There are two issues in this thread, both of which a lot of uninformed people are opining on. I'm getting ready to drop the f-bomb.
1) Some non US folks saying how this or that is gonna hit the states next. I'm from the UK and I've been hearing this for a decade. Give it a rest. Not gonna happen, unless you count the Vicemag demographic.
2) Whether or not the Bronx thing is legitimate. It isn't, on a number of levels. That's all I'll say on the matter.
Please continue to discuss UK rappers, it's interesting. Please step off feeling the need to educate the US about the 4 elements because you get MTV piped into your suburban homes. Thanks.
Please continue to discuss UK rappers [and the jealousy that they inspire amongst American rap fans], it's interesting. Please step off feeling the need to educate the US about the 4 elements because you get MTV piped into your suburban homes. Thanks.
I actually like a lot of the music that comes out of the UK. Especially the beat stuff, as long as there is no rapping. Like Boca 45... I dig that dude, except for the songs where there is somebody rapping. And DJ Format too. and Pitch Sounds. All of that is good shit. I think brits do instrumental/DJ/party track shit the best...
All that "Heavy Bronx" shit though... I remember ads and interviews and shit from that old big daddy magazine and those dudes were taking that shit dead serious. It was SO corny. It still is. Just as corny as when Dana Dane had a fake british accent.
Personally, I blame overseas distributors of Wild Style.
i very much doubt any uk rapper will make it big in the states..but i`m sure a mongolian rapper won`t either..
loving hip hop doesn`t mean you have to love EVERY part of it or EVERY artist..hip hop is represented all over the world and in all different languages.
loving hip hop doesn`t mean you have to love EVERY part of it or EVERY artist..hip hop is represented all over the world and in all different languages.
why knock others hustle??
I ask this question whenever the keep-it-realers overseas start trashing current American hip-hop....
I thought I was finished with this thread, but apparantly i wasn't, so here goes:
Regarding the Illmatic/Spaz the world comparison - was that a well thought out analogy I would have written in an article or something? No, it was something I blurted out, spur of the moment. Unjustified? Probably. Am I a jackass? Most likely. I do love that album though.
The Beatles were nerdy english dudes who dug up every import RnB record they could find and copied it. Did poor covers of the songs, sometimes. Why the fuck would you care about their music, they were obviously ripping off black american performers? Some would say they evolved from being mere copycats to expressing themselves with a combination of foreign influences and their own personalities and culture. But maybe I'm way off here.
Keb Darge complained in an interview about his meeting with the RZA - apparantly dude had talked a lot about Kung Fu but didn't seem to know all that much about it when Keb questioned him. Basically, the Wu Tang dudes are a bit disconnected from reality it would seem - the call their hood Shaolin (have they been there?) and talk Kung Fu styles without knowing them. The Wu dudes are into an idealised myth about ancient China - it probably sucked being a Shaolin monk, getting up early and training non stop. But that's what artists do - they create worlds that may or may not be truthful. This is not My Defense of the Bronx Lingo - I don't really care to be honest. But if it was outlawed to idealise stuff you haven't necessarily experienced first hand, a whole bunch of artists would be fucking guilty.
Also, saying "I'll never be exposed to UK rap" is an odd comment on a board where everybody seems to drive cross-country, hungry and dirty, trying to uncover some privatepressed bloodshitter rare. If you're curious about it seek it out. If you're not, leave it alone.
I'd like to thank the academy, George Clooney, and the few, if any, who managed to get through this rambling mess of a post.
I agree with the notion expressed earlier that grime is a much more interesting style than straight up UK "hiphop". It has that originality and youthful energy of a vital and progressive music scene, that I would think hiphop once upon a time had in the Bronx. In that aspect it's very much like the Hyphy stuff in the Bay right now.
RZA seems to study everything though - Medicine, Healing, Philosophy, Religion... Wonder how he finds time to make beats? Anyway, it's from an interview I read, it might be wrong. Keb Darge is a former martial arts champion though, I believe.
Don't know anything about the Keb-RZA convo, but I do know that RZA studies (studied?) seriously for some time.
Yeah, I guess Keb was referring to RZA with that "compilation cunt" that has been so nicely avatarized from the interview that was posted here a while ago. If you feel like sitting through three highly entertaining hours of Scottish dialect, I suggest you check it out, Johnny.
Don't know anything about the Keb-RZA convo, but I do know that RZA studies (studied?) seriously for some time.
Keb had got together with RZA for the "Kings of Funk" comp they put out on BBE. From what Keb said, it sounds like RZA was a piss-poor student. Maybe in favour of the next joint he was reaching for?
Don't know anything about the Keb-RZA convo, but I do know that RZA studies (studied?) seriously for some time.
