) but I think we might actually both agree that regional hits will have a greater longevity than most national contenders.

  • Moment Of Truth? Dag... if that's classic what are the other gangstarr records? Classic-er? I can't fuck with that record much. The beats are dope, but Guru is already past his prime and there are too many duds on that record for me to call it classic.

    The Fix
    Lord Willin
    Get Ya Mind Correct
    Quasimoto
    Supreme Clientele
    Street Novelist
    2001
    The Blueprint
    Operation: Doomsday
    Purple Haze
    400 Degreez
    Just Tryin To Live
    Aquemini
    Fantastic Vol 2
    Donuts
    Get Rich Or Die Tryin

    I would cosign these. Anyone talking any other mess is wrong.

  • deejdeej 5,124 Posts
    I've got nothing against backpack rap! I'd say Doomsday is a classic, LWFC is a classic or near that, probably some of my favorite Dilla beats ever on that one...I can't believe there's even a question in some people's mind about Trap Muzik though.

    Purple Haze is getting way overrated, the only track i still listen to off that is "Adrenaline" and that was actually made my twista 10 yrs ago.


  • Purple Haze is getting way overrated, the only track i still listen to off that is "Adrenaline" and that was actually made my twista 10 yrs ago.

    Luckily for Cam'Ron, nobody really cares what you still listen to.


  • piedpiperpiedpiper 1,274 Posts
    a list of 100 classic rap records

    What are some "Classic" records from 99'-06?

    What should be the share of 99-06 stuff in a top 100 rap LP list?
    I would say 5-10 and not more.
    A lot of stuff mentioned here is well done or may be considered to be a good Hip-Hop LP, but is not worth to be included in a top 100 list.


    BTW, I think it would be great to hear some reasons for the various contributions, because one may understand in a better way why the stuff is mentioned.

    I.E. I mentioned "Black on both sides" earlier in this thread, because this LP includes versatile and very creative stuff, is the best rap LP from 99 IMO, somehow redefined the native tongue, includes smash hit "ms fat booty", still sounds fresh today aso. I would also say that this LP is better than Black Star and although Black Star is a good album, it??s not a top 100 joint.

    Also, i.e. there has to be some Jay Z stuff in a top 100 list, but I would say it??s sufficient to include reasonable doubt, because that was his "take-off" joint and he did not add a lot afterwards, although the following stuff was still quality.

  • deejdeej 5,124 Posts
    Jeezy, T.I., plenty of classic cash money (B.G., Turk, Juvie, Wayne, even the Hot Boys together ... Wayne's got 3 classic albums at least), some No Limit, certainlty some hypnotized minds records, Jay-Z's Vol.s 2, 3, and Dynasty are arguably classic (I dont know what to think about Blueprint any more) ESG, Z-Ro and definitely that Paul Wall/Chamillionaire joint archaic is on about, some trick daddy records, definitely that scarface one everyone likes, missy's 2nd and 3rd albums, pastor troy, ruff ryders vol.s 1 and 2, Quik's Rhythmalism, Ghostface's Supreme Clientele and Pretty Toney (Fishscale is trash quoth fauxrillz "please be serious") I donno there have been tons of albums, backpacker, southern, west coast, east coast and otherwise since '98. Anyone who thinks early 90s 'classics' were any less flawed is tripping. People will whitewash over 'filler' because they just love the dusty early 90s premo sample aesthetic more than they actually love the songs, where they hate modern production aesthetics so they see 'flaws' in any track that isn't a banger.

  • deejdeej 5,124 Posts

    Purple Haze is getting way overrated, the only track i still listen to off that is "Adrenaline" and that was actually made my twista 10 yrs ago.

    Luckily for Cam'Ron, nobody really cares what you still listen to.

    judging by sales, he should

  • Jeezy, T.I., plenty of classic cash money (B.G., Turk, Juvie, Wayne, even the Hot Boys together ... Wayne's got 3 classic albums at least), some No Limit, certainlty some hypnotized minds records, Jay-Z's Vol.s 2, 3, and Dynasty are arguably classic (I dont know what to think about Blueprint any more) ESG, Z-Ro and definitely that Paul Wall/Chamillionaire joint archaic is on about, some trick daddy records, definitely that scarface one everyone likes, missy's 2nd and 3rd albums, pastor troy, ruff ryders vol.s 1 and 2, Quik's Rhythmalism, I donno there have been tons of albums, backpacker, southern, west coast, east coast and otherwise since '98. Anyone who thinks early 90s 'classics' were any less flawed is tripping. People will whitewash over 'filler' because they just love the dusty early 90s premo sample aesthetic more than they actually love the songs, where they hate modern production aesthetics so they see 'flaws' in any track that isn't a banger.

    Plaese be serious.


    Are you a blogguerre?

