Kick-ass Production and Radical Politics: Top 5

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  • faux_rillzfaux_rillz 14,343 Posts
    I find Brand Nubian, Lakim Shabazz, and yes Gang Starr to be a lot more radically political than the kind of pseudo-intellectual post-collegiate pablum found on the Digable record... but that's just me...

    You don't find talk of "swoon units" and "creamy spys" to be radical?

  • Jonny_PaycheckJonny_Paycheck 17,825 Posts
    I find Brand Nubian, Lakim Shabazz, and yes Gang Starr to be a lot more radically political than the kind of pseudo-intellectual post-collegiate pablum found on the Digable record... but that's just me...

    You don't find talk of "swoon units" and "creamy spys" to be radical?

    No, but I gotta give props to anyone who drops a "who's who" list of African/African American revolutionaries over creamy beats...


  • So are you saying no 5% whatsoever? I find Brand Nubian, Lakim Shabazz, and yes Gang Starr to be a lot more radically political than the kind of pseudo-intellectual post-collegiate pablum found on the Digable record... but that's just me...

    dude, not even endorsing the digable for its lyrics but i'd take pseudo-intellectual over a bunch of numerology and "knowledge" any day. and weren't digable 5 percenters?

  • Jonny_PaycheckJonny_Paycheck 17,825 Posts

    So are you saying no 5% whatsoever? I find Brand Nubian, Lakim Shabazz, and yes Gang Starr to be a lot more radically political than the kind of pseudo-intellectual post-collegiate pablum found on the Digable record... but that's just me...

    dude, not even endorsing the digable for its lyrics but i'd take pseudo-intellectual over a bunch of numerology and "knowledge" any day. and weren't digable 5 percenters?

    HAHAHAHAHA....no. They kicked some 5% stuff here and there but they were not actual God Body.

    So are you saying Digable is better than Brand Nubian, Lakim Shabazz, or Gang Starr?

    Are you at all familiar with 5% ideology?

  • DocMcCoyDocMcCoy "Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,917 Posts
    I don't get the Paris hate...at least not for his first LP.

    Have you listened to it recently? I liked it a lot around the time it came out. I listened to it again a year or two ago and was shocked at how derivative he was as an MC and how bad some of the beats were, even for the time.

    Not within the past month...but the LP is pulled out in a stack of records I was planning to do a sped-up set with...so as recently as a few months ago I was revisiting it with glee.

    As I remember it, "This Is a Test", "The Hate That Hate Made," and "The Devil Made Me Do It" are all top-notch.

    Although my favorite track by him may be "By Night" off of the "Scarface Groove" 12". Then there's "Lights Camera Revolution" off of the "Hate That Hate Made" 12" which is also good.

    But you're talking to someone who got a considerable amount of burn out of his most recent "Sonic Jihad" LP.

    "Break The Grip Of Shame" was my shit back in 1990. That was back when UK DJs would still spin hardcore hip-hop at acid-house parties. I can't even imagine the equivalent concept now.

  • JRootJRoot 861 Posts
    Strut:
    Here is the revised top five (in no meaningful order):
    1.
    2.
    3.
    4.
    5.

    Even though my man's already got it, I???ve left the Digable Planets record there to spite the haters.
    ???Oh, like I ever had rights??????
    ???Do you wish to give up the right to remain silent????
    ???Hell, yeah.???.



    As for the five percenters, he???s already got the Brand Nubian records (purchased at a deep discount from Jinx74, complete with snaggly teeth marks). And I repeat:
    for the record, I don???t believe any of Gang Starr???s records to contain radical politics.
    If you disagree, feel free to develop an argument to the contrary that rests on more than an assertion. Otherwise, just take two and pass so the blunt will last...


    The striking thing about this list is that other than the Dead Prez record, all of these albums were produced and released before 1995, and none of these artists (save Dead Prez) continue to make meaningful political records.