Yeah, I guess Keb was referring to RZA with that "compilation cunt" that has been so nicely avatarized from the interview that was posted here a while ago. If you feel like sitting through three highly entertaining hours of Scottish dialect, I suggest you check it out, Johnny.
Yeah I have checked it out although I haven't gotten through the whole thing. About halfway through part 2 I stopped and still have the files for when I've got some more free time.
I imagine that to a martial arts champion RZA probably looked pretty green. But I wouldn't say he's just biting foreign culture, he does or did make an attempt to study it seriously.
I wouldn't either, that was sort of my point (however fuzzy). Very few are Just Biting Foreign Culture- their own culture and lives get in the way. Francis talked about african funk - how many african funk tracks would you mistakenly assume was american? And being influenced by other cultures and stuff like that is one of the major differences between the Wu-Tang Clan and the next boring group that never has an impact on anyone except their friends and the people in their neighbourhood.
Also, saying "I'll never be exposed to UK rap" is an odd comment on a board where everybody seems to drive cross-country, hungry and dirty, trying to uncover some privatepressed bloodshitter rare. If you're curious about it seek it out. If you don't, leave it alone.
This seems to be directed at me: as my friends will bitterly note I won't even drive 3 hours to see a show... and I probably only leave my city to look for records once every year or two...
And the only artists I've commented on in this thread were the handful that I've heard
As I noted, there is a fairly limitless amount of underground American rap that I already know I like that I can dig into for probably the rest of my life... so unless someone hands me a CDR I will remain unaware of this stuff, and therefore I HAVE left it alone
I don't think anyone is saying that RZA hasn't studied shit. But he still uses a foreign culture that he is not part of to describe his own experience in America, dubbed portions of Shaw Bros movies etc. I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with it, but it's not really that different from what the P Brothers are doing with the Bronz thing. Am I wrong?
>>>I don't think anyone is saying that RZA hasn't studied shit. But he still uses a foreign culture that he is not part of to describe his own experience in America, dubbed portions of Shaw Bros movies etc. I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with it, but it's not really that different from what the P Brothers are doing with the Bronz thing. Am I wrong?
Yes you are.
If the RZA was biting the Shaw Bros and making shitty 'hood martial arts films, then he would be a biter. If the RZA grew up watching Shaw Bros movies on the cheap, then incorporated some of the mythology/language/sounds into his music, then he's not a biter. He's a musician who accepts a wide, at times non-musical array of influences. If RZA fought Keb Darge, I'm guessing Keb would pummel him silly.
I like the P Brothers. the Cappo album had its moments (as did Illmatic). that one Hijack single is cool, even if it sounds way too familiar to me. Sway is weird, which I appreciate.
But it seems that most UK "hip-hop" dudes are way too self-conscious about their sound/swagger in relation to the U.S. (Not saying this is the case with Ivory and Paul, since they circle their own orbit, in their own galaxy, where gravity is determined by your proximity to Ced-Gee.) But the better argument as far as this "What's wrong with using hip-hop as a point of departure..."/"hey look at fela"/"isn't this just a new thing, like the Beatles" issue goes is something like Grime, or Roots Manuva. Dizzee, Roll Deep, etc don't sound a thing like USA rap, and that's why Americans fetishize them. They took a template and skewed it.
But the better argument as far as this "What's wrong with using hip-hop as a point of departure..."/"hey look at fela"/"isn't this just a new thing, like the Beatles" issue goes is something like Grime, or Roots Manuva. Dizzee, Roll Deep, etc don't sound a thing like USA rap
I definitely agree with this. Speaking for myself, I was mostly talking about the "UK rap has always and will always suck, no need to bother with it" approach in general. This may not have been what people in this post were trying to say earlier, but the attitude does exist.
Comments
1) Some non US folks saying how this or that is gonna hit the states next. I'm from the UK and I've been hearing this for a decade. Give it a rest. Not gonna happen, unless you count the Vicemag demographic.
2) Whether or not the Bronx thing is legitimate. It isn't, on a number of levels. That's all I'll say on the matter.
Please continue to discuss UK rappers, it's interesting. Please step off feeling the need to educate the US about the 4 elements because you get MTV piped into your suburban homes. Thanks.
All that "Heavy Bronx" shit though... I remember ads and interviews and shit from that old big daddy magazine and those dudes were taking that shit dead serious. It was SO corny. It still is. Just as corny as when Dana Dane had a fake british accent.
Personally, I blame overseas distributors of Wild Style.
but it doesn't matter, cuz like i said... it seems highly unlikely i'll ever be exposed to it.
Curb your jealousy.
Wonder if he???ll pop up anytime soon.
loving hip hop doesn`t mean you have to love EVERY part of it or EVERY artist..hip hop is represented all over the world and in all different languages.
why knock others hustle??