  • deejdeej 5,124 Posts
    Jeezy, T.I., plenty of classic cash money (B.G., Turk, Juvie, Wayne, even the Hot Boys together ... Wayne's got 3 classic albums at least), some No Limit, certainlty some hypnotized minds records, Jay-Z's Vol.s 2, 3, and Dynasty are arguably classic (I dont know what to think about Blueprint any more) ESG, Z-Ro and definitely that Paul Wall/Chamillionaire joint archaic is on about, some trick daddy records, definitely that scarface one everyone likes, missy's 2nd and 3rd albums, pastor troy, ruff ryders vol.s 1 and 2, Quik's Rhythmalism, I donno there have been tons of albums, backpacker, southern, west coast, east coast and otherwise since '98. Anyone who thinks early 90s 'classics' were any less flawed is tripping. People will whitewash over 'filler' because they just love the dusty early 90s premo sample aesthetic more than they actually love the songs, where they hate modern production aesthetics so they see 'flaws' in any track that isn't a banger.

    Plaese be serious.
    Please be specific

  • HarveyCanalHarveyCanal "a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts


    For someone to say that just about any given Z-Ro or Trae album isn't a classic to a Texas rap fan would be a joke of magnanimous proportions. Who cares if noone in NYC and LA concurs? When you play songs like Mo City Don or Swang for an audience down here, you would lose your mind to see the reaction they get.

    In other words, regionalism is something that should be celebrated rather than neglected.

    I'm not debating that point. The albums that I didn't think should be on that list were not so much the geographically regional titles but rather the outmoded "underground" regionalism that continues to cling onto a belief that there's any kind of populist impulse to celebrate, say, Dilated Peoples.

    When I was talking about the splintering of hip-hop into sub-genres where now, some of the parts seem to be bigger than the whole, I'm talking exactly about what you're referring to. A regional classic presumes that there is some kind of critical mass consensus but in the case of a lot of so-called underground albums, that critical mass is so geographically dispersed (not to mention likely low in numbers) that it's much harder to make the case to call 'em "classics."

    In any case, I think there's a very good argument to be made that, since 1998, regional rap has become more meaningful than those still aspiring for some kind of national relevance. I don't think we've reached the point where national popularity doesn't exist (though sales numbers have slumped badly for most) but I think we might actually both agree that regional hits will have a greater longevity than most national contenders.

    I don't see it so much as a splintering than as an indication that many weren't down with the real schitt to begin with.

    That's not to say that NYC-centric boom bap wasn't for a long time the real schitt as well, but I'm suddenly wondering if the Geto Boys' We Can't Be Stopped and UGK's Ridin Dirty made the cut by being included in your book.

  • Phill,

    Moment of Truth, to me, is similar to Black Star (though even less so): it seemed a lot bigger than it ended up being. To me, Moment hasn't survived the test of time

    Again, this just tells you how much things (and the people in charge of "what's dope" in hip hop) have changed. I am proudly from what's up with current rap, but Moment Of Truth came out in like the spring of '98 I believe. This was before my 1st child was born, so I was still hanging out with producers, industry folks and "real headz" from all walks of life on a regular basis. I was, basically, in the know and on the scene. GENERAL REAL HEAD CONSENSUS when Moment Of Truth dropped was that this was a great album. The hip hop world has just turned into something else even since 1998, and I think you have a different breed of people who are now the arbiters of what constitutes good, classic or "tepid" hip hop music. Moment Of Truth is not perfect- almost no record is. But it's sure as hell survived the test of time for me. I don't care what anybody says- that record is some of Primo's best and most creative work. I think anybody who truly understands the art of flipping and chopping a record to create an original composition is gonna agree with that sentiment. But, of course, certain individuals are not gonna get it- as always, only


    And btw, I wouldn't call the BlackStar album a classic. I ain't mad at it, but just not a classic.

  • Jeezy, T.I., plenty of classic cash money (B.G., Turk, Juvie, Wayne, even the Hot Boys together ... Wayne's got 3 classic albums at least), some No Limit, certainlty some hypnotized minds records, Jay-Z's Vol.s 2, 3, and Dynasty are arguably classic (I dont know what to think about Blueprint any more) ESG, Z-Ro and definitely that Paul Wall/Chamillionaire joint archaic is on about, some trick daddy records, definitely that scarface one everyone likes, missy's 2nd and 3rd albums, pastor troy, ruff ryders vol.s 1 and 2, Quik's Rhythmalism, Ghostface's Supreme Clientele and Pretty Toney (Fishscale is trash quoth fauxrillz "please be serious") I donno there have been tons of albums, backpacker, southern, west coast, east coast and otherwise since '98. Anyone who thinks early 90s 'classics' were any less flawed is tripping. People will whitewash over 'filler' because they just love the dusty early 90s premo sample aesthetic more than they actually love the songs, where they hate modern production aesthetics so they see 'flaws' in any track that isn't a banger.