    Where are the contemporary releases that combine leftist/nationalist politics with buttery beats?

  • Jonny_PaycheckJonny_Paycheck 17,825 Posts
    And I repeat:
    for the record, I don???t believe any of Gang Starr???s records to contain radical politics.
    If you disagree, feel free to develop an argument to the contrary that rests on more than an assertion. Otherwise, just take two and pass so the blunt will last...


    I see you're drawing a line between radical politics and cultural awareness...

  • HarveyCanalHarveyCanal "a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts

    Where are the contemporary releases that combine leftist/nationalist politics with buttery beats?

    I don't like the phrases "leftist/nationalist politics" nor "buttery beats" at all, but I already done posted 2 albums from the past calendar year that needs to be peeped on the protest tip.

  • faux_rillzfaux_rillz 14,343 Posts

    The striking thing about this list is that other than the Dead Prez record, all of these albums were produced and released before 1995, and none of these artists (save Dead Prez) continue to make meaningful political records.


    Where are the contemporary releases that combine leftist/nationalist politics with buttery beats?

    The Coup do, or so I'm told... I haven't heard any of their post-Wild Pitch releases.

  • Jonny_PaycheckJonny_Paycheck 17,825 Posts

    The striking thing about this list is that other than the Dead Prez record, all of these albums were produced and released before 1995, and none of these artists (save Dead Prez) continue to make meaningful political records.


    Where are the contemporary releases that combine leftist/nationalist politics with buttery beats?

    The Coup do, or so I'm told... I haven't heard any of their post-Wild Pitch releases.

    They're worth seeking out.

  • m_dejeanm_dejean Quadratisch. Praktisch. Gut. 2,946 Posts
    "Break The Grip Of Shame" was my shit back in 1990.

    I used to love that track when it came out. Still got the 12" lying around somewhere.

    I remember first time I saw the video, which featured a lot of Black Panther footage and raised-fist typa shots. I was taping it on the VCR in the livingroom, and my mother came in and was real worried: "why are you watching and listening to this destructive music, these people are promoting negativity and violence, yadayada".

    She grew up in that era and she has always been more of the MLK school, plus I think she had some bad experiences with local Black Panthers growing up in NY in the late 60s, so she gave me a loooong "turn the other cheek - self-defense is an illusion" speech.

  • JRootJRoot 861 Posts

    The striking thing about this list is that other than the Dead Prez record, all of these albums were produced and released before 1995, and none of these artists (save Dead Prez) continue to make meaningful political records.


    Where are the contemporary releases that combine leftist/nationalist politics with buttery beats?

    The Coup do, or so I'm told... I haven't heard any of their post-Wild Pitch releases.

    They're worth seeking out.

    As far as I know, their last release, "Party Music" was slated for September 2001 with some uncanny cover art which had to be changed in light of then-current events. Have they released something since? I agree that Party Music and Steal this Album are worth seeking out and listening to, but I think that the first two records are better.

    HarveyCanal, I noticed your contributions but in light of the petty fight-picking regarding my diction, your recent "burn" of Paris' Sonic Jihad record, the lack of assent from others, and your own disclaimer:
    The production on either of these may not qualify as "kick-ass" to all, but I'm mentioning them anyway.

    I did not regard those suggestions highly. Maybe that was a mistake.

    JRoot

  • DORDOR Two Ron Toe 9,903 Posts
    Hmm.. no PE in a top five? Now you might as well drop



    into the mix. The real reason KRS had probs with dude is cause of the real meaning to his lryics. The Blastmaster thought they were "TOO" rad[/b]ical.



  • Jonny_PaycheckJonny_Paycheck 17,825 Posts
    Duh... J****y you should add "Edutainment" to the mix, that's definitely KRS' most thought-out political statement IMO.

  • faux_rillzfaux_rillz 14,343 Posts

    I did not regard those suggestions highly. Maybe that was a mistake.

    It was no mistake.