I ask this question whenever the keep-it-realers overseas start trashing current American hip-hop....
Regarding the Illmatic/Spaz the world comparison - was that a well thought out analogy I would have written in an article or something? No, it was something I blurted out, spur of the moment. Unjustified? Probably. Am I a jackass? Most likely. I do love that album though.
The Beatles were nerdy english dudes who dug up every import RnB record they could find and copied it. Did poor covers of the songs, sometimes. Why the fuck would you care about their music, they were obviously ripping off black american performers? Some would say they evolved from being mere copycats to expressing themselves with a combination of foreign influences and their own personalities and culture. But maybe I'm way off here.
Keb Darge complained in an interview about his meeting with the RZA - apparantly dude had talked a lot about Kung Fu but didn't seem to know all that much about it when Keb questioned him. Basically, the Wu Tang dudes are a bit disconnected from reality it would seem - the call their hood Shaolin (have they been there?) and talk Kung Fu styles without knowing them. The Wu dudes are into an idealised myth about ancient China - it probably sucked being a Shaolin monk, getting up early and training non stop. But that's what artists do - they create worlds that may or may not be truthful. This is not My Defense of the Bronx Lingo - I don't really care to be honest. But if it was outlawed to idealise stuff you haven't necessarily experienced first hand, a whole bunch of artists would be fucking guilty.
Also, saying "I'll never be exposed to UK rap" is an odd comment on a board where everybody seems to drive cross-country, hungry and dirty, trying to uncover some privatepressed bloodshitter rare. If you're curious about it seek it out. If you're not, leave it alone.
I'd like to thank the academy, George Clooney, and the few, if any, who managed to get through this rambling mess of a post.
Yeah, I guess Keb was referring to RZA with that "compilation cunt" that has been so nicely avatarized from the interview that was posted here a while ago. If you feel like sitting through three highly entertaining hours of Scottish dialect, I suggest you check it out, Johnny.
Keb had got together with RZA for the "Kings of Funk" comp they put out on BBE. From what Keb said, it sounds like RZA was a piss-poor student. Maybe
Yeah I have checked it out although I haven't gotten through the whole thing. About halfway through part 2 I stopped and still have the files for when I've got some more free time.
I imagine that to a martial arts champion RZA probably looked pretty green. But I wouldn't say he's just biting foreign culture, he does or did make an attempt to study it seriously.
I wouldn't either, that was sort of my point (however fuzzy). Very few are Just Biting Foreign Culture- their own culture and lives get in the way. Francis talked about african funk - how many african funk tracks would you mistakenly assume was american? And being influenced by other cultures and stuff like that is one of the major differences between the Wu-Tang Clan and the next boring group that never has an impact on anyone except their friends and the people in their neighbourhood.
This seems to be directed at me: as my friends will bitterly note I won't even drive 3 hours to see a show... and I probably only leave my city to look for records once every year or two...
And the only artists I've commented on in this thread were the handful that I've heard
As I noted, there is a fairly limitless amount of underground American rap that I already know I like that I can dig into for probably the rest of my life... so unless someone hands me a CDR I will remain unaware of this stuff, and therefore I HAVE left it alone
RZA used something completely unrelated to hip hop[/b] to form a metaphor.
Yes you are.
If the RZA was biting the Shaw Bros and making shitty 'hood martial arts films, then he would be a biter.
If the RZA grew up watching Shaw Bros movies on the cheap, then incorporated some of the mythology/language/sounds into his music, then he's not a biter. He's a musician who accepts a wide, at times non-musical array of influences.
If RZA fought Keb Darge, I'm guessing Keb would pummel him silly.
I like the P Brothers. the Cappo album had its moments (as did Illmatic). that one Hijack single is cool, even if it sounds way too familiar to me. Sway is weird, which I appreciate.
But it seems that most UK "hip-hop" dudes are way too self-conscious about their sound/swagger in relation to the U.S. (Not saying this is the case with Ivory and Paul, since they circle their own orbit, in their own galaxy, where gravity is determined by your proximity to Ced-Gee.) But the better argument as far as this "What's wrong with using hip-hop as a point of departure..."/"hey look at fela"/"isn't this just a new thing, like the Beatles" issue goes is something like Grime, or Roots Manuva. Dizzee, Roll Deep, etc don't sound a thing like USA rap, and that's why Americans fetishize them. They took a template and skewed it.
I definitely agree with this. Speaking for myself, I was mostly talking about the "UK rap has always and will always suck, no need to bother with it" approach in general. This may not have been what people in this post were trying to say earlier, but the attitude does exist.
This was funny
"If RZA fought Keb Darge, I'm guessing Keb would pummel him silly."