    Name the 3 "classic" Lil Wayne albums. Name the classic Trick Daddy albums.

  • jimeyjimey 279 Posts


  • deejdeej 5,124 Posts
    Jeezy, T.I., plenty of classic cash money (B.G., Turk, Juvie, Wayne, even the Hot Boys together ... Wayne's got 3 classic albums at least), some No Limit, certainlty some hypnotized minds records, Jay-Z's Vol.s 2, 3, and Dynasty are arguably classic (I dont know what to think about Blueprint any more) ESG, Z-Ro and definitely that Paul Wall/Chamillionaire joint archaic is on about, some trick daddy records, definitely that scarface one everyone likes, missy's 2nd and 3rd albums, pastor troy, ruff ryders vol.s 1 and 2, Quik's Rhythmalism, Ghostface's Supreme Clientele and Pretty Toney (Fishscale is trash quoth fauxrillz "please be serious") I donno there have been tons of albums, backpacker, southern, west coast, east coast and otherwise since '98. Anyone who thinks early 90s 'classics' were any less flawed is tripping. People will whitewash over 'filler' because they just love the dusty early 90s premo sample aesthetic more than they actually love the songs, where they hate modern production aesthetics so they see 'flaws' in any track that isn't a banger.

    Name the 3 "classic" Lil Wayne albums. Name the classic Trick Daddy albums.
    500 Degreez, Carter, Carter II (I think Carter is the best of all three)
    Classic Trick Daddy = Book of Thugs and Thug Holiday, w/ reasonable arguments for Thugs Are Us and Thug Matrimony being pretty fucking good.

    I think Moment of Truth is pretty great actually. Hard to Earn is still the best thing they ever did in my mind though.

    I should pull out that Black Star album again soon. I think I might find some tracks TEPID but Definition or ReDefinition or whichever one jacked the BDP beat was dope, so was the joint with Common and Thieves in the Night. That Children's Story jack was terrible as a Puffy diss, and terribly hypocritical considering dudes jacked a BDP beat themselves.

  • CraigCraig 269 Posts
    i would have to give these a well deserved mention-

    edan - primative plus
    edan - beauty and the beat
    danger doom
    mf doom - mf food
    mad villain



  • I should pull out that Black Star album again soon. I think I might find some tracks TEPID but Definition or ReDefinition or whichever one jacked the BDP beat was dope, so was the joint with Common and Thieves in the Night. That Children's Story jack was terrible as a Puffy diss, and terribly hypocritical considering dudes jacked a BDP beat themselves.

    I gave this a listen a couple of weeks ago, and it has not aged well. I skipped most of the tracks.

  • DJ_EnkiDJ_Enki 6,471 Posts
    I didn't realize that "half-way competent" is now the new standard for "classic."

    Man, it's been that way for years. At this point, the calculus is more like "I like this album" = "classic album."

  • Phill,

    Moment of Truth, to me, is similar to Black Star (though even less so): it seemed a lot bigger than it ended up being. To me, Moment hasn't survived the test of time

    Again, this just tells you how much things (and the people in charge of "what's dope" in hip hop) have changed. I am proudly from what's up with current rap, but Moment Of Truth came out in like the spring of '98 I believe. This was before my 1st child was born, so I was still hanging out with producers, industry folks and "real headz" from all walks of life on a regular basis. I was, basically, in the know and on the scene. GENERAL REAL HEAD CONSENSUS when Moment Of Truth dropped was that this was a great album. The hip hop world has just turned into something else even since 1998, and I think you have a different breed of people who are now the arbiters of what constitutes good, classic or "tepid" hip hop music. Moment Of Truth is not perfect- almost no record is. But it's sure as hell survived the test of time for me. I don't care what anybody says- that record is some of Primo's best and most creative work. I think anybody who truly understands the art of flipping and chopping a record to create an original composition is gonna agree with that sentiment. But, of course, certain individuals are not gonna get it- as always, only

    That may be true, but even back then when I was at the height of my "real head-ed-ness", I would have told you and your old head industry friends that you were tripping.



    I mean I played that album a lot. But it never held a candle to the previous three.

    I was running records back and forth between Fat Beats, Sandbox, Footwork, Beat Street, various recording studios, onestops, and so on and I don't recall anyone talking as glowingly as you are now. I mean, nobody was saying it was wack... but classic?? Plaese to be serious. At The Mall? She Knowz What She Wantz? Duds man. And classic records don't have big ass duds.


  • deejdeej 5,124 Posts
    I didn't realize that "half-way competent" is now the new standard for "classic."

    Man, it's been that way for years. At this point, the calculus is more like "I like this album" = "classic album."

    The real secret is that its always been this way, but yr more trusting of old people when they can get their opinions published in a magazine.
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