    If even Archaic is expressing skepticism about the production, it's gua-ran-teed to be unlistenable.


  • So are you saying Digable is better than Brand Nubian, Lakim Shabazz, or Gang Starr? {/quote]

    No, I don't even really like Digable Planets. I just thought it was interesting that you called them pseudo-intellectual and then talked up 5% (the very definition of pseudo-intellectual ideology).

  • JRootJRoot 861 Posts
    Hmm.. no PE in a top five?

    Go back and read the thread.

    BDP are under consideration to replace DP, although one must disregard Mr. Parker's recent errant conduct in order to continue to enjoy those records.

  • And I repeat:
    for the record, I don???t believe any of Gang Starr???s records to contain radical politics.
    If you disagree, feel free to develop an argument to the contrary that rests on more than an assertion. Otherwise, just take two and pass so the blunt will last...


    While the message is rather muddled and as with most hip hop lyrics, they look pretty damn silly written down on paper, the song "Riot Act" off Gangstarr's final album does contain radical politics. Again, I'm not riding for the quality of the song, just pointing out that Guru has come with some political lyrics in the past.

    [Chorus: Guru]
    Riot act, this is where we really prepare
    Riot act, out here we show no fear
    RIOT ACT, time to protect our communities
    Riot act, real criminals get immunity
    RIOT ACT, eye for an eye - so yo who want it?
    RIOT ACT, rushin all you cowards who fronted
    Riot act, let's bring the power to the people
    RIOT ACT, no justice then we gotta come see you

    [Verse One: Guru]
    Just like a thunderous gun clap, you wonder who done that
    Put you under with one rap, me and the brothers have come back
    We'll lash you for tryin that, we know you been lyin cat
    So now you be lyin flat, we'll read you the riot act
    Whassup you little fuck, get your life right
    Cause there's too much goin in the world, and shit ain't quite right
    See you're just addin to the problem
    Young gun, high-strung, ready to trey-eight revolve 'em
    Knot nearly in your waist, you step up in the place
    Catch one off guard, he lookin silly in the face
    But hear they come with the M-16's
    They got teargas, helmets and clubs - knahmean?
    It's martial law in these streets
    It's like Afghanistan man, it's gettin raw in the streets
    Still you demand your rights, I understand your plight
    But do the knowledge if you plan to fight

    [Chorus]

    [Verse Two: Guru]
    So realize what it is to be oppressed and afflicted
    Subjected to sick shit, knowin others live different
    FUCK THAT, the streets about to blow again
    They forgot, so we gotta let 'em know again
    Huh, we'll blast you for tryin that, we know you been lyin cat
    So now you be lyin flat, we'll read you the riot act
    Soldiers, let's show these cowards what's up
    The hood ain't goin for it, let's get ours, that's what's up
    Be sure to keep a balance to your fight
    And do the math, figure how to use your talents in a fight
    Ain't nuttin worse than a rebel without a cause
    Ain't nuttin worse than a people without laws
    200 million square miles under attack
    Reperations for us blacks, hell yeah, they need to come with that
    Who's gonna take the weight, and erase the hate
    All I know is when we come through, better make some space

    [Chorus]

    [Verse Three: Guru]
    A lot of people ain't happy you can tell by their ways
    It's growin tense okay, I can smell it today
    Tenement buildings house the next killers
    While rich diplomats, are purchasin their next villas
    But for the scrilla and power, uhh
    They'll send some killers to their hood, that are iller than ours
    Still niggaz settle beef, with the metal piece
    And every block stays hot, like the devil's feet
    Incarceration of the mind, police brutality and poverty
    These are realities of mankind
    And we can't win nigga, if we keep shuckin and jivin
    In a minute, they gon' have us duckin and divin
    They got bullets for us {*automatic fire*} yeah, uh-huh
    They got jail cells and graveyards, they the bullies, not us
    We'll blast you for tryin that, we know you been lyin cat
    So now you be lyin flat, cause this is the riot act

    [Chorus]

  • DORDOR Two Ron Toe 9,903 Posts
    Hmm.. no PE in a top five?

    Go back and read the thread.

    BDP are under consideration to replace DP, although one must disregard Mr. Parker's recent errant conduct in order to continue to enjoy those records.

    Solid

  • Jonny_PaycheckJonny_Paycheck 17,825 Posts

    So are you saying Digable is better than Brand Nubian, Lakim Shabazz, or Gang Starr?

    No, I don't even really like Digable Planets. I just thought it was interesting that you called them pseudo-intellectual and then talked up 5% (the very definition of pseudo-intellectual ideology).

    It seems like you don't really understand 5% - it's not pseudo-intellectual; if pseudo-anything it's pseudo-religious but there is a very well-defined set of ideas behind it. What I meant by "pseudo" is, in the case of Digable, basically pulling from any ideology, even conflicting ones, and namedropping to make your record seem like it's more intellectual, more cohesive than it actually is.

  • JRootJRoot 861 Posts
    And I repeat:
    for the record, I don???t believe any of Gang Starr???s records to contain radical politics.
    If you disagree, feel free to develop an argument to the contrary that rests on more than an assertion. Otherwise, just take two and pass so the blunt will last...


    While the message is rather muddled and as with most hip hop lyrics, they look pretty damn silly written down on paper, the song "Riot Act" off Gangstarr's final album does contain radical politics. Again, I'm not riding for the quality of the song, just pointing out that Guru has come with some political lyrics in the past.

    Point well-taken. I must confess to an ignorance of Gang Starr's recorded output after about 1995. Nice to see that Mr. Elam decided to rap about something other than grass and ass.

  • DJ_EnkiDJ_Enki 6,473 Posts
    Is X-Clan not radical enough to qualify?

  • 33thirdcom33thirdcom 2,049 Posts
    My list off the top...

    Public Enemy
    Ice Cube (First 3 solo releases)
    Da Lench Mob (first album)
    Immortal Technique (people are nuts over hm)
    X-Clan
    The Coup
    Brand Nubian
    Kam
    Goodie Mob (Not as overtly political - priobably bordering more on social consciousness)
    Dead Prez
    BDP
    KRS-ONE

  • BsidesBsides 4,244 Posts
    Kanye West?


  • What I meant by "pseudo" is, in the case of 5%, basically pulling from any ideology, even conflicting ones like science and religious scripture, and namedropping to make your belief seem like it's more intellectual, more cohesive than it actually is.

  • Jonny_PaycheckJonny_Paycheck 17,825 Posts

    What I meant by "pseudo" is, in the case of 5%, basically pulling from any ideology, even conflicting ones like science and religious scripture, and namedropping to make your belief seem like it's more intellectual, more cohesive than it actually is.

    This is stupid. you clearly have something against 5%, and comparing an entire system of belief to a rap group is very silly.

  • erewhonerewhon 1,123 Posts
    So I was having a backchannel convo with a palomine about rap records, and he asked me the following question:

    > if i were to get five hip hop albums with kick-ass production and
    > radical politics, i would get what?

    I couldn't think of five that met both criteria (does Paris have "kick-ass production"? don't think so...), but I bet the STRUT can!

    GO.[/b]

    Thanks,
    JRoot

    whaddup jroot! paris has some decent production.

    here's another: Tragedy (Khadafi) - he was part of the marley marl camp. mid 80s afrocentric, anti-govt lyrics, fast rap beats. he's put out plenty since then..

    Recommend his first album to your friend:



    ...avoid the late career Thug Matrix bullschitt.

    ...at the expense of some gems like this:

    "What price are you talking about, sir?"
    Malcolm X: "The price of freedom is death"

    Yo,
    Only one sperm cell survives out of millions
    Hustlers strive, the trades we learn by the buildings
    In Hell's Kitchen - projects burn the children
    Some get locked, lay in a box with no feeling
    On my back staring at the ceiling, through dealing
    Sweat dripping, hands together, my knees kneeling
    Where was God when my pops fell to his death bleeding?
    Was he trapped like Martin in his last cry for freedom?
    And when I die, will my soul ride 'til I see him?
    Never thought that I'd be overseas with Koreans
    Rockin' a vest, pushin' bulletproof Europeans
    In hot wheels - spit shit the crowd could feel
    Spendin' chips on Hilal meals, ripping foul steel
    While snakes come behind me to lace my spine
    Say grace and at the same time, embrace my nine
    We ball like ghetto children in life tournaments
    Lusting for platinum chains and ice ornaments
    I strive for what I live for - cut from an iller cloth
    Plot like Hyman Roth in a loft
    Stack chips before the new millennium curse
    U-N-I-Verse, we true and living heirs to the universe
    Rep' the 41st 'til my heart burst
    Ready to die - 'til we seen Biggie ride in a hearse
    Yo, your comrades moving like wolves in sheep's clothing
    Friends are foes - hanging niggas 'cause they holding

    [chorus]
    If you can't hold on, hang on - we can make it
    Whatever they don't give us in this life, we can take it
    Joy and pain - through the sunshine and rain
    As the world turns, life remains the same
    We escaped through the flames in this game we bled
    Pour some liquor on the ground - God bless the dead
    To my niggas still living, yo - hold your head
    To my niggas still living, yo - hold your head

    Yo, yo, yo,
    I blow shots from a drop rover 'til the world's over
    Seeing Jehovah through the eyes of a young soldier
    Black Moses - literature in pure dosage
    From a landscape of Kuwait - Jakes and vultures
    Too many of us lose focus
    Due to the fact that we're all just a bunch of soldiers
    Foul cultures
    Funny how the streets mold us
    Allah told us - in the cages where they hold us, it's much colder
    Hear the pain through my words as I harbor in song
    See, the world's rotten like the veins in my father's arm
    Used to be a follower of Islam - niggas is sheist'
    Study my life - living in these days is trife
    Heaven and Hell, a thin line between paradise
    Rather than lose, some choose to take they own life
    Said a prayer for him, hoping that his soul was blessed
    'Cause my hands couldn't cover all the holes in his chest
    What they do? Turn around and blame me for his death
    I'm like Malcolm X resurrected in a Lex', holding two tecs
    Holograms in the headrest, yo
    Shoulda knew what love is, before he learned what a thug is
    Now we leave the seeds to be raised by their mothers
    I've seen the 'hood raise brothers
    Kill too many of us
    A thin line between the freedom and the foul judges
    In the streets, where them snake niggas hold grudges

  • HarveyCanalHarveyCanal "a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts

    I did not regard those suggestions highly. Maybe that was a mistake.

    It was no mistake.

    If even Archaic is expressing skepticism about the production, it's gua-ran-teed to be unlistenable.

    Unlistenable to faux means I-don't-even-bother-to-listen-to-it-before-I-diss-it.

  • Point well-taken. I must confess to an ignorance of Gang Starr's recorded output after about 1995. Nice to see that Mr. Elam decided to rap about something other than grass and ass.

    Guru dropped some knowledge man, on both sides of 1995. i think he changed up his subject matters more than you're giving him credit for.

    BDP are under consideration to replace DP

    this sounds like a no brainer. for the subject of this thread, to have DP ahead of BDP is the definition of

  • BDP are under consideration to replace DP

    this sounds like a no brainer. for the subject of this thread, to have DP ahead of BDP is the definition of
    Perhaps in the production qualification. As far as the "radical politics" go, and if we're trying to stay current, DP must stay in the mix. If we're talking "radical" for '89, maybe not.

    I also think the production on Revolutionary But Gangsta is very good.